ZIROLI 120" B-25 MITCHELL
11-05-2012, 02:41 PM
#51
RE: ZIROLI 120
Henrik and Todd,
thanks for posting those stats: I didn't know that Nick had them on his website (good to know info).
====================
Fuse (cont)
As with the B-26, the top hatch formers and the door formers will be lightly glued to their respective fuse former for the ends of the hatch/doors. A piece of 1/16" thick balsa is lightly glued between the hatch/door end formers and the fuse former. The door formers will get stringers made out of poplar (as well as the perimeter around the doors) to strengthen this area for the hinges.
I used the original 3 ply formers for the hatch/door formers by cutting out what's needed for the hatch/door formers.
I re-cut all formers from F-1 to F-9 using aircraft ply. I dropped two of the 3-ply formers and they cracked (I have a problem using ply that can't take being dropped 3 feet!). The remaining formers in the tail will remain 3-ply.
The first picture shows the hatch/bomb bay doors glued to their respective formers with a 1/16" balsa spacer.
The 2nd picture, I had to re-cut another 1/8" off the main wing outline on the wing saddle as I, incorrectly, used WS-2 instead of WS-1 for measuring/cutting. I also had to move the cross members of the crutch down a 1/2" to allow for the wing dihedral.
I made a partial cut into the formers that have the inner part of the door so it'll be easier to cut through the former with a razor saw after I plank the fuse. The stringer notches in the formers were cut wider to allow for the door stringer and the outer door 'frame' stringer. After planking, I'll be able to use a razor saw to cut the hatch/doors from the fuse, resulting in the doors and fuse already having the perimeters re-enforced with poplar stringers along the sides and ply along the ends.
A stringer was inserted along the top notch of all the formers to insure that they are all aligned with each other.
Three air tanks will be behind the wing in the fuse: two for gear/doors and one for bomb bay doors and bombs.
The formers are still only dry fitted.
I still need to dry fit the nose gear mounts to insure everything fits correctly.
thanks for posting those stats: I didn't know that Nick had them on his website (good to know info).
====================
Fuse (cont)
As with the B-26, the top hatch formers and the door formers will be lightly glued to their respective fuse former for the ends of the hatch/doors. A piece of 1/16" thick balsa is lightly glued between the hatch/door end formers and the fuse former. The door formers will get stringers made out of poplar (as well as the perimeter around the doors) to strengthen this area for the hinges.
I used the original 3 ply formers for the hatch/door formers by cutting out what's needed for the hatch/door formers.
I re-cut all formers from F-1 to F-9 using aircraft ply. I dropped two of the 3-ply formers and they cracked (I have a problem using ply that can't take being dropped 3 feet!). The remaining formers in the tail will remain 3-ply.
The first picture shows the hatch/bomb bay doors glued to their respective formers with a 1/16" balsa spacer.
The 2nd picture, I had to re-cut another 1/8" off the main wing outline on the wing saddle as I, incorrectly, used WS-2 instead of WS-1 for measuring/cutting. I also had to move the cross members of the crutch down a 1/2" to allow for the wing dihedral.
I made a partial cut into the formers that have the inner part of the door so it'll be easier to cut through the former with a razor saw after I plank the fuse. The stringer notches in the formers were cut wider to allow for the door stringer and the outer door 'frame' stringer. After planking, I'll be able to use a razor saw to cut the hatch/doors from the fuse, resulting in the doors and fuse already having the perimeters re-enforced with poplar stringers along the sides and ply along the ends.
A stringer was inserted along the top notch of all the formers to insure that they are all aligned with each other.
Three air tanks will be behind the wing in the fuse: two for gear/doors and one for bomb bay doors and bombs.
The formers are still only dry fitted.
I still need to dry fit the nose gear mounts to insure everything fits correctly.
11-07-2012, 08:05 AM
#52
RE: ZIROLI 120
Fuse (Cont)
I glued formers F-5 through F-13 to the crutch. F1-4 will be done later after I dry fit the nose mount to insure everything fits.
The crutch was weighted with 7 lb weights to insure the fuse stays straight with no banana shape (either horizontally or vertically) while I started gluing the stringers to the formers using carpenters glue. The stringers aren't long enough for the fuse length so I CA'ed two stringers, butt joint plus sistered a 1" piece of stringer across the joint. Each cut off stringer was then used on the next slot down so no pieces of stringers are wasted.
