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ZIROLI 120" B-25 MITCHELL

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Old 04-15-2015, 01:49 PM
  #426  
samparfitt
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Outer wings:
Finished up the other wing:The flap extends past the inside edge of the wing but the wing tube should eliminate any hanger rash.



Center wing:
Installed the inner flaps and servos.
Servos set up so servo arm pointing straight back when flap is down.



Main gear:
With double air cylinders, T's used to connect them. Some robart quick connects to make gear PM easier. Normally best to have as few connections as possible in the air lines but I don't ever remembering having one of these robart connectors leak.
Some tubing cut about 1/16" wide and used as collars at the connections. Some surgical clamps used to put the collar on the air line. End of tubing is flush to the T nipple to reduce the likely hood of an air leak. Some BVM O ring lube added to each side of the air cylinders.



When building the wing, 2 extra wire wing tubes were added for a total of 3 wire tubes: one for 4 sets of wire( aileron, flaps, landing lights, nav lights), one for gear, gear doors and brake air lines, and one for engine wires. Robart has some nice brass T's.

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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-15-2015 at 01:51 PM.
Old 04-15-2015, 01:55 PM
  #427  
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Center wing (cont)
Flat spot put on axle and gear installed (just 2 bolts for now as they will need to be removed for doors, etc.



Fuse:
Nose gear:
Air lines connected along with quick connects and installed in fuse.

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Old 04-16-2015, 06:05 AM
  #428  
samparfitt
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Elevators/rudders.
Solartex covering.
On the B-25, these surfaces were cloth covered so I'm using silver painted solartex. I want the colors to be different since painted aluminum will look different than real aluminum.
I had to use 100 degree C on the iron to keep from melting the paint on the solartex.

Trim tabs:
Trim tabs were cut off and edges sanded. Some light balsa blocks were CA'ed to the TE where the trim tabs are hinged for some support.




Elevators:
There is no 'grain' on the solartex so I cut the sheeting to optimize use, ie, parallel to the front of the sheeting.
Used some tape to pull apart the clear backing from the glue side as I was having trouble separating the two with my fingers.




The top side was done first.
The TE was secured with about a 1/4" overlap to the bottom side of the elevator.
Then the LE was done.




With the rounded LE, the solartex was cut into small tabs so the iron could secure each one to the curved area.



Before/after of the solartex after using the heat gun to tighten up the surface.
The bottom was covered the same way, except the solartex was trimmed to the edge of the TE with no overlap to the top side.

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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-16-2015 at 06:07 AM.
Old 04-16-2015, 09:36 AM
  #429  
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Solartex:
Finished up the rudders and all trim tabs.

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Old 04-17-2015, 10:18 AM
  #430  
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Tail feathers.
The stab and vertical fins were kept separate for ease of glassing, sanding and finishing.
The wings were added to the fuse and the tail feathers were dry fitted to insure all is straight and aligned with each other.
The fins were bolted to the stab with two #6 bolts/blinds nuts on each side for ease of insuring alignment.
Some epoxy was slopped on the mating surfaces of the fins and stab and, then, bolted together.

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Old 04-17-2015, 01:56 PM
  #431  
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tail feathers (cont)
Trim tabs secured to the elevators and rudders using the ends of a robart pin hinge.
Elevator and rudder servos are aligned with each other, respectively, so only Y extensions are needed.
Making one's own extensions is nice when having to route through small tubes and around sharp corners to reach the rudder servos, also exact length is nice.



Elevator servos:



JR 12 channel 'power safe' receiver used:



Checked elevator/rudder throws on the bench.

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Old 04-17-2015, 08:17 PM
  #432  
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Sam, did you compare the weight of your elev servos to the weight of the standard pickle fork shown on the plans? My son is building a new one and we are trying to trim some weight out of it. Weight that far back is about 5:1 . An ounce in the tail is 5 ounces in the nose. His original plane had a 1/4 in music wire pickle fork with double flattened brass horns plus brass tubes in the elevators. A single large JR. servo drove it. That alone was over 2 oz. There was a lot of excess weight in the tail assembly. He had 3 pounds of lead ahead of the nose wheel for balance.

