brockettman

The key letter her is "F"

FLY, people! It's a great hobby. Doesn't matter if you cut your bird from a bunch of sticks, or if someone built it for you...

ahab.st.one

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i agree with Warbird Joe wen he said



there is also a famous quote froma person i dont remember their name ''different strokes for different folks''
it is totally up to the pilot if they want to do a Kit or an ARFi could also say it can also dependon time and space which is also noted in this thread

billberry189

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I have been buiding and flying model airplanes for over 50 years, and until recently I had never owned an ARF. However, I ran across a NIB Top Flite GS P-40 Warhawk ARF for $400 at a local swap meet and I could not pass it up. What I noticed most about this first ARF was that it was more of an assembly process than a build. IMHO it is as much a warbird as the Top Flite GS P-47 Thunderbolt that I have been building for the last year. The bottom line here is that either one of them can be crafted into a more realistic representation of the real thing that they are representing. The difference is in the detail not in whether they are warbirds. After all would a Cheverolet cease to be an automobile because it is not a Ferrari? Then why would an ARF cease to be a warbird because it is not a kit, and therefore unworthy of discussion on a warbird forum? For me at least the P-40 ARF will be a useful learning tool since I am a new be to warbirds and tail draggers at the same time and it will give me some experience with both before I maiden my P-47 kit in which I have a great deal more time and effort.

Loopman

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Frets,
Those are some gorgeous planes, and exactly what I was hoping for. You do good work!

Happy Flying!

Loopman

LDM

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Trying to post some pics but arfs are not just assembly if you like to tweek them. Based on your scale experinece you can really have fun on the details .
My CMP Fw190 has a scatch built interior, airpowered canopy, home made wheels , added the scale arm to the sierra gear and retro fit of steerable tail wheel .(Not an easy task in an ARF to add a cable and tail wheel retract from the outside of a plane .YOu need compound meter to detect the correct width and shape of the project formers inside the fuse and then you have assemble from the outside and slide it in lol . It is 100% easier to build then tweek some arfs

billberry189

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Loopman,

My bad

LDM

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some CMP Fw190 pics and some simple EPO 55MM planes modified all arfs

billberry189

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LDM,

Great work and craftmanship. That is exactly what I ment by attention to detail. As far as ARF assembly as opposed to build I was referring to the basic airframe. Your birds are an example of the craft I referred to.

Bill

makmov

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I am afraid so.

The world would end without Ferrari.

Forza Scuderia Ferrari!

Tifosi

The bells would never ring again in Maranello

fw190

My Feedback: (37)

You guys do wonderful things with these ARFs, I bet it would be better if you started with a very scale set of plans, I know it takes longer but if you have to tear down the coverings its almost as easy to just building one from plans. IMHO

makmov

My Feedback: (1)

You don't really need to disguise the truth, and the truth of the matter is perception = perception is reality.

I am guilty of it probably the same as some others. An ARF is just not the same. Okay it can be the exact same airplane built exactly the same - although I don't know who'd want a Monokoted Warbird. It seems like a cheat to those who spend many hours building, constructing and crafting their airplane. There is just a different feeling, attitude, about crafting an Warbird from a box of sticks, and to be quite honest, many of them are much better in quality than there ARF counter parts. I mean an ARF has to be constructed in the least amount of time with the least amount of materials and construction for them to make a profit. It just has to be otherwise an Top Flight Gold ed would cost $1000.00.

Call it snobby, a prestige, or whatever you want, but I have much more respect for someone that puts a kit in the air than an ARF. Sorry, I just do and that's the honest truth - that obviously nobody has the guts to say. I don't care really.

Furthermore, it's just not the same feeling to put an ARF in the air, as if you are the kit builder, a craftsmen. I have put an ARF in the air and crashed... no heartbreak, no emotion, just that sucks and move on to the next one. I mean I felt pretty bad about crashing my original Midwest Malibu 40 trainer, and it had lots of time on it. It was ready for retirement, it had been banged up, fixed up and was getting heavy and not flying as well as it once did. However, it was mine, I built itand had some heart and soul into it. The ARF I crashed, nothing. Other than I am out X number of dollars.

I have always noticed - not always - but a lot of the time people with ARFs are far more wreckless than kit builders.

I realize this discussion is about ARF's = Warbird, which they do without question. Are they the same thing? Sorry, not so much, I am afraid. Generally speaking, but as with most things there are exceptions. I said it before, there are somegood ARFsout there, just like there are crappy kit builders are out there.I can further appreciate the guys who take their ARFs to the next level.

So I am sure this was just another arguement thinly disguised as something other than kits vs ARFs.