Air tanks:
I noticed that my initial location for air tanks are where the side gunners are so I'm going to have to relocate them: probably two in the same place but below the crutch and one just in front of the bomb bay doors.
I glued formers F-5 through F-13 to the crutch. F1-4 will be done later after I dry fit the nose mount to insure everything fits.
The crutch was weighted with 7 lb weights to insure the fuse stays straight with no banana shape (either horizontally or vertically) while I started gluing the stringers to the formers using carpenters glue. The stringers aren't long enough for the fuse length so I CA'ed two stringers, butt joint plus sistered a 1" piece of stringer across the joint. Each cut off stringer was then used on the next slot down so no pieces of stringers are wasted.
Air tanks:
I noticed that my initial location for air tanks are where the side gunners are so I'm going to have to relocate them: probably two in the same place but below the crutch and one just in front of the bomb bay doors.
11-07-2012, 08:53 PM
#53
RE: ZIROLI 120
We put 2 of our 3 tanks in the inboard leading edge of the wing. We are getting ready to add a 4th tank dedicated to the brakes. The gear and doors are real air hogs.
11-15-2012, 11:14 AM
#54
RE: ZIROLI 120
bentwings,
sounds like a good idea: thanks.
============
props:
Been busy trimming and mulching the leaves on some of my 18 trees plus working on two of my other hobbies but should be back to the B-25, shortly.
My order just came in for two of TBM's 3 blade variable pitch props.
They are 20" diameter and suppose to vary from 10 to 14 but the pitch appears to be whatever you want since I see no stops or pins on the end of the blades (although there is a threaded hole in the end, not sure what that is for!). There are three white lines on the blade shaft to adjust for 10, 12 or 14 pitch.
The blades are CF and I'm figuring the DA-50's should be just right for these 20" props.
They are similar to my solo prop for the F4U in that two halves are screwed together with multiple screws, after the blades have been inserted in the slots.
The spinner appears to be chrome plated as it is very shinny.
No instructions come with the props but they have a video on their web site:
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items...2012SCALE.html
sounds like a good idea: thanks.
============
props:
Been busy trimming and mulching the leaves on some of my 18 trees plus working on two of my other hobbies but should be back to the B-25, shortly.
My order just came in for two of TBM's 3 blade variable pitch props.
They are 20" diameter and suppose to vary from 10 to 14 but the pitch appears to be whatever you want since I see no stops or pins on the end of the blades (although there is a threaded hole in the end, not sure what that is for!). There are three white lines on the blade shaft to adjust for 10, 12 or 14 pitch.
The blades are CF and I'm figuring the DA-50's should be just right for these 20" props.
They are similar to my solo prop for the F4U in that two halves are screwed together with multiple screws, after the blades have been inserted in the slots.
The spinner appears to be chrome plated as it is very shinny.
No instructions come with the props but they have a video on their web site:
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items...2012SCALE.html
11-15-2012, 01:35 PM
#55
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RE: ZIROLI 120
Here are some pics of mine with the Troy built blades and hubs on DLE 55s.The marks on mine didn’t show on most of the blades when put together and I had to paint new ones out further.
When I got them set I found that the pitch is wrong on some blades and in fact one set blows backwards. There is a post on here some time back about the blades and hub set up and one guy gave a way to set the pitch with a wedge on a board. I have painted mine since the pics and are putting on the decals now of the prop brand. Good luck Todd
When I got them set I found that the pitch is wrong on some blades and in fact one set blows backwards. There is a post on here some time back about the blades and hub set up and one guy gave a way to set the pitch with a wedge on a board. I have painted mine since the pics and are putting on the decals now of the prop brand. Good luck Todd
11-18-2012, 08:01 PM
#56
RE: ZIROLI 120
Those are cool props.
I don't want to horn in on a good thread but this is B-25 info.
Today we finally got our B-25 fired up. The G-45's both fired up easily. Spring starters work great.
