Magnum RC

Lado retract systems have been unsurpassed in providing powerful and reliable options for electrifying retract operations. I was also quite surprised at ESM's attempt into the electric retract market. Lado's were the first modern day electric option and years ahead in electronic development. The speed and power has been increased by double since the first set were introduced. And we are like the Maytag repairman waiting for repairs.

hyflyer9

I have been told by VQ and ARF Pro's That ESM is coming out with a gen 2 line of E Retracts and they are boasting an 8 Sec. cycle not sure if they are going to be powerful enough for the Metal wheels or not. We will see i guess in other words i will believe it when i see it.

vasek

My Feedback: (4)

Lado are too expensive for my taste. I'm glad WingSpan came along, I see them in my ESM Spitfire in the near future

hyflyer9

Are the Wingspan Retracts a reto fit or are they full Retracts I was on thier web site last night and all i could find was the drives and will they fit the ESM E Retracts or just the Air systems.

da Rock

They have a picture of the rotating retracts I just fitted into my H9 Hellcat right on the front page of their website: http://www.wingspanretracts.com/

I pulled the Lado's from the Hellcat and put the Wingspans. Had to do a bit of fitting but they're almost identical, just a bit wider and longer, but basically retracts units that plug into your receiver. The reason I'm trying them out is the Wingspan's move through 100degrees. Most warbirds need the wheels forward to keep from pitching forward on taxi or takeoff. Every Lado equipped H9 I've got does that in a heartbeat. If this retrofit works out, I got a Corsair and a Warhawk that are going to get a lot more flying than before.... after they're retrofitted.

Nothing works out perfectly however. The Lado's fit right into the H9s. They don't taxi worth spit, but installing is dead simple. The Wingspans are enough larger that there is some fitting required for the models I have Lado's in. Ain't never easy as advertised.

da Rock

The acutators Wingspan offers is on this page: http://www.wingspanretracts.com/Actuators

They're for converting/operating ESM and Robart retract systems.

Mpizpilot

My Feedback: (45)

Wow! For 50 bucks I can convert my gear to electric. Ill be doing that ASAP.

flytaildragger

My Feedback: (8)

I would think this has more to do with correct balance and piloting. I fly Warbirds all the time and never have noseovers, even in tall grass. The only bird that is a problem I have flown is the Spitfire. Even ESM's 109 that is tricky on takeoff has the axles behind the leading edge of the wing and I have no problem in noseovers takeoff or landings. Agreed the 100 degree retracts put the wheel axles in front of the leading edge of the wing, but it also messes with takeoff angles and such, if you get used to it that way, better make sure you always fly with 100 degree retracts. The real planes didn't have them that I know of should the models? I think it makes a better pilot to learn with scale equipment. ONLY my opinion from someone who enjoys the challenge....

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

1) I cant speak for Lado , never owned any , all I know is reports on the later released versions is that they have play vs the very accurate early release versions.
2)wingspan retracts ? I thing they look great but please add this up as an example
1)esm stock retracts avg price $149
2)Two set of actuators thru Wingspan $149
Total cost $298 (do it yourself ) or if the do the labor =$350
Now you in the neighbor of Sierra gear , I know sierra is not eletric but its is a great quality product

vasek

My Feedback: (4)

Or you can buy a pair of these for $ 175:
http://www.wingspanretracts.com/LGM695

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

vas the problem have with the eletric retract market is that I still can not tell the differance with so many of the componant parts . With the product in the picture that you have shown I would like to think they are better then the $29 set I have from Hobby King or $100 set I have from RClander , but you can not tell from the pics .
So what makes them better ?? let me share problem with eletric retracts that are on the market today and this info can be found on the "other" rc website in a very very long thread under eletric warbirds . I started the thread when I bought a set of $89 retracts from Horison and a set on $14 retracts from China (direct ) the componants and quality were virtually 100% the same , so from that point on I want to be sold on the quality real pics , not discriptions or assumptions . The retract community needs to sell us with real features and real benifits .
Ok so back to problem that can be associated with eletric retracts :
1)weak gear drive will bend and need replacement on an avg amount of "ok" landings or one bag one
2)gaps in the houseing that the gear drive rides in , this will create over drive or under drive and eventully break the gear drive , the houseing needs to 100% accurate or much more accurate then every stock unit on the market .
3)plastic or weak trunins (even the medal ones are weak) . The plastic are uselsss on planes larger then 6 lbs and they barley hold up on 6 lbs and under . The medal trunions tend to strip when you attempt to tighten them with the proper size tools .
4)play in the gear leg and the retract first the gear leg , the legs tend to turn in or out "freely) this places stress on componants that are not designed for stress . Now play in the retracts , this places stress in the internal gears that make the unit retract .
5)Small holes for after marker struts (seems like wingspan had figured this part out ) but many will tell you they are designed for 60 to 120 size planes but dont allow gear legs to support such a plane .
6)durability -again this is associated across all parts that I have not menthioned , Ihave about 7 differant brands and feel no real winner has emerged yet , they all have issues .
Some peopel will swear by lado , well maybe the orginal owners and product but I dont see the same QC from the new manufactuer when it comes to tolerances vs the original (not opinion) field obersvation and feedback .
7)motor strength -power to leift the wheels , structs ect that are suitable for a plane in the same range that the retract clame to work in example 60 to 120 size
So my point is before I drop $150 and above on eletric retracts , for "quality" I want to be sold because so far my $14 to $60 ones are working just fine.
Notice I did not menthion retract speed ? to me that is the simplest element to fix , if they put out a good retract and can fix the speed issues they will be in the top two because the esm houseing is not bad , it was all about the air leaks .

mike31

My Feedback: (67)

Info for y'all. A multi start thread would increase operating sequence times. Adjust the pitch to suit when manufacturing the screw.

da Rock

Have you seen any pictures of a Corsair or Hellcat from the side? Notice the forward rake on the struts? The real planes don't have nose over problems for a couple of very good reasons. Their tires contact the ground far enough forward. Their CGs are far enough back.

