WacoDream

Thanks Bob. A friend at the field let me borrow his today and I have mine coming this week. I'm sure we'll be fine once we get started. Can't wait!

jymster

My Feedback: (9)

WacoDream, I had the same problem with mine. Won't start without a starter. I think it has to do with the vacuum pressure needed to operate the pump in the carbie. You just can't get enough pulse pressure by hand swinging.

WacoDream

Had a great time this year at Top Gun. Much thanks to Steve Thomas for great support helping to break in the new EVO 260. She flew great and sounded even better. Now she hand props easily. I've run about a gallon of fuel through her now and the black stuff is starting to wean out a bit. Just received a new prop from Falcon today and excited to try it out this week. Plenty of power with this engine pulling my 50lbs+ Stearman with ease.

jymster

My Feedback: (9)

Hi Michael,

Great to hear about your success with the Evo 260. And your Stearman looks great! My Evo 260 is also running great in my 30% Stearman. Here are some snaps from a recent military scale event we have annually here in Australia.



And here is me with one of my mates, who also has an Evo 260 in his 1/3 scale Sopwith Triplane:



It is the perfect engine for both aircraft, though each has a completely different setup. The Evo in my Stearman uses the standard collector ring, and has the unique sound associated with it. I am swinging a 34" x 16" prop, and it will happily putt around at 1/3 throttle or I can open it up and really have some fun. However, for the Sopwith my mate has the exhaust headers completely removed on all cylinders, so that the exhaust is coming out directly from the heads. The sound it creates is perfect for a WWI rotary engine powered aircraft. He is swinging a 36" scale diameter prop on the Sopwith, at low rpm, and it sounds fantastic! He rarely gets it above half throttle.

The Sopwith has now had over 90 flights, and the Evo 260 is performing flawlessly. My mate has not had to adjust the tappets since around 50 flights, the gap has just remained the same. I have probably had around 20 flights with the Stearman, and it also is performing flawlessly. I've adjusted the tappets twice, and will check them again soon. But I do not expect too much adjustment will be necessary. I am still using the run in fuel mix, and so am still getting the black crap all over my wing. But hopefully this will start to subside once I reduce the oil content to 40:1.

We are always starting our engines with a starter, as we found it was too much work trying to start by hand. However, I have not tried it in a while, so maybe now that the engines have loosened up we might have more success. I might give it a try next time I take it out.

WacoDream

Wow James. Beautiful plane and great flying shots. Thanks for the insights. I'm going to run 1-2 more tanks with the break in mix and the looking forward to the cleaner 40:1 mix!

I just received a 34X14 prop today from Steve Thomas and I'm excited to try it out. Have been breaking this engine in with the 32X12 prop. I might try a 36" prop as well down the road.

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

I have the Evo 260 in my 1/3 scale Vought Vindicator. I was planning to use a 34X12 prop. What do you guys think. She goes about 80 pounds.
i
Jeff

kochj

Thought about placing this engine in the World models 100cc Stearman....
the 160cc could work... but the stearman weights in at a heft 40+ Pounds!!
I realize that the 33% Piper Pawnee 80cc ARF is @38lbs.....and flys nicely w/80cc twin. so the 7-Cylinder 160cc 4-Stroke would fly it... but the bigger cyls put out MORE sound...and sounds more real...
IMHO....

kochj

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] 30% Stearman PT-17
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]ode No.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 1%, align: left"]:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74%, align: left"]A300
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 25%, align: left"]Wing Span
[/TD]
[TD="width: 1%, align: left"]:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74%, align: left"]116 in / 2950 mm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 25%, align: left"]Wing Area
[/TD]
[TD="width: 1%, align: left"]:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74%, align: left"]3700 sq in / 238.7 sq dm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 25%, align: left"]Flying Weight
[/TD]
[TD="width: 1%, align: left"]:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74%, align: left"]36.4 lb / 16.5 kg
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 25%, align: left"]Fuselage Length
[/TD]
[TD="width: 1%, align: left"]:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74%, align: left"]88 in / 2240 mm
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 40%, align: left"]Engine Required
[/TD]
[TD="width: 1%, align: left"]:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74%, align: left"]100cc gasoline engine
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 40%, align: left"]Radio Required
[/TD]
[TD="width: 1%, align: left"]:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74%, align: left"]4-channel radio w/9 high torque servos
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

JTErcstuff

Hello from Arizona! I just purchased one of these evolution 260cc radial engines second hand from an estate sale. It is BNIB, but the only issue im having is that the hall effects sensor, and battery wire harness are missing from the box. I assume these come in the bag with all of the paperwork? there was a small card with explination of how tp attach the sensor, and 2 small screws to attach the sensor with, but sensor and battery harness are missing. I tried to contact Horizon hobby to help me source this part but no luck. Aperently they do not have a parts listing for these engines? does anybody have an idea of where to purchase these items? Thanks for all your help!

