TF FW190 GIANT ARF
01-01-2016, 05:45 PM
#4076
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Espanola, NM
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Hey, check out Hector's JOB on the cowl! It's from a forum site he sent to me 
The translator is so-so but the pics are worth their weight in gold!
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...ic%3D41221.345
The translator is so-so but the pics are worth their weight in gold!
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/b...ic%3D41221.345
01-08-2016, 08:32 AM
#4077
Thanks Tony, that explains it. The Sierra gear will still be angled in too far after mounting with those conversion inserts. That doesn't mean they won't work. The Sierra gear is very strong and will take the extra strain of the angle. Be aware that the wheels will not be perpendicular with the ground, so you have some added stress on the wheels. Bearings of some sort are a must (I melted the plastic on the williams bros. wheels with a taxi test before I added bearings). Also the gear is angled in even farther than the standard FW190 angle, which is substantial. It all adds up to more chance of a ground loop due to the reduced stance width and angle of the wheels. Smooth surface runways cause the most issues, on grass it's much less of a problem.
The gear needs to retract into the wing and sit flush, so you can't change that location. Without modifying the gear there's no way to get the angles correct. (Mention was made of modifying the wing dihedral, but that would be very difficult)
Here's a drawing that shows the issue.
The gear needs to retract into the wing and sit flush, so you can't change that location. Without modifying the gear there's no way to get the angles correct. (Mention was made of modifying the wing dihedral, but that would be very difficult)
Here's a drawing that shows the issue.
I then transfered the locations of the wing dowl pin alignment holes and lightening holes from the number 1 rib in the wing halves to the new rib/shim. Then used my drill press to drill the dowl pin alignment holes in the rib/shim. I then placed the new rib/shim between the two wing halves to confirm the fit, both wing halves fit together very nicely. I rechecked the dihedral and both wing halves read 5 degrees.
All I have left to do is open up the lightening holes in the new rib/ship and then make a new 5 degree wing joiner. I will finish these two tasks this weekend and will then post photos of my accomplishment.
Roger
01-09-2016, 08:46 AM
#4078
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Changing the wing dihedral to 5 degrees was fairly easy, it only took the better part of an hour to manufacture a center wing rib/shim from a piece of spruce. I set my table saw blade to provide a 3 degree angle cut. After I finished rough cutting the new rib/shim, I used my Jointer planer to finish the rib/shim to final dimensional thickness.
I then transfered the locations of the wing dowl pin alignment holes and lightening holes from the number 1 rib in the wing halves to the new rib/shim. Then used my drill press to drill the dowl pin alignment holes in the rib/shim. I then placed the new rib/shim between the two wing halves to confirm the fit, both wing halves fit together very nicely. I rechecked the dihedral and both wing halves read 5 degrees.
All I have left to do is open up the lightening holes in the new rib/ship and then make a new 5 degree wing joiner. I will finish these two tasks this weekend and will then post photos of my accomplishment.
Roger
I then transfered the locations of the wing dowl pin alignment holes and lightening holes from the number 1 rib in the wing halves to the new rib/shim. Then used my drill press to drill the dowl pin alignment holes in the rib/shim. I then placed the new rib/shim between the two wing halves to confirm the fit, both wing halves fit together very nicely. I rechecked the dihedral and both wing halves read 5 degrees.
All I have left to do is open up the lightening holes in the new rib/ship and then make a new 5 degree wing joiner. I will finish these two tasks this weekend and will then post photos of my accomplishment.
Roger
What was the thickness of your shim at the bottom of the wing?
thnx
Dan
Last edited by deadstick79; 01-09-2016 at 02:03 PM.
01-09-2016, 09:28 PM
#4079
Hi Dan, no I do not have the inserts, 3/8" width at the bottom of wing. The photos show the wing with stock 2 degree dihedral and with modified shim giving the wing 5 degree dihedral, also the 3 degree shim and new 5 degree wing joiner and longer wing alignment dowl pins.
Roger
Roger
Last edited by ForcesR; 01-09-2016 at 09:34 PM.
01-10-2016, 09:25 AM
#4080
Join Date: Oct 2012
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[QUOTE=ForcesR;12158940]Hi Dan, no I do not have the inserts, 3/8" width at the bottom of wing. The photos show the wing with stock 2 degree dihedral and with modified shim giving the wing 5 degree dihedral, also the 3 degree shim and new 5 degree wing joiner and longer wing alignment dowl pins.
Roger[/QUOTE Hey Roger, ]Excellent! Do the leading edge pins still line up with the holes in the fuse?
I have the wing inserts and they're ready to be epoxied in with some adapting that I did! I'll post pics (phone) soon!
Thanks for the info
Dan
Roger[/QUOTE Hey Roger, ]Excellent! Do the leading edge pins still line up with the holes in the fuse?
I have the wing inserts and they're ready to be epoxied in with some adapting that I did! I'll post pics (phone) soon!
Thanks for the info
Dan
01-10-2016, 09:47 AM
#4081
Hi Dan, no I do not have the inserts, 3/8" width at the bottom of wing. The photos show the wing with stock 2 degree dihedral and with modified shim giving the wing 5 degree dihedral, also the 3 degree shim and new 5 degree wing joiner and longer wing alignment dowl pins.