I understand, and I am not trying to make ARF buyers and flyers feel bad. They are what they are, generally they just want to fly - and not build, or not good builders. I get it, and that part is cool with me. It the part where the ARF guy says I am the same as you, with your kit plane....

Nope, no you are not,there is a reason why you bought an ARF and I built a kit of the same plane and they are completely different. Not to say one is better than the other, they are just different, and I completely understand why many kit builders look down at ARFs.

It's for the exact same reason model car builders look down on diecast collection like the plague - and there are some pretty awesome diecast cars out there;there are some pretty crappy ones too- it's PRIDE.

warbird addict

Why wouldn't an ARF be considered a warbird or belong in the warbird discussion forum ? a corsair is a corsair is a corsair, I think the prejudice concerning ARF's is unfounded and a better point to make would be, that in any buisness the retailers and manufacturers are responding to an overwhelming demand to market a wanted item that increases their bottom line , after all they are gonna supply us with what we ask for based on the numbers $$$$ that prove that it's a profitable move to do so.
I do agree that the kit or plans builder should be taken care of equally as well as the ARF builder, however it is ALL about supply and demand, if the demand is greater 100 to 1 for arf's VS kits ,what would any one of us do if we were the ones supplying the modeling community? think about it if I can sell 100.000 arfs at an average of $569 per VS 1000 kits at an average of $300 per, what would YOU target your efforts tp supply.
Like it or not ARF's are the result of an astronical demand generated by US the modeling community to fill a void that enables alot of us to participate in this hobby where some of us wouldn't be otherwise.

rcfighterjock

Gentlemen,

Please, an ear. This has degraded from "is an ARF a Warbird?" (which is like asking "Is a kit a banana?") into ARFs vs. KITS. Let's back to the true subject. Is an ARF a Warbird? Help us all out. To answer this question, we must gather together and find the truth. Define "Warbird"" and you'll be a D*MN site closer to answering the original question: Has this been fun, or what??? Keep 'em flyin', boys!!

makmov

My Feedback: (1)

I think that has already be clearly determined. AWarbird is a Warbird, doesn't matter if it was scratched, kitted,ARF, RTFor the stork dropped it from the sky. End of discussion

planenuts47

Have recently started flying an ARF warbird and fortunately for it is semi scal and flys very much like a sports model. I kow the purests who claim that the only warbird model that counts is one you build yourself, however from discussions around my local club on this subject these hand made models can be extremely difficult fly, will fall out of the sky yada yada yada. So I say, keep the arf warbirds coming so that all flyers can enjoy the thrill of owning and flying one.

Happy flying gang

Altered1

to misquote a quote about a duck:  if it looks like a warbird, sounds like a warbird.... she's a warbird!

P47Pilot

How can one disagree?

I am sure the feeling of flying a kit built GS P-47 is quite differentfrom that of flyingthe same plane in ARFversion, but theyare nonetheless undoubtedly scale renditions ofa full-size plane that actually flew in combat, i.e. a scale RC Warbird. Whether one respects kit-builders more than ARF-flyiersor not, is an entirelydifferent issue.

Most cars that are bought,are RTD (Ready To Drive). Some, I guess, areARD(Almost Ready to Drive). Som may even be kit-built. I am sure the feeling of driving akit-built car is different from driving an RTD. I know for a fact that the feeling of driving an ARD is a hell of a lot different from driving n RTD. They are nevertheless allcars.

What about kit-built vs ARFcivilian scalebirds?What about kit-bult vs ARF sports model? What about kit-bult vs ARF or RTF trainers? I am sure the feeling of flying a kit-builtmodelof any kind is different from flying a ARF version of the same any kind, but they are surely all RC model airplanes.

A scale model rendition of a Warbird is a Warbird model.Kit vs ARf is a question of how it was made, not a question of what it is.

I deeply respect kit-builders who invest 1000 working hours on perfectinga model, be it warbirds or anything else. I also respect an excellentRCpilot who brings an ARF to the airfield and flies 5 flights a day 2 days a week week after week with little or no damage to his ARF.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

