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  1. #1
    Tone Price's Avatar
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    ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    Hi all,

    I'm creating this thread to clear some things up in regards to a thread located here which I missed posting to before it was locked: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11001282/tm.htm

    Our ESM ARF's increased in price recently due to reasons including cost of the kits, and several other reasons. I'll spare you the details of running a business/costs/complications and other things that are not of your interest because I am not here for pity.

    While the original increase was necessary, it is obvious the community has voiced their distaste and we listened. We worked out new agreements so that the price increase is minimal. It's a maximum of $10 increase which is 3% or less. The prices of the ESM planes is very competitive considering it is now available in parts and available through dozens of dealers. Please note some planes have actually decreased in price as well. Although no price increase is a good price increase, please understand nobody here at TBM is trying to put one over on our customers and we were acting on the circumstances we were given.

    While flat rates help expedite shipping quotes and more, we have listened to you and will no longer be offering these. All shipping on our website and over the phone will be real-time UPS quotes. Some of you may notice the old flat rates were a better deal, and some may notice a small savings due to this new method as well.

    I hope everyone can understand that we will do anything in our power to please our customers. We apologize for any inconveniences this has caused in future build plans as well.


    We try to stay active on the forums as much as possible but without you guys giving us a call or email to voice your opinion on things we sometimes, especially in this case, miss threads we should be active on! If you ever have any problems with an order, or have any concerns whatsoever please give us a call or email!
    tone@troybuiltmodels.com
    http://www.troybuiltmodels.com

  2. #2

    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    To follow up on one customers complaint from the last thread regarding an issue between TBM and VQ warbirds, the advertised price on VQ's was a mistake on VQ's part. I just want to let everyone know that it was a mistake, and in no way shape or form would we participate in any form of Price Fixing. I notified VQ of the issue and it was corrected promptly. In addition to that, the day the customer called was the day that we implemented the price changes.

    We are not out to get our customers, make a quick buck, or over charge anyone. We are charging what we need to charge to stay in business, keep bringing these great planes to you, and bring this product to market. As Tone has mentioned, we have changed our pricing once again to better suit you guys, and show you in no way shape or form do we try and profit on the shipping. We pass all of our discounts on to the customer to stay competitive.

    We have always tried to offer the lowest possible pricing on our wares to help out the fellow modeller, and we will continue to do so. We completely understand this hobby grows increasingly more expensive, and we try our hardest to ensure it doesnt get so expensive that it turns customers away.
    Bill Badnaruk
    TBM Customer Service Manager - (941) 342 8685

  3. #3

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    I have taken the Troybuiltmodels web site off of my favorites list because if I visit it my computer locks up. So many things loading, pop-ups ??? don't know, don't care, but my computer just goes into NOT RESPONDING. I can only manually shut it off and power it up for a reboot. Operating system is Windows XP, yes its old but so am I. Retired and not planning on buying a new computer every time there is an upgrade. If I can't look, without my computer locking up, then I probably won't be a future customer. Just my 2 cents worth.

  4. #4

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models


    ORIGINAL: TBMcustomerservice

    To follow up on one customers complaint from the last thread regarding an issue between TBM and VQ warbirds, the advertised price on VQ's was a mistake on VQ's part. I just want to let everyone know that it was a mistake, and in no way shape or form would we participate in any form of Price Fixing. I notified VQ of the issue and it was corrected promptly. In addition to that, the day the customer called was the day that we implemented the price changes.

    We are not out to get our customers, make a quick buck, or over charge anyone. We are charging what we need to charge to stay in business, keep bringing these great planes to you, and bring this product to market. As Tone has mentioned, we have changed our pricing once again to better suit you guys, and show you in no way shape or form do we try and profit on the shipping. We pass all of our discounts on to the customer to stay competitive.

    We have always tried to offer the lowest possible pricing on our wares to help out the fellow modeller, and we will continue to do so. We completely understand this hobby grows increasingly more expensive, and we try our hardest to ensure it doesnt get so expensive that it turns customers away.

    Price mistake by VQ, I don`t buy it. You try to tell me a competitor is selling the same planes as you , almost $50 cheaper and you are ok with that . I don`t buy it. I know you all called and raise hell. Its the same reason we are finding it harder to get engines that you are now selling, $150 cheaper else where. I know its just business, but don`t take us for fools.
    91-Zulu

  5. #5
    miklos's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    Well, I was always under the belief that the prices were set by the US distributor, however I noticed the other day that the price for the ESM LA-7 on Troys website is a good $70 cheaper than on the US distributors website, so Kudos to Troybuilt for returning their price to a more reasonable level.