We tied the plane to the fence post with a special nylon strap we made for the purpose. The thrust is pretty hard if you like to hold it between your legs. I don't recommend this for us older guys as the plane is quite tall and it is easy to snag a rudder or the top of the fuselage when you step away. The plane is awkward to hang onto so the tie out is the best and safest way. I have used this for a very long time and have no problems at all. As soon as the starter gets the motors running he comes around behind the prop line. I don't allow anyone in front or along side the plane when running it up.
We ran each motor for about 1/2 hour on the stock needle settings. The right motor is right on with no adjustments.
The left motor has trouble running at the same speed as the right one. It seems too rich and comes up much slower. It gurgles. We leaned it quite a bit and each step helped. We had to richen the low speed slightly. It runs pretty well but still needs a little more tuning. The exhaust pipe on the left side is shorter so that may have something to do with it. The ex also blows black crap all over while the right motor runs very clean.
I forgot my infra red heat gun and my thermo couple meter is missing so we didn't get any temps.
We got 6650 out of the right motor and 2000 idle pretty easy.
The left motor got up to 6400 and 2100 idle.
After initial running both motors hot restarted very well. Usually one flip.
Zinger 20-6-10 props. We got 42 pounds of thrust with both motors running just before we had to quit for the evening.
We forgot to weigh it with 1/2 tanks of fuel but it is just over 50# dry.
The only things that fell off were the close needle valve on the bomb bay doors and a couple of nuts off the fuel fill valve. A couple of unknown screws fell out of the bomb bay but these were most likely dropped in hidden places. Lots of sanding dust came out of the bomb bay. All the scale features stayed put. The scale exhaust works great.....Glad our field is not too noise sensitive.
All the controls worked fine.
We also did a trial fit to see how it fits in the 03 Suburban. With seats down it just fits with a 6 inch block under the nose wheel so the plane can go a few inches over the front seat. There is plenty of room fo all the rest of the stuff.
We will run it again later most likely Friday as the weather is supposed to be mild for the entire week.....however this Minn and weather forecast mean nothing in the winter. haha We will try to get out to the field and do some taxi tests weather permitting.
I don't want to horn in on a good thread but this is B-25 info.
Today we finally got our B-25 fired up. The G-45's both fired up easily. Spring starters work great.
We tied the plane to the fence post with a special nylon strap we made for the purpose. The thrust is pretty hard if you like to hold it between your legs. I don't recommend this for us older guys as the plane is quite tall and it is easy to snag a rudder or the top of the fuselage when you step away. The plane is awkward to hang onto so the tie out is the best and safest way. I have used this for a very long time and have no problems at all. As soon as the starter gets the motors running he comes around behind the prop line. I don't allow anyone in front or along side the plane when running it up.
We ran each motor for about 1/2 hour on the stock needle settings. The right motor is right on with no adjustments.
The left motor has trouble running at the same speed as the right one. It seems too rich and comes up much slower. It gurgles. We leaned it quite a bit and each step helped. We had to richen the low speed slightly. It runs pretty well but still needs a little more tuning. The exhaust pipe on the left side is shorter so that may have something to do with it. The ex also blows black crap all over while the right motor runs very clean.
I forgot my infra red heat gun and my thermo couple meter is missing so we didn't get any temps.
We got 6650 out of the right motor and 2000 idle pretty easy.
The left motor got up to 6400 and 2100 idle.
After initial running both motors hot restarted very well. Usually one flip.
Zinger 20-6-10 props. We got 42 pounds of thrust with both motors running just before we had to quit for the evening.
We forgot to weigh it with 1/2 tanks of fuel but it is just over 50# dry.
The only things that fell off were the close needle valve on the bomb bay doors and a couple of nuts off the fuel fill valve. A couple of unknown screws fell out of the bomb bay but these were most likely dropped in hidden places. Lots of sanding dust came out of the bomb bay. All the scale features stayed put. The scale exhaust works great.....Glad our field is not too noise sensitive.
All the controls worked fine.
We also did a trial fit to see how it fits in the 03 Suburban. With seats down it just fits with a 6 inch block under the nose wheel so the plane can go a few inches over the front seat. There is plenty of room fo all the rest of the stuff.
We will run it again later most likely Friday as the weather is supposed to be mild for the entire week.....however this Minn and weather forecast mean nothing in the winter. haha We will try to get out to the field and do some taxi tests weather permitting.