Byron
Old 04-18-2015, 06:52 AM
  #433  
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I don't think you understand balance. In order for there to be a 5:1 weight difference there must be a 5:1 difference in distance from the aft of the plane to the CG verses the front of the plane to the CG.
I don't see that as possible. Maybe the CG is up along the fuse some where?
Old 04-18-2015, 12:28 PM
  #434  
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Byron,
You gotta' build to what you're comfortable with.
I always build with short linkages (save the rudder pull/pull when no room in the tail).
For me it's ease of PM, no slop developing in excess linkages, no bending of rods or breaking of supports.
I compensate by building the fuse with an added inch up front (why I like building wooden fuses).
My planes are strictly sport scale and I build them to please me and my flying skills.
I'm also flying a warbird and not a flip flop. I think heavy warbirds fly more scale: less likely to be affected by the wind (and there's always a cross wind at the field!), more mass means more realistically slow turns and when they land, they don't float back up into the air.

=========
tail feathers (cont)
Holes drilled into the crutch and the elevator/rudder/nav light wires routed from the back of the fuse to the TE of the wing.
Connectors installed and the moving surfaces checked before gluing down the horizontal stab as it'll be difficult to do any PM back there once the stab is glued in place (another reason for servos close to the moving surfaces).



I double checked the alignment of the stab and used epoxy with micro balls to secure the stab to the fuse.

no pictures as this web site keeps locking up when I try to post pictures (had to type this 3 times now, a save didn't save either)

ps: I managed posting a few pictures and then locked up on me again.


try one more time (before it was very slow)
Built a 6''X10" tray for receiver, gear/doors, bomb bay doors and brakes.
Stab epoxied to fuse.

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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-18-2015 at 12:51 PM.
Old 04-18-2015, 02:25 PM
  #435  
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Thanks Sam, I like the extra inch up front. You will never notice it.

Byron
Old 04-19-2015, 02:51 AM
  #436  
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About the plan CG, we think it a tad on the safe side, we balanced Alans as per plan, gear up, and flew it, as with the first one, ( sadly lost on test flying) it was noticably nose heavy, we removed a lot of ballast, but sorry, havnt re- checked the balance point shift, it flew again yesterday, in its grey primer, with our regulations here, it has to have 5 flights, to prove the model, it will now come in, and he can keep the nose off the floor, until speed decays, its a *****cat! For me, with the ass end servos, i would keep them in, one for each control surface, with nice short links, ours are 3 mm, with kavan ball links, it has to have a failsafe, so, we cross link the control surfaces, so, if we have a reciev fail, we atill have control, i will explain this netter, if there is interest, But basically, nevervrely on one servo, on such a crucial control surface

seeing as this weekend is the anniversary of the doolittle raiders, i think i will suggest the colour sceme of the lead ship, good idea?
Old 04-19-2015, 07:08 AM
  #437  
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Alanc,
Thanks for the CG tip.
The plans say 5"-5.5" but since the plans are the 101" enlarged to 118", the actual measurement is 6"-6.5" so you're saying to use about 6" for the CG?

=========

Receiver satellites:
Put some robart air tubing over antenna for protection.



Horizontal stab:
Put two screws through the fuse former and stab to insure the stab doesn't come off this large of a plane. During earlier construction, ply was added to the stab so it overlaps the fuse former.



Air tanks:
After putting one satellite receiver in the back of the fuse, the two air tanks for the gear were installed.




Landing gear:
UP2 valve, servo and linkage done. needed 3 spacers to get the control rod to align with the valve rod.



Note: don't know what's happening, software wise, but I had to get input the description, save it, get out of the post and back in to be able to post pictures!!
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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-19-2015 at 07:21 AM.
Old 04-19-2015, 09:45 AM
  #438  
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Sam

I have the CG at 6 inch, I have four servoes as you in the tail feathers, and I have made reinforcements to the tail section to make it removeable,(that is hardwood Blocks, blind nuts, bolts and so on), you dont have to worry about lead in the nose. I moved my engines forward about one half inch and I have no lead at all in the nose. My model can land with or without flaps and can hold the nose in an up position untill the speed drops Down during landing roll, both on concrete and grass.