    Now if they could just explain the large discrepancy in shipping costs between planes that are the same size??[:@]

  6. #6
    Tone Price's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    Luft-Gangster, I apologize for any inconveniences the website has caused you. I test our website in several different browsers but if you are still running internet explorer 6 that may be the problem. You shouldn't need to upgrade your whole computer if it's a Windows XP machine. It's possible you could upgrade to Internet Explorer 8, Firefox, or Chrome and be OK too if you aren't on any of those already.


    ORIGINAL: 91zulu

    Price mistake by VQ, I don`t buy it. You try to tell me a competitor is selling the same planes as you , almost $50 cheaper and you are ok with that . I don`t buy it. I know you all called and raise hell. Its the same reason we are finding it harder to get engines that you are now selling, $150 cheaper else where. I know its just business, but don`t take us for fools.
    91zulu, we were not OK with VQ advertising planes for cheaper than us as our price is the MAP price. We are the distributor for ESM in the US. We notified all of our dealers (VQ included) that pricing will/has gone up. It's very possible VQ missed that plane in his updates or he just did not get to it yet. As Bill has pointed out, the call was made on the same day as the first price change. If there was a button I could push to update everyone's websites in an instant I would have pushed it but there isn't. I hope you can understand there is no price fixing going on here.

    I'm unsure about the engines, please elaborate.


    ORIGINAL: miklos
    Well, I was always under the belief that the prices were set by the US distributor, however I noticed the other day that the price for the ESM LA-7 on Troys website is a good $70 cheaper than on the US distributors website, so Kudos to Troybuilt for returning their price to a more reasonable level.

    Now if they could just explain the large discrepancy in shipping costs between planes that are the same size??
    miklos, yes you are correct, they are set by the US distributor. The pricing now on the TBM website is the accurate pricing. It may take some of our dealers some time to re-adjust again. Although we do not do flat rates anymore, the flat rate shipping was calculated by box size and weight to several parts of the country and averaged. One would think that a 71" P51D would be the same box size and weight as a 71" Skyraider but it is not.

    I'm not the one who handles our shipping here but I believe this is the way it is done by UPS: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../oversize.html

    71" Skyraider = 25lbs 20x16x50 - UPS size: 122"
    71" P51D = 25lbs 20x12x54 - UPS size: 106"

    UPS figures package size with this formula: Length + 2x Width + 2x Height. The length would be the longest measurement.
    tone@troybuiltmodels.com
    http://www.troybuiltmodels.com

  7. #7
    SCALECRAFT's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    Really.

    This is a non-issue.



    No one is forced to buy this.

    Steve

  8. #8

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models


    [quote]ORIGINAL: Tone Price

    Luft-Gangster, I apologize for any inconveniences the website has caused you. I test our website in several different browsers but if you are still running internet explorer 6 that may be the problem. You shouldn't need to upgrade your whole computer if it's a Windows XP machine. It's possible you could upgrade to Internet Explorer 8, Firefox, or Chrome and be OK too if you aren't on any of those already.


    Tone Price
    My operating sys is Windows XP with Internet Explorer 8.
    I did visit your web site today and was actually able to view products and change pages. ( first in a long time). When I went to leave everything stopped. All I got was a tone with not responding. Did the CTRL ALT DEL for the task manager and tried to close it down using that and it still refused to close with a not responding. After about 3 min the enternet explorer shut down. Did a Norton Utilities scan and it came up clean. I will keep trying.
    Thanks
    Leroy

  9. #9
    Tone Price's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    Luft-Gangster, I'm sorry to hear it's still locking up, do you have any problems on any other websites at all? IE-8 should handle the website just fine so the problem may involve your ram.

    I do not know your exact configuration but depending on when you purchased your computer it could only have 128mb-256mb of ram which is low. In that case you would be able to purchase some ram (512mb) for around $20. It's very common to do this upgrade especially on older computers.

    Please see my attachment to this post. On your computer, check your task manager's Performance tab. If your PF is near it's limit this is what could be causing the lockups.