01-07-2013, 04:41 PM
#57
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RE: ZIROLI 120
Great topic, great build...
I´m also building one of those here in Brazil, actually 2 of them... me and my friend were in doubt regarding engine. I was thinking about DLE 35RA and he was tending to a 50cc
What do u think guys? is it enough or should we go to a 50cc class?
thanks!!
I´m also building one of those here in Brazil, actually 2 of them... me and my friend were in doubt regarding engine. I was thinking about DLE 35RA and he was tending to a 50cc
What do u think guys? is it enough or should we go to a 50cc class?
thanks!!
01-07-2013, 05:01 PM
#58
RE: ZIROLI 120
I'd go with 50's. It's almost a given to weigh 50# or more. One of the local guys has one with G-62's and it flies great. It's been around for a while so it is reliable. It will fly on G-38's but the performance is shakey at best. I've only seen one on 38's and that was years ago. It really did not fly "scale like" in my opinion. The 101 version is ok however.
Don't you guys down there have alcohol fuel?? or do you have plain odl gsoline?? I'm sure you can make your motor run however.
We have piles of snow and it has been very cold up untill today. Another 10 weeks or more of the stuff.
Don't you guys down there have alcohol fuel?? or do you have plain odl gsoline?? I'm sure you can make your motor run however.
We have piles of snow and it has been very cold up untill today. Another 10 weeks or more of the stuff.
01-09-2013, 12:22 PM
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RE: ZIROLI 120
Hello Sam
I have just finished mine completely today, I ended up with a total weight on 49 lbs. (22.3 Kg.) ready to go with fuel and no ballast at all to get the specified CG from Ziroli (it is actually slightly nose heavy), I think it is because of the RCGF 50 twin engines are heavier than single cylinder 50`s but nice to be able to make a model without any lead attached to the nose.
Here are a couple of photos of the model I havent had it outside yet for some decent photos but we are still on winter-rain and cold weather here in Denmark.
I have just finished mine completely today, I ended up with a total weight on 49 lbs. (22.3 Kg.) ready to go with fuel and no ballast at all to get the specified CG from Ziroli (it is actually slightly nose heavy), I think it is because of the RCGF 50 twin engines are heavier than single cylinder 50`s but nice to be able to make a model without any lead attached to the nose.
Here are a couple of photos of the model I havent had it outside yet for some decent photos but we are still on winter-rain and cold weather here in Denmark.
01-09-2013, 01:50 PM
#63
RE: ZIROLI 120
Henrik,
WOW, she looks fantastic.
I hope mine comes out looking that nice.
Great job.
I assume it is as cold there as it is here in Ohio.
Post some videos and pictures when you maiden her, which probably won't be happening for at least a few more months!
WOW, she looks fantastic.
I hope mine comes out looking that nice.
Great job.
I assume it is as cold there as it is here in Ohio.
Post some videos and pictures when you maiden her, which probably won't be happening for at least a few more months!
01-16-2013, 07:46 AM
#64
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RE: ZIROLI 120
Hello Sam
Yes you are right about the weather, it will be a couple of months at least before it is flying season here, we even got snow and minus degrees here now so I am spending time looking at my model and enjoying the look of it. I took some small close-up photos of some of the details on it, I hope it is okay that i am posting them here.
Yes you are right about the weather, it will be a couple of months at least before it is flying season here, we even got snow and minus degrees here now so I am spending time looking at my model and enjoying the look of it. I took some small close-up photos of some of the details on it, I hope it is okay that i am posting them here.
01-28-2013, 06:20 AM
#67
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RE: ZIROLI 120
Sam, I hope all is well. Has there been any updates on your B-25? I know you don't do these for our benefit but I feel like Iam going through withdrawl.
01-28-2013, 06:41 AM
#68
RE: ZIROLI 120
ducky,
Unfortunately, I've been pretty busy on other stuff.
My daughter is starting a dog grooming business and I'm the general contractor. It's a whole lot more work doing commercial work versus your own home improvement projects!
A certified architect, plumber, electrician, sprinkler (fire suppression) and HVAC guys are needed, not to mention going through the city and then the county zoning boards. My son will also be working there: he'll do the front desk, financial, web site, sales, advertising, etc. I'm hoping to be done and have the business open by mid March.
