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  1. #76
    Emil The Swede's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Great to hear that the maiden was enjoyable and went well. I can see from the picture that the weather was a bit better then here in Sweden; we have 4 decimeter of snow and -10 degrees Celsius. I am looking forward to the film.

    Spitfire brotherhood #164

  2. #77
    hombresinropa's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5


    ORIGINAL: H.Dale

    I'm building the 72.5 Spitfire also. I used the Dynamic Balsa cokpit also and cut it off so I didn't have to re do the pull-pull cables. Did you take any pictures of the installation? I was going to leave off the sides since you can't see them. Jus wondering if you put them in?

    I am waiting to see if Robart will have some electric retracts that will fit. I was wondering if anyone knows what size might work?

    I have a DLE 30 for mine and am trying my hand at weathering. So far it looks pretty good. Will try and post some pictures soon.

    Hal

    Hal,

    Found some electric retracts. http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items/ESMSPITF-73ER.html

    -Mike
    Fortune favors the bold.

  3. #78

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Hombre-

    It's great to hear that the maiden went well. Once you put the gear up you find that it flys even better. I know you will have hours of flying fun with this plane. I enjoyed the challange of learning how to land this plane.
    Nothing difficult is ever easy.
    Spitfire Brotherhood #44

  4. #79
    hombresinropa's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Tevan,

    Thanks! I appreciate your tips. They were very helpful, and I'm sure they are a big part of why the maiden went well.

    I'm also "enjoying" learning how to land this plane... I have nosed it over every time, the last one (3rd flight) gave it a bit of rash. Nothing too bad, but now I need to dust off the painting/touch up skills. Just some cracked paint on the tail and wing is all. last landing actually nosed over all of the way and cracked the canopy. Looks like I'll be getting a replacement. I think I may be coming in too slow, although I'm now sure. It's just a spitfire, and they are hard to touch down just right. I reviewed your video and saw that you were coming in a little hotter than I was trying to... I'm going to keep at the practicing.

    Fortune favors the bold.

  5. #80

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    If I could get my hands on a canopy, I could make a better replacement. As far as your landings go: Careful coming in faster... while it may give you more control at first, as the speed bleeds off you will still probably nose over, and you will cause more damage. Plus, you risk bouncing back up even more, because you will still be above flying speed, at least while in ground effect. Not good. Proper landing speed is proper landing speed, and the only thing that really changes the appropriate landing (air)speed is flaps and cg movements. The gear mounts are a tad too aft on this model as others have pointed out, and this will play havoc with a forward cg for sure. I would immediately shim the gear angle forward, as this will make a world of difference. Then move the cg back a total of 4-5mm (in increments) WITH THE SPINNER ON until she starts to behave better on landing. You will find that it will slow down more on landing with a proper cg and allow the nose to go a little higher in the flare. You may need to reduce your elevator throw a tad also once the cg is finalized to keep it from being twitchy...

    I'll bet you my P-47 that these recommendations will do the trick.

    Oh, one more thing... you did heavily grease the axles on your ESM retracts, right? If not, the axle will start to bind on the wheel as it spins, increasing the rolling resistance... this is a known problem that will make your nose-over problem even worse.

    Ree
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  6. #81

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Hombre-

    Try giving yourself a little more up elevator for landing...may want to do that on dual rate. That way you can just switch over to a higher elevator rate for landing. Use a little expo so that you don't get to twitchy with the elevator on landing. That will give you time to learn how sensitive this plane is. I feel confident that you will be able to prevent nose overs by simply focusing on the tail right as the wheels touch down. Don't be afraid to land it a little hot as the elevator is more active and will give you time to set it down gently with up elevator.

    Good luck.
    Nothing difficult is ever easy.
    Spitfire Brotherhood #44

  7. #82
    hombresinropa's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Tevan and Rich,

    Thanks much for the advice.  I'm going to take the landing advice for sure.  I added some expo on all control surfaces, but need to add more on the elevator for sure.  Also, I'm going to rake the gears forward with some shims.. going to do it gradually.  it made a big difference on my phoenix models spitfire.  That also had a nose-over problem, and it was a .40 size, and I got it to land and taxi on the grass, so I'm sure I can do the same with this model.

