Metal Project
11-02-2011, 09:04 AM
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Metal Project
I want to cover a plane with metal foil this winter. It will be my first attempt to cover with metal, and I've ordered a couple brands of foil to experiment and practice while I decide on my model. Right now, I think the Top Flite Giant P-51 ARC is the best option. I didn't pick the P-47 because I have a 60 size P-47. I thought I'd ask for additional suggestions here since there is so much more expirienced modelers here than locally.
A few rules:
1. It has to be a single engine fighter plane from the WW2 era
2. Figure the wingspan to be in the 80" to 100' range, or so.
3. Figure the weight to be about 30 lbs or so, max.
4. I won't glass anything. I'll be using Liquid Sheeting for any wood I need to cover.
5. I don't want to sick build the fuse and wings. I already have a stick project I'm working on.
I considered (or am still considering) the Comp- ARF and Airworld P-51's. They're both more than 2x as expensive as the Top Flite, but both have lots of details molded into the fuse and wings. I don't know how hard it is to cover all the detail stuff with foil, but the panel lines and rivets would be a nice addition, over all. Also, that would mean I wouldn't have to draw all the panel lines onto the model to cut the foil. Could it actually mean it would be easier to cover? Anyway, I know there has to be more options than TF, Comp ARF and Airworld for a medium sized model that I can cover with foil. Price is not a huge factor, but I'm not likely to spend much more than what the Comp-ARF or Airworld cost. Anyone want to throw some other suggestions out?
11-02-2011, 11:35 AM
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RE: Metal Project
Are you looking to cover any single engine WW2 plane with metal or are you looking for a scale subject that had the bare aluminum finish. Cause we could give you quite a few that were metal but was painted in como colors. I see you mentioned the P47 & P51, those had a few with unpainted finish and some parts bare. You could do a one of a kind subject like a ME 109 or Stuka. Just know though you may get stones thrown at you from the Axis fans...but it would be sweet. Hell I just might do one just
to stir them up.
to stir them up.
11-02-2011, 12:42 PM
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RE: Metal Project
Very basically, I'd at least like SOME bare metal finish to be visible. I'd hate to go through all that work and not have any visiblemetal to show for it, but if I painted it, I could weather it to show some metal. I just have never done anything like that before and it likely ups the skills needed by a healthy margin.
I don't mind taking a lot of time to do this work because Ireally enjoy detail work. I just am not real good at it, but I have lots of patience and a willingness to learn. The more realistic it looks, the better it is for me.This will be my first real attempt to do something like this and the more involved the project, the more intimidating it can become.
All that said, I have absolutely nothing against Axis planes and wouldn't mind doing one if I found the "right" one to do. The P-47 and P-51 are just much morecommon planes and easier to find examples to model and kits to build.
I don't mind taking a lot of time to do this work because Ireally enjoy detail work. I just am not real good at it, but I have lots of patience and a willingness to learn. The more realistic it looks, the better it is for me.This will be my first real attempt to do something like this and the more involved the project, the more intimidating it can become.
All that said, I have absolutely nothing against Axis planes and wouldn't mind doing one if I found the "right" one to do. The P-47 and P-51 are just much morecommon planes and easier to find examples to model and kits to build.
11-02-2011, 05:41 PM
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RE: Metal Project
Ok check out this site, there are thousands of good pics all you need is time to go through it. I`m sure you will find a good subject to model.
http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...ne_version=6.0
http://www.airliners.net/search/phot...ne_version=6.0
11-02-2011, 07:38 PM
#5
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RE: Metal Project
ORIGINAL: panhndl
I want to cover a plane with metal foil this winter. It will be my first attempt to cover with metal, and I've ordered a couple brands of foil to experiment and practice while I decide on my model. Right now, I think the Top Flite Giant P-51 ARC is the best option. I didn't pick the P-47 because I have a 60 size P-47. I thought I'd ask for additional suggestions here since there is so much more expirienced modelers here than locally.