Roger
Roger
I sent you a PM.
Carlos
01-10-2016, 01:19 PM
#4082
[QUOTE=deadstick79;12159084]
Good day Dan, I have not checked yet but I am sure they will be a little off center but that will be an easy thing to correct.
Roger
Hi Dan, no I do not have the inserts, 3/8" width at the bottom of wing. The photos show the wing with stock 2 degree dihedral and with modified shim giving the wing 5 degree dihedral, also the 3 degree shim and new 5 degree wing joiner and longer wing alignment dowl pins.
Roger[/QUOTE Hey Roger, ]Excellent! Do the leading edge pins still line up with the holes in the fuse?
I have the wing inserts and they're ready to be epoxied in with some adapting that I did! I'll post pics (phone) soon!
Thanks for the info
Dan
Roger[/QUOTE Hey Roger, ]Excellent! Do the leading edge pins still line up with the holes in the fuse?
I have the wing inserts and they're ready to be epoxied in with some adapting that I did! I'll post pics (phone) soon!
Thanks for the info
Dan
Roger
01-11-2016, 09:56 AM
#4083
Good info. For some reason I was thinking the wing had a tube in it. That would have made it much harder to modify. As it is your added dihedral should allow the Sierra gear to work perfectly.
Shouldn't affect the flying characteristics, other than make it a bit more scale during rolls and such.
Too bad the mod is actually quite difficult, AFTER the wing has been glued together.
Shouldn't affect the flying characteristics, other than make it a bit more scale during rolls and such.
Too bad the mod is actually quite difficult, AFTER the wing has been glued together.
01-11-2016, 12:29 PM
#4084
Senior Member
Good info. For some reason I was thinking the wing had a tube in it. That would have made it much harder to modify. As it is your added dihedral should allow the Sierra gear to work perfectly.
Shouldn't affect the flying characteristics, other than make it a bit more scale during rolls and such.
Too bad the mod is actually quite difficult, AFTER the wing has been glued together.
Shouldn't affect the flying characteristics, other than make it a bit more scale during rolls and such.
Too bad the mod is actually quite difficult, AFTER the wing has been glued together.
It should make it a little more stable I would think. That puzzles me as to why Top Flite would reduce dihedral from scale as usually the opposite is done for added stability.
01-11-2016, 01:26 PM
#4085
Top Flite reducing the angle attempted to increase the lift of the wing. The problem is that increasing the angle you increase the stability of the aircraft, but lose the lift force. Another problem is when at a high angle of wing in a turn, the airflow at the wing tip, begins to flow from the bottom wing to the top, leads to reduced load-bearing properties and can lead to early failure in the corkscrew.
01-12-2016, 01:44 PM
#4087
I had information that Top Flite, the first models let out with an original profile and there were many complaints to stability of the plane. Then the company ordered research with a purge in a wind tunnel, in one of universities of the United States, on search of an optimum profile for this model. The optimum profile without damage of the copy was picked up. At me it is the first plane the copy of such scope, on it it is difficult for me to compare to something though there was at me FW-190 from the ESM company, scope of 1,86 cm and weighing 8,5 kg. The wing beat self-made, with an original profile and a negative twist on the end of the console. This plane was much more difficult in piloting. Very much it isn't steady at a small speed, I fell on a wing in a landing time.
Last edited by zadeda; 01-12-2016 at 01:50 PM.
01-12-2016, 03:08 PM
#4088
I believe that Top Flite hired Dr. Michael Selig to advise in the aerodynamics when the design for their big ARF's began. His background in engineering plus his experience in gliders resulted in designs that have nice low-speed character and generally fly well. Dihedral is not necessarily an asset in all designs. Sometimes it can result in unpleasant qualities. I don't think scale fidelity was the primary goal, instead flying character and marketability was foremost.
01-12-2016, 03:18 PM
#4089
Join Date: Oct 2012
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I too had an ESM FW 190D! It had an 86" wing span with Sierra retracts and a 50cc Turnigy motor on 12cells and she flew beautifully!
Dan
Dan
I had information that Top Flite, the first models let out with an original profile and there were many complaints to stability of the plane. Then the company ordered research with a purge in a wind tunnel, in one of universities of the United States, on search of an optimum profile for this model. The optimum profile without damage of the copy was picked up. At me it is the first plane the copy of such scope, on it it is difficult for me to compare to something though there was at me FW-190 from the ESM company, scope of 1,86 cm and weighing 8,5 kg. The wing beat self-made, with an original profile and a negative twist on the end of the console. This plane was much more difficult in piloting. Very much it isn't steady at a small speed, I fell on a wing in a landing time.
01-18-2016, 09:12 AM
#4090
[QUOTE=deadstick79;12159084]
Dan, how is the installation of the LG inserts coming along? It would be nice to see photos of the installation too. I was planning on manufacturing the LG rails for the Sierra gear installation myself but after viewing the photos on Skyshark's site, I may just order a set since they are very reasonably priced. I should receive my FG-60R3 this Friday, not sure how long it will take for the Keleo exhaust to arrive. In the mean time I will plug away at changing out the engine on my TF P-51D and replacing it with a DLE 55RA.
