NoFlaps

My Feedback: (131)

All are ARF's...
I have a personal problem with at-least 1 of these in the line up, but who am I to shoot someone's dreams down when they don't possess the financial where-with all or talents to add enough paint to make something look better than out of the box stock ?
We should all promote warbirds (even an extra 300 with invasion sripes) and our fellow modellers who like them- no matter how bad they may appear.
Perhaps the real question is should we as consumers boycott purchasing the one's that are soo bad they are an injustice to history.
My uncle has an old phrase which applies to at least one of the atached images: "You just can't polish a turd".
However, I appreciate the guys who try.
Maybe our warbird threads could be broken into more specific categories to avoid the purists from getting bent out of shape and scaring off newbies who may eventually not be propigating future warbird flyers.

Warbird sub-categories could include:

1A).Just goofing around
1B).If you squint real hard it's a "xxx"
1C).Most people call this a fighter
1D).Out of the box warbirds
1E).Basher's anonymous
1F).Warbird nuts, enter at own risk

tevans55

I agree with you NoFlaps. Perhaps another way to look at is:

Do ARF's belong in Warbirds?
It depends what your question is as to where it belongs.

If it is a small warbird ARF, perhaps it belongs in 1/2A and 1/8A airplanes
If it is a question about scale rules for a warbird ARF, perhaps it belongs in AMA Discussions
If it is a question about a warbird ARF, maybe it is best in ARF or RTF
If it is a question about the aerodynamics of a warbird ARF maybe it would be best in Aerodynamics
If it is a question about beginning with a warbird ARF maybe it would be best in Beginners
Maybe your warbird ARF is for combat then it might be best to look at RC Combat
If you crash your ARF warbird it might be best to look at Crash and Rebuild
What was the question again...Oh yeh
If your ARF warbird is a composit may it would be best in Composits Fabrication and Repair
If you are looking for a warbird ARF event it might be best to look in Events Shows and Fun Flys
Maybe you have a warbird ARF jet, you may want to look in RC Jets
or maybe you have a warbird ARF twin, you may want to post in Twins and Multi-engine RC Aircraft
If you have a warbird ARF seaplane, you may want to look at Seaplanes for an answer
If however you have a Scale RC warbird ARF you may want to consider RC Scale Aircraft
If you have a warbird ARF you may also want to consider posting in RC Warbirds and Warplanes

It really depends on the question as to where it belongs!

Happy Flying

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Pete thanks for the kind words and great video and plane there buddy .

"I am pretty fortunate that I am in a club of humble guys and I like them all. Some build, some don't. No big deal for us.
No one at our club looks down their nose at anyone whether they build or don't build. We all enjoy each others planes" whisteling death I am moving to Alabama I miss dreamland and the kind people !!!!

Whistling Death

Come on down, we like the good folks.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks Buddy !!!!

OkieRCGuy

My Feedback: (1)

My personal opinion is that a warbird can be an ARF, a kit, or a scratch build.  That part really doesn't matter to me.  My only concern is does the assembly of an ARF really constitute a build?  Maybe I'm way off base here, but I always connected building with unrolling a set of plans and working with a pile of wood.  Just my 2 cents worth.  Thanks for listening.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I think its up to the contest director but if i were running one I would have the following categorys to allow more contestants
1)scratch built
2)Kit built
3)Bashed ARF
the rest can be judges on flying and not enter a scale judgement portion of the event

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Then you have scratch built from kit plans, or built from kit cut from scratch plans. And there all kinds of ARFs, the one I bought from an experienced builder or one molded in foam. You could employ builder of the model rule, how about designer of the model rule? Lots of opportunities to create a donnybrook here.

raptureboy

This is why you have more than 1 item on the menu, it's all food but there's something for everyone. I like the IMAA way of doing it. If's it's big it flys, period. These types of threads make me dizzy[&:]

jmohn

Agreed too many variables for me.

Scratch: should be from plans (designed by owner or not) only sticks and parts from a box.
Kit: some pre-assembled parts (glass fuze, cowl and other parts pre-fabed) from plans or not. Can include full composite planes (most jets fall in this one)
ARF: covered, no plans, minor building required.

Really not sur why we need all the categories anyway? If it's a great bashed ARF why not allow them to compete with the scratch built and kits? There are not too many "original" very scaled ARFs that could compete with the big boys of the scratch world anyway.