A few rules:
1. It has to be a single engine fighter plane from the WW2 era
2. Figure the wingspan to be in the 80'' to 100' range, or so.
3. Figure the weight to be about 30 lbs or so, max.
4. I won't glass anything. I'll be using Liquid Sheeting for any wood I need to cover.
5. I don't want to sick build the fuse and wings. I already have a stick project I'm working on.
I considered (or am still considering) the Comp- ARF and Airworld P-51's. They're both more than 2x as expensive as the Top Flite, but both have lots of details molded into the fuse and wings. I don't know how hard it is to cover all the detail stuff with foil, but the panel lines and rivets would be a nice addition, over all. Also, that would mean I wouldn't have to draw all the panel lines onto the model to cut the foil. Could it actually mean it would be easier to cover? Anyway, I know there has to be more options than TF, Comp ARF and Airworld for a medium sized model that I can cover with foil. Price is not a huge factor, but I'm not likely to spend much more than what the Comp-ARF or Airworld cost. Anyone want to throw some other suggestions out?
I want to cover a plane with metal foil this winter. It will be my first attempt to cover with metal, and I've ordered a couple brands of foil to experiment and practice while I decide on my model. Right now, I think the Top Flite Giant P-51 ARC is the best option. I didn't pick the P-47 because I have a 60 size P-47. I thought I'd ask for additional suggestions here since there is so much more expirienced modelers here than locally.
A few rules:
1. It has to be a single engine fighter plane from the WW2 era
2. Figure the wingspan to be in the 80'' to 100' range, or so.
3. Figure the weight to be about 30 lbs or so, max.
4. I won't glass anything. I'll be using Liquid Sheeting for any wood I need to cover.
5. I don't want to sick build the fuse and wings. I already have a stick project I'm working on.
I considered (or am still considering) the Comp- ARF and Airworld P-51's. They're both more than 2x as expensive as the Top Flite, but both have lots of details molded into the fuse and wings. I don't know how hard it is to cover all the detail stuff with foil, but the panel lines and rivets would be a nice addition, over all. Also, that would mean I wouldn't have to draw all the panel lines onto the model to cut the foil. Could it actually mean it would be easier to cover? Anyway, I know there has to be more options than TF, Comp ARF and Airworld for a medium sized model that I can cover with foil. Price is not a huge factor, but I'm not likely to spend much more than what the Comp-ARF or Airworld cost. Anyone want to throw some other suggestions out?
I'm not familiar with liquid sheeting? I'm not sure if you can use Flite Metal or Aerofoil on that. Could you fill me in on what it is and how hard it makes your wood surface?
I did a TF P-51 completely in Aero Foil will all panel and rivet detail and I love how it turned out. I have contemplated doing a Ziroli or Comp ARF in the same manner. It is a fun project and rewarding. There are some FW-190 D9 schemes that half the bottom of the wing is exposed aluminum, but I think you were wanting a plane that had more aluminum exposed.
11-03-2011, 05:47 AM
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RE: Metal Project
"Ok check out this site, there are thousands of good pics all you need is time to go through it. I`m sure you will find a good subject to model."
Thanks! That is a lot of of planes!
"I'm not familiar with liquid sheeting? I'm not sure if you can use Flite Metal or Aerofoil on that. Could you fill me in on what it is and how hard it makes your wood surface?
I did a TF P-51 completely in Aero Foil will all panel and rivet detail and I love how it turned out. I have contemplated doing a Ziroli or Comp ARF in the same manner. It is a fun project and rewarding. There are some FW-190 D9 schemes that half the bottom of the wing is exposed aluminum, but I think you were wanting a plane that had more aluminum exposed."
Liquid Sheeting is available from Wowplanes. http://www.wowplanes.com/. It puts a hard shell on the outside of the wood for protection and durability. I think that it will be smooth and strong enough for flite metal or aero foil to stick to well. I've ordered a bit of each type of foil to test on some LS. I'll have more answers soon.
