TF FW190 GIANT ARF
06-24-2015, 11:12 PM
#3876
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The Lado retracts look great...
I will try a set in my 60 size TF corsair.
If the work great, then I don't see why I wouldn't spend a few hundred more to get great retracts, instead of getting 500$ robarts and have to toss them....
From what I have seen, if you land good, then they will work out fine.... On the flip side, I would hate to wreck a day of flying all because I didn't land just right, due to any number of reasons.
I will try a set in my 60 size TF corsair.
If the work great, then I don't see why I wouldn't spend a few hundred more to get great retracts, instead of getting 500$ robarts and have to toss them....
From what I have seen, if you land good, then they will work out fine.... On the flip side, I would hate to wreck a day of flying all because I didn't land just right, due to any number of reasons.
Last edited by kochj; 06-25-2015 at 01:15 PM.
06-25-2015, 04:49 PM
#3877
My Feedback: (45)
The Lado retracts look great...
I will try a set in my 60 size TF corsair.
If the work great, then I don't see why I wouldn't spend a few hundred more to get great retracts, instead of getting 500$ robarts and have to toss them....
From what I have seen, if you land good, then they will work out fine.... On the flip side, I would hate to wreck a day of flying all because I didn't land just right, due to any number of reasons.
I will try a set in my 60 size TF corsair.
If the work great, then I don't see why I wouldn't spend a few hundred more to get great retracts, instead of getting 500$ robarts and have to toss them....
From what I have seen, if you land good, then they will work out fine.... On the flip side, I would hate to wreck a day of flying all because I didn't land just right, due to any number of reasons.
06-26-2015, 10:29 AM
#3879
SOFT ROBART RETRACT PINS
My friend and I recently figured out a way to use both pins with the Pneumatic retracts. We figured by using the dual pins we'd be twice as strong. We understand that a severe ground loop is very stressful, and something could bend even if it's built properly. Everything was fine, and it seemed that they were working well.
A very mild landing without even a ground loop caused BOTH pins to bend. I went to straighten them, and found that they bent with very little effort. My previous work as a materials analyst has me convinced that the new twin pin trunnions have much softer pins than those that we originally received on the gear. I had straightened the old single pin trunnions a few times, so I knew what it would take to bend them and straighten them. There is no doubt, the new trunnions have soft pins. To make matters worse we threw in an extra gear that we had with a single pin, and it was also soft and bent right away. The problem is not confined to the new twin pin trunnions.
After contacting Robart, they claimed there has been no difference in their processes or materials. I sent in all the trunnions (the old ones that seemed harder, and the new "soft" ones. We'll see what they find out. In any case, with the soft pins these retracts are unusable. If your only using one pin, it's even worse.
Unless they fix this issue, Great Planes will end up selling very few of these. There is no way you can prevent bending if the pins are not hard enough.
My friend and I recently figured out a way to use both pins with the Pneumatic retracts. We figured by using the dual pins we'd be twice as strong. We understand that a severe ground loop is very stressful, and something could bend even if it's built properly. Everything was fine, and it seemed that they were working well.
A very mild landing without even a ground loop caused BOTH pins to bend. I went to straighten them, and found that they bent with very little effort. My previous work as a materials analyst has me convinced that the new twin pin trunnions have much softer pins than those that we originally received on the gear. I had straightened the old single pin trunnions a few times, so I knew what it would take to bend them and straighten them. There is no doubt, the new trunnions have soft pins. To make matters worse we threw in an extra gear that we had with a single pin, and it was also soft and bent right away. The problem is not confined to the new twin pin trunnions.
After contacting Robart, they claimed there has been no difference in their processes or materials. I sent in all the trunnions (the old ones that seemed harder, and the new "soft" ones. We'll see what they find out. In any case, with the soft pins these retracts are unusable. If your only using one pin, it's even worse.
Unless they fix this issue, Great Planes will end up selling very few of these. There is no way you can prevent bending if the pins are not hard enough.
06-26-2015, 10:37 AM
#3880
Thanks for that update Hot Rod. My FW-190 is sitting in my basement ready to go except for the retracts. I don't trust the Robarts so I am thinking I might be forced to buy a set of Sierra gear and do the mod. I didn't want to mod the rails but there are just way too many issues with these gear. Sounds like a very poor design. I think the legs are just too long and require a support.
06-26-2015, 10:46 AM
#3881
SOFT ROBART RETRACT PINS
My friend and I recently figured out a way to use both pins with the Pneumatic retracts. We figured by using the dual pins we'd be twice as strong. We understand that a severe ground loop is very stressful, and something could bend even if it's built properly. Everything was fine, and it seemed that they were working well.
