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  1. #26

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    I recently recieved a set of the Wingspan Rotating Retracts. After installing them in a Great Planes P40 60 size warbird, I noticed a play in the left/right movement in the york (the mechanism where the strut sets in). Is there any adjustment to be made to tighten this play?

    I also installed a 6v battery per your instruction sheet and now my retracts dont work at all. Ck'd the battery and it is fully charged - we did get a electrical burning smell.

  2. #27

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    Thats ok. I'm sure that he will respond and address your issue. How do you like your P40? I wanted one also when I first saw it. It looks nice, but I could'nt justify buying that with having mine also. I have a Sky Shark 50cc P40 that I havnt built yet. How does your fly?

  3. #28
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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    I just retrofitted my H9 Hellcat wing. Removed the Lados. My Corsair and Hellcat both have Lados and both are nose-overs looking for a place to happen. So out with the Lados and in with the Wingspans.

    And second thing I noticed was how much play there is in them. Looking at the play in the rotation mechanism, it looks like it's due to huge tolerances. Opening up the things voids the warranty, but it looks like there is so much play that you could use aluminum tubing to shim the stud that so badly fits the slot that cams it.

    Gonna try it and see how it works. There surely is a lot of slop in them puppies.
    Good flying wit ya today

  4. #29

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    Hello Rock. Have you started your installation of the WingSpans yet?? Although I do not own either of those birds, I have flown with them both. I can confirm the nose-over problems that you are having. Thats one of the main reason for wanting a retract that extent further than the 90 degrees of typical retracts. I remember a fellow with the H9 Hellcat who couldnt even get through the rollout on takeoff because it would plant itself whenever power was added. What I learned was that power must be added slowly with full up elevator applied. As the ground speed increased, you had to relax the elevator until rotation speed was reached to get the tail in the air, then reapply slight up elevator again to get airborn. It all adds up to a big pain in the butt! Everything was exponentially worse when it came time to land. Short of adding a ski to the front of the plane, 100 degree retracts were my next choice. Granted, my P40 isnt as prone to nose diving as it once was, I still wanted better ground handleing.

  5. #30
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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    ORIGINAL: flutter caused it

    Hello Rock. Have you started your installation of the WingSpans yet?? Although I do not own either of those birds, I have flown with them both. I can confirm the nose-over problems that you are having. Thats one of the main reason for wanting a retract that extent further than the 90 degrees of typical retracts. I remember a fellow with the H9 Hellcat who couldnt even get through the rollout on takeoff because it would plant itself whenever power was added. What I learned was that power must be added slowly with full up elevator applied. As the ground speed increased, you had to relax the elevator until rotation speed was reached to get the tail in the air, then reapply slight up elevator again to get airborn. It all adds up to a big pain in the butt! Everything was exponentially worse when it came time to land. Short of adding a ski to the front of the plane, 100 degree retracts were my next choice. Granted, my P40 isnt as prone to nose diving as it once was, I still wanted better ground handleing.

    Yeah, the Lados are out and the Wingspans are in. I had to narrow the mounting flanges on the Wingspans and trim out room along the sides a bit. Also had to chisel away some of the plywood inside the holes to get the taller units down in the wing. The Wingspans are taller, wider and longer.

    I've got H9's Hellcat, Thunderbolt, Corsair and had a couple of other brand Warhawks. All of them were very tippy with the mfg's recommended CG. I would bet money the way most people balance "a little noseheavy to be safer", that all of mine WOULD HAVE HAD awful ground handling had I been one that did that. I know better how little value there is fudging the CG forward and how it screws most Warbirds. All of mine are halfway decent taxiing. I compute a CG range and start at the middle to "be safe" and usually move it back after the maiden. All of them are halfway decent and no real drama to taxi except when the grass is extra tall or the field is pocked with holes. As for rolling in the throttle on takeoff, I do that with everything. It's amazing how many people think firewalling it is the way to takeoff. They also usually have the CG too far forward. whatever.......

    I fly off of grass and it's often too long or too thick. I fly whenever I feel like it, however. Almost everything I fly is conventional, and none but the warbirds have any nose-over in them at all. Time to get the same out of my warbirds. I've got my fingers crossed the Wingspans will stand up. I know the 100 degrees will help a ton. Just waiting for a decent flying day to give the Hellcat and it's new Wingspans a test. If it does what I expect, the Corsair is next.