    I've found that the ESM retracts, while good, have issues.  Rich was right about the gears binding.  I took it out to fly yesterday and it wouldn't even taxi... the left gear seized up.  I ruined the axle getting it unstuck.  Now I'm going on a quest today to get a replacement bolt on axle for the retract.  i'm going to get steel axles instead of aluminum and grease the heck out of the axles.  

    It seems we never stop learning new lessons.
    Fortune favors the bold.

  8. #83

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Sounds good... I will offer up one more piece of advice based on my opinion: don't get in the habit of using tons of expo all the time. Some is great, I would say up to about 30% in some circumstances. Too much, I believe, hinders your skills on the sticks and interferes with your development of finite control. This causes over-controlling when quick, small reactive movements are required. It becomes a crutch, in short. A properly balanced airplane will not need tons of elevator to flare properly (or do anything else for that matter), and without excessive elevator movement dialed in the need for expo will diminish... as will as the danger of accelerated stalls. Having some extreme up elevator to assist DURING TAXI (like tevans55 said, on a switch) sounds good.

    The excessive nose-over tendency of this Spit is caused by rolling resistance (for whatever reason) and the relationship between the landing gear position and the CG. I suspect that the siezed wheel you found was starting to work it's magic on your last nose-over/flip that cracked your canopy. Work on these areas and you will be golden.


    Good luck!! Oh yeah, flown the Mustang yet?
    Firepower R/C
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  9. #84
    hombresinropa's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    No on the mustang... I never went back out to the field yesterday.. got distracted working on the Spitfire's retracts. I messed with my retract servo on the P51 and got annoyed with the mechanical retracts and ordered Eflite electric retracts. Got overnight shipping so I should have them today. I'll rebalance it and fly it with the 15% nitro later today or tomorrow... probably tomorrow. Looking forward to getting the 4-stroke dialed in.

    I'm about to leave the house and hunt for new axles. I want to get the Spit going well again, so I can fly it on nice days and work on my P51/P40 on windy/crappy days.

    I also ordered a new prop adapter nut for my spinner for the Spit, so I can get it going. I got the Dave Brown spinner, which requires an x-long spinner nut. I should have it in a day or two. Today will be dedicated mostly to shimming the landing gears on both planes, finding a spitfire axle, etc. Once I get the spinner on, I'll rebalance it an take it out again.

    I posted some stuff on an ESM retract thread... looks like people are having problems with the aluminum retracts all around, because of the soft metal. I surmize that's where you got some of your info on the wheels binding? Lots of people are shearing the oleo strut screw... the one that rides up and down in the slot, preventing strut rotation. Also lots of air leaks. I have no air leak issues at all, I like the ESM retracts, once I get all of the bugs worked out.

    I had to drill the axle out. There was no other way... drilled it a bit and then hammered it out with a thick piece of wire and a hammer on a vise. nicked the wheel a TINY bit, but otherwise the wheel was ok. The axle was destroyed, and the "hub" of the wheel (the axle hole) was pretty messy... drilled it out just enough to smooth it out and I'll get a slightly thicker diameter axle. Lots of grease, too. I may have to go back to plastic wheels if this doesn't work.

    I'm looking forward to getting this fixed and combined with good sticking techniques, getting some good landings. Everytime I land someone is there and sees me nose it over, heh. Then again, I'm the only person there who flies tail dragger warbirds. My field is pretty littered with small holes and thick grass. Everyone else either flies electrics, giant 3d planes, or trikes. I'm the only scale warbird dude at the entire club. So screw em, they fly "easy stuff." Heh.
    Fortune favors the bold.

  10. #85

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5


    ORIGINAL: hombresinropa

    Β*So screw em, they fly ''easy stuff.'' Β*Heh. Β*

    Here here!!
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  11. #86
    hombresinropa's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    So, more on the landing gear...

    I couldn't find axles... but I COULD find a hardware store.  I don't want to wait (I still ordered axles and a new wheel, so this is temporary).

