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Bates 106" B-26 Marauder build

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Bates 106" B-26 Marauder build

Old 09-17-2011, 07:43 PM
  #1  
samparfitt
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Default Bates 106" B-26 Marauder build

Planning stage:

I picked up the plans, canopies, cowls, short kit and gear from a buddy of mine.
There are four pages of plans.
There are 5 canopies but only four are needed on the plane: there may be two nose options.
The main gears are unusual in that they kind of scissors straight up instead of rotating.
The plans say it should weight 24 lbs and use G-24's (right!!!!).
I'm guessing more around upper fourties (at least by the time I put all the detail 'stuff' on it!).
The pictures shows (left to right): G-26, G-38, DA-50 and G-62.
The small engines would fit but not enough power.
I'm figuring either the DA-50's or G-62's (as I put in the P-61).
The DA seems to fit the cowl and present fire wall location.

Looks like Dbalsa has a cockpit kit so I'll get that.

This will be my winter project along with, probably, the Ziroli P-40.

I've never built any Bates planes.
From what I've seen, the bottom half of the fuse if first built, face down.
I'll have to find out if there is an instruction booklet.

Any knowledge and experience would be appreciated by posting or emailing me.

thanks.
[email protected]
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:45 PM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: Bates 106" B-26 Marauder build

Planning stage (cont)

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Old 09-18-2011, 05:21 AM
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zipnz1
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Default RE: Bates 106

Cool build sam, one of those planes you dont see very often.
Just my 2 cents, but i would go with the da50. My second choice would be something like a dle30.
At 106" this plane might compare to the smaller ziroli b25 in hardware and weight.

mike
Old 09-18-2011, 06:07 AM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: Bates 106

Mike,
thanks for the input.
Initially, I was thinking my two spare G-38's would pull it, as you said, it's comparable to the 101" B-25 (which uses G-26's).
My doubts 'come in' when I think that I'm glad that I put two G-62's on my P-61.
I'm also, thinking about making it a 112" wing span by either adding a few ribs or moving each rib out an extra quarter inch, or so. I feel that a 112" would give better flying and handling techniques and it would only add an extra 3" to each side and no one would notice the larger wing span on the plane.
My concern is weight as I'll be adding full cockpits, all functioning doors, brakes, panel lines, rivets, etc.
Looking at Bates web site, he has the plane as 35-40 lbs using G-23 to G-38's: a more realistic weight than on the plans.
(noticed that he has a 101" sea fury: that would also be nice to build!)
Old 09-18-2011, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

If I remember right this is the large wing variant of B-26 and with that the rear bombay was not used any more. The one we built we were close to 35 lbs. with 2 G-38's and all the goodies I think.

Enjoy the build.

Darren
Old 09-18-2011, 10:59 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

Here are some photos of my B-26 that Phil Clark built.

Weighs 105 pounds. Zenoah twin 80s for power swinging 24X10 prop.
Futaba 14 MZ radio

1/6 scale at 144 inch wing

Check out the articulating bomb doors

Bates planes fly fantastic

Brian
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Old 09-19-2011, 01:09 AM
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Default RE: Bates 106

From one of your pics it doesn't look like the g62 would fit. If you were able to shoehorn it in it does not look like it would leave much room for a fuel tank before you hit the wheel. The da50 would swing a prop size close to the g62 and a dle30 swings a 18" prop like a g38. You would probably save a little weight with these lighter engines and put some lead way up front of the fuse where it would make the most difference.
Stretching the wing is not a bad idea but I wouldn't add it at the tips it looks like it has a steep cord taper and might make the tip too pointy. Adding to the root or stretching like you thought might be the best bet.

Mike
Old 09-19-2011, 04:26 AM
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Default RE: Bates 106

Darren,
35 lbs would be nice as the G-38's fit inside the cowls (plus they have rear exhaust).
I'm thinking that I don't need as much power as on the P-61 as this is a bomber so no aerobatics will be performed.