Let's just use this:

Designed and built by owner
Designed by owner / Built by other
Designed and built by other

This would make it fair as many of the planes from scratch are owned by someone and built by others.

Then you just have a flown by owner and flown by other or "team" category.



Jeff

Oberst

It can be considered a build. Some stock ARFs need considerable work to get ready for the field. I build kits, assemble ARFs, scratch build, Bash ARFs and Bash kits so I can comment on this subject.

After doing all these things in the past I found that "Bashing" anything requires more of a skill and talent. Taking anything that's a ARF and transforming it into a masterpiece can be harder to do than just building a stock kit. When the big debate in the Forums began (ie) Kits vs ARFs- the kit people wanted any reason to find fault with a ARF owner and or builder.

In the debates some of the kit builders jumped up and down writing to everyone that people who assembled ARFs weren't true builders. But they are wrong and it is written out of personal opinion and not from experience. Why? Because of this simple fact- If they had ever built a ARF they would know that we can't just slap a ARF together and expect the plane to fly. So when they do write this opinion, it's not from experience but out dislike of other peoples choices. They don't like that the ARF market has taken over the kit market by strong leaps and bounds.

Even though most of the work is supposedly done for us, I think more so often than not I had to recover or improve the stuctual integrity. Also I can't count the times I've bought a ARF and the quality was so poor and I couldn't help from stripping it down in order to rebuild it my way. Out of about 10 ARF aircraft I've bought in the past, I think only 4 was a hit and the rest a miss in the quality department.

Even though I defend ARF, RTF owners everywhere, I do enjoy building a kit from time to time including a little scratch building when it comes to making detailed parts. But the only time I see any type of " My plane is better than yours, because mine was a kit" only happens in the RC forums. I haven't seen it at any shows or clubs, and if I ever do I'll put in a club grievance at that club. And we all know what happens to the immature pilots eventually?

Ask LDM, most of the time I get "Ol-timers say to me, " I can't believe it was a ARF " or "I had that plane, Holy Cow! I wish I had kept mine." I haven't ever heard anything negitive about anyones plane ever. And I don't believe that attitude belongs in this hobby. IMPO

I don't care if you are into 3D, Warbirds, Jets, Pattern, Scale, Gas, Glow, Electric, RTF, ARF, Kit etc. I'm happy to see you all in this hobby, and it doesn't matter what you bring to the field to fly, just as long you have something to fly.

If you choose to build kits only? Good for you, your choice. Just like the choice people have made when it comes to buying ARF aircraft. Just remember, all human beings build aircraft either it's from us or the factory. All airplanes become a ARF on the flight line.

Kit's, ARF, RTF, RTC aircraft are here to stay, it is up to us to get along and not put others down for what ever they want to own or fly. The case in point- if a Warbird is a ARF or not, is irrelevant.

The defence rests, your honor.


Pete

jmohn

Pete,

I agree there is no reason not to allow an ARF to compete with kits and scratch built, but I do think there needs to be some seperation for people that pay someone else to build an awsome scratch built kit for someone else. THere are numerous people that pay some big $ to have someone else build them a "Top Gun" class airplane from scratch and call it scratch built. That's really no differnet than an ARF buillt in another country

How abotu we do it like they do in dog shows:

Built by flier (can only be scratch built by flier, could alow for some kits if not too much of a composite plane)
Open (anyone here with more than one previous event entry): includes ARFs, Kits and scratch
Novice (first time fliers)

It would be much easier just to allow anyone to compete no matter what type of plane they started with. The only problem is that some people with lost of $ can just pay someone to build them a "Top Gun" plane and haven't done any of the work. There needs to be some place for the "average guy" to compete.



Jeff

Oberst

There is. I believe it's called Beginner Class? It's not how much a person spends on his plane that wins, it's the talent of the builder at the static event, and how well the pilot flies the plane to scale. Last time I checked, they ask the participents if they had built the plane, at least they did at the local shows I attended including wanting to know the information about the model.

I've seen planes win high scores from having a really nice detailed plane, only to loose because the flying skills were terrible. I think the judging is fair even though I might not agree with the decisions. They give everyone a chance to win in what ever class the plane is allowed to enter. And if your plane catches their attention, the higher chance you have to win.

