New Trailer for "Red Tails" Movie
01-30-2012, 03:25 PM
#102
My Feedback: (101)
RE: New Trailer for
for those of you who are interested
https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/538128438
https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/230264854
'Red Tails' has been a huge hit at the box office, and thousands of Americans have now learned about a part of history that they quite possibly had never heard before. But one question just seems to keep coming up time and time again.
How accurate was George Lucas' version of the Tuskegee Airmen portrayed in the film?
Well, we wanted to give you, one of our dearest supporters, an insider exclusive to find out just that. That's why we've arranged the opportunity for you to register for our FREE live webinar with two of the real heroes behind the legend of the Red Tail pilots.
Please join us this Wednesday, February 1st at 7pm CST or Saturday, February 4th at 2pm CST to hear Col. Charles McGee and Lt. Col. Harold Brown's take on the new 'Red Tails' film. At the end, join the conversation and ask them questions yourself about their personal struggles with war, military life and segregation in the 1940s.
Invite your friends to join in on this unique opportunity to engage in a conversation with true American heroes so that they too, can begin to see why their story, their legacy, must live.
All you need is a telephone to listen in, though you will need the appropriate computer capabilities if you want to type in questions. Don't miss out! We hope to see you all there!
Bradford Lang
CAF Red Tail Squadron Leader &
Pilot of the P-51C Mustang
P.S. Don't forget to make sure you mark down the correct time zone time in your calendar when you sign up! We'd hate to accidentally miss you!
https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/538128438
https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/230264854
'Red Tails' has been a huge hit at the box office, and thousands of Americans have now learned about a part of history that they quite possibly had never heard before. But one question just seems to keep coming up time and time again.
How accurate was George Lucas' version of the Tuskegee Airmen portrayed in the film?
Well, we wanted to give you, one of our dearest supporters, an insider exclusive to find out just that. That's why we've arranged the opportunity for you to register for our FREE live webinar with two of the real heroes behind the legend of the Red Tail pilots.
Please join us this Wednesday, February 1st at 7pm CST or Saturday, February 4th at 2pm CST to hear Col. Charles McGee and Lt. Col. Harold Brown's take on the new 'Red Tails' film. At the end, join the conversation and ask them questions yourself about their personal struggles with war, military life and segregation in the 1940s.
Invite your friends to join in on this unique opportunity to engage in a conversation with true American heroes so that they too, can begin to see why their story, their legacy, must live.
All you need is a telephone to listen in, though you will need the appropriate computer capabilities if you want to type in questions. Don't miss out! We hope to see you all there!
Bradford Lang
CAF Red Tail Squadron Leader &
Pilot of the P-51C Mustang
P.S. Don't forget to make sure you mark down the correct time zone time in your calendar when you sign up! We'd hate to accidentally miss you!
01-30-2012, 04:19 PM
#103
RE: New Trailer for
Subject: Red Tail Facts (Tuskegee Airmen WWII Facts)
To:
The George Lucas film, "Red Tails", about the Tuskegee airmen, will be released in January. This might be a good time to revisit the
facts as stated a few years ago.
From: Bob Powell
Date: July 3, 2008
This letter was not written for publication, but to enlighten you and you and your staff about some of the errors and misleading
information you continue to publish, Perhaps it should be published to set your readers straight. As a WWII Historian and former 8th AF fighter pilot flying 87 missions over Europe during WWII, I am dedicated to factual reporting about the air war in Europe and aviation in general, and I take issue with the media (and not with just AJC) continuing to publish untrue and/or misleading statements about the Tuskegee Airmen (T/A).
Although I have great respect for the pilots and achievements of this WWII Fighter Group, I do not appreciate the continuing repetition of myths and untruths about their military record, the latest example in the obit on Lt. Col Charles Dryden in today's paper, repeating the same errors which appeared in his obit story a few days ago.
For more than 60 years the myth that they "never lost a bomber they were escorting to an enemy fighter", was their primary claim to fame! Then, several months ago, their Historian, William E. Holten, announced that his research proved that this was not true, that they
had, indeed, lost some 25 bombers to enemy fighters. This myth still gets published occasionally, but far less frequently since he made
this disclosure, thank goodness. Lies told often enough tend to bemome truths in the minds of many. However, it now seems to have
been replaced by another false claim, i.e. that the Tuskegee Airmen flew more than 15,000 combat missions. ALSO NOT TRUE!