Lvan09

Sounds like a pretty loose definition of BNIB if parts are missing. What do you mean by battery wire harness? I'm sure Horizon will help if you can tell them exactly what you need, they're pretty good about supporting their products.

JTErcstuff

Well, "battery wire harness" may be an incorrect definition of what I think i need. On the rear of the engine is the ignition unit with the 7 spark-plug wires exiting it from the front, and a 4-wire wire harness exiting the rear of it. The 4-wire harness has grey, pink,blue, and a red wire terminated into specifically shaped plug with 8 pin-holes. The front of the engine case has a machined pocket for a hall effect sensor with 2 small screw holes at one end of the pocket to affix the sensor. The ignition instruction card that came with the engine states that the sensor must be installed, and that it is important to wire the battery polarity correctly to prevent damage to the sensor, but other than that is very vague. From what I can tell by looking at pictures, and watching videos of this engine running online, there is a small wire harness that plugs into the 8-pin plug on the ignition unit, and has the hall-effects sensor at the other end, along with a pair of un-terminated wires to attach a battery of your choice? In the picture on the Horizon website of the replacement ignition unit, it is clear that their is the main ignition unit, and a separate small wire harness with hall sensor but they do not list that part separately? Maybe somebody with one of these engines could send me a picture of these parts that I could relay to the guys at Horizon? Thanks for your help,

Greg Wright

My Feedback: (6)

I just pulled up the ignition parts on HH web site and cropped the image into 2 pictures. I don't know if this will help you but it should.

JTErcstuff

Yes! The parts in the left picture are what I am in search of. I will email this picture to the guys at Horizon for reference. I'm hoping that I don't have to buy a $950 ignition unit just to obtain the sensor?

kjni

Hi,
New to this thread and found a lot of useful info about the EVO radials. I have an EVO 160 that was badly damaged in a crash with my 1/2.8 Bücker Jungmeister after the engine quit in a vertical climb and the hight was not enough to recover.

Have rebuilt the engine with spare parts from HH but have not been able to find info on how to set valve timing. Have emailed both the manufacturer in India and Horizon support (Germany) asking for any info on this and an exploded drawing of the engine but no reply...

Does anyone have info on how to set the correct valve timing and also if the ignition timing can be set separately or is mechanically fixed to the valve cams? Anyone have an exploded view of the engine?

Regards
Kjell Nilsson
Östersund
Sweden

codiddley

My Feedback: (4)

Too Bad Horizon doesn't even seem to know about their own products. I'm almost glad I didn't buy one.

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Now that my Evo 7-260 has landed in my Corsair, be nice if someone made a Corsair style hub to finish off the front end of this beauty. Pulls the 62 pound Corsair with ease!

JQ

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

If you look back through the thread I believe there's information from someone who rebuilt his engine too.
He goes into valve timing etc.

EDIT:
Todays discussion concerns proper valve adjustment. First in my 30 years of 4 cycle engine flying I have found with complete consistency that valve adjustment is NOT critical. I have numerous times purposefully misadjusted valves and could barley perceive differences. What IS important is adjustment must allow both intake and exhaust valves to close completely or running goes to hell and valves and their seats get damaged on the double. Do not get me wrong I have high expectations of running quality and smooth transition through the throttle range.
Radials excepting the Saitos have a cam ring with multiple lobes to operate the valves. The more lobes the slower the cam ring runs relative to the shaft speed. Take a quiz! A cam ring has 5 lobe pairs.....what is its speed relative to the crank shaft?

OK on to the process; Removing all the glow plugs makes timing much easier so rotation is easy and the pistons can be seen at top dead center. Now start with the top cylinder even though this does not make a difference(you can start with any cylinder). Turn the prop to the point where both rockers are just moving and then one full turn to top dead center. You can see the piston through the glow plug hole. Turn the prop to the pistons highest point. Both rockers should have play. Adjust for correct clearance. You are NOT finished with this adjustment!! Now rotate the prop two full turns clockwise to the exact same position. The rockers might have the same clearance or have greater or lesser clearance. If lesser, readjust to correct. If greater leave alone. Now rotate the prop clockwise two full turns to again the same position. Check the clearance yet again, If lesser readjust if greater leave alone. The point is to never have a valve with too little clearance. A bit more does not hurt. Repeat this process for the remaining cylinders. You see each adjustment position is on a different cam lobe pair. This sounds like horrible tedium but once you get through a couple of cylinders it will go much faster than you thought. I can do the 9-90 in about one half hour. Maybe one glass of wine will help (only one!).