The good news is I have lots of 'old' airplanes that I can fly this summer.
Unfortunately, I've been pretty busy on other stuff.
My daughter is starting a dog grooming business and I'm the general contractor. It's a whole lot more work doing commercial work versus your own home improvement projects!
A certified architect, plumber, electrician, sprinkler (fire suppression) and HVAC guys are needed, not to mention going through the city and then the county zoning boards. My son will also be working there: he'll do the front desk, financial, web site, sales, advertising, etc. I'm hoping to be done and have the business open by mid March.
The good news is I have lots of 'old' airplanes that I can fly this summer.
01-28-2013, 09:56 AM
#69
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RE: ZIROLI 120
ORIGINAL: bentwings
I'd go with 50's. It's almost a given to weigh 50# or more. One of the local guys has one with G-62's and it flies great. It's been around for a while so it is reliable. It will fly on G-38's but the performance is shakey at best. I've only seen one on 38's and that was years ago. It really did not fly "scale like" in my opinion. The 101 version is ok however.
Don't you guys down there have alcohol fuel?? or do you have plain odl gsoline?? I'm sure you can make your motor run however.
We have piles of snow and it has been very cold up untill today. Another 10 weeks or more of the stuff.
SORRY, shaky at best is definatly NOT the performance with Zenoah 38s, if you look on here at post 31 in this thread, you will see ours test flown with the 38s, at no time was it anywhere near full throttle after take off, its had lots in reserve, props where Menz 20x8s it was flown in grey primer, and weighed near 50lb, sadly, it was lost when the owner, my mate did a whoopsie, another is in build there have been several built over here, all with the 38s, described as the perfect no fuss simple motors needed for a twin
I'd go with 50's. It's almost a given to weigh 50# or more. One of the local guys has one with G-62's and it flies great. It's been around for a while so it is reliable. It will fly on G-38's but the performance is shakey at best. I've only seen one on 38's and that was years ago. It really did not fly "scale like" in my opinion. The 101 version is ok however.
Don't you guys down there have alcohol fuel?? or do you have plain odl gsoline?? I'm sure you can make your motor run however.
We have piles of snow and it has been very cold up untill today. Another 10 weeks or more of the stuff.
SORRY, shaky at best is definatly NOT the performance with Zenoah 38s, if you look on here at post 31 in this thread, you will see ours test flown with the 38s, at no time was it anywhere near full throttle after take off, its had lots in reserve, props where Menz 20x8s it was flown in grey primer, and weighed near 50lb, sadly, it was lost when the owner, my mate did a whoopsie, another is in build there have been several built over here, all with the 38s, described as the perfect no fuss simple motors needed for a twin
01-29-2013, 07:13 AM
#70
My Feedback: (81)
RE: ZIROLI 120
ORIGINAL: samparfitt
ducky,
Unfortunately, I've been pretty busy on other stuff.
My daughter is starting a dog grooming business and I'm the general contractor. It's a whole lot more work doing commercial work versus your own home improvement projects!
A certified architect, plumber, electrician, sprinkler (fire suppression) and HVAC guys are needed, not to mention going through the city and then the county zoning boards. My son will also be working there: he'll do the front desk, financial, web site, sales, advertising, etc. I'm hoping to be done and have the business open by mid March.
The good news is I have lots of 'old' airplanes that I can fly this summer.
ducky,
Unfortunately, I've been pretty busy on other stuff.
My daughter is starting a dog grooming business and I'm the general contractor. It's a whole lot more work doing commercial work versus your own home improvement projects!
A certified architect, plumber, electrician, sprinkler (fire suppression) and HVAC guys are needed, not to mention going through the city and then the county zoning boards. My son will also be working there: he'll do the front desk, financial, web site, sales, advertising, etc. I'm hoping to be done and have the business open by mid March.
The good news is I have lots of 'old' airplanes that I can fly this summer.
)Jeff
01-29-2013, 07:21 AM
#71
RE: ZIROLI 120
Yo Jeff,
NO, I'm 85! I tell people I'm older than I am so I get a compliment (usually!) versus an insult!
I always say: I'm just one lotto ticket away from being extremely good looking!