Actually, I'd be pleased with just some exhaust areas being exposed metal. Half the bottom wing would be plenty. I just want to expirement with and all types of finish on the model.
"If it were me, i'd go with the Comp-Arf P51. Its pricey, but worth it, as the airworld kits typically have little (if any) directions, and the comp-arf is a great flier"
Yes, the downside of the Comp-ARF kit, for me, is weight. It is going to stretch into that 30-40 lb range. I'm certain I can keep the Airworld kit down in the mid 20's. Both of those kits have a lot of detail molded into the fiber. A question I'd have is if this actually makes it harder or easier. I could see where covering all that detail correctly could by tough, but I could see where adding it later could actually be more difficult.
Thanks! That is a lot of of planes!
"I'm not familiar with liquid sheeting? I'm not sure if you can use Flite Metal or Aerofoil on that. Could you fill me in on what it is and how hard it makes your wood surface?
I did a TF P-51 completely in Aero Foil will all panel and rivet detail and I love how it turned out. I have contemplated doing a Ziroli or Comp ARF in the same manner. It is a fun project and rewarding. There are some FW-190 D9 schemes that half the bottom of the wing is exposed aluminum, but I think you were wanting a plane that had more aluminum exposed."
Liquid Sheeting is available from Wowplanes. http://www.wowplanes.com/. It puts a hard shell on the outside of the wood for protection and durability. I think that it will be smooth and strong enough for flite metal or aero foil to stick to well. I've ordered a bit of each type of foil to test on some LS. I'll have more answers soon.
Actually, I'd be pleased with just some exhaust areas being exposed metal. Half the bottom wing would be plenty. I just want to expirement with and all types of finish on the model.
"If it were me, i'd go with the Comp-Arf P51. Its pricey, but worth it, as the airworld kits typically have little (if any) directions, and the comp-arf is a great flier"
Yes, the downside of the Comp-ARF kit, for me, is weight. It is going to stretch into that 30-40 lb range. I'm certain I can keep the Airworld kit down in the mid 20's. Both of those kits have a lot of detail molded into the fiber. A question I'd have is if this actually makes it harder or easier. I could see where covering all that detail correctly could by tough, but I could see where adding it later could actually be more difficult.
11-03-2011, 06:57 AM
#8
RE: Metal Project
The downside I see to your 80"-100" size range is that it also encompasses a large range of aircraft weights as well.. Comp-ARF P-51s are indeed some of the nicest work out there and one fella said previously that they fly great. If you are looking to stay under the 30lb weight and even into the mid-20s, I would probably say that there isn't an aircraft in the 90-100" class that will fit that criterion. I am curious why a weight limit rather than a physical size limit? Perhaps a nagging back injury doesn't allow you to pick up something that large and awkward?
11-03-2011, 07:16 AM
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RE: Metal Project
Japanese WWII aircraft are notorious for poor paint adhesion and subsequent paint erosion! If you could find a suitable arf (that's what you want, correct?) that would be a neat project!
11-03-2011, 09:40 AM
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RE: Metal Project
Japanese WWII aircraft are notorious for poor paint adhesion and subsequent paint erosion! If you could find a suitable arf (that's what you want, correct?) that would be a neat project!
i have to admit that I was really thinking about the ESM Japanese Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate. Love the plane, but really, I'm wanting a project rather than just another plane. I don't know of any others to model.
The downside I see to your 80"-100" size range is that it also encompasses a large range of aircraft weights as well.. Comp-ARF P-51s are indeed some of the nicest work out there and one fella said previously that they fly great. If you are looking to stay under the 30lb weight and even into the mid-20s, I would probably say that there isn't an aircraft in the 90-100" class that will fit that criterion. I am curious why a weight limit rather than a physical size limit? Perhaps a nagging back injury doesn't allow you to pick up something that large and awkward?