    If you look at side views (not easy to find) of both the Corsair and Hellcat it's clear they both had forward rake on the gear struts. Why on earth the people who bring out new and improved units like these new electric retracts didn't notice the rake is beyond my comprehension. It's amazing how such an important detail could possibly have been not noticed. Also amazing how they didn't seem to notice the arc needed by a Spitfire or 109 is quite different than a P47 or P51, and none of them are going to be good with 90 degrees. It's good somebody finally noticed, but so far nobody has won the prize for best all-round.

    whatever..........
    Good flying wit ya today

  6. #31

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    It appears that we both followed the same path as far as the CG goes. I remember starting out the 18.5 ounces of lead attached to my firewall to get the CG in the middle of the recommended range. To give some perspective, thats 1 1/2 cans of Pepsi (I dont drink) bolted to the nose. Not only was the ground handleing terrible, but inverted flight was aweful, and took entirely to much up-stick. After each flying day, I would loosen the cowl and remove the lead, one ounce at a time. Since I never did fly the P40 on a regular basis, I would write myself a note concerning the CG change and place the note inside the fuse where I was sure to see it again while mounting the wing the next time she flew. Each time, the plane flew and taxied better. That all worked fine until a few months ago. After takeing off, I noticed something fall from the plane. I could'nt figure out what it was. I still had landing gear, the engine was still running, and the plane was still flying. Atfer a few seconds, I begin to wonder if I was mistaken about seeing something fall. I didnt worry about it. It was one of the best flying days for the warbird. It had great climb, pretty good inverted with little push on the stick, and slowed down without tipping and noseing over. I didnt realize till after I got home that my entire lead system is what had fallen off. I attached my lead to a seperate small piece of ply, and used blind nuts through the fire wall to attach it. I did use locktight on the screws, but that was years ago. I guess being in such close proxemity to the hot engine eventually loosened the mounting screws to the lead weight. When checking the CG, I was a good two inches behind what Horizon recommended. That is where I've keep it, even today. Now Im not recommending that anybody not follow the manufacturers recommended CG point, but the P40 (and maybe the other H9 warbirds) all seem to fly very nose heavy with the recommended CG. In all, my P40 has encountered no real damage since it was new. The cowl bottom has a couple of very minor scratches, with no cracks. Both wing tips are scuff free, and I have never had a complete summersult where the rudder top ended up on the ground. Although my plane is around 6 years old, it still looks new, and I enjoy flying it. I too couldnt understand why manufactures would not develop a retract with more than 90 degrees. When these WingSpans came out, I thought they may be just the thing I was looking for, as any forward rake at all would only help improve the ground handleing. Please keep me posted on your install, and give us a flight report. You may get yours in the air before mine is done. These last few weeks of nursing school is taking most of my time.
    I think that in designing a retract, or just about anything for that matter, building things straight (90 degrees) is a much simpler process than is designing something beyond straight (100 degrees). No longer are you working with parallel lines. I think that is what kept us from having anything for the past 50 years from anything more than 90 degrees.
    Thanks.

  7. #32
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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    You got good reasons to lose the bet. I got good reasons to win it. I look out every window I walk past when the weather is lousy and I have something really kewl to test fly. And I've been looking out for days now.

    Your story about the lead illustrates something I preach all the time. CG location is worth checking, but it really isn't a fly-or-die location. Way too many RCers have way too much "fear of CG" in them. The lead fell out of your plane when it was in the air and you didn't notice anything unusual afterward. I've seen lead come off tails a lot of times. Same deal.

    I'll be posting how the Wingspans worked and how the plane flew just as soon as this lousy weather blows past.
    Good flying wit ya today

  8. #33

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    I ordered the Wing Span standard 85 degree retracts. Received them after only a few days. I installed them in a CMP Zero replacing undependable air retracts. Before and while installing I used an old Futaba 17ch receiver and transmitter and a 4.8 battery. Seemed to work fine. After I got them installed in the wing, I took all my air system stuff out of the fuslage and installed Y connector and extensions. Zero has Futaba R617RS 2.4 receiver with 6V 2200 mha Nimha battery. After all finished, they ran about twice and then real slow and quit. One was hot and smelled like something burning. Other is now intermittent and very undependable. Can't even get the strut out of the totally failed one so sending all back strut included. They looked good, and seemed strong. There is some slop in them but no worse than the Robart 700RS that they are replacing. It looks like they may not be able to take 6V. Also mine were the "fast" ones. Here are some pictures for what they are worth. You can see they are deeper with larger flange that the Robarts. They would be really great if the worked. Also you can see one didn't have two of the mounting holes. No biggie, just drilled them myself. Sending them back tomorrow.
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  9. #34

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    You were running a 5 cell nicad? Did you have struts attached? And if so, how heavy are the struts and wheel combination? I have cycled mine numerous times, but only with a 4 cell 4.8 volt pack. And even at this voltage, I have yet to install the complete strut and wheel assembly. Im trying to determine if these failures that have been mentioned are occuring with only a 5 cell pack, or is it something else?