=====
Brian,
I read the build thread and saw your flight video.
Very impressive.
I'll have to see if I can make a mechanism that will operate an articulating bomb bay door.
Adding a bomb bay door, it will seem that I will have to re-enforce the fuse area as the wing saddle is directly over the bomb bay door, so the sides are the only structurally sound area.

=============
Mike,
I agree with you on the G-62's: there would be a lot of 'chopping' of the cowl.
I'm partial to Zenoah and DA and, presently, I'm leaning towards the G-38's, although the DA-50 is not that much larger and would give me plenty of extra power.
You're right about making the outer wings longer.
Looking at the plans, it's not as easy as it sounds.
Adding just to the ends of the wing, the outer wings TE would then be out of alignment with the center wing. Moving each rib out a 1/4" (or so) will give me a nice uniform wing.
Those narrow tip wings always concerns me: a plane can snap roll much easier than with the wing on my P-61.: The extra power from the DA-50's would help insure that I can maintain a good flight speed.
Moving each rib out also will make the wing a little wider, as well as longer.

==========
Plans:

The plans call for SIG SH-724 aluminum wing joiners.
I checked out their web site and they still make them:
http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmar..._02SIGSH724_01
Old 09-19-2011, 05:08 AM
  #9  
JeffH
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Default RE: Bates 106

I would go DLE 30s, more power than a G-38 with less weight. I have flown my Dad's NZ B-25 on G-23s at 35 pounds and it was more than enough power for scale, yet fun flying. It did maintain on one engine, and even lived after losing an engine on takeoff. More power would have probably rolled it into the ground before realizing what happened.
Old 09-19-2011, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

I thought it looked strong we had a bomb drop planned in the front bomb bay. If you marry the fuse to the wing center section it should be plenty strong.

And I definitely would go with the 30's over the 38's even if you need to add nose weight.

We use the Sig wing joiners.

Darren
Old 09-21-2011, 12:52 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

Planning stage (cont)

My hollow core building tables are only 80" long so I bought another 36" wide door and cross cut 32", 30" and 18". The 32" is the extension for the large 36" wide table for the wing: the 30" is used to put under the connection to strengthen the area.
The 18" was added to my 18" wide table as the fuse length was several inches past the table's length.

Having no instructions, I'm interpreting what is the best 'plan of attack'.

Looking at the fuse, all formers are cut in half as the fuse is built in halves (top/bottom).
The stringers are all 1/4" square so I'll have to buy a lot of those.
It appears that I just pin some 1/4" square stringers to the fuse plans and build the top half of the fuse by gluing the top of the formers to the stringers.
I checked my table and it is flat so the fuse shouldn't have any 'banana' appearance!
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:53 PM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: Bates 106

Planning stage (cont)

The short kit was laid out on their respective places on the plans.
F-12 stood out as missing: nothing major that can't be made.
Laying out the parts will get me processing a procedure for building as well as if any parts need aircraft ply, re-enforcement, etc.
The wing ribs have tabs on the TE to hold them level but I didn't see any riser for wash out, which I'll be adding if the tabs do not provide it. The flaps and ailerons are built separately from the main wing.
The plans show a U shaped wire connecting the flaps: I'll be putting a servo on each flap.
The elevator servos will probably be located either in the horizontal stab or tail of the fuse.
The normal servo will protrude out the bottom of the stab so, something to think about.
There were a few parts that I haven't figured out where they go, yet.
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Old 09-21-2011, 03:17 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

Construction Manual.

Cool. Jerry just emailed the construction manual.
Old 09-21-2011, 06:24 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

I bought a NIB short kit, plans and the plastics at a local sweep meet this past feb. for this model. So i will definitely be keeping an eye in on this build. Now if i could just get the 1/2 dozen parts missing from the short kit from the person who cut it.
Old 09-21-2011, 10:26 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

Sweet project Sam. Subscribed.[sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Old 09-23-2011, 11:39 AM
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Default RE: Bates 106

Thomas,
So far I was missing F-2 and F-12: I find it easier just to cut new pieces, myself.

