georgek54

Hi Friends

I am considering buying this ARF KIT from BLACK HORSE, which -here in Greece- comes from RIPMAX. I think it's the same thing.

The only obvious disadvantage I see in this model is its covering, from PVC. I had in the past a VMAR TEXAN covered with PVC and I had the problem that I couldn't make repairs to this model. Nor MONOKOTE, ORACOVER or COVERITE was friendly to the PVC material. They couldn't stick on it, nor this material could stand iron heat, and in any case it was an inconvenient material. I remember that finally I removed the whole PVC covering and replaced it with MONOKOTE.

So, I would like to ask somebody who has already purchased this model about his experience with repair works.

Thank you in advance

Regards

George

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

The ESM Stuka's look much better. I do not own a BH Stuka but have seen them at the fireld and for the money, the ESM blow them away. The covering and colors look terrible, IMO.

3136

Well that depends on which country you live, in Australia some importers put huge markups on their models.
I bought my BH Stuka for $350, the ESM Stuka would set me back $600 here.
What would the price comparison be in the States?

As far as looks go, I think it looks good, but when you get it, the covering is shiny, I sprayed it with a rattlecan of matt clear coat, and it looks HEAPS better.
I haven't damaged mine yet so I can't say how any film would adhere to it. I would guess it would be a bugger though. Just don't crash it.
They do fly lovely though, I put a dle 30 in mine, way overpowered but it balanced nicely.

Regards Mark

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

Well, I mostly agree with 3136. The Black Horse plane is essentially a sport plane that has been made to look somewhat like a Stuka. It will look much better if you add some small scale details like a coat of flat clear. Unfortunately, even those additions don't make it even close to as cool looking as the ESM plane. I just can't get over that cheesy covering. A guy in our club bought one, and I think it just looks "off". It could have just been his poor building skills, but when he was running up the engine pieces were just rattling off the plane. He claims that he followed the directions to the letter, so I'll let you make your own conclusions.

The BH plane will certainly be an easier plane to fly since it has much lighter wing loading. However, even at 19 lbs, my ESM Stuka flies wonderfully and practically floats in for landing. If you've ever flown any type of warbird, you'll have no problem with the ESM plane.

VIRGINIA MODEL BUILDERS

My Feedback: (159)

We happen to be dealers for both BH and ESM and I can attest to what you are saying.The ESM wins hands down and it can be succesfully repaired.It is covered in ORACOVER and then painted.

VIRGINIA MODEL BUILDERS

My Feedback: (159)

We happen to be dealers for both BH and ESM and I can attest to what you are saying.The ESM wins hands down and it can be succesfully repaired.It is covered in ORACOVER and then painted.

3136

Well it sure looks like a Stuka to me, I wouldn't have confused it with an extra or any other sport plane.

The esm one looks nice too, I would be happy to have that in my hangar, the local price here was $250 difference.
What is the price comparison in USA?

3136

Here is a pic of the esm, they don't look that different to me, maybe I need my eyes tested???

tmaucher

Is it feasible to install a siren in one of these?

3136

You refer to the siren of jerrico,
do a search on utube, there are a few who have done them, however they sound like a joke to me so I wouldn't bother.
If you or anyone else has any better idea, please post it, as I would love to ad it to my plane, I don't think a realistic sound is possible though.

Regards Mark

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

In person, there's just something about the Black Horse model, especially the cowl, that just doesn't look right to me. Doesn't matter though, to each his own. It is a great flier though.

I've added a siren to my Stuka using an electric 12V siren that's driven by a 50A brushed ESC and a 11.1V lipo. It's mounted behind the firewall. Mark is right, it's not the most scale sounding, but it's kinda neat and has a lot of "wow" factor for the guys at the club.

georgek54

Well, I understand that ESM STUKA is definitely better. I wonder if there is an ESM distributor in Europe, because to import it from USA isn't simple.

I also wonder if somebody has tried LINDINGER's STUKA. It is supposed to come from "PLANET HOBBY" but I am confused with all these Chinese firmas. The same model appears for example in England as coming from BLACKHORSE and in Greece from RIPMAX.

It is very essential to be able to make a little repair in your plain to keep it perfect. A scale plane needs to be so.

And it is sure that after -say- 10 or 20 flights SOMETHING will appear, that will need a small repair. PVC coating doesn't help.