It's about having the best looking eye candy. IMHO Don't forget about, The Pilots Choice and People's Choice awards. Let me reiterate, everyone has a chance to win.

What I don't want is to persuade changes in the judging or rules because I want a better chance of winning. What do you people want, everyone to win and reward the loosers and say everyone is a winner?

My Fokker Dr1 gets alot of attention at the fields and to me winning isn't everything if and when I decide to enter it in competition. I think people can take the beauty pageants way too seriously. I have trophies, but it hasn't put food on my table yet, or landed me a job.

It's about having fun, learning new skills and enjoying the hobby. Not about what kind of score I get at a show or what kind of plane someone else brings to the show.


Pete

jmohn

Agreed, the pilot makes the largest contributiion to the overall score. Statis score is a small part of the contest and a good pilot can score big. The last event I was at the static scores ranged from 26 to 29 so everyone was pretty close going into the flying section.


Jeff

prop wash

Pete you hit it right on the head.Lets fly.
Tom

77chickenhawk

i totally agree with you to.... well said

no one knows this was a ARF untill i tell them.lol

but its a CMP 82 in A6M5 changed to a A6M3. IMPO bashing is alot of work.. but love it

I cant even count how long it took to completely make the main doors fit and work scale, or the many hrs it took to build from scratch the entire cowl flap section and making them open and close scale.. or completely relocation the tail wheel and putting it in the scale location adding formers. Or completely relocating the cowl machine gun ports, because the location was incorrect..

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

that is nothing , you should see his P40

77chickenhawk

thank you LDM !!

here is the thread for the p-40.. my baby is in storage awaiting my return to Calli to bring it to her new home

anyone who wants to comment on it and bring it closer to the front page. or even have any questions or whatever, please do

Zero - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_90...tm.htm#9208564

P-40 - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_68..._1/key_/tm.htm

LQUAN is building one hell of a p-40 to

some people dont call this a kit because of the composite fuse and foam wings. not being a (stick kit) some say it is between a arf and a kit... all i know if i lay my hands on it.. its bound to be a huge project...lol

but in the thread as in the Zero thread, there are alot of cool tricks you could do to your own ARF or KIT.

I miss my planes

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

Man, that thing looks AWFUL! In the BESTway one could mean that is!..

Thunderbolt47

My Feedback: (8)

Ya'll don't laugh. One day while having nothing to do. (Driving in my 18 wheeler, day dreaming) I thought up some rules for an ARF class. It was based on how much changing there was from the original arf. Creativity, and a few other things I can't remember now, but I will look to see if I can find the papers in my shop if anyone is intrested.

I love to bash an ARF, I love to build kits, I love to fly both. The question of do ARFs belong in warbirds is crazy. Of coarse they do. They are WARBIRDS!!! Not everyone has time, room or the skills to spend months building a plane. If someone doesn't have the skills to build so what. I know some good Truckers that don't know sqwat about a working on a big truck, but they are some of the best driver I know. (Maybe not the best compairison but you get the idea.)

I have bought 2 planes that where built by others (kits)that had given up on them. (T/F GS Corsair and BT 82" Spitfire) They where both framed and sheeted. I finished them up and flew the heck out of both. Are these two any different than my T/F mustang that I bought RTC? (Arf without covering)

I'm currently scratch building a 162" Super Chimpmunk that has been less compicated to build than the two warbirds I "finished up" The Chippy isn't harder, it's just bigger.

Also I've just bought an old KMP OV10 bronco that I am bashing right now. Man I love this hobby. My wife hate it LOL. back to the shop!!
Later,
Kelly

MANFRED

My Feedback: (27)

Most wives hate it but they just tolerate it..... this hobby I mean.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

This is simply little mod , no contest plans lol , but it just shows you its all about your imagination .
This started out as the Nitro Planes Airfield P40 , camo , no flaps , small wheels , large gear doors , no interior ect .
I added split flaps , full interior , sliding canopy , splt functional gear doors , retract tail wheel , custom paint and less popular nose art work

77chickenhawk

that looks flippin awsum

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Thank you sir !!

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

a few more , promise I wi, just stop , this was some of the work in progress , I made an eletric tail wheel from a regular retract and made it cable steerable and it retracts with the main gear , again all in fun but just another example that ARFs will allow anyone with an imgination to still be a modeler .