============
Fuse:

The 1/4" square balsa 'outline' was pinned/edge glued to the 'top view' plans.
Before gluing the formers F-1 through F-14 to the 'top view' plans, I folding the 'side view' plans at the center line and laid them on the 'top view' plans to insure accuracy. Most of the formers located on the 'side view' plans are back farther than indicated on the 'top view' plans. Since the 'side view' plans are more detailed, I transferred the former locations to the 'top view' plans and glued the formers to the 1/4" square balsa 'outline'. The formers are also accurately cut to the plans so I this should give me a accurate profile of the fuse, without any 'waves' in the stringers between the formers.
I also used the center wing rib to insure F-6 and F-9 are properly spaced for the wing.
Having the formers back per the 'side view' also puts the wing back about a 1/2" so it should help on less ballast needed for balancing the plane.
F-6A and F-9A are the end points of the wing so some 1/16" thick balsa was used as spacers and tack glued to F-6 and F-9, which will make it easy to cut this section out after sheeting.

09-26-11 (addition info added)
Metal squares were used to insure the formers are perpendicular, especially F-6A and F-9A where the wing is seated.
I cut a curf into the 1/4" thick wing saddles so they would bend around the formers.
I epoxied the bottom of the saddle, first to the base, crutch stringer, and, after the epoxy dried, I did the top half.
My sig aluminum wing joiners came in: I should only need one set but bought three for future projects.

Only place I could find bulk straight pins and Bondo glazing putty was at 'walbox' so I stocked up.
I go through pins quickly as I throw them out when glue cakes on the sides.
With a few exceptions, my 'go to' glue is elmers carpenters glue (polyvinyl acetate): cheap and dries 'good enough' in 20 minutes to do 'light work on'.

pictures will be uploaded when the web site fixed their 'internal server error' messages.

09-26-11:
pictures uploaded.
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Old 09-23-2011, 07:22 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106


ORIGINAL: samparfitt

Thomas,
So far I was missing F-2 and F-12: I find it easier just to cut new pieces, myself.

============
Fuse:

The 1/4'' square balsa 'outline' was pinned/edge glued to the 'top view' plans.
Before gluing the formers F-1 through F-14 to the 'top view' plans, I folding the 'side view' plans at the center line and laid them on the 'top view' plans to insure accuracy. Most of the formers located on the 'side view' plans are back farther than indicated on the 'top view' plans. Since the 'side view' plans are more detailed, I transferred the former locations to the 'top view' plans and glued the formers to the 1/4'' square balsa 'outline'. The formers are also accurately cut to the plans so I this should give me a accurate profile of the fuse, without any 'waves' in the stringers between the formers.
I also used the center wing rib to insure F-6 and F-9 are properly spaced for the wing.
Having the formers back per the 'side view' also puts the wing back about a 1/2'' so it should help on less ballast needed for balancing the plane.
F-6A and F-9A are the end points of the wing so some 1/16'' thick balsa was used as spacers and tack glued to F-6 and F-9, which will make it easy to cut this section out after sheeting.
Only place I could find bulk straight pins and Bondo glazing putty was at 'walbox' so I stocked up.
I go through pins quickly as I throw them out when glue cakes on the sides.
With a few exceptions, my 'go to' glue is elmers carpenters glue (polyvinyl acetate): cheap and dries 'good enough' in 20 minutes to do 'light work on'.

pictures will be uploaded when the web site fixed their 'internal server error' messages.

Interesting.. i'm missing those, along with a few nacelle parts, some wing ribs and some horizontal stab ribs
Old 09-23-2011, 07:27 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

If I remember right some areas were hard to put 1/4 X 1/4 so use 2- 1/8 X 1/4 Especially on the nose or was it the nacelles . Its hard to turn the radius of it.

Good luck,

Darren
Old 09-26-2011, 11:46 AM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: Bates 106

Darren,
The back of the fuse has a stringer that gets a sever twist so I just 'sistered' the two stringers together to eliminated the twist, after sanding an angle on one of the stringers to get alignment.