Both the real Corsair and real Hellcat have gear that doesn't stick straight down from their wings, like almost every mechanical gear in our model plane world does. You're dead right. The real planes don't nose over easily. Their CGs are in good relationship with the tires' footprints, and the footprints are farther forward than 90 degrees down.

da Rock

Look at the struts in these two pictures. Notice the forward rake? Look at where the tire footprints are in relationship to where the CGs of those planes are.

In real life the struts are farther forward than 90 degrees, and we can't see the CGs but for sure they're farther aft than most "balanced slightly nose down" model airplanes'.

vasek

My Feedback: (4)

I agree on the Hellcat there's a noticeable rake forward, however, on the Corsair the relative relationship between the extended gear and the wing (angle) looks like a 90 degree. The fact the airplane is sitting on the ground makes for the forward rake. But the gear would be an 90 deg "retract"

da Rock

You're right about the Corsair for sure. Not much rake, but there is some. Look at another picture.

The rake is pretty small, but notice in both pictures where the strut starts in the wing. It's about as close as it can be to the LE. The gear door on the Corsair in the big picture actually angles back, the strut is partially hidden by it but angles forward.

Both my Corsair and Hellcat have the retracts placed in the wings such that the struts pivot aft where they pivot in the real birds. The pivot on the Hellcat is over 2" aft the LE of the model. The Corsair pivot is almost 2" and that's where the wing chord is about 13". No matter where we draw the lines on our pictures, the models suffer from where the struts are pivoted and benefit from being angled forward when down and locked.

On the models, the retracts should really be farther forward for scale location of the strut pivots. But they're not.

Whatever the exact angle forward on the real birds, neither is 90 degrees from the CL of the wing. And with their pivot points, the models need rake to compensate.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

Your dreaming about the weight of the airframe, are you not. Be happy if it comes out at 17lbs wet.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

I hear everyone complaining about retraction speed. Why is this an issue when flying scale airframes. Check out some UTube vibs on WWII aircraft taking off and watch the retraction speed of the landing gear. Yes, you take your chances if you encounter an inflight emergency where gear extension quickly is paramount but with pneumatics you also encounter problems. The advent of these new retractable landing gear systems are far superior to pneumatics. Did I say new, remeber Kraft had them back in the fifthtees.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

flycatch could not agree more lol , on my air retracts I spent hours getting them to slow down .
That is why I feel the new esm will be something to really look at , cant wait !!! , I want all my retracts over to eletric .

flytaildragger

My Feedback: (8)

I didn't mean to spark such an analysis, but the point I am making is that even in all the examples that has been presented to prove that there is a forward rake beyond the 90 degrees, I also notice that the axle pretty much comes close to the leading edge of the wing in all pictures. None of them come close to being 100 degrees. On my large scale ESM Corsair the wheels position in down and locked with the axle just behind the leading edge of the win with a 90 degree retract. If a 90 degree doesn't place the axle close to the leading edge of the wing, then the model manufacturer has mislocated the retract position. These examples refer to aircraft with rotating undercarriage. Some of the planes with landing gear moving into the wing sideways are mostly all raked forward. The story seems to still be the same though, The axle coming very close to the leading edge of the wing. A 100 degree retract should not be necessary to move the axle pivot point in front of the leading edge of the wing. All I am saying, is that IF the axle position is in that correct position, one should not have a noseover problem unless he is making fast wheel landings on grass. It is only my opinion, but a 100 degree retract should only be on a nosewheel where it looks ok...
Most good warbird pilots I have seen do not have these 100 degree retracts on their planes.....

The Spitfire was the only exception, but then look where it's wheel is located in reference to the leading edge....

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I use to worry about being a good warbird pilot , then i realized it was better to be a good model airplane pilot . More importantly I realized that the "urban"legends on what , why , never , its to hard ect " is just that urban lengend .
When I started to fly models of warplanes , I learned that when built as "models" even with major scale additions , they fly better then building them as warplanes without losing the scale fedelity .
So weather forward rake is relavant , weather you can fly in 10 ft high grass , God Bless you , but at every field I have been at with very experienced pilots including the Famed Dave Platt , the forward rake is evident , and in so many cases its added by modelers who can land and fly great .

da Rock

Only problem is the Lados place the strut about 2 inches back from the LE of the wing and that's on a wing that's got about a 13" chord. No matter what, if the gear comes down 90 degrees that axle is going to be 2" behind the LE. And then for ground handling, you'll need the CG back far enough to get the footprint 15 degrees out from that CG.

To get the axle position correct simply can't be done with a 90 degree arc from a mechanism that puts the trunion 2" behind the LE.

You're absolutely right about "IF the axle position is in the correct position". But 90 degrees won't put it there from the H9's gear box hole..

Sessholvlaru

Could you give me a ballpark figure on what an ESM electric retract conversion would run for two mains and a tailgear? I assume this would be cheaper than a Sierra retrofit? Thanks.

irocbsa

My Feedback: (12)

I'm not sure why you're surprised about the complaints here. How is 40-60 seconds anywhere near acceptable? I've watched plenty of videos of full scale aircraft of the era, and none of the them come anywhere close to taking a full minute to retract or extend. For example, check out this one of a 109. Retraction at 1:35.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nj77mJlzrc

I count about 10 seconds for both gear to fully retract. I think the criticism here is very valid.

hyflyer9

here is a real good example of the retract speed of the full scale P39 see linkbelow.
[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeLMDw2Fgso&feature=related[/link]