A very mild landing without even a ground loop caused BOTH pins to bend. I went to straighten them, and found that they bent with very little effort. My previous work as a materials analyst has me convinced that the new twin pin trunnions have much softer pins than those that we originally received on the gear. I had straightened the old single pin trunnions a few times, so I knew what it would take to bend them and straighten them. There is no doubt, the new trunnions have soft pins. To make matters worse we threw in an extra gear that we had with a single pin, and it was also soft and bent right away. The problem is not confined to the new twin pin trunnions.
After contacting Robart, they claimed there has been no difference in their processes or materials. I sent in all the trunnions (the old ones that seemed harder, and the new "soft" ones. We'll see what they find out. In any case, with the soft pins these retracts are unusable. If your only using one pin, it's even worse.
Unless they fix this issue, Great Planes will end up selling very few of these. There is no way you can prevent bending if the pins are not hard enough.
My friend and I recently figured out a way to use both pins with the Pneumatic retracts. We figured by using the dual pins we'd be twice as strong. We understand that a severe ground loop is very stressful, and something could bend even if it's built properly. Everything was fine, and it seemed that they were working well.
A very mild landing without even a ground loop caused BOTH pins to bend. I went to straighten them, and found that they bent with very little effort. My previous work as a materials analyst has me convinced that the new twin pin trunnions have much softer pins than those that we originally received on the gear. I had straightened the old single pin trunnions a few times, so I knew what it would take to bend them and straighten them. There is no doubt, the new trunnions have soft pins. To make matters worse we threw in an extra gear that we had with a single pin, and it was also soft and bent right away. The problem is not confined to the new twin pin trunnions.
After contacting Robart, they claimed there has been no difference in their processes or materials. I sent in all the trunnions (the old ones that seemed harder, and the new "soft" ones. We'll see what they find out. In any case, with the soft pins these retracts are unusable. If your only using one pin, it's even worse.
Unless they fix this issue, Great Planes will end up selling very few of these. There is no way you can prevent bending if the pins are not hard enough.
Seems that would tell U if they are in dead softer than the old pins.
06-26-2015, 10:55 AM
#3882
Be aware Tony that the Sierra mod is not a perfect answer. I have the plane built by Ramstein44, and there are many issues other than the major mods to install. For one, the dihedral on the Sierra gear is way off. They are made to fit the SisT 190's that have scale dihedral in the wing. This puts the gear at an even more severe angle leaning inward, and the axles are not in line with the ground. Also, the toe-in on the Sierra gear is not adjustable. I am checking to see if I can re-drill the roll pin hole and re-set the toe to give some of the Toe-out needed that prevents the gear from tucking under.
I think the toe-in problem is fixable, but I'm in the process of contacting Darrell to see if he could make some different linkage to allow them to retract out farther. Here's a photo of the gear. Not easy to tell, but at the current angle they are prone to "tuck under' on me. Also, because of the angle on the axles I had to put bearings all the way through. There was enough side load that the axles would melt the Williams Bros. wheels without bearings.
Here's a photo so you can get an idea of the angle. Not easy to see, but it's enough to cause issues even with the strong Sierra gear.
I think the toe-in problem is fixable, but I'm in the process of contacting Darrell to see if he could make some different linkage to allow them to retract out farther. Here's a photo of the gear. Not easy to tell, but at the current angle they are prone to "tuck under' on me. Also, because of the angle on the axles I had to put bearings all the way through. There was enough side load that the axles would melt the Williams Bros. wheels without bearings.
Here's a photo so you can get an idea of the angle. Not easy to see, but it's enough to cause issues even with the strong Sierra gear.
06-26-2015, 11:00 AM
#3883
If this issue persists with no fix, I may have to pull some favors and get some testing done to provide more concrete evidence as to what is going on with the pins. It's possible that the dual pins require two welding steps and cause the piece to get hotter. If they are air cooled too slowly, the pins could get soft. That theory doesn't hold though since I found a single pin trunion that seemed softer than the older versions I had.
06-26-2015, 12:24 PM
#3885
Thanks for that update Hot Rod. My FW-190 is sitting in my basement ready to go except for the retracts. I don't trust the Robarts so I am thinking I might be forced to buy a set of Sierra gear and do the mod. I didn't want to mod the rails but there are just way too many issues with these gear. Sounds like a very poor design. I think the legs are just too long and require a support.
Lots of flights.
The air retract version from Robart is holding very well.
Knock on wood.
Joe at Robart said clearly to us on a separate thread that the first batches that was shipped, had softer materials by mistake.
Remember, there is a thread somewhere here regarding just this issue. But to find it now......
Whatever they say now, when you call them, and talk to some "manager", I dont think they will admit this.
Either wont admit it, or dont have a clue. Probably too busy going to meetings, discussing powerpoint issues.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if everywhere we buy Robrts now, they keep pushing the "old soft" version, until they can restock.