=============
Fuse (cont)

Top half (cont)

The 1/4" thick balsa wing saddle was epoxied to the main stringer crutch.
I also epoxied some 3/8" thick ply to the front/back area to give more solid surface area for the four wing mount ply plates.
Most of the stringers were added.
I use a small contact eye dispenser for apply the carpenters glue.
I then use an acid brush to wipe the excess glue from each joint, which greatly speeds up the drying time as gobs of glue take a long time to dry (plus, only a small amount on all surfaces are only required for an excellent bonding surface).
Formers F-1,4,8A,13,14 required some extra stringer notches but was easy to cut with a razor saw, especially, the 3 ply plywood.
Due do some stress near the tail from installing the stringers, F-13 was rising about a 1/16" so I weighted it down until after sheeting is applied.
I put stringers across the top of the formers where the wing will be attached: I'll then be able to sheet this entire area and then, after cutting it out, have a perfectly aligned top sheeting after installing the wing.
I also sistered some short pieces of stringer material to the back of the stringers around the horizontal fuse: this will allow me to add more stringers around the stab to sheet this area and, also, get a nice alignment around the stab area.

NOTE: it appears that the web site has fixed their picture uploading problems so I'll back and post previous pictures (post # 16).

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Old 09-26-2011, 12:28 PM
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samparfitt
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Default RE: Bates 106

Never too soon!

Presently, I'm thinking about an all aluminum covering as I did with my Ziroli P-47.
Old 09-26-2011, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

looking good. I've been thinking of an all aluminum covering for mine when i get started on it as well
Old 09-26-2011, 06:46 PM
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Default RE: Bates 106

Thanks, Thomas.

=========
Horizontal stab.

Got a few things done tonight.
With the horizontal stab, I'm using thin CA since parts are glued 'on end' with little support.
I like using zap's CA as the provided small tube allows small amounts of CA to be applied.
The two center ribs are glued at an 8 degree angle using a jig since the stab is a V shape.
The ribs were first CA'ed vertically to the 1/4" thick balsa TE.
A square was used to keep them perpendicular to the TE.
3/16" square balsa for the spars were then pinned to the plans and the ribs were CA'ed to it.
The 3/32" thick LE was then CA'ed to the ribs.

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Old 09-27-2011, 06:13 AM
  #23  
samparfitt
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Default RE: Bates 106

Horizontal stab (cont)

I cut some 1/64" thick ply 3/8" thick and CA'ed it to the top of some contest grade (4-7 lb) 3/32" thick sheeting for the trailing edge of the stab that will overlap the TE by a 1/4" (to reduce wind turbulence between the TE of the stab and LE of the elevator).
I then sanded the bottom side of the sheeting at about a 45 degree angle until it was zero thickness at the outside edge of the 1/64" thick ply.
The sheeting was then cut along the center line of the main spar and glued to the stab frame using carpenters glue.

Fuse (cont)
1/8" thick balsa sheeting glued to the top of the fuse using carpenters glue and lots of paint sticks and clamps.

NO pictures can be posted as the web site is hosed again.
(pic 55-57)
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:26 AM
  #24  
samparfitt
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Default RE: Bates 106

Horizontal stab (cont)

The rest of the top sheeting was added from the spar to the LE.
Waste was removed and top sheeting was sanded.
Dry fit of dihedral: 8.3 degrees versus spec of 8.0 (close enough!).
Sheer webbing added to main spar: usual spiel: small weight gain, big structural integrity gain.

Fuse (cont)
A full 3' X4" sheet added to the left side (minus trim for cockpit and nose): it took some strong clamps to get the sheeting around the nose.
Another full sheet added to the top, right of the fuse.

WEB site not functioning for uploading pictures.
(pic 58-64)

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Old 09-27-2011, 02:08 PM
  #25  
darren763
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Default RE: Bates 106

Keep up the good progress wish we could see it.....dang nab it.

Darren

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