Roger
Hi Dan, no I do not have the inserts, 3/8" width at the bottom of wing. The photos show the wing with stock 2 degree dihedral and with modified shim giving the wing 5 degree dihedral, also the 3 degree shim and new 5 degree wing joiner and longer wing alignment dowl pins.
Roger[/QUOTE Hey Roger, ]Excellent! Do the leading edge pins still line up with the holes in the fuse?
I have the wing inserts and they're ready to be epoxied in with some adapting that I did! I'll post pics (phone) soon!
Thanks for the info
Dan
Roger[/QUOTE Hey Roger, ]Excellent! Do the leading edge pins still line up with the holes in the fuse?
I have the wing inserts and they're ready to be epoxied in with some adapting that I did! I'll post pics (phone) soon!
Thanks for the info
Dan
Roger
01-19-2016, 07:10 AM
#4091
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Dan, how is the installation of the LG inserts coming along? It would be nice to see photos of the installation too. I was planning on manufacturing the LG rails for the Sierra gear installation myself but after viewing the photos on Skyshark's site, I may just order a set since they are very reasonably priced. I should receive my FG-60R3 this Friday, not sure how long it will take for the Keleo exhaust to arrive. In the mean time I will plug away at changing out the engine on my TF P-51D and replacing it with a DLE 55RA.
Roger
I used a cheap small paint brush with laquer thinner to attack the glue that held in the original gear blocks and they came out readily with a channel locks pliers! I cut the plastic wheel wells to just outside of the length of the new gear insert mounting plate! Assembled the insert and test fit to see where further inner (toward wing root) cutouts had to be made! I lined the prepared square hole with wax paper, assembled the insert using Gorilla glue and installed it (minus the rail) and when it cured I lifted it out with no sticking to the wing
Then I cut 3/8" thick ply blocks to fit under the rail at both the aft and fore ends of the insert for more strength! I glued in the rear ones and will put the front ones in after I epoxy the insert in!
I don't know if the gear angle will be any better than before but will soon find out!
If not, are you open to making a wing root shim for me? I would gladly pay you for your trouble?
Will keep y'all posted!
Dan
01-20-2016, 06:16 AM
#4093
Dan; from viewing the photos of the LG inserts on Skyshank RC site, the inserts are only designed to allow easier installation of the Sierra LG and possibly allow for a little more forward rake of the gear. The Sierra LG will still be angled incorrectly due to the 2 degree dihedral of the stock ARF wing.
Sorry Dan; unfortunately I got burned doing similar work for an RC flyer from another forum, therefore I no longer take on manufacturing of RC aircraft components when requested through RC forums
If the request comes from a member of my flying club and I personally know the member then I will entertain the request.
There has to be a member at your RC flying club who has a table saw that would be able to cut a new center wing rib/shim for you?
Sorry Dan; unfortunately I got burned doing similar work for an RC flyer from another forum, therefore I no longer take on manufacturing of RC aircraft components when requested through RC forums
If the request comes from a member of my flying club and I personally know the member then I will entertain the request.There has to be a member at your RC flying club who has a table saw that would be able to cut a new center wing rib/shim for you?
Last edited by ForcesR; 01-20-2016 at 10:54 AM. Reason: word corrections
01-20-2016, 01:39 PM
#4095
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Dan; from viewing the photos of the LG inserts on Skyshank RC site, the inserts are only designed to allow easier installation of the Sierra LG and possibly allow for a little more forward rake of the gear. The Sierra LG will still be angled incorrectly due to the 2 degree dihedral of the stock ARF wing.
Sorry Dan; unfortunately I got burned doing similar work for an RC flyer from another forum, therefore I no longer take on manufacturing of RC aircraft components when requested through RC forums If the request comes from a member of my flying club and I personally know the member then I will entertain the request.
There has to be a member at your RC flying club who has a table saw that would be able to cut a new center wing rib/shim for you?
Sorry Dan; unfortunately I got burned doing similar work for an RC flyer from another forum, therefore I no longer take on manufacturing of RC aircraft components when requested through RC forums
If the request comes from a member of my flying club and I personally know the member then I will entertain the request.There has to be a member at your RC flying club who has a table saw that would be able to cut a new center wing rib/shim for you?
There is a family moving in next door and I seen his table saw! I'll take a couple beers over and introduce myself
I'm thinking that I'll stand a 2x4 up on the 1-1/2 and first cut the height measurement to match the height of the wing root then angle the table saw blade so that there is 3/8" difference and cut! My brother has a scroll saw so I'm in business!
01-20-2016, 01:44 PM
#4096
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No problemo! It's pretty easy, just time consuming
The assembly was a tad to tight in both length and width but a tad of shaving tabs and slots for the length and a dremel with sand drum to the leading edges of the ribs was golden!
You sure can't beat the price and the resulting strength is awesome!
Dan
The assembly was a tad to tight in both length and width but a tad of shaving tabs and slots for the length and a dremel with sand drum to the leading edges of the ribs was golden!
You sure can't beat the price and the resulting strength is awesome!
Dan