Last edited by kwik; 06-26-2015 at 12:26 PM.
06-26-2015, 12:37 PM
#3886
My older version single pin trunnions have much harder pins than the latest twin pin versions. The soft pinned trunnions I am referring to are less than one month old from Robart. Maybe they are selling old stock? Maybe they had a batch of soft ones that are out there? I don't know. All I know is that a very recent order of Robart parts came to me with the soft pins. Robart never admitted they had any difference between parts on the phone. I sent them all in, we'll see if they have any harder pinned versions to replace them with. It's not too hard to tell the difference. Put a small amount of force on the soft pins and they bend. The harder pins may move, but the snap back.
We may never know if Robart knows the entire truth. Doubtful they would release it in any case.
We may never know if Robart knows the entire truth. Doubtful they would release it in any case.
06-26-2015, 01:34 PM
#3887
I just saw that Joe is no longer working for Robart. That is a great loss for for Robart, and for us;
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-w...ht-robart.html
I am sure such a helpfull and hard working guy will have no problems getting a job elsewhere. at least I hope so.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-w...ht-robart.html
I am sure such a helpfull and hard working guy will have no problems getting a job elsewhere. at least I hope so.
Last edited by kwik; 06-26-2015 at 01:43 PM.
06-26-2015, 02:36 PM
#3888
My Feedback: (45)
I have been flying mine quite a while now. Lots of hard turns on the ground after landing.
Lots of flights.
The air retract version from Robart is holding very well.
Knock on wood.
Joe at Robart said clearly to us on a separate thread that the first batches that was shipped, had softer materials by mistake.
Remember, there is a thread somewhere here regarding just this issue. But to find it now......
Whatever they say now, when you call them, and talk to some "manager", I dont think they will admit this.
Either wont admit it, or dont have a clue. Probably too busy going to meetings, discussing powerpoint issues.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if everywhere we buy Robrts now, they keep pushing the "old soft" version, until they can restock.
Lots of flights.
The air retract version from Robart is holding very well.
Knock on wood.
Joe at Robart said clearly to us on a separate thread that the first batches that was shipped, had softer materials by mistake.
Remember, there is a thread somewhere here regarding just this issue. But to find it now......
Whatever they say now, when you call them, and talk to some "manager", I dont think they will admit this.
Either wont admit it, or dont have a clue. Probably too busy going to meetings, discussing powerpoint issues.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if everywhere we buy Robrts now, they keep pushing the "old soft" version, until they can restock.
06-26-2015, 07:41 PM
#3889
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Be aware Tony that the Sierra mod is not a perfect answer. I have the plane built by Ramstein44, and there are many issues other than the major mods to install. For one, the dihedral on the Sierra gear is way off. They are made to fit the SisT 190's that have scale dihedral in the wing. This puts the gear at an even more severe angle leaning inward, and the axles are not in line with the ground. Also, the toe-in on the Sierra gear is not adjustable. I am checking to see if I can re-drill the roll pin hole and re-set the toe to give some of the Toe-out needed that prevents the gear from tucking under.
I think the toe-in problem is fixable, but I'm in the process of contacting Darrell to see if he could make some different linkage to allow them to retract out farther. Here's a photo of the gear. Not easy to tell, but at the current angle they are prone to "tuck under' on me. Also, because of the angle on the axles I had to put bearings all the way through. There was enough side load that the axles would melt the Williams Bros. wheels without bearings.
Here's a photo so you can get an idea of the angle. Not easy to see, but it's enough to cause issues even with the strong Sierra gear.
I think the toe-in problem is fixable, but I'm in the process of contacting Darrell to see if he could make some different linkage to allow them to retract out farther. Here's a photo of the gear. Not easy to tell, but at the current angle they are prone to "tuck under' on me. Also, because of the angle on the axles I had to put bearings all the way through. There was enough side load that the axles would melt the Williams Bros. wheels without bearings.
Here's a photo so you can get an idea of the angle. Not easy to see, but it's enough to cause issues even with the strong Sierra gear.
The lado retracts infinite angle options to give the correct fit.
I am surprised that others have not been using them
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gyG1KRz91Ho&t=55
Last edited by kochj; 06-26-2015 at 07:45 PM.
06-26-2015, 11:34 PM
#3890
The Sierra is made for planes with Scale Dihedral. Like e.g. all the other Focke Wulfs out there.
The Top Flite Focke Wulf dihedral is way off, which of course for us warbird-fans is a big, big. dissapointment.
The Robarts is buildt light in contrary to the Sierras, and all this is done, of course, in order to get as light a warbird as possible.
And they succeded, because mine weights 13.5 kg's, and can be flown with an FG-57.
