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150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:24 PM
  #326
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

With record time that you built it Thomas, don't really call your maiden a bad day. Great work and can't wait I see this on 12s.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:10 PM
  #327
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

If you replaced the ducted fans with jets. I would assume that you'd need to think carefully about heat with the thrust tubes through the fuse and then down the back. It would require more than FlightMetal.

But... maybe there would also be the advantage of a single engine being enough?

I love it as a ducted fan bird. I learned a ton from your thread. Thank you!

-Skip
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:42 PM
  #328
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

I just caught up and I remain impressed, very impressed with this project and your results. Sorry about the bad ESC but beyond that I write this up as a success. An ambitious project and you pulled it off. 

Sounds like you got caught in the worst possible scenario and got it down with relatively minor damage.  Keep going! 

Whit
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:48 PM
  #329
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Thanks everyone!

We both are very pleased with the outcome of this project and look at yesterdays flight as a complete success, even with the small setback with the esc failure.


Over the next week or two, i will be prepping an airplane for topgun and shipping it to its new owner and tom and myself will be doing the layup on horton #2! Once those two items are done, horton #1 will come back into the shop and get repaired and the nose gear and power system upgrades.

Stay tuned for phase 2 of this project, we still have another one to build!
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:22 PM
  #330
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229


Quote:
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

What a great project! You guys to an amazing job as well. So nice to see this aircraft modeled, one of my all time favorites.

I have to say though, the issues you are having are exactly why I hate electrics. I know it is viable, and turbines are so expensive, but that is the way I have to go if I were to ever build one. Also, the turbines will allow the elimination of the thrust tubes, correct?
I dont know if its the turbines that would be what could allow the elimination of the thrust tubes or just more overall thrust output regardless of how its developed. There's a youtube vid featuring a very large r/c horten 229 using two jetcat 120 turbines as the power source and there were no exhaust tubes. I have also seen a few electric versions that managed to fly ok without the thrust tubes. However, the thrust tubes make the plane considerable MORE stable. But with gyros and such, I am sure that a good flight control board could compensate.

At the 3:00 minute mark in this video is where the twin turbine HO-229 is seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcbbs1YlQvc

Vid here might be the same turbine one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Mc16zNcVs

This is a large electric one. It does have thrust tubes, but not near as long as Invertmast's plane...but.....Invertmast is still working with getting comfortable with his.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4meQYdaeT58

This electric one has very short thrust tubes and it flies fine, although quite touchy on takeoff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBJEZ_hqcdE

I think it comes down to amount of total thrust output. With invertmast using a 12s setup...he very well could get rid of the thrust tubes.
As far as electric vs turbine....any setup can have issues. Blowing an esc happens occasionally, just as having a dead stick with a gas or glow motor. A turbine can also suffer a shutdown. Too much heat, air bubble in the fuel line, bad kerosene, whatever. Ive seen Mike Nededog with his turbine Habu 32 have a shutdown 10 secs after starting it up...then sometimes 1 min later. We've all seen guys with their jets at a warbird event lose their plane because of a flameout.
Myself...dont think Id want to risk $5000-$8000 worth of turbine power just for the sake of having turbines.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:06 PM
  #331
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

MORE PROGRESS! But wait... how can you progress on something that is done... Easy!

YOU START ANOTHER ONE! lol

Tom's center section is officially started:

I applied the mold release agent, then left to flash off for the allotted time. After that, the molds flanges were taped off to keep the paint off of them, then the primer was applied to the mold surfaces:



That is all for Tom's center section. The paint needs to dry for abit and then the layup schedule will be put in..

For myself, I did some of the work retrofitting the DLE-55RA to the FW-190, I hope to have this done by the end of the week and its shipping crate built so it can begin its journey to its new home starting next week.

For my Horton, I pulled it out of the trailer to do some inspecting to it..

One of the inner flap servo's is burnt out so i will need to replace that, and other than some grass and dirt stains, the outer wing panels suffered no damage.

The center section is structurally un-damaged and again, other than grass and dirt stains and gear door damage, the center section is fine. The ESC mystery remains a mystery. Normally anytime i've seen an ESC fail and catch fire its capacitors were popped, these are still fine, but all the mosfets are shot. so much so, the two boards have separated themselves. I"m pretty sure the motor must of shorted out and caused the ESC failure, i plan to take the motor to work tomorrow and do some work on it to see what's up internally.

ESC picture:


And after cleaning some melted rubber, plastic, solder and random other ESC bits, the inner fiberglass layer shows no sign of damage, just discoloration and there is no loss of strength or stiffness in the area.



Anyone have any suggestions on cleaning out the black soot mess and getting rid of the smell?
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:18 PM
  #332
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Try some of this on the effected areas T.

http://www.kilz.com/primer/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=62de90033f9ff110VgnVCM1000008a 05d103RCRD

Casey
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:20 PM
  #333
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

OH yea.. i forgot this picture:




Thats how much elevon trim was needed for level flight, absolutely every bit I had which is about 3/4"
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:48 PM
  #334
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

See here pictures and the videos from a Horten flying without extra Tube very well.