    Temp fix:  Got M6 button head screws to fit in as the axle.  Bought a 1/4 bearing sleeve, put it over the M6 screw "axle."  Used finishing washers to keep the small allen hub screws on the wheel from rubbing.  Bearing sleeve is 1/16 wider than the wheel on each side.  Finishing washers do the trick.  There is no torque on the wheels or axle at all now.  Aluminum wheel on a brass bearing sleeve on a steel screw.  sleeve is also a spacer, so when I tighten the screw, it's tight with no friction on the wheel.

    Had to drill out the wheel with the patented Mike Anderson drill press.  It's even, and works great.  I'll put up some pics when I find my cell phone.
    Fortune favors the bold.

  12. #87
    hombresinropa's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Here are the photos. Hard to see the spacer.. the way it's supposed to be.
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    Fortune favors the bold.

  13. #88
    hombresinropa's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Had another successful flight today... this makes 4! It was nosing over really bad on the first 3 flights. On the 3rd flight, it completely flipped and cracked my canopy. I've already gotten a new canopy, but after fixing the gear seizing issues, I decided to bite the bullet and order replacement axles and wheels. I got the 4" ESM aluminum wheels, but they aren't the same as the ones that come with the retracts. They are just as pretty, but they don't have solid hubs... they have a ring of holes circling the hub. They are fatter, so they didn't fit well on the ESM retract axle. I made some mods and it works fine and looks great. I also shimmed the gears and move the wheels forward about 1/2 inch. Then, I practiced landing for about a week on Phoenix RC flight simulator....
    All in all, great flight day. Even got in the maiden on the Top Flite P-51. I have the warbird landing pretty much licked.

    *Edit. I also lubed the crap out of the axles and wheels; hopefully no more binding.
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    Fortune favors the bold.

  14. #89

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    beauty, eh?
    Firepower R/C
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  15. #90
    hombresinropa's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Now that I have it all figured out, I'll get the exhaust and the gun blisters on!  Sweet.  Also going to look into the cockpit kit.  I have a pilot already, I may stick him in there today, so I have someone to blame besides me if the plane crashes.
    Fortune favors the bold.

  16. #91
    Emil The Swede's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Nice to hear that your landing technique is improving! I have similar experience as you with a broken canopy on my H9 Spifire. I will continue my practice a bit before I try the ESM Spitfire. I know that some have put in bearings in the wheels in order to lower friction and it works really well.



     

    If you’re going to update your model with a pilot and cockpit, have a look on these websites:



    http://magnumrc.com/kmpesm-spitfire-...kpit-p-11.html

    http://www.hawkertempest.se/uploads/spitfire.htm

    Spitfire brotherhood #164

  17. #92

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Hi
    I am very pleased to hear of your maiden be careful it sounds like you are in danger of getting Spititus a desease common to Spitfire pilots it has no known cure suffers can expect to wake up and discover a garage full of Spitfires in no time at all. I have five now! I agree with all the recomendations on landings I prefer duel rates on the elevator for landing as lots of expo can get out of hand fast. Duel rates will only work of course if you remember to engauge them!! I also carry a little more speed and wheel it on three pointers are possible but push you very close to the stall which limits options should it all start going pear shaped!
    I wish you many happy flights the look of a Spitfire in the air is unique and a thing of beauty!

    Cheers Chris
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  18. #93
    hombresinropa's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    I'm pretty sure I've had Spititus for a long time.
    Fortune favors the bold.

  19. #94

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    There's only one cure for that!

    Take 2 Spitfires and fly three times a day.

    You'll feel back to your old self in no time at all!!
    Nothing difficult is ever easy.
    Spitfire Brotherhood #44

  20. #95

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Hey fellow spitfire lovers,

    I've finally acted on a long-time desire to have a nice Spitfire and just this week a 72" ESM arrived UPS from KMP!  Looks beautiful.  I splurged and bought a Saito FG30 which I think is going to be pretty nice in this airplane.  Been mulling over the Spit manual and looking at parts and already have a couple of questions:

    1.  Mounting the engine.  The manual is not very explicit on this point but implies that the engine should be mounted so that the thrust line passes dead-center through the firewall.  If I do this and adjust the cowl so that the prop shaft passes dead center through the opening in the cowl, then the fit of the cowl to the recessed area of the airframe is not optimal - I have to shift the cowl slightly from where it seems to best mate with the airframe.  If instead, I move the cowl to where it best fits the airframe, the prop shaft will be about 3/8" off-center (low) with respect to the cowl opening (spinner end).  This seems to give me 2 major choices: A. mount engine with thrust line dead-center to firewall and adjust cowl fit to center shaft/spinner in cowl opening or B. mount engine with 3/8" offset from dead center so that spinner aligns with cowl and cowl achieves best fit with airframe.  Really comes down to which is the best reference for thrust-line position: firewall or spinner opening in optimally mated cowl/fuse.  (I could also split the difference and mount with a 3/16" offset).