  10. #35

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    I talked to Mike Kramer at Wing Span and told him about the problem. He says this is a problem they just discovered last weekend and they already have a fix for it. Says when they get retracts back, it will only take him about 30 mins. to fix and send them back. I'll keep you posted. Only smoked one. He says not caused by 6V, but a circuit board problem. Beyond me. Hope the fix works.

  11. #36

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    In answer to question, I had strut in 7/16" Robarts with fork, 4" Robart wheels. Mike says was not the weight. We will see.

  12. #37

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    Thats good news. Mike's a good guy. I've been Studying for a test this Wed, and a 50 page typed case study hasnt left much time for my retract install. I should be able to get back to it Thursday.

  13. #38

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    My name is Tom and I live in Vancouver,Wa. Imagine my surprise when I Googled "Wingspan Retracts" and got this forum as I am reworking an H9 P40 this winter and am researching all my materials.

    I am an "intermediate" flyer, started too late in life to ever be an expert. I fly 40 and 60 size Sticks as well as a Four Star 40 every week-end, all powered by Saitos.

    Three years ago, I received a H9 Spitfire for Christmas which is probably my favorite plane. It has been severly crashed once and rebuilt which is when I discovered my interest in "scale". Next Christmas came a H9 P47 and then a H9 B25. Except for the B25, all powered by Saitos.

    I have been looking for a winter project and decided I need a P40 to trick out. I really like H9 but of course they no longer make the P40. I have looked and looked and then found a club member with a H9 P40. He was the second owner and it was like brand new. It has a OS 91 inverted with a very desirable Keloe exhaust. With this conbination, there are NO holes in the cowl except for 12 exhaust pipes and the high end needle valve. The plane was on it's fifth pair of factory retracts which were/are broken.

    I quickly bought the plane because it was in such good condition, no longer available, and had the Keloe exhaust. I quickly moved the two tail-feather servos forward to the "normal" position and filled in the holes at the rear.

    There is another very long forem on RC Universe about building this plane which I have read numerous times. People talk over and over about the tendancy of the plane to nose over on take-off and landings. Most everybody agreed the H9 blew it on the CG and that about one-half inch farther aft is much better. With the aft survos moved forward and a 2200 MA battery placed aft under those servos, I CG'd at about 3.5 inches with no weight added to the plane. I flew it 5 times that Sat. with no nose-overs on take off's and 5 nose-overs on landings. It flys great at 3.5 inches CG and no added weight. I am hoping that 100 degree retracts will help on the landing. I may experiment moving CG farther aft.

    The plane has now been covered in Top Flight flat clear to take away the shine. I now want to add Wingspan retracts(how lucky to stumble on to this forum), add a three blade prop, and make an opening cockpit canopy and trick out the cockpit. I have been slowly learning how to use an airbrush to weather and detail the planes. That really makes them neat.

    I promise my next post will be very brief, but I have one , nope two questions. After I buy the Wingspan Retracts, I then need "struts" or "oleos"?? Where do I buy them, what size,model, or part number?

    Thanks for reading my post....next one WILL be brief.

  14. #39

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    Glad to see another P40 in the works. Dont worry about the long posts. As long as it's informative, or at least interesting, we enjoy reading them. There is no need to purchase struts for the wingspan retracts. They will accept your stock wire landing gear right from the box. If using the stock gear, the only thing required is that you cut off about 1/2 inch of the strut. The wound spring may be actually desirable to help absorb some of the shock encountered while landing. I also have a set of oleos that will be going in my P40 this go-round. There are a bunch of different companys that produce them; however, the set I purchased came from MagnumRC. They are "keyed" internally to inhibit any rotation, and therfore, do not have the accociated scale looking "scissors" type mechanism built into them. I got through my my last regular test for nursing today, and have just the finals left. I plan to pick up where I left of on my build tomorrow, so keep in touch. Thanks, Richard.

  15. #40

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    Just got Hanger 9 P 40 and installed a DLE 20 in it what a joy to fly and talk about fuel economy. Love it

  16. #41

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    Any pictures?

  17. #42

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    I am ordering a set of these retracts from Wingspan for my P40 and am looking for information about Oleos for the retracts.

