M_Callahan

No problem Jim.

The Glenn Torrence fabric is kind of labor intensive, but the results are worth it.

Mike

billberry189

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Jim,

The only thing the photos do not show are the crosses on the bottom of the bottom wing. The scheme came from a Sterling Fokker D-VII kit from 1975. I'll have to search for the plans to obtain a little history on the paint scheme. I moved recently and everything is in somewhat of a disarray. As I remember though, it is an official paint schemefrom WW-I.

Bill

billberry189

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hrrcflyer,

That would be S I M L A . Now imagine if you will the Simla with a red, black, and white paint scheme a la Ed Kazmirski with a mirror like finish, hmmmmmmmmmmm......................

Bill

hrrcflyer

OK, OK So my fingers are faster than my brain. What can I say..............LOL All of this typing and reading about the DVII is starting to get to me. I just wish I had the talent to build one and do it justice......

David

WinterHawke

Not sure if this would meet your needs, but you could always do a movie-based colorscheme if you wanted.

Here's a show of the gaggle from "von Richthofen and Brown:



Not very accurate historically, but the planes did look pretty cool!!

Best regards,

Lee McD

bipeflr

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WinterHawke, I like the red and blue with maltese crosses. But cant see if the wings are all blue or not would love to see diffrent views if anyone has any. Thanks for the post. Jim

jeffEE

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I never saw the movie, but the black and blue Pfaltz looks great. I do think the DVIIs look funny with the prop shaft on the top half of the cowling. but that is not what this thread is about. I agree with a post someone else wrote. There are many planes that were never captured in photos. So who is too say yours would be wrong. I went with that idea. The Aircraft of the Marine Field Jasta I in 1918 were all painted in black and yellow to a degree. But only the commanders plane is ever seen in pictures. I went with my idea of a plane from that unit. I have no idea if it ever was done in full scale, but I like it so there it is.

MerlinV

I was waiting for someone to point out that the DVII was not introduced to Front Line fighting until after the Red Baron had met his demise.

But you are right, that's not what this thread is about.

I like the boldness of the painted schemes (in primary colours), but for mine, the wings have to be lozenge top and bottom.

Cheers,

Hugh

Oberst

Very true. The Fokker DVII replaced the Fokker Dr1. Some like Jacobs from Jasta 7 held on to their Fokker Dr1's until given a direct order to move into the Fokker DVII. Jacob's liked his Fokker Dr1 because he replaced the engine with a British captured Camel Engine and prop giving his Fokker Dr1 more speed, power and manouverability.

The Fokker DVII and Albatros DV (and later DVa) were to replace the Fokker DR1 and Albatros D.III respectively. The Fokker DVIII came on the scene to eventually replace the Fokker DVII, but due to wing and strut failures (as they had with the Albatros DVa (made by Fokker - the OFW didn't have as much of an issue with this) they grounded the Fokker DVIII only to advance the devolpment of the Fokker DVII. Just before the war ended, they developed the Fokker DVIIF and it became the most deadliest aircraft in the German arsenal. The Fokker DVIII was cleared from its grounding one week before the war ended and that too became a incredible machine, even though most German pilots didn't care for it and only used it for testing. Only one kill was made in a Fokker DVIII - the same week the war had ended.

In my opinion, the Albatros D.III and the Fokker DVIIF were the best aircraft in WWI all around. The Fokker Dr1, I believe, in its short glory to fame also was a good aircraft in the right hands, but they were too slow and not pilot friendly. However, they were the most manouverable aircraft ever built in WWI and had a incredible climb rate for an aircraft for that time.

Hey, do you think it would be scale if you took your Fokker DVIIF and hung it for 30 seconds like they do in 3D matches? You bet! The Fokker DVIIF could hang for 30 seconds when they hit the turbo charger above 2000 meters, making the the Fokker DVIIF the most deadliest aircraft ever made during WWI. This aircraft was mentioned by name in the Treaty of Versailles.

Pete

bipeflr

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MerlinV, I thought I read the baron scored 40 of his victories in a D7.....dont remember where......Jim

Oberst

Yes, one of these #5 or#7 of Jasta 7- Jacobs few test planes that he had. At the time this picture was taken the Fokker DVIII was grounded and they were using the Fokker DVII. I'll be doing it all black with a white rudder. The standard Jasta 7 skin. My Albatros D.III will be the same, all black white rudder. I think I made it too obvious that I'm a big Jacobs fan. You think? lol




Pete

Oberst

Sorry, that is incorrect. Manfred TESTED the D7 at Aldershof, but did not fly it in combat. His brother, Lothar, did fly the D7 (which was actually painted in his brother's colors), but he only had perhaps 5 kills in it. (book is not right at hand.) Manfred's 80 kills were done in Fokker DII, Fokker DIII and Albatros DV and DVa, a few in a Halberstaedt (as the DVa had wing strut problems and Manfred used the Halbie for a while - less than a few weeks) and about 10-15 in the Fokker Dr1.

Pete

jeffEE

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I also read somewhere that Manfreds DVII was delivered to his airfield the day he was killed. I guess he should have stayed home and helped with getting it ready for combat.

bipeflr

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jeffe, you are correct I guess the lights went out.......Thanks, Jim

vertical grimmace

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You need to make it to our mueseum here in CO. They have Jacobs uniforms and medals. The curator's grandfather flew in the Lafayette escadrille and became best friends with Jacobs. Most of his military belongings were donated. Very cool stuff. I am tempted to do a Jacobs scheme myself.