    Does anyone have recommendations here?

    2.  I had expected pneumatic retracts with the kit but it came with ESM electrics instead - these appear to be pretty nicely built. 

    Does anyone have thoughts about the relative merits of pneumatics vs. electrics?

    Many thanks for this thread - I was very happy to find it. 

    John

  21. #96

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Johnny-

    I have built 2 of these Spitfires (first one hit a bird) and I would select option B. The fit between the cowl and fuse was slightly different on each plane. I offset on the first plane and on the second I offset and trimmed the cowl for a good fit. Still had offset but not as much. Both planes flew/fly exactly the same. One thing I learned on the second was that 60 degrees of flaps works just fine.

    I can't help with your retract question as I use Century Jet pneumatic retracts in my plane.

    You will enjoy this plane...Good Luck.
    Nothing difficult is ever easy.
    Spitfire Brotherhood #44

  22. #97

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Tevan - thanks for the info and the quick reply - I'm anxious to get started!

    John

  23. #98

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    My EMS/KMP 72" Spitty just arrived from Ontario also,must bethe same batchof Spittys that Johnnypipes came from. I knew that AndrewKondor brough in six 72" Spitfires ( also six Corsairs ) into Canada.

    It's myfirst non-foamy type ARF. I am impressed with the overall finish and workmanship. I have always built my warbirds before, but it takes so much time!

    I plan on putting in my new DLE 30. Our field has a noise restriction so the stock muffler is out. Anyone know if the Bissen inverted wrap-around will fit without cutting any of the side of the cowl? Or is the Jtech muffler a tighter fit? A 1/4 inch can make all the difference.

    Another quick question if I may. I have used brandname CA flex hinges before and had no problems, but I have read to be wary of the EMS hardware, etc. Anybody had failures with the supplied hinges? I could put in Dubro pin hinges but the CA hinge is a nice tight, clean fit and would prefer it IF I knew it would not let me down.

    Tom

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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    Hey Tom! Congratulations on the new Spitfire!!! Yeah, we were in the same batch from AK/KMP! I have a couple of other projects in the queue but can't resist jumping in on the Spitfire assembly! Can't offer any knowledge of the DLE muffler - it looks like the Saito FG30 and muffler will fit nicely inside the cowl so that only the valve covers and an exhaust pipe will exit the bottom of the cowl - I'm not sure what kind of vents I may need to manage airflow / engine temperature. Or should I really hang the muffler outside the cowling? Anyone have thoughts about this or am I obsessing?

    I think the supplied hinges look fine but I don't know about the rest of the hardware - posted comments suggest we be wary!

    The electric retracts look interesting but I've not tried them - pretty sturdy and I suspect the wormgear-like mechanism may give them a nice realistic looking action. I need to take a vacation so I can work on the Spit full time for a few days!

    John

  25. #100
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    RE: ESM Spitfire 72.5

    My ESM had a crosshair drawn on the firewall. Horizontal line in center, vertical line 6 mm sideways. I am using an OS-200 FS and I turned it 14 degrees in order to center the cut-out in the cowl, still using the factory painted crosshair as the center for the propeller shaft. The OS-200 is probably similar in size as the Saito FG30. The hole for air outlet is covered with plastic padding net for better appearance.
    Sorry, but I have no experience regarding the electrical retracts. I use the ESM pneumatic, but I replaced the tubing, fittings and valves to Robart and put the lot on the wing. It works great, the air stays in the system for 48 hours and it’s possible to maneuver the slow and scale-like. The original stuff was leaking and the retracts moved like a mousetrap.
    Some pictures of how I did it, hope it could help you out.
    Spitfire brotherhood #164


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