Regards

George

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

I'm not sure if this is an option for you, but there is an ESM distributor in England. He posts here quite frequently under the handle alanc.

grh_70

A UK ESM Stuka source :

http://www.bigplanes.nl/contents/en-uk/d70.html

Ed

Here is your real answer >>> http://ziroliplans.com/ziroliplans/cat_frameset.html

ed

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

Beautiful plane, yes. However, it seems like he is interested in ARFs and not kits. Some of us don't have the time or interest for kit builds. I'm guessing that George is one of them.

kwik

Most, but not all of Planet Hobby here is actually ESM;

(There is a BIG Corsair there, bird cage canopy.Looks like Easytiger)

http://www.easytigermodels.com/index...roducts_id=273

The Stuka is ESM.

http://shop.lindinger.at/index.php?c...d422c4d7ae6b2e

The Black Horse Stuka is quite a bit smaller than the ESM. I have seen it up close, next to mine (which is ESM)

The ESM Stuka has one BIG disadvantage. The gear. Soft chinese steel, softer than butter. The BH Stuka has
the kind of gear I would love to have on the ESM.

Lidinger only ships to the countries they list at the bottom. Sort of sabotage of free enterprise.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

If the covering was pulled off, and any open bays closed off with balsa, then it could be fiberglassed, then shot with latex. That would make it come to life. If you are really motivated, panel lines could be added in the primer process. Be sure to fuelproof well if using glow.
As for the Trumpets of Jericho, I have not heard anything that sounds good. Tough to get over the sound of the engine.

3136

All planes in WW2 had a lot of battle/wear damage, on both sides.
Invasion stripes were sometimes painted on allied planes with a mop.
There weren't any neat lines like you see on most modelplanes.
Too many people make their planes look so neat and tidy, they don't actually represent a "scale bird"

No matter what make or model you have, try and roughen it up a little, exhaust and gun lines are a good start.
Irarely clean my planes, I leave the mud and crap on them, they actually look better.

PS my BH has a thicker pvc than most, the edges haven't lifted at all, the glue must be pretty good. She has had around 5 visits to the field and a number of flights.
My world models Mustang on the other handhas shrink on film, I am continually ironing it down and making patch over strips to keep the seams together.
So I stay away from WM planes now. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another BH or ESM though.
I just wish the importer in Australia didn't put twice the markup that other countries have, it just restricts the overall sales, if they were the same price that USA gets them for I would have 10 of the ESM line.

Regards Mark

georgek54

It is true that I 'd prefer an ARF plane instead of a KIT (Most of us have a very limited time for construction).

Now about a possible repair: When I had the VMAR TEXAN I made once a hard landing. As a result the wheel system came into the wing!

God, it was quite difficult o repair it! Apart from the fact that the plane was (at this time) NOT constructed from Balsa, but from a VIETNAM lemon wood which was extremely fragile, when I finished the hardware I had to cover again the wing. Alas! it was impossible for MONOKOTE, ORACOVER etc. to stick on the existing covering!

After this I decided not to buy, ever again, a PVC covered plane.

Just for fun, I would like to refer also this: When finally I crashed the TEXAN (it was my mistake) the plane was broken in so small pieces (VIETNAM lemon wood !) that I had to work for at least half an hour on the runway with a broom, a dust pan and a plastic bag to clear it !

Now, about Lindinger, it is true that they are not selling some items to all the countries. Strange, isn't it ?

Regards

George

kwik

George, yes it is strange.

Now, as far as I understand, to my limited knowledge within law, this is what is defined as a Cartel ?
What do you think?

You can read about Cartels here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel

"The EU's competition law explicitly forbids cartels and related practices in its article 81[11] of the Treaty of Rome.
Since the Treaty of Lisbon came into effect, the 81 EC is replaced by 101 TFEU. "

This is what EU is all about. Trying to create a common marked, like in the US.

On the other hand, it could be some other reason? I know that in certain countries, like Norway, they
add some very strange extra rules, that the seller must do this and that, like filling in extra information which pisses
the seller so much off, that they simply dont want to ship to these countries.

Like for example in Norway, they like very much to trace all transactions, in order to get their hands on the tax, the VAT and whatever....

georgek54

What I think, perhaps Lindinger got the permission to sell products in some countries, while in other countries there are other PLANET HOBBY representatives. I see also, that SAITO gas motors are sold by Lindinger only in Austria, not in other countries.

There must be some kind of deal between Lindinger and PLANET HOBBY or SAITO, regarding the countries where Lindinger has the permission to sell.

I am thinking to send a mail to Lindinger asking him about all this, because here in Greece there is no representative either of PLANET HOBBY or SAITO.

Regards

George

VIRGINIA MODEL BUILDERS

My Feedback: (159)

3136

OK I'll ask for the third time, what is the price comparison between the two in the USA?

Regards Mark

SJN

Just order them from Holland instead...same prices.

http://bigplanes.nl/contents/en-uk/d70.html