Their own official records indicate that the T/A only flew 311missions. Their so-called 15,000 "missions" were actually 15,000 "sorties.". Apparently, none of your reporters know the difference between a "mission" and a "sortie," so let me define these for you
and them. Combat Mission is an assigned flight to accomplish a military objective. This can be flown by one pilot or a squadron or
group of pilots flying together. It is recorded as one mission. Combat Sortie. When, for example, 48 or 64 pilots fly together on a
combat mission it is recorded as 48 or 64 combat sorties.
The T/A did not fly 15,000+ combat missions - as stated in your articles about the demise of Col. Charles Dryden. They flew 15,000+
"sorties". To have flown that many "missions" during the time they were in combat in the MTO, they would have had to fly about 25
missions a day everyday they were in combat. Do the math. That's one mission every hour, everyday they were in combat. Impossible! Weather alone would have prevented this, not to mention the problem of keeping all of their aircraft flyable everyday over that period of time. FACT: Their official records indicate they flew only 311 missions, a far cry from 15,000 claimed. Please advise your reporters of the difference between a mission and a sortie so that another T/A myth is not appearing in every mention this Fighter group.
The Dryden story also stated that the 99th Squadron of the T/A was "the most successful squadron in American history." NOT SO! It would be more correct to say they have been the most publicized squadron in American history, however, thanks to a fully-paid public relations staff in Washington, D.C., the only such office of any military unit other than the U.S. Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard..
Although I do not have complete combat statistics on all the fighter groups flying out of Africa and Italy (the MTO), I do have the stats
on all of the 16 fighter groups flying in the Eighth Air Force over western Europe. And, when these records are compared, the Tuskegee
Airmen rank at the bottom of the list despite the fact that they had four squadrons to only three for the 8th AF groups. FYI, and one of the reasons the T/A exploit their 15,000+ sorties (which they call missions) is that on a normal mission they would put up 64 fighters
compared to only 48 for the 8th AF groups. And, since they did mostly ground support missions rather than bomber escort missions, the
average length of their missions was about half that of the time in the air flown by the 8thAF fighters. Re the above mentioned stats, I
would be delighted to provide these for your information if requested.
Another gross error in your first story on Colonel Dryden is that the implication that he was, individually, awarded the Congressional Gold Medal recently. ALSO NOT TRUE. Through the efforts of the New York Senator, this medal was awarded to the Tuskegee Airmen, authorizing all Tuskegee Airman to receive this award. It was not awarded for individual achievements, as implied, but for the role played by the T/A in breaking the color ban for pilots, a civil rights accomplishment, not for their military achievements.
Had this award been given for their military achievements alone, it should also have been awarded to each and every other fighter group
in WWII whose records exceeded those of the Tuskegee Airmen. In my opinion, this was a "political award" instead of a military award. No other bomber or fighter units have been awarded this Medal, only Unit Citations. These are facts. Check them out, and here's to more factual reporting and a better AJC.
Most sincerely,
Robert H. Powell, Jr.
Author/Editor/Historian/Pilot 352nd Fighter Group
1545 Rainier Falls Dr
Atlanta, GA 30329
404-636-3747
To:
The George Lucas film, "Red Tails", about the Tuskegee airmen, will be released in January. This might be a good time to revisit the
facts as stated a few years ago.
From: Bob Powell
Date: July 3, 2008
This letter was not written for publication, but to enlighten you and you and your staff about some of the errors and misleading
information you continue to publish, Perhaps it should be published to set your readers straight. As a WWII Historian and former 8th AF fighter pilot flying 87 missions over Europe during WWII, I am dedicated to factual reporting about the air war in Europe and aviation in general, and I take issue with the media (and not with just AJC) continuing to publish untrue and/or misleading statements about the Tuskegee Airmen (T/A).
Although I have great respect for the pilots and achievements of this WWII Fighter Group, I do not appreciate the continuing repetition of myths and untruths about their military record, the latest example in the obit on Lt. Col Charles Dryden in today's paper, repeating the same errors which appeared in his obit story a few days ago.