    I appreciate you giving it another shot. If you'd like, please shoot me an email at tone@troybuiltmodels.com and I can help you get your system running as smooth as possible for as little as possible. I'll need a few more details to properly assess what's going on!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    tone@troybuiltmodels.com
    http://www.troybuiltmodels.com

  10. #10

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models


    ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

    Really.

    This is a non-issue.



    No one is forced to buy this.

    Steve
    You are correct. No one is forced to buy, however when the folks that can barley afford these planes, are priced out then the stores that sell these items quite often stop selling them because not enough of the rich is buying. So after a while even those with deep pockets will find it difficult or impossible to get planes that they want that was once just a mouse click away. You don`t think so. Try finding Byron or some of the other planes of the 80s and 90s. When they stop selling they are gone for good. They may be another manufacturer that come in and take up the void space but that is a maybe and at what cost. So you see it is an issue, maybe not for you with spare money and lots of options but its not that way for most in the hobby.
    91-Zulu

  11. #11

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models


    ORIGINAL: Tone Price

    Luft-Gangster, I'm sorry to hear it's still locking up, do you have any problems on any other websites at all? IE-8 should handle the website just fine so the problem may involve your ram.

    I do not know your exact configuration but depending on when you purchased your computer it could only have 128mb-256mb of ram which is low. In that case you would be able to purchase some ram (512mb) for around $20. It's very common to do this upgrade especially on older computers.

    Please see my attachment to this post. On your computer, check your task manager's Performance tab. If your PF is near it's limit this is what could be causing the lockups.

    I appreciate you giving it another shot. If you'd like, please shoot me an email at tone@troybuiltmodels.com and I can help you get your system running as smooth as possible for as little as possible. I'll need a few more details to properly assess what's going on!

    1024 RAM but I can double that with 2 expansion slots open.
    I will be at Toledo
    Thanks
    Leroy

  12. #12
    Tone Price's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    1024 should be more than enough for normal internet browsing and simple applications, next time the computer locks up take a look at your performance tab and let me know what you see!
    tone@troybuiltmodels.com
    http://www.troybuiltmodels.com

  13. #13
    SCALECRAFT's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    91zulu

    With all due respect.

    I do not believe in price fixing (monopoly, or wage fixing, unions).

    "however when the folks that can barely afford these planes". This is what I believe is the problem here.

    Why would someone who can barley afford a toy like this even consider it? One does not have to be rich ( what ever that means) to have things they want, just financially responsible.

    I have know people who make tons of money, yet have less of it than the person who manage his well. Getting "rich" for most ( not all) is a plan, not a gift.

    Byron had a good run. Ironbay is what failed, not Byron. But still, a Byron can be had. Nothing special really though.

    And let's not forget, not too long ago modelers were paying around $500.00 plus shipping for pretty much the same model. Remember KMT or something like that.

    Just a thought.

    Steve

  14. #14
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    Ladies and Gents,

    For what its worth...I did mess up when adding on the T-6 TEXAN to our website (yes I am the garbage man, website maintainer, order taker and etc. etc. etc.,,, Just my wife and I)
    I will always honor a price on our website... I did mess up the price when doing the website late at night and I never caught it until I had an order and then realized the customer got to buy it for less than dealer cost...
    I ended up losing $$$ on the entire order BUT I did honor the price on the model and never gave the customer any
    issues with the order... just thanked them for the business and moved on!
    but hopefully by processing the order I gained a customer for life...

    I am glad for all of our customers and look forward to working with EVERYONE in the future...
    VQ is a part time operation not a full time endeavor... we are true MOM and POP run business and between
    our full time real jobs we pride ourselves in serving our fellow WARBIRD LOVERS ! we dont really
    ever carry CIVILIAN aircraft unless they are directly related to military service!

    BTW, if you have emailed us recently,,, we are catching up on all our emails now......

    -CHEERS!

    -TOMAS
    VQ WARBIRDS
    "KEEP 'EM FLYING"

    www.vqwarbirds.com
    info@vqwarbirds
    R/C WARBIRDS / RC TANKS ENTHUSIAST
    VQ WARBIRDS, KMP, & RCV

  15. #15

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    So if Troy is the distributor is Arf Pros still the importer?

    Ed
    \"there are fighters and there are targets\"

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

    91zulu

    With all due respect.

    I do not believe in price fixing (monopoly, or wage fixing, unions).

    ''however when the folks that can barely afford these planes''. This is what I believe is the problem here.