The weight limit is pretty arbitrary. At my local field, I'm concerned about some high lines and the length of our runway. Additionally, The size is such that it wouldn't fit my current trailer without modification to the rig. Not a deal breaker, but it is a concern. I have to admit that the Comp-ARF and Airworld models are both VERY tempting. All the detail already molded in...is nice.
i have to admit that I was really thinking about the ESM Japanese Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate. Love the plane, but really, I'm wanting a project rather than just another plane. I don't know of any others to model.
The downside I see to your 80"-100" size range is that it also encompasses a large range of aircraft weights as well.. Comp-ARF P-51s are indeed some of the nicest work out there and one fella said previously that they fly great. If you are looking to stay under the 30lb weight and even into the mid-20s, I would probably say that there isn't an aircraft in the 90-100" class that will fit that criterion. I am curious why a weight limit rather than a physical size limit? Perhaps a nagging back injury doesn't allow you to pick up something that large and awkward?
The weight limit is pretty arbitrary. At my local field, I'm concerned about some high lines and the length of our runway. Additionally, The size is such that it wouldn't fit my current trailer without modification to the rig. Not a deal breaker, but it is a concern. I have to admit that the Comp-ARF and Airworld models are both VERY tempting. All the detail already molded in...is nice.
11-03-2011, 10:04 AM
#11
RE: Metal Project
Could you share some field specs with us? Maybe some of the other guys out there would have some experience with similar sized fields with the larger airframes we have as the topic of discussion and could shed some light on what your options may be!
11-03-2011, 08:59 PM
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RE: Metal Project
panhndl:
If you are still looking for metal material for your plane here is a web site showing a product called (Filte Metal). The web site is www.waltsrchanger.com , It also shows how to apply the material to the planes surface. the plane being worked on is an aerotech1/5 scale P-51 Mustang. Sadly they are no longer being manufactured. I also have one that is very detailed.
Rick F
If you are still looking for metal material for your plane here is a web site showing a product called (Filte Metal). The web site is www.waltsrchanger.com , It also shows how to apply the material to the planes surface. the plane being worked on is an aerotech1/5 scale P-51 Mustang. Sadly they are no longer being manufactured. I also have one that is very detailed.
Rick F
11-04-2011, 12:21 PM
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RE: Metal Project
ORIGINAL: Mk23socom
Could you share some field specs with us? Maybe some of the other guys out there would have some experience with similar sized fields with the larger airframes we have as the topic of discussion and could shed some light on what your options may be!
Could you share some field specs with us? Maybe some of the other guys out there would have some experience with similar sized fields with the larger airframes we have as the topic of discussion and could shed some light on what your options may be!
I learned at a small field. It has 4 runways and back in the days before you were allowed to go out on the lines by yourself you had to qualify on all the runways. Meaning land and take off on all 4. They all were a challenge especially the short runway. Many people came to our field and refused to fly because it was too small for them. As a result of that field I learned to land wheels on the ground before the plane get in front of me. Its a habit I have to this day where ever I go, wheels on the ground before it gets to me. look at most videos, guys still have their planes in the air flying past when they are landing. You know why? Its that big field, endless runway syndrome.
Try that at my old field and you will be in the bushes or trees. The #1 spot is half way of the runway. The #4 spot is literally at the last 25 30 feet. The short runway is about 60 feet. Trees and bushes at all ends. Guys with 40 size Sticks could not fly there.
11-04-2011, 12:27 PM
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RE: Metal Project
This is a winter shot of the field. See those houses at the end of the runway. That was the reason for the qualifying process.
The dark patches at the ends of the long was the newbies cheating, trying to lengthen the long. It still kick their butts
http://www.gerritsenbeach.net/tag/rcsmp/
The dark patches at the ends of the long was the newbies cheating, trying to lengthen the long. It still kick their butts
http://www.gerritsenbeach.net/tag/rcsmp/
11-04-2011, 04:31 PM
#16
RE: Metal Project
Just another option to the foil. Flight Skinz from Solo Props. Its the thinnest foil out there.