This summer, I'm looking forward to seeing your KI-45.
NO, I'm 85! I tell people I'm older than I am so I get a compliment (usually!) versus an insult!
I always say: I'm just one lotto ticket away from being extremely good looking!
This summer, I'm looking forward to seeing your KI-45.
01-29-2013, 11:53 AM
#72
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RE: ZIROLI 120
ORIGINAL: samparfitt
ducky,
Unfortunately, I've been pretty busy on other stuff.
My daughter is starting a dog grooming business and I'm the general contractor. It's a whole lot more work doing commercial work versus your own home improvement projects!
A certified architect, plumber, electrician, sprinkler (fire suppression) and HVAC guys are needed, not to mention going through the city and then the county zoning boards. My son will also be working there: he'll do the front desk, financial, web site, sales, advertising, etc. I'm hoping to be done and have the business open by mid March.
The good news is I have lots of 'old' airplanes that I can fly this summer.
ducky,
Unfortunately, I've been pretty busy on other stuff.
My daughter is starting a dog grooming business and I'm the general contractor. It's a whole lot more work doing commercial work versus your own home improvement projects!
A certified architect, plumber, electrician, sprinkler (fire suppression) and HVAC guys are needed, not to mention going through the city and then the county zoning boards. My son will also be working there: he'll do the front desk, financial, web site, sales, advertising, etc. I'm hoping to be done and have the business open by mid March.
The good news is I have lots of 'old' airplanes that I can fly this summer.
04-24-2013, 10:41 AM
#73
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RE: ZIROLI 120
Question for you guys building the 18" version. I want to put servos in the Vertical stabilizers for the rudders. Any idea on the amount of torque each rudder would encounter?
I have found some low profile wing servos with 91.65 oz/in @ 4.8v , 113.87 oz/in @ 6.0v. The Model MKS DS6125 with aluminum case, metal gears, and reported 0 slop. These appear to be pretty tough and the glider guys seem to like them. I think for rudders they should be sufficient.
What you guys think?
Maddawg
I have found some low profile wing servos with 91.65 oz/in @ 4.8v , 113.87 oz/in @ 6.0v. The Model MKS DS6125 with aluminum case, metal gears, and reported 0 slop. These appear to be pretty tough and the glider guys seem to like them. I think for rudders they should be sufficient.
What you guys think?
Maddawg
04-24-2013, 10:54 AM
#74
RE: ZIROLI 120
maddawg,
114 oz with metal gear should be fine although I googled the servo and it appears the shaft comes out the end; it seems like you would want the shaft to come out one of the flat sides so they will fit in the vertical fin! The site says they are for soaring but that shouldn't be a problem as long as they have the torque.
(unless you plan on putting a rotational rod on the end bent at about 45 degrees).
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...FUff4AodS2cA3A
I'll be using HS-645's for all (each) moving surfaces.
An alternative is probably the HS-225's: they're small but have metal gears and, at 67 oz torque, should be adequate for rudders (one per rudder).
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXN667&P=ML
114 oz with metal gear should be fine although I googled the servo and it appears the shaft comes out the end; it seems like you would want the shaft to come out one of the flat sides so they will fit in the vertical fin! The site says they are for soaring but that shouldn't be a problem as long as they have the torque.
(unless you plan on putting a rotational rod on the end bent at about 45 degrees).
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...FUff4AodS2cA3A
I'll be using HS-645's for all (each) moving surfaces.
An alternative is probably the HS-225's: they're small but have metal gears and, at 67 oz torque, should be adequate for rudders (one per rudder).
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXN667&P=ML
04-24-2013, 12:05 PM
#75
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RE: ZIROLI 120
I googled the servo and it appears the shaft comes out the end; it seems like you would want the shaft to come out one of the flat sides so they will fit in the vertical fin!
Does that make sense? A drawing would better explain it. The only thing I might have to do is beef up the last rib on the H. Stab since I will cut a groove in the end for the servo horn and rod to travel in. For the Rudder, I will make a access panel on the outer side to gain access to servo as needed. Maybe do it on the inner side. Have not decided. Right now I was just figuring out if the servo was strong enough and sounds like maybe it is. The rest is already functional and easy to do in my mind
Maddawg