    Why would someone who can barley afford a toy like this even consider it? One does not have to be rich ( what ever that means) to have things they want, just financially responsible.

    I have know people who make tons of money, yet have less of it than the person who manage his well. Getting ''rich'' for most ( not all) is a plan, not a gift.

    Byron had a good run. Ironbay is what failed, not Byron. But still, a Byron can be had. Nothing special really though.

    And let's not forget, not too long ago modelers were paying around $500.00 plus shipping for pretty much the same model. Remember KMT or something like that.

    Just a thought.

    Steve

    I do not believe in price fixing (monopoly, or wage fixing, unions).

    I see you mentioned unions , you forgot to mention the folks in wall street that is fixing the price of gas that is having a bigger impact on us all, the corrupted banks and so much more. I don`t want to get into that but I think there is a lot more of a wage fixing and monopoly at the upper corporate level than unions. That`s how the middle class was formed. Unless you think a CEO wage of $150 million a year is fair and a union worker that is ACTUALLY PRODUCING something and is making $60/$70 thousand a year is too much.

    Why would someone who can barley afford a toy like this even consider it?


    For the same reason Americans buy more houses, cars, planes, boats and furs than they need and can afford. Its the way it is.

    And you know,whether it is ESM , VQ or the auto dealer they are all well aware of this I`m sure. These businesses depends on not only the folks that can afford what they are selling but those who can`t. How long do you think this hobby will exist if it depends on only those that can afford it?
    91-Zulu

  17. #17

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    ORIGINAL: TBMcustomerservice

    To follow up on one customers complaint from the last thread regarding an issue between TBM and VQ warbirds, the advertised price on VQ's was a mistake on VQ's part. I just want to let everyone know that it was a mistake, and in no way shape or form would we participate in any form of Price Fixing. I notified VQ of the issue and it was corrected promptly. In addition to that, the day the customer called was the day that we implemented the price changes.

    We are not out to get our customers, make a quick buck, or over charge anyone. We are charging what we need to charge to stay in business, keep bringing these great planes to you, and bring this product to market. As Tone has mentioned, we have changed our pricing once again to better suit you guys, and show you in no way shape or form do we try and profit on the shipping. We pass all of our discounts on to the customer to stay competitive.

    We have always tried to offer the lowest possible pricing on our wares to help out the fellow modeller, and we will continue to do so. We completely understand this hobby grows increasingly more expensive, and we try our hardest to ensure it doesnt get so expensive that it turns customers away.
    I am the potential customer from the other threads that saw the planes on vq for cheaper and Inquired and was told Tbm wasn't going to sell it to me for that price and neither can vq. Tomas mistakes happen and Kudos for taking care of and keeping that customer that caught your mistake and took advantage of It, Kudos. let me Be clear It Isn't about the price because the price was $449 back in 2009 so when I saw $389 for the plane on Tbm's website my friends and I thought it was a deal, we made a group trip to graves this past weekend and each spent a minimum of $1000 and that doesn't include planes (blackhorse 50cc Edge 540 v3 $620.) Maybe It was the "They get them from Us" Tone or the complete lack of regard for common business practice because if a customer called me trying to buy an Item and I can't match someone else's price I would at least sell him for the price I have advertised ($389) and not the price I'm about to change it to ($449)because I now have Interest In that product...mmmmm. See why people Would automatically assume you're trying to make a quick buck?. Sad Part Is we're still hunting and searching for a T-28 and the biggest one we can find Is the Black horse 120 which Is too small while Tbm right down the street with perfect size (for us) T-28 ...

    Kevin
    When you\'\'re not in the Fasst lane you can always depend on JR to Feel the Difference...in your wallet...

  18. #18
    SCALECRAFT's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models


    ORIGINAL: 91zulu

    ORIGINAL: SCALECRAFT

    91zulu

    With all due respect.

    I do not believe in price fixing (monopoly, or wage fixing, unions).

    ''however when the folks that can barely afford these planes''. This is what I believe is the problem here.

    Why would someone who can barley afford a toy like this even consider it? One does not have to be rich ( what ever that means) to have things they want, just financially responsible.

    I have know people who make tons of money, yet have less of it than the person who manage his well. Getting ''rich'' for most ( not all) is a plan, not a gift.

    Byron had a good run. Ironbay is what failed, not Byron. But still, a Byron can be had. Nothing special really though.

    And let's not forget, not too long ago modelers were paying around $500.00 plus shipping for pretty much the same model. Remember KMT or something like that.