Redbaroness13

That is correct, jeffEE - either the day or the day after. It was already painted in Manfred's color scheme, so Lothar (his younger crazier brother) just took it over when he came back (without the permission of the KofL, I might add, the little snot!) in mid-late July, crashed it in the beginning of August by coming in too hot and smacking it into the hangar tents.

Vertical Grimmace - which museum? If things go well this coming year, there might be one of those overly-long trips to air museums and I'd want to take Oberst and our son to it - would be a good opportunity to visit Richthofen castle too while we're out there.


Red

jtisch

If you want to do a WWI DVII without lozenge, here are some of your choices. All white, all black, red and white striped, and one with yellow wings with the streaky green Fokker camo on the fuse. There may be some more but it's hard to tell if they retained the lozenge on the bottom of the wings or not.

J
Here is a pic of my Jasta 7 DVII, Wiili Nebgen's machine.(Willi was tying his bootlaces when the photo was taken)

Oberst

Well I did a little reaserch on the subject and I happen to have the Osprey books Fokker DVII Aces part 1 and 2 by Norman Franks and Greg VanWyngarden. In the middle of the books they have color profiles and only 1 Unit that is known to have painted over all lozenge and that was Jasta 7. The only Fokker DVIIF known to have been fully painted over outside Jacobs unit was Oblt. Hermann ( Fat Ball ) Goring which was painted all white.

RedBaroness13 knows Norman Franks and they do correspond from time to time. It's cool to have a wife who is into this kind of stuff, she knows a lot about this stuff including the German pilots who flew the planes etc.

All others from all the records I can find, all had lozenge on the bottom of both wings and vertical stabilizer. Only the fuselage, top part of the vertical stabilizer, horizontal stabilizer and rudder was painted over.

In most cases the Manufacturer numbers were painted over also. Many times I've seen people put the numbers over the custom skin, and that was wrong - even though I admit it does look good.

The best advice I can give is to get some books that will have color profiles in them, do a little internet research and start reading. If you are just going to only fly your Fokker DVII for yourself and not intend to compete for static, then I wouldn't worry too much about it. But if you are going to take it to shows and to possibly compete- then I would make sure I was close as possible in getting it right, and have the proof to back it. Judges love research facts, and the more you can prove your model accurate ( including skin) the better your score will be. Remember, the more detail the better.

Gosh, all that detail that I made from scratch made my Custom Discontinued GP Fokker Dr1 5lbs over from when it was stock! But with that FX91 it isn't much of a problem, the average size of the engine was supposed to be a .60 or 90FS from what I recall.


Pete

jtisch

OOPS! I almost forgot. There is also a DVII ( probably two) that is completely covered in black and white stripes. You may have to spend some $$ for all the masking tape to do that one though!
The red/white striped one has several goods photos of it and it certainly is painted all over.

J

Oberst

The red and white was Ernst Udets Fokker DVII. Again it had a lozenge pattern on the bottom wing and bottom fuse. I enclosed some accurate model pictures to show all of you. I don't have permission to upload profiles from my book or any other artist so I'll upload a few pictures of other peoples model renditions.

There were quite a few black and white striped Fokker DVII's and all have lozenge on the bottom side of the wings and or belly of the fuse. The only ones I know of that were painted over from top to bottom was Jasta 7 and Oblt. Hermann Gorings Fokker DVIIF which was all white. Hermann Gorings earlier aircraft wasn't all white. Only his final DVIIF version was all white.


Pete

jtisch

Here is the B/W striped DVII.
There were many red/white DVIIs, most all of Jasta 18 were R/W, although the bottom of the wings may have retained the lozenge. The all R/W DVII I was thinking of was from Jasta 8.

Oberst

Jasta 5, Jasta 6 and JG 3 had planes that were black and white striped, but all had the lozenge pattern on the top of the wing and the top part of the bottom wing. The rest was of the aircraft was painted black and white.

The picture you posted is Hans Kirschstein's Fokker DVII from Jasta 6- not Jasta 8. And yes, his last Fokker DVII was zebra striped. However, the correct full profile is debated to this day if the whole aircraft was fully zebra painted because there are only a few surviving photos of his Fokker DVII, and the ones that remain only show the front part of his aircraft.

That's why I believe not many do his aircraft skin. To many judges would ask for the proof if the whole aircraft was painted that way. Without full documentation it would be hard to prove either way.

It is believed that Hans Kirschstein died before the BMW Fokker DVIIF was issued.

Me personally, I believe his last Fokker DVII was all painted black and white striped, but it's out of assumption and not fact.


Pete

nicostoffi

I built a 1:4 Flair DR I and a 1:4 Proctor D VII .
Both in the colors of Josef Jacobs, all in black

jtisch

This probably not the same aircraft as the first pic I posted! It is likely the same AC as the photo Oberst posted. If you look closely you'll notice the prop, prop hub, and the stripes are different.
PS: Yes, Kirschstein is Jasta 6, my reference to Jasta 8 is for a different aircraft.

bipeflr

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Thanks to everyone that responded, I don,t know if I will try competion or not but would like to have my plane at least represent an actual aircraft. I competed in early 80's in giant scale but have no idea what's going on now. What class would the D7 compete in? since AMA no longer gives a rule and competion guide i'll look on their website. I would very much like to have someone post a general idea of whats happening now or let me have a link to find out...Thanks again for all your help many things in the hobby may have changed but model airplane builders and fliers have always seemed eager to help.........Jim