Keep up the good Work Sam, looks great.
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:55 AM
  #439  
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Alans has zenoha 38s fitted, with stainless steel prob hubs,made by me,to get a bit of weight forward, batterys are abc life batteries, not much weight to those, so they are on the CG, Balance was set at 6 inch, and it flew nose heavy, next time out, i will ask the guys to check it, and report back, either way, it has the same flight characteristics as yours it seems, nose is easily held up, looks great going down the runway! Its only got grey primer at the moment, yet to be painted, There is a huge CG shift when the wheels are down, not really noticeable in flight, its a very well behaved airframe
Old 04-19-2015, 01:06 PM
  #440  
IFLYBVM2
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Originally Posted by alanc
Alans has zenoha 38s fitted, with stainless steel prob hubs,made by me,to get a bit of weight forward, batterys are abc life batteries, not much weight to those, so they are on the CG, Balance was set at 6 inch, and it flew nose heavy, next time out, i will ask the guys to check it, and report back, either way, it has the same flight characteristics as yours it seems, nose is easily held up, looks great going down the runway! Its only got grey primer at the moment, yet to be painted, There is a huge CG shift when the wheels are down, not really noticeable in flight, its a very well behaved airframe
Does Alan's do OK with the G-38's power wise ? Reason I ask is that I have one of Greg Hahns Top Gun B-25s that has the same '38s in it. Just wonder how it performs. I have seen some guys put WAY bigger engines in the same plane, which, in my opinion, makes them fly way too fast to look scale.
Thanks-Mike Oberst
Old 04-19-2015, 01:53 PM
  #441  
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Plenty of power, most of the flight is made at half throttle, full is only used at take off, The 38 is used over here on all the ziroli twins ive seen, its simple, easy to maintain, and very well respected, we are operateing bothe the Dc3, and the B25, both with the 38s, ive seen this engine used consistantly in the beechcraft as well, not to mention numerous 18 foot Lancasters, and B17s, plenty of power in them all,
Old 04-19-2015, 01:54 PM
  #442  
ram3500-RCU
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She is looking great Sam. Another wonderful build.
Old 04-19-2015, 02:31 PM
  #443  
samparfitt
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Henrik,
I, also, lengthened my nacelles so the engines are farther forward so balance should be good. Using Dbalsa's full cockpit kit with CJR resin pilots should give me any nose weight that might be needed.
-----
Iflybvm,
You have to consider weight for these twins. Greg's plane is extremely light and, from what I've read, builders 'across the pond' also build their planes very light. I'm figuring mine will be around 50 lbs. A few years ago at a flyin, I saw a B-25 using G-38's and it took a long time to take off, plus he had to use those ugly,non scale TPC grey props. One nice thing with larger engines is you can use near scale size props, ie:




-----------------
Thanks Gary.
Didn't see ya' at Toledo this year!


+================
Service tray:
Installed the bomb bay air valve, the brake valve and the two servos for them.
(a slow day)


NOTE: loading pictures locked up firefox again, had to close it and re-start.
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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-19-2015 at 03:10 PM.
Old 04-20-2015, 07:30 AM
  #444  
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Side gun pods:
I used my belt sander to quickly remove the waste from the gun pods. (these are from Dbalsa's B-25 kit).
I traced where the gun pods go on the side of the fuse.



Service panel:
Some 1/8' thick ply cut and two air fill valves, two pressure valves, soft switch for the two battery packs, nav/landing light switch and two battery power charging outlets were installed on the ply.
This panel was traced behind where the gun pods go and holes were drilled/cut into the fuse for the service panel. I had to use a forstner bit to cut into the 1/8" thick ply that was inserted between wing saddle and nose gear to strengthened this area.



The gun pod covers the service panel.
Can use hinges on the top of the gun pod for opening but I'll probably glue two dowels to the inside of the gun pod, drill dowel size holes into the fuse and 1/8" ply and then just be able to slide the gun pod into the two holes in the fuse. Not sure how I'll secure the pod to the fuse to keep it from vibrating out, yet!