    Just a thought.

    Steve

    I do not believe in price fixing (monopoly, or wage fixing, unions).

    I see you mentioned unions , you forgot to mention the folks in wall street that is fixing the price of gas that is having a bigger impact on us all, the corrupted banks and so much more. I don`t want to get into that but I think there is a lot more of a wage fixing and monopoly at the upper corporate level than unions. That`s how the middle class was formed. Unless you think a CEO wage of $150 million a year is fair and a union worker that is ACTUALLY PRODUCING something and is making $60/$70 thousand a year is too much.

    Why would someone who can barley afford a toy like this even consider it?


    For the same reason Americans buy more houses, cars, planes, boats and furs than they need and can afford. Its the way it is.

    And you know,whether it is ESM , VQ or the auto dealer they are all well aware of this I`m sure. These businesses depends on not only the folks that can afford what they are selling but those who can`t. How long do you think this hobby will exist if it depends on only those that can afford it?
    WOW. This is why the US is owned by the Chinese.

    Steve

  19. #19

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    Maybe, but that`s how your country was built. Spend more than you have. If it is good for big companies and wall street, why not the little guy.
    Why do you think credit was invented? It is to get you to spend what you don`t have. I`m sure you use it.
    91-Zulu

  20. #20

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    What a bunch of crybabies.......Even at $350.00 the 71" to 73" planes are still a bargin. Compair them to the TF ARF's.
    Carl Goldberg Ultimate Brotherhood # 60.

  21. #21
    SCALECRAFT's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models


    ORIGINAL: 91zulu

    Maybe, but that`s how your country was built. Spend more than you have. If it is good for big companies and wall street, why not the little guy.
    Why do you think credit was invented? It is to get you to spend what you don`t have. I`m sure you use it.

    We are from entirely different schools of financial thought. Which is ok.

    I used to use credit, but now don't have to or want to. If i do, I pay in full before I get dinged for interest. But it takes a plan. Many many people are changing the way they just enslave themselves to debt. Once they wise up of course. But, it takes sacrifice for a time.

    Find david ramsey on the radio, listen to some of the callers. My little kids manage their money better.

    It's very liberating not be indebted.

    But still, the price of these models for what they are is very good.

    I like the SBD.

    Steve

  22. #22
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    I have always felt that the ESM models were very fairly priced. In fact, there is no way you could build these planes for the price. If it were not for ESM, there would not be nearly as many warbirds at the flying field. The price increases are reasonable, and I feel this is a non issue really.
    Let's just say, they will be satisfied with less. " Ming the Merciless


    BUSA Bro # 13

  23. #23

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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    Now that all the sellers are looking in. Can something be done about the quality of the plastic parts in the kits? My new 72" spitfire has plastic rads, wheel well liners, wing blisters, and canopy. The stuff is so thin and brittle that I can't stop cracking them just handling them. And I am cafefull. I thought China was the King of plastic? So why can't we get decent plastic parts? I know they are light, and that is a good thing, but more important, they have to be strong enough to use.

    I could stand a small price increase if better quality components was in fact going to be incorperated.

    Overall, I think the price is fair, and understand with higher quality comes higher price( usually ).

    Tom

  24. #24
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models


    ORIGINAL: Me410

    Now that all the sellers are looking in. Can something be done about the quality of the plastic parts in the kits? My new 72'' spitfire has plastic rads, wheel well liners, wing blisters, and canopy. The stuff is so thin and brittle that I can't stop cracking themΒ* just handling them. And I am cafefull.Β* I thought China was the King of plastic? So why can't we get decent plastic parts? I know they are light, and that is a good thing, but more important, they have to be strong enough to use.

    I could stand a small price increase if better quality components was in fact going to be incorperated.

    Overall, I think the price is fair, and understand with higher quality comes higher priceΒ*( usually ).

    Tom
    Could these parts be fiberglassed on the inside before installed? Or do they already come glued to the plane?
    Let's just say, they will be satisfied with less. " Ming the Merciless


    BUSA Bro # 13

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    RE: ESM Price Increase from Troy Built Models

    I am making replacement parts for some of these kits from high quality plastic... if someone will send me their originals, I will make the parts out of good stuff.

    It would be nice if the originals were better... the poor quality was why I started doing it.
    Firepower R/C
    Saving un-loved R/C airplanes around the world


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