Sold by the yard or roll, comes in 6" and 12" wide rolls that are 50 yards long
Price $40 for the 6" roll
$76 for the 12" roll
Here is my Meister P-47 that is completely foiled with Flight Skinz with the front half being painted over the foil.
Sold by the yard or roll, comes in 6" and 12" wide rolls that are 50 yards long
Price $40 for the 6" roll
$76 for the 12" roll
Here is my Meister P-47 that is completely foiled with Flight Skinz with the front half being painted over the foil.
11-04-2011, 05:24 PM
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RE: Metal Project
Ok, sorry for taking so long to get the field specs. The actual runway is about 40' x 400' with dirt over/under run strips of about 186' on the north end and 135' on the south end. The entire field is about 2685' north to south by 1388' east to westwith power lines 1160' from the north end of the runway and 1130' from the south end of the runway. Additionally, there are power lines on the west side of the field approx 244' from the runway.Theprevailing wind is out of thesouthwestso I take off going to the south towards the closer power lines. The lines on the north side are your generic poles of about 30' or so and the ones on the south side are the bigger dual poles of maybe 50'.
The coord's are below if you wanted to look it up.
Lat: 36* 42' 52.98" N
Long: 101* 27' 20.58" W
It sort of seems silly I was worried about the field being too small for a plane like this when I look at the overhead of the field, but I watched a Comp-ARF take off on youtube, and it had a pretty long take off roll. And the field feels smaller than its size when you're flying one of the bigger/faster planes.
Anyway, I'm still leaning towards the Top Flite, but the Comp ARF is really tempting. I like the Airworld, but there is so little information on it, I'm leery of buying a kit that is so expensive with so little in direction with the kit maker being in Germany. Besides, I could run a Kolm inline twin 100 CC if wanted in the Comp ARF.
The coord's are below if you wanted to look it up.
Lat: 36* 42' 52.98" N
Long: 101* 27' 20.58" W
It sort of seems silly I was worried about the field being too small for a plane like this when I look at the overhead of the field, but I watched a Comp-ARF take off on youtube, and it had a pretty long take off roll. And the field feels smaller than its size when you're flying one of the bigger/faster planes.
Anyway, I'm still leaning towards the Top Flite, but the Comp ARF is really tempting. I like the Airworld, but there is so little information on it, I'm leery of buying a kit that is so expensive with so little in direction with the kit maker being in Germany. Besides, I could run a Kolm inline twin 100 CC if wanted in the Comp ARF.
11-04-2011, 05:30 PM
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RE: Metal Project
Just another option to the foil. Flight Skinz from Solo Props. Its the thinnest foil out there.
Sold by the yard or roll, comes in 6" and 12" wide rolls that are 50 yards long
Price $40 for the 6" roll
$76 for the 12" roll
Here is my Meister P-47 that is completely foiled with Flight Skinz with the front half being painted over the foil.
Nice plane. I love that scheme. I'd taken note that Solo sold foil, and compared it to the Meister product. Both were listed as the same thickness so I just bought the Meister product. I figured that if I prefered the thinner foil over the flite metal, I could buy a bit of the Solo stuff to test vs. the Meister product.
Just out of curiousity, is there an advantage of thinner vs. thicker besides weight and possibly toughness?
Sold by the yard or roll, comes in 6" and 12" wide rolls that are 50 yards long
Price $40 for the 6" roll
$76 for the 12" roll
Here is my Meister P-47 that is completely foiled with Flight Skinz with the front half being painted over the foil.
Nice plane. I love that scheme. I'd taken note that Solo sold foil, and compared it to the Meister product. Both were listed as the same thickness so I just bought the Meister product. I figured that if I prefered the thinner foil over the flite metal, I could buy a bit of the Solo stuff to test vs. the Meister product.