many good points and some would have zero relavance to the general public and I will explane. When attending Warbirds Over Deleware or Warbirds Over Pa , I attend as a spectator , not a pilot . This allows me to simply attend with family have fun and walk around ect . The interesting thing is that the general public (my family included) they see every plane at that event as a warbird. They are not sitting there judgeing if its a kit , an arf , semi kit , scratch build , glossy , flat ect .Its about the cool factor .
Evereyone has personal choices but on appearance a Warbird at an event to the general public is based on appearance of military colors , armament , or use of servace during the war .
I would also ventur in the same light that while attending a warbird event if the general public were to see a corsair in racing colors , regardless of its scratch built or arf , they would see it a racing plane and not a warbird .
While this thread is a discussion it is leading the respondors in its title "do ARFS Belong in Warbirds" . Its already making many assumtions , 1)that all warbirds in the warbirds thread/events are scratch built or kit built 2)that all ARFs can or may be a warbird (example ) lets take a Piper Cub ARF keep it yellow add guns does this belong in warbords ?No , but with tweeks , modified to a Birddog , ect perhaps then it does .3)the same question would not get the same responce in ARfs -example I bought this Top Flight P40 ARFs , is it ok to post this in ARfs ? many would say cool ,lets see it , others and perhaps the moderator would say "lets move this to warbirds".
If the ARF warbird was a long build thread with many mods , the thread started would most likely move it himself to warbirds .
Its all subject to interpertation but one thing is for sure , its the anal nature of the rc community to draw lines , the general public is far more accepting then those in the rc hobby and in reality that is a shame . As some very wise peopel have said in this thread , fly with a capital F , just fly .
Personaly in the gang that I hang with and fly with , we are excited to see anything come to the field , and because we love warbirds as a gang , we dont care if its built , or an arf ect .

scale only 4 me

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IMO The OP question should have been rephrased,, Obviously a warbird is a warbird whether it's factory, kit or scratch built or anything in between.

He was really asking "Do threads about ARFs, that happen to be warbirds, belong in the Warbird Section of RCU".. It was in response to his other thread getting shut down

frets24

My Feedback: (15)

Nice looking work there LDM, your FW190 cockpit looks great. Who's wheel was the base for your upfit? Or is it a total scratch built?

The OP asked a two part question in #'s 1 and 8; Do ARF's belong in warbirds and a request to see some before and after mods and upgrades. IMHO the first part has been beat here and elsewhere so lets see if we can get some more pics posted After all, isn't it more fun to look at cool planes than to read alot of thinly veiled who's better than who, what's better than what? As said and shown I've done plenty of both (kits/Arf) as well as complete scratch buils from incomplete plans. Anyone who's built Royal kits can attest they are not among the easier kits to work with. All forms of building/finishing come with their own unique challenges and, for me, ARFs done "to the 9s" are the most challenging and I get the greatest enjoyment from the details rather than the laying up of ribs and formers. As far as other's work...if it looks and flies good I love it!! If it only flies i like it.
If it looks and flies like a turd, I chuckle

Bring on the pics!!!!

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks Frets , the cockpit started an IMP scale interior and it was one of the best values but so wrong . All I used from that kit was the dash and the blank side panels .
I had to make all my attachements , tubes , wires , gauages , pedels , seatbelts ect . I keep a ton of junk in my shop to do all the small stuff like old shoe laces dipped in tea make the correct color .
The wheels are williams brothers vintage made to Fw190 wheels .
The retracts are the lower costing version from Sierra that do not have the inner arm , so I made a functional version . The rear seat/support on the FW190 is function so when it retracts they screw assembly moved with the canopy (in-out) on compression .
The reason why i chose the CMP FW190 was that I knew I wanted to move all the wing servos ahead of the CG , turned on there side along with the servos in the fuse.
This allowed me to achieve CH without adding any non-functional weight so common on the Fw190 .
All wing rods are 4-40 internal and support and exit in a scale manner for the ailerons and the flaps .
The Pilot was 8.5 oz now made with a blue foam interior and linked to the airlerons so his head turns with a simple servo attachment .
There are some video of the canopy and pilot on U-tube .
I am ready for paint , useing a unique theme of Gallands collection , I simply shelved the project for easier rc things , work ect but this winter it will be finished

GerKonig

And he got answered:-)

Gerry

tonyob

My experience with kits and arfs goes back many years. My interest in this hobby is all about the flying, much more so than the building. Yet, I have some great friends at my local flying club who are far more into the building. And I learn heaps and heaps from them in various building tips. To me it's a bit of a silly debate whether ARFs belong in warbirds, to me, the only answer is why wouldn't they belong?

I liked the comment:

If your club has members with a passion for kits, then by all means have 2 sets of trophies. I suspect that when kits came out, there were similar debates about kits verses own plans / designs / scratch built. Some people like to argue more than they like to build / fly. Sigh.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

I would like to see RCU provide some type of filter system so a member could filter forums. If you were not interested in ARFs you could apply a filter that removed them from all the forums. There could also be a filter to filter out scratch and kit built stuff for members that were not interested in them. I enjoy the warbird forum very much but I’d rather not wade through a bunch of ARF stuff.

I think the way that could be accomplished would to have selections that are required when a thread is started, e.g. ARF, scratch, kit, electric.

makmov

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seems to me that there is an ARF section and a Warbird section.

If it ARF specific maybe it should go into the ARF section and it is Warbird specific in the Warbird section.