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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-20-2015 at 07:39 AM.
Old 04-20-2015, 11:21 AM
  #445  
samparfitt
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Retracts:
Connected air lines to the air valve, air fill valve and gear.
To make the wing removable, quick connects were used to the tanks in the fuse and the nose gear. The quick connects mail/female were used on one side of dual air lines so I never have to worry about connecting the wrong air lines (even though I still was consistent with the pink/purple air line color codes).
On 'trikes', I always seem to have trouble with the nose gear coming down and locking so, of the two down/up nipples on the valve, one went to both of the main gears (versus the instructions of a valve nipple for each main gear) and one valve nipple to the nose gear (versus putting a T in one of the lines going to a main gear and routing to the nose gear).
I ran short air lines between the door nipples so the gear could be tested without the doors installed, yet.
Gear test:
They were nice and scale on movement but I adjusted the flow screw to speed them up. Want to make sure they operate while flying, moving against all the wind 'up there'!



note: to prevent the web site from locking, I 1) posted the message and saved, 2) got out of the thread and 3) reentered and uploaded the pictures. This site also seems to be a little slow at times, while I can go to another web site and browse, while waiting for this one,
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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-20-2015 at 11:29 AM.
Old 04-21-2015, 10:16 AM
  #446  
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Retracts:
100 lbs put in for the gear and it held overnight in the UP position (most important position) as well as in the down position during the day.



Bomb bay/brakes:
Large air tank added and routed to respective air valves.



Wire extensions:
Tools of the trade:
Don't go cheap on connectors: EMS are gold plated (don't need corrosion several years down the road!).
The 1/16" centering punch is needed to push home the metal connectors into the plastic.
20 gauge wire from radical RC: biggest wire that can fit into a regular connector (at least for me to put together!).
All extensions to moving surfaces get RF donuts (also from radical RC).
http://www.radicalrc.com/search/rf%20noise



A Y extension for the rudder/rotating turret combo. The turret uses a robotic 360 degree servo.



Nav/landing lights:
Initially, was going to put the 6 AA battery pack in the nose but, being non-rechargeable, I opted to place the pack at the front of the wing for easy replacement.



Some wire harnesses from home depot to have some resemblance of order.
Starting to look like a rat's nest: as long as the electrons know where to go, I'm happy (and I've labeled all wire extensions!).



All extensions get the blue type safety connectors.
Those extensions that may need disconnecting, ie, removing wing from fuse, get a yellow safety connector for ease of knowing which wires need dis-connecting.

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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-21-2015 at 10:35 AM.
Old 04-21-2015, 04:20 PM
  #447  
samparfitt
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Flaps (cont)
4 way extension made for the four flaps.
Used a piano wire to pull the wires through the wing wire tubing.



About 10 degrees flap for if I need them for take off.



Full flaps:



For the outer wing flaps, haven't decided, yet, if I'm connecting the extension directly to an ashlok connector or to the ashlock via a regular 3 way connector for PM.

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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-21-2015 at 04:22 PM.
Old 04-22-2015, 07:37 AM
  #448  
samparfitt
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Outer wings (cont)
Flaps and ailerons wire extensions.
A Y extension was made for the ailerons and routed through the inner wing.
The ashlok connectors were connected directly to the flap/aileron wires: doing otherwise would have created a lot of needless connectors that wouldn't have fit into that small wire routing tubing, anyway!
The female ashlock on the inner wing. I used the 9 pin ashlok, 6 for the flap/aileron and last 3 for the nav/landing lights where I can use a common ground for the nav/landing lights, thus saving an extra wire and all fitting on a 9 pin ashlock.



Outer wing:
Two wire extensions made for the flap and aileron, regular connections on the servo side, routed the wire through the wing and connected the wires up to the male ashlok.




Hooked up the wings. A slot in the outer wing for the ashlok recess.




Tested the flaps/ailerons.



Ashlok allows me to talk to people while connecting the wing wires (no cross/flipped connections) plus the two connectors lock to each other.
I got the ashlok kits from dreamworks many moons ago. I'm not sure if they still sell the kits although I know electrodynamics sells assembled versions.
Wires for the nav/landing lights will be done later.
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Last edited by samparfitt; 04-22-2015 at 07:51 AM.
Old 04-22-2015, 10:09 AM
  #449  
alanc
 
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No problem getting off with the 38s, probs are 20x8 menz on the B25, 18x10 3 bladers on the DC3, the Dak has to have 18", simply because theres no further clearance to the fuselage!! The diam looks good to me, very realistic,
Old 04-22-2015, 05:42 PM
  #450  
acdii
 
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When the plane is all polished like that, are there any issues with seeing it in the sky?


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