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/attac...6&d=1309720968

Here the video from the rudder test
http://vimeo.com/25933313


and here with intregrated rudder
http://vimeo.com/26872195

Morel pics and vids you can see in this forum
started page 27

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...probung/page27

I hope this will help
Rolf
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:32 AM
  #335
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Thomas

You will have built 2 or 3 more 229 before we're finished but here is the setup in my Skymaster F4. Twin Uncle Tam 100's on 12s.

I will post some numbers on fan tests when I can. But based on other projects I've done this is my fan of choice.

Also had great luck with these packs. Even in big edf applications no puffing or failures. Just never in stock. Of course I have to run 4 at a time.


Rich
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:41 AM
  #336
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Rich,
Im interested to hear your data on the tams. It'd be interesting to see the difference between the data i have on he jetfans.

Four lipos are mandatory in the 229 for balance requirements.

The plan at this point is to do as many as our materials will allow.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:40 AM
  #337
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Could the angle of those thrust tubes have effected the trim? Pushing the nose down. It looks like they were angled up quite a bit.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:46 AM
  #338
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Thrust line is 4* negative
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:14 PM
  #339
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

So you think the trim is a CG issue? That is a lot of trim.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:18 PM
  #340
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229


Quote:
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

So you think the trim is a CG issue? That is a lot of trim.

No thinking about it. I know it is. The cg is atleast 1/2" forward of where it should be located. And i typically fly my airplanes tail heavy by a lil bit, so its really nose heavy compared to what im used to.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:16 PM
  #341
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

When everything is trimmed properly, and CG corrected, then this thing should actually fly pretty well then. That is a great accomplishment as this is a very difficult design. It seems CG is so critical on these wing designs. Possibly being bigger it is slightly more forgiving. I had one of those
Klingberg wings at one time, and could never get the CG sorted out.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:24 PM
  #342
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

I did a flyin wing once. I crashed my GP F14. Wing was undamaged so we dropped a os 60 on the front of it. It flew so great made me wonder what all the hooplala was all about. It was simple , it wa sfast and it was fun














i had
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:39 PM
  #343
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

I've had several flying wings, a couple of Bill Evans' and a couple foam including a twin pusher called a Viper. The CG is less forgiving than conventional craft by far, but the OP is well aware and is doing just fine with this amazing craft. 

I only want to know how much will one cost?  [8D]
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:45 PM
  #344
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229


Quote:
ORIGINAL: eddieC

I've had several flying wings, a couple of Bill Evans' and a couple foam including a twin pusher called a Viper. The CG is less forgiving than conventional craft by far, but the OP is well aware and is doing just fine with this amazing craft.

I only want to know how much will one cost? [8D]

So as to reduce the amount of pm's i'm getting (Which is a TON! )
$1500 for the full semi kit. IE Composite center section w/ the structure installed, upper strut gear door moldings, clear canopy, plans, bill of materials, canopy cutting guide, nose gear structure (to be installed by builder) and wing tubes.

I'm not including wing ribs as i don't feel like hand cutting a set of ribs at a time. If you guys want a set of wing ribs included, add $75 to the price but you have to either be willing to not get the ribs b/c i'm not going to hand cut and sand them until their are at 2 paid orders at a time.

And right now, of all the people who said they wanted one period (more than half a dozen) none of those guys have forked out any cash.


Horton #2 has been laid up in the molds. We've got to put some peel ply down and all the vacuum and resin lines and then the vac. bag and then its ready to be infused. By the end of the first weekend of Feb. we will have the Second Horton molded and working on the third!
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:21 PM
  #345
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Really am enjoying this thread.....sure wish I wouldn't have just purchased a new vehicle!
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:34 AM
  #346
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Well the bottom half of Tom's HO-229 center section is infused and since this picture had been taken, its been removed from the bag and the peelply and flow media removed.



The top is also nearly ready to be infused as well:



The top will get infused this afternoon and the internal's will get test fit to the bottom half and the wing tube sockets epoxied and glassed to their respective bulkheads. Tomorrow we will close the mold halves and on Wed. we will have a 2nd Horton.

THEN we will do a third one.. probably, most likely. The third one isn't sold to anyone, and no one has expressed interest (monetarily) in this project, so I will possibly build the third one up at a later date for Top Gun or something...
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:31 PM
  #347
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Horton #2's top is infused:


Wing tube sockets epoxied and glassed to their bulkheads:


Main Landing gear mount structure all assembled as well:



Plans for tomorrow is to pull the top half out of the bag and assemble the halves. We will have the 2nd Horton out of the molds by Wed, then they go into storage. We have pretty much decided we are done with molding Horton's for now. Maybe in a few month's we will do some more, you never know!
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:50 PM
  #348
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Great. Now you can move on to that K-80 size Jet Provost. Wink. Lmbo.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:33 PM
  #349
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Look what we got today


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Old 02-06-2013, 08:00 PM
  #350
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Default RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

Well done! I hope for a great second flight, your efforts certainly warrant it.

Please video maiden #2! 

Whit
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