Just out of curiousity, is there an advantage of thinner vs. thicker besides weight and possibly toughness?
11-04-2011, 05:50 PM
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RE: Metal Project
ORIGINAL: panhndl
Just out of curiousity, is there an advantage of thinner vs. thicker besides weight and possibly toughness?
Just out of curiousity, is there an advantage of thinner vs. thicker besides weight and possibly toughness?
11-05-2011, 05:13 AM
#21
RE: Metal Project
ORIGINAL: panhndl
Just another option to the foil. Flight Skinz from Solo Props. Its the thinnest foil out there.
Sold by the yard or roll, comes in 6'' and 12'' wide rolls that are 50 yards long
Price $40 for the 6'' roll
$76 for the 12'' roll
Here is my Meister P-47 that is completely foiled with Flight Skinz with the front half being painted over the foil.
Nice plane. I love that scheme. I'd taken note that Solo sold foil, and compared it to the Meister product. Both were listed as the same thickness so I just bought the Meister product. I figured that if I prefered the thinner foil over the flite metal, I could buy a bit of the Solo stuff to test vs. the Meister product.
Just out of curiousity, is there an advantage of thinner vs. thicker besides weight and possibly toughness?
Just another option to the foil. Flight Skinz from Solo Props. Its the thinnest foil out there.
Sold by the yard or roll, comes in 6'' and 12'' wide rolls that are 50 yards long
Price $40 for the 6'' roll
$76 for the 12'' roll
Here is my Meister P-47 that is completely foiled with Flight Skinz with the front half being painted over the foil.
Nice plane. I love that scheme. I'd taken note that Solo sold foil, and compared it to the Meister product. Both were listed as the same thickness so I just bought the Meister product. I figured that if I prefered the thinner foil over the flite metal, I could buy a bit of the Solo stuff to test vs. the Meister product.
Just out of curiousity, is there an advantage of thinner vs. thicker besides weight and possibly toughness?
11-05-2011, 08:08 AM
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RE: Metal Project
I have built close to a dozen models using Aluminum foil and found that the thicker material is much easier to work with.
You did a wonderful job on the Airacorbra. The problem with the Flite Metal is just getting it, if what I hear is correct. I've ordered it and we'll see how long it takes to show up. I'm going to begin testing products and applications next week and if the flite metal doesn't come in, it doesn't get tested. If it shows up, then I can play with it some.
You did a wonderful job on the Airacorbra. The problem with the Flite Metal is just getting it, if what I hear is correct. I've ordered it and we'll see how long it takes to show up. I'm going to begin testing products and applications next week and if the flite metal doesn't come in, it doesn't get tested. If it shows up, then I can play with it some.
11-05-2011, 08:27 AM
#23
RE: Metal Project
ORIGINAL: panhndl
I have built close to a dozen models using Aluminum foil and found that the thicker material is much easier to work with.
You did a wonderful job on the Airacorbra. The problem with the Flite Metal is just getting it, if what I hear is correct. I've ordered it and we'll see how long it takes to show up. I'm going to begin testing products and applications next week and if the flite metal doesn't come in, it doesn't get tested. If it shows up, then I can play with it some.
I have built close to a dozen models using Aluminum foil and found that the thicker material is much easier to work with.
You did a wonderful job on the Airacorbra. The problem with the Flite Metal is just getting it, if what I hear is correct. I've ordered it and we'll see how long it takes to show up. I'm going to begin testing products and applications next week and if the flite metal doesn't come in, it doesn't get tested. If it shows up, then I can play with it some.
If you email me your address I'll send out a sample for you to try.
[email protected]
11-05-2011, 10:38 AM
#25
RE: Metal Project
I have been working with the flite-metal on a BVM F-100 and what i have found is that i have had to call Ed every time i placed an order to let him know that i really needed the stuff to keep going. Every time i did that my order was sent the next day.