gregg660

My Feedback: (2)

What are you guys using to oil the rockers? Gear oil has a strong odor and creates its own mess. Heard the Teflon spray has been used??? I have the 160 in a TWM Stearman with 14 flights on it. Runs and performs well.
Thanks
Gregg Gas N Go

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

I now have 10 flights on my Evo 260. I must say, my engine runs like a million $$ and no need for the fuel pump. The only weird thing with mine is:

After the 7th flight, I went thru and reset all the valve lashes. I set them all at .004 per the manual. Now, ever since I did that I have been having problems with losing pushrods and on the last 2 flights, I have lost the c-clips and rocker arm shafts and rocker arms (and pushrods) on 2 different lower cylinderes, the first on the intake side and the second on the exhaust side.

I have no ide as to what would be causing the c-clips to pop off. On the previous flight to today, the shaft was still in the cylinder head, but a clip and the rocker arm was gone. Also, it looks like I may now have a stripped out cam rod housing threads on one cylinder. The first 7 flights were flawless with this engine.

Anyone else seen this? Luckily the pushrods are cheap. Rocker arms..not so cheap.

Thx

jymster

My Feedback: (9)

G'day F4u5,

I've only had around 20 flights on my Evo 260 so far, without too many issues, but have had one pushrod fall out and have lost a complete rocker assembly. One of my good mates has now had over 200 flights with his Evo 260, and so I am guessing he has probably had the most run time with his Evo out of anyone in the world. He had some of the issues reported here, but has now resolved all of them and he considers the Evo 260 to be one of the best radial engines available on the market, even better than the more popular Moki radials, of which he has had several. Here are some of the issues we've experienced and what we've done to resolve them.

I had one pushrod come out and my mate has also lost at least one pushrod in the early running of his 260. The issue we found is that some of the valves seem to stick slightly in the valve guides, which eventually causes them to stick open and hence the pushrod can fall out. We found that the best way to overcome this was to hone the valve guide. One way to do this is to attach a cordless drill to the stem of the valve (after removing the rocker arm, spring, etc.) and basically hone the valve guide by rotating the valve up and down for 30 seconds or so with the drill. It sounds crude and basic, but has seemed to work for me so far. I think the tolerance between the valve stem and the valve guide is a little too tight on some of the valves. It is also a good idea to lubricate the valve guides well, and do this every flying session, if possible.

One of my rocker pins has also come out, which consequently caused the loss the rocker arm assembly. We've found that all of the cir clips and e-clips in the Evo engines should be replaced. This includes both external (i.e. rocker pins) and internal (big ends) circlips. It seems that the stock ones are made from an inferior grade of steel and hence they are prone to stretch and fail. My mate bought his 260 2nd hand and found that one of the internal big end criclips had stretched and fallen off and had gone right through the engine, scoring the bore and nicking a valve seat. I would highly recommend that all Evo/Seidel (indian made) radial engine owners replace ALL of the cir clips and e-clips throughout their engines, including the smaller glow versions. The cir clips are cheap insurance, to say the least, and they are pretty easy to replace. I have not yet had an issue with my 260, but will be replacing all of the internal circlips very soon. I've already replaced all of the external e-clips for the rocker pins. My smaller Seidel 70cc radial (forerunner to the Evo 77cc) has now had around 80 flights, with no issues at all, however on my last flight a few weeks ago something came adrift inside the engine. I suspect it will be one of the criclips that has failed. Another mate has the 77cc Evo and he had the same issue.

Again, I highly recommend that ALL Evo and Indian made Seidel radial engine owners replace ALL of the circlips and e-clips inside and outside of their engines. Better safe than sorry.

Apart from these two issues, we've had nothing but great experiences with these engines. The run beautifully and start first go every time.

One other mod that my mate has done with his Evo 260, which is not mandatory but has been a great thing, is that he has removed all of the grease from inside the front cam case of his 260 and has replaced it with gear oil. He drilled and tapped a small hole in the front of the cam case, just below the prop shaft, and has filled the case up to this level with gear oil. He has made a little plug that screws into place. Since doing this mod he has found that he has not had to adjust the tappet clearance. Before the mod, he was readjusting the clearance around every 20 flights or so. I found this very interesting.

I hope this information helps.

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Wow jymstr, that is a very thorough reply and seems to approach exactly what my problems are. Other then the loss of pushrods and rocker arms, my engine has run flawless...even when these parts...depart. I agree, hand starting is very easy. I really appreciate your reply. Just out of curiosity, where did you obtain your replacement c-clips (hardware store, online, tolling company of some kind)? Even tho we are 1/2 a world apart, I am curious what you went with. I did think the clips went on the rocker shaft quite easily. An internal view of this engine would be quite a site, as to the mods.