    I am not sure how they would attach to the retracts, what diameter and length they should be and the best source. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

  18. #43
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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    ORIGINAL: Ford34tom

    I am ordering a set of these retracts from Wingspan for my P40 and am looking for information about Oleos for the retracts.

    I am not sure how they would attach to the retracts, what diameter and length they should be and the best source. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

    Right now, one of the best deals for struts are the Lado ones. They're sold in the US by MagnumRC.

    Struts connect to the retracts by using a short section of piano wire that's the same size as the fixed wire gear comes on the model. The retracts are often fitted with that same OEM gear after it's cut to fit in the retracts by modelers who don't want to spring for struts.

    Robart also markets a strut that's about the right size. It does have to be cut to fit and requires drilling and tapping. I've used them on all my H9 planes and they're very good, but more expensive. The Lado's are sold in different lengths. You might give Magnum a call to discuss what length you'll need. You won't have to do anything to them other than install them. But you will need to know which ones fit your model.
    Good flying wit ya today

  19. #44

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    Yes, the struts from Magnum RC seem to be popular. I too just ordered a set a few days ago to install with the WingSpan retracts. They offer various sizes, and determining the length is easy. The struts are meassured from the end of the strut, to the middle of the axle- Easy! This will be my second set from Magnum RC. What is worth noting about these struts is that they are "keyed", which means that there is no noticable play when trying to rotate the axle from side to side. Many struts have far to much play is this area, which allows for toe-in, or toe-out changes. To mount the strut, a small piece of 3/32 rod is inserted between the retract and the strut, and secured with set-screws. The finished result is a clean looking install, as the small rod is not visable. This also acts as a shock absorbing mechanism, as a hard landing will likely tweak the small 3/32 rod, and possibly save your expensive gear or wing.

  20. #45

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    Very good info, thank you both. I looked at the Magnum web, did not see any struts with the "scissor" mechanisiam attached? Do they not offer that?

  21. #46
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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    ORIGINAL: Ford34tom

    Very good info, thank you both. I looked at the Magnum web, did not see any struts with the ''scissor'' mechanisiam attached? Do they not offer that?
    Lado struts don't have the scissors or torque link. I've used Robart PN 650 struts for all my H9 warbirds. Adds tremendously to the realism. MOF, I can't see using struts that don't have the torque links.

    As for the keyed struts not allowing tire scrub to show up play, the problem is that struts aren't the only source of that. The Winspan rotating retracts are horrible the amount of play the rotating mechanism has in it. My Robarts' links don't allow any that I've noticed, but the Hellcat with it's Wingspans are awful. Got no idea if it'll affect the ground handling as those Wingspans wouldn't raise the gear on 4.8 volts. Got a 6.0V pack today, will try that tomorrow. The Lados didn't break a sweat swinging that tire/strut/door. Things never are really plug and play are they.

    This picture shows the Wingspans extended. Comparing where the Lado placed the wheels and where the Wingspans put them..... The Wingspans still don't get the axle to the LE. But look at the picture and think about how the plane would taxi if the axle wasn't quite up to the tire in the picture. The Lados axle was a little over half the tire diameter aft the Wingspan location. I look forward to the first taxi tests with the Wingspans.
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    Good flying wit ya today

  22. #47
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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    BTW, about the torque link looking good............

    P40s don't have gear doors that come down with the wheel. They really look better with the torque link, but not to most people who aren't scale nuts. The Warhawk's links point aft and don't show above the wheel.

    The P47 links point forward and actually show above the wheel. The Corsair points forward and same deal about showing.

    What helps make the Robarts look more authentic is the torque link and the heavier cuff that is part of the link hardware. Makes the gear look beefier and less "model like".
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    Good flying wit ya today

  23. #48
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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    After reading this thread and others about my option for rotating retracts, i'm confused on what to get for my 60 size Hellcat and TF corsair. Both the WS and Robarts seem to have issues. I don't know whatto do now...
    Alan

    CORSAIR Brotherhood # 90

  24. #49

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    It seems as though there are "issues" with all of the electric retracts.I still think they will be the retract of the future for RC.

    Rock, you are going to try shimming your Wingspans to reduce the side play. Let us know the results of that please.

    Does anybody know much about the E-Flight electrics? There seems to be a bit of buzz about them lately. I understand the Robart will have a series of electric retracts out after the first of the year. Wonder if they will be any better??

  25. #50

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    RE: WingSpan Retracts into a Hangar 9 P-40

    Hope the pictures loaded
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