Very sad that Robart failed in this cruicial point of an otherwise wonderful gear.
06-28-2015, 06:58 PM
#3891
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My plane is on the way! I am needing suggestions on engine size. I would like to put an 85cc on in her. Anyone have this size motor in theirs? If it seems like that is not going to work out ,I was thinking about a da 60 swinging a three blade.
06-29-2015, 04:19 AM
#3892
Senior Member
Well now, in my opinion it is a bit opposite;
The Sierra is made for planes with Scale Dihedral. Like e.g. all the other Focke Wulfs out there.
The Top Flite Focke Wulf dihedral is way off, which of course for us warbird-fans is a big, big. dissapointment.
The Robarts is buildt light in contrary to the Sierras, and all this is done, of course, in order to get as light a warbird as possible.
And they succeded, because mine weights 13.5 kg's, and can be flown with an FG-57.
Very sad that Robart failed in this cruicial point of an otherwise wonderful gear.
The Sierra is made for planes with Scale Dihedral. Like e.g. all the other Focke Wulfs out there.
The Top Flite Focke Wulf dihedral is way off, which of course for us warbird-fans is a big, big. dissapointment.
The Robarts is buildt light in contrary to the Sierras, and all this is done, of course, in order to get as light a warbird as possible.
And they succeded, because mine weights 13.5 kg's, and can be flown with an FG-57.
Very sad that Robart failed in this cruicial point of an otherwise wonderful gear.
06-29-2015, 04:59 AM
#3893
Kwik, I'm aware that the Top Flite Dihedral is wrong. That's what makes the Sierra gear way off. They are correct for the accurate SisT, making them wrong for the Top Flite.
cmdiduca: Not sure why you'd want a DA-85 on this plane. With a DLE-55 and 22x10 prop it moves out very well. The vibration with the large engine on a plane this light would be a never ending nuisance. The large 3-blade prop would look good on the ground, no different in the air though. I'd say the DLE-61 would be a good choice.
SrTelemaster150: Adding the second trunnion block should solve the issue, except the new twin pin trunnions are so soft that both pins bend with less force than one good single pin. In fact, the pins on the soft dual pins even bend in the middle. On the old single pin versions I had they would only bend at the base of the pin.
cmdiduca: Not sure why you'd want a DA-85 on this plane. With a DLE-55 and 22x10 prop it moves out very well. The vibration with the large engine on a plane this light would be a never ending nuisance. The large 3-blade prop would look good on the ground, no different in the air though. I'd say the DLE-61 would be a good choice.
SrTelemaster150: Adding the second trunnion block should solve the issue, except the new twin pin trunnions are so soft that both pins bend with less force than one good single pin. In fact, the pins on the soft dual pins even bend in the middle. On the old single pin versions I had they would only bend at the base of the pin.
Last edited by Hot Rod Todd; 06-29-2015 at 05:02 AM.
06-29-2015, 12:07 PM
#3895
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It's not. but you have to land straight and keep the roll out straight. Just got in 3 flights this morning and no issues. I do use a gyro for the rudder set to heading hold on landing and takeoff. Air strip is concrete. Also wheels are toed out 2 to 5 degrees. I think they are fine.
06-29-2015, 12:43 PM
#3896
My Feedback: (45)
It's not. but you have to land straight and keep the roll out straight. Just got in 3 flights this morning and no issues. I do use a gyro for the rudder set to heading hold on landing and takeoff. Air strip is concrete. Also wheels are toed out 2 to 5 degrees. I think they are fine.
06-29-2015, 12:55 PM
#3897
Sierra has that link up at the wing. It stiffens the setup exactly where you need it.
In the beginning the links where aluminum. Now they are steel. And for a reason.
Here you can see such a turn, which bendt the link slightly, but not much;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtRI0P2mTS8
Not sure the Robarts would be able to take such a turn with the Top Flite. Without the link.
The Vailly weights 17.5 kg. The Top Flite 13.5 kg.
So, in my opinion I think we will have to accept that we must try avoid such turns. Or do repairs.
It isnt a 3-D plane, its a (semi) scale warbird.
I had to do it, since the flaps servo's had burned and the landing speed was too high.
06-29-2015, 01:47 PM
#3898
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I hear you. However I have had mine since October 2012. And yes I have bent rods back in place but don't mind the repairs. Quick really.
i like the plane and the gear. I'd rather a bent rod than a destroyed gear pocket that's tougher to rebuild.
i like the plane and the gear. I'd rather a bent rod than a destroyed gear pocket that's tougher to rebuild.
06-29-2015, 01:56 PM
#3899
I did have to do a belly landing last weekend, though. The gear is still pressed up against the wheel well, even after a set of shims was installed.
Last edited by kwik; 06-29-2015 at 02:02 PM.