I do lube the valve train each day (so far no more than 1 flight on a given day) with gear oil. It is difficult to get lube to the lower cylinder pasts.

Thanks much.

Regards,
Jeff

jymster

My Feedback: (9)

Hi guys,

I found these images of the Evo pulled apart. Might be helpful for some.

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

I am officially fed up with the poor quality of this engine. I will be making a call to Horizon Monday. I spent a lot of time prepping the engine for a flyin and drove 12 hours to warbirds over Michigan only to be grounded again for the entire event. This time I had 2 cam rod brass fittings appear to loosen and strip out and I lost the exhaust rod on the bottom cylinder....one 2 minute flight and grounded for the remaining 3 days! To us it appears there is nowhere near enough thread engagement on these brass fittings to make them sustainable over time. The engine also started making a knocking sound (new issue). I spoke with another gentleman who has the same issues as me (engine throwing parts). So, for me I have 11 flights that have resulted in me having to replace a total of 11 pushrods, 2 rocker arms (about 70 bucks in parts) and I even came to the flyin with 10 extra pushrods and 5 spare rocker arms. Now I have all new issues that will require the engine to be sent in. For $3k+ for an engine and 11 flights that have resulted in 9 engine issues that have grounded me for those days, not to mention the risk to a $10k airplane, there is no excuse for such poor quality.

So, this is the advertising Horizon and Evolution are getting. At this flyin, we had 2 airplanes with Evo 7-260 engines that we grounded due to issues. This, in turn, swayed one gentleman to be concerned in installing his 260 and another one from buying the engine who was considering the engine for his next project.
Jeff

jymster

My Feedback: (9)

G'day Jeff,

That is a real bummer, mate. I can understand your concerns and I agree that there seem to be some serious quality control issues at play here. We've not had as many issues as you've had, but we have had a few. I think the main difference is that we diagnosed the problems quickly and sorted them out early. We now have very reliable engines. Whilst I agree that it is not something we should have to fix ourselves, here in Australia we unfortunately don't have the convenience of being able to send the engines back to Horizon easily, and so can not easily just pop it back for repairs. And now that our engines are out of warranty we have no choice but to be resourceful ourselves. To be fair I also note that there are many unhappy Moki radial owners as well, albeit for different reasons. I think a big part of the issue is that radials just need a lot more maintenance and work than single or twin cylinder engines. It is the nature of the beast, I'm afraid. The full scale engines are no different.

However, these engines do have some quality control issues that can easily be sorted out, with a little bit of knowhow. Below are my two recommendations to anyone owning an Evo 260, to make it a reliable and long lasting engine:

1. Replace all internal circlips (con rods) and external e-clips (rocker arm pins) with quality clips. The stock cir clips are made of inferior steel and are libel to eventually stretch and come off during running of the engine. When the external e-clips come off you can lose a rocker arm assembly. When an internal circlip comes off it can go right through the engine, score the cylinder bore and jam open one of the valves. Can make a real mess if not diagnosed early. Best to replace them all as early as possible.

2. Check all valve guides for fit tolerance. We had 1 or 2 cylinders that threw pushrods, but after checking the valve guides we found that they were sticking open, hence pushrods fell out. We've since honed the pushrod guides, simply my attaching a cordless drill to the valve stem and rotating in and out for several minutes, and haven't had a problem since.

These seem to be the two most common issues with these engines, and something that Horizon should definitely be looking into fixing at a factory level. Apart from these two issues the quality of the engines has so far proved to be excellent. My mate Craige has now clocked over 200 flights on his 1/3 scale Sopwith Triplane with the Evo 260. That's a pretty good advertisement right there. However, he did perform the two recommendations above very early on, and now has relatively trouble free running of this engine.

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

James, while I appreciate your resourcefulness, and talent.....and believe me I do apreaciate your info, I just disagree that for a $3k+ engine, we modelers should have to rebuild it. I did replace all of the clips on the rocker arm shafts, as you say, but I do not plan to disassemble the engine for internals. Nonetheless, I now have issues with the brass fittings that retain the cam rod lifters. This appears to be another poor mfg area. You really should have at lease 2D thread engagement into aluminum, and the 2 of mine that stripped out, I just don't see that amount of engagement (not close). I have the skills to pull this engine apart and go thru it, but, for me, I will send it back to Horizon and make them sort it out. If the engine does not run satisfactory, live and learn, I will simply move on to a 2 cylinder opposed. This experience has convinced me that radialsare not worth the hassle. Best of luck to others runnings this engine. Too bad,because when it is running, it is running good and strong.

Jeff