For more than 60 years the myth that they "never lost a bomber they were escorting to an enemy fighter", was their primary claim to fame! Then, several months ago, their Historian, William E. Holten, announced that his research proved that this was not true, that they
had, indeed, lost some 25 bombers to enemy fighters. This myth still gets published occasionally, but far less frequently since he made
this disclosure, thank goodness. Lies told often enough tend to bemome truths in the minds of many. However, it now seems to have
been replaced by another false claim, i.e. that the Tuskegee Airmen flew more than 15,000 combat missions. ALSO NOT TRUE!
Their own official records indicate that the T/A only flew 311missions. Their so-called 15,000 "missions" were actually 15,000 "sorties.". Apparently, none of your reporters know the difference between a "mission" and a "sortie," so let me define these for you
and them. Combat Mission is an assigned flight to accomplish a military objective. This can be flown by one pilot or a squadron or
group of pilots flying together. It is recorded as one mission. Combat Sortie. When, for example, 48 or 64 pilots fly together on a
combat mission it is recorded as 48 or 64 combat sorties.
The T/A did not fly 15,000+ combat missions - as stated in your articles about the demise of Col. Charles Dryden. They flew 15,000+
"sorties". To have flown that many "missions" during the time they were in combat in the MTO, they would have had to fly about 25
missions a day everyday they were in combat. Do the math. That's one mission every hour, everyday they were in combat. Impossible! Weather alone would have prevented this, not to mention the problem of keeping all of their aircraft flyable everyday over that period of time. FACT: Their official records indicate they flew only 311 missions, a far cry from 15,000 claimed. Please advise your reporters of the difference between a mission and a sortie so that another T/A myth is not appearing in every mention this Fighter group.
The Dryden story also stated that the 99th Squadron of the T/A was "the most successful squadron in American history." NOT SO! It would be more correct to say they have been the most publicized squadron in American history, however, thanks to a fully-paid public relations staff in Washington, D.C., the only such office of any military unit other than the U.S. Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard..
Although I do not have complete combat statistics on all the fighter groups flying out of Africa and Italy (the MTO), I do have the stats
on all of the 16 fighter groups flying in the Eighth Air Force over western Europe. And, when these records are compared, the Tuskegee
Airmen rank at the bottom of the list despite the fact that they had four squadrons to only three for the 8th AF groups. FYI, and one of the reasons the T/A exploit their 15,000+ sorties (which they call missions) is that on a normal mission they would put up 64 fighters
compared to only 48 for the 8th AF groups. And, since they did mostly ground support missions rather than bomber escort missions, the
average length of their missions was about half that of the time in the air flown by the 8thAF fighters. Re the above mentioned stats, I
would be delighted to provide these for your information if requested.
Another gross error in your first story on Colonel Dryden is that the implication that he was, individually, awarded the Congressional Gold Medal recently. ALSO NOT TRUE. Through the efforts of the New York Senator, this medal was awarded to the Tuskegee Airmen, authorizing all Tuskegee Airman to receive this award. It was not awarded for individual achievements, as implied, but for the role played by the T/A in breaking the color ban for pilots, a civil rights accomplishment, not for their military achievements.
Had this award been given for their military achievements alone, it should also have been awarded to each and every other fighter group
in WWII whose records exceeded those of the Tuskegee Airmen. In my opinion, this was a "political award" instead of a military award. No other bomber or fighter units have been awarded this Medal, only Unit Citations. These are facts. Check them out, and here's to more factual reporting and a better AJC.
Most sincerely,
Robert H. Powell, Jr.
Author/Editor/Historian/Pilot 352nd Fighter Group
1545 Rainier Falls Dr
Atlanta, GA 30329
404-636-3747
01-30-2012, 05:30 PM
#104
RE: New Trailer for
ORIGINAL: flycatch
You came across very bitter but the poster you critized did make some valid points about the state of the Deutchen Luftwaffen. You also mentioned demographics and who the movie is intended to attract could you please explain your position.
You came across very bitter but the poster you critized did make some valid points about the state of the Deutchen Luftwaffen. You also mentioned demographics and who the movie is intended to attract could you please explain your position.
Flycatch,
I'm not too concerned if I came across as 'bitter', although I'm not terribly surprised you'd characterize it that way. The poster's 'points' are just that...and not very realistic portrayals of the state of affairs for the crews of the bombers in question. If someone seems irritated about some 'brothers' in 'yet another movie about racism', and it's somehow ME who's bitter....
There is a detectable trend these days to downplay or downright rewrite the histories and accomplishments of certain people, while whitewashing and sanitizing the sins of others. I get it. It doesn't mean that this trend is going to be palatable to people who have more than a cable news (or middle school) understanding of history. If some guy wants to try to minimize the TA's by saying they were only up against enlisted pilots in dilapidated aircraft, he might be safe doing it on RCU...but not from all of the immutable facts of history.
And yes, I could explain the demographics comment.
01-30-2012, 08:20 PM
#106
RE: New Trailer for
Is history accurate in the portrayal of the Tuskegee Airman? Probably not, but there are many stories from all the wars fought and yet to be fought that are, or will be, embellished. The one thing that is not false is they all served and many died or were maimed, just like all the rest. Their sacrifices were no greater than any other serving our country during the war. The difference however, is they did it for a country that for the most part treated them as second class citizens at best. They fought for a country that held little regard for them and felt that they were good enough for the menial jobs or just cannon fodder, but not for something as difficult and important as aviation. The reasons they served were as varied as anyone elses, a paycheck, believed in the cause, hopes for a better life for their families, etc... They had all the same motivations to serve, but they had motivation to not serve that most other Americans did not have, why fight for a country that cares so little for them. They deserve recognition not just for their service, but also for the fact that they served their country in spite of the way their country treated them.
It may not be 100% accurate, but how entertaining would any war film be if it was reduced to a bunch of strictly factual accounts.
It may not be 100% accurate, but how entertaining would any war film be if it was reduced to a bunch of strictly factual accounts.
01-31-2012, 08:27 AM
#107
RE: New Trailer for
CFI,
Great post. Very good points, too. My problem isn't with getting the history correct, it's with this not-so-subtle trend of historical rewrites going on these days. There are plenty of people who profess themselves as historians who pop up to 'reveal' how people or groups of people have a less significant contribution to society than previously accepted.
I suppose it's possible that the several living TA's I've met and the few I've talked to at length were all in on a conspiracy to lie about their records and accomplishments, but it seems more likely to me that there's a little bit of 'historian' BS involved, too. Some are just plain 'swift-boating' these guys.
Great post. Very good points, too. My problem isn't with getting the history correct, it's with this not-so-subtle trend of historical rewrites going on these days. There are plenty of people who profess themselves as historians who pop up to 'reveal' how people or groups of people have a less significant contribution to society than previously accepted.
I suppose it's possible that the several living TA's I've met and the few I've talked to at length were all in on a conspiracy to lie about their records and accomplishments, but it seems more likely to me that there's a little bit of 'historian' BS involved, too. Some are just plain 'swift-boating' these guys.
01-31-2012, 04:29 PM
#108
RE: New Trailer for
Okay you butt heads and you know who you are. And fromwhat was posted I know. But if you want your questions answered....on the 1st and the 4th of feb there will be a live forum where you can ask your questions to two of the Tuskegee Airmen. go to: www.gotomeeting.com/register/230264854 or www.3gotomeeting.com/register/230264854 Maybe then you can have a forum on the subject.
enjoy
go to www.RedTail.org
01-31-2012, 06:07 PM
#109
RE: New Trailer for
I don't believe it was ever a conspiracy or that the "truth" was intentionally hidden. Most of the initial stories came out of the war through word of mouth and anecdotal evidence. On the other hand every pilot was debriefed at the end of their flight and what they saw, or thought they saw, was recorded and sorted through at a later time. Using each individual debrief they attempted to paint a picture of exactly what happened on that mission. Every observer saw it from a different angle and perspective, so that no two stories are exactly alike. Now all we have are what the intel offices best guess was from all that information from each mission, and maybe a few actual living witnesses that have had 60+ years to mull it over and most likely remember it a little different now. So now when historians go through the reports and interview those that are left they sometimes get a story that is a bit different than what has previously been told. To say that it is more accurite than the original is a bit of a stretch.
