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  1. #226
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    So are you using a resin to glue all of these internal ply wood components before bonding the halves together? So much work involved here. Thanks for sharing. Now everyone will know why a Comp ARF model is so pricy. The SisT as well. Great job on one of my dream aircraft of all time.
    \"let\'\'\'\'s just say, they will be satisfied with less\" Ming the Merciless

  2. #227
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    All of the gear plates were epoxied with 30minute Zap epoxy. Everything else had a mixture of laminating resin, Cotton flock, milled fiberglass and microballons added to it to attach the tube sockets to the bulkheads and the wood structure parts together.
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  3. #228
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    OH YEAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    Only about 20 hours till we seperate the mold halves and have the first 229!
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  4. #229
    glazier808's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Tic toc tic toc
    Fliteskin, Sierra, Nelson Hobby, MICKO aircraft, Getstencils, Holman Plans, VicRC, Castle Creations, Addicted to Luft, BestPilots.com

  5. #230
    glazier808's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    I just wanna know if you duct taped the family up until Xmas day to have so much time...wow you are Das Machine as well!

    Casey
    Fliteskin, Sierra, Nelson Hobby, MICKO aircraft, Getstencils, Holman Plans, VicRC, Castle Creations, Addicted to Luft, BestPilots.com

  6. #231
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    DISASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











    CATASTROPHE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











    DOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!













    HAHAHA... Just Kidding! lol [>:][>:]



    The first Horten is born...







    Chopped out the inlets:




    Made up this:





    And then the Giants came to stomp on it... just kidding!







    Then cut out the nose gear door:




    Then cut out the canopy frame:






    Then got all the nose gear structure tack glued and ready to be installed:


    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  7. #232
    glazier808's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Very nice, it's gonna look great in the air.
    Fliteskin, Sierra, Nelson Hobby, MICKO aircraft, Getstencils, Holman Plans, VicRC, Castle Creations, Addicted to Luft, BestPilots.com

  8. #233
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Too Cool! Way to go. Good job. I still cannot get used to that lavender color you are using though!
    \"let\'\'\'\'s just say, they will be satisfied with less\" Ming the Merciless

  9. #234
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229


    ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

    Too Cool! Way to go. Good job. I still cannot get used to that lavender color you are using though!
    Thats RLM-82, late war standard camo...
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  10. #235
    Ramstein44's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Ooh man...Sweeet!!!! Tell me Invertmast.. Do you see a custom cockpit kit for this..
    "IF" I'd stop staring at them, I'd get more done to them.
    Platt FW190, Holman FW190, Meister FW190, SIST FW190, TF FW190.

  11. #236
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Possibly!
    I have the instrument panel drawn up in cad for 3D printing already. The cockpit structure tubes and seat frame can all be done up in styrene tubes. We will see once it flies
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  12. #237
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229


    ORIGINAL: invertmast


    ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace

    Too Cool! Way to go. Good job. I still cannot get used to that lavender color you are using though!
    Thats RLM-82, late war standard camo...
    I know, I just think it looks goofy. Sorry.
    \"let\'\'\'\'s just say, they will be satisfied with less\" Ming the Merciless

  13. #238

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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Amazing work, but I'm still curious how it will fly with no vertical stabs.

  14. #239
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    First up, I just want to say Thanks to everyone who has commented. This has been a pretty fast build and we aren't done yet!

    For those who may be interested in obtaining one, please send me a PM as we are debating how many of these to offer up for grabs. Initial thoughts by us, is it will be a limited number (probably less than 12), but depending on the interest from the PM's, depends on if that number will change..


    Last bit of work for tonight. I applied a 2" piece of glass tape from the rear wing tube, along the LE and then back to the rear wing tube. This will create a bond between the top and bottom half that will keep them from separating in flight. I also epoxied in the nose gear mount structure, and made up and installed the nose gear mount plate stiffener (the piece laying flat). This stiffener also boxes in the bottom skin in with the nose gear structure and acts as a shelf for the Receiver and Receiver battery.




    Templates have been made for everything, so all future builds will go much more quickly. The only real building left, is the EDF, Steering servo and battery mounts. The EDF unit mounts are first up as it is a bit cramped up in the nose section. We may end up needing to push the fans aft 1 or 2" to make installation easier.
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  15. #240
    wulf190's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    It's like a really big, really fast, RLM camouflaged barn swallow with those swept wings. Fantastic machine. Santa arrived early. Great job.

  16. #241
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    A lil bit of progress so far today.

    For the inlets on this thing, we are doing things a bit different.

    Instead of doing an inlet ducting, we are using wemotec midi fan inlet rings that are cut down so they fit tightly in the inlet holes. These will get roughed up and hysol'd in place. Doing it this method, you get a nice smooth radius to the fans, and easy access for mx and inspection of the rotors. The downside, is the potential for FOD damage. Now, does anyone have a wemotec midifsn inlet ring laying around they would part with? I need one ASAP, so we can taxi this thing this weekend possibly.

    Inlet ring cut down and mocked into place:


    And one of the fan mocked into place:

    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  17. #242
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Well after the Presents were open, the family had left and the little one and wife had gone down for their Naps, I snuck out to the shop and got some work done!

    First up was rough cutting out the upper main gear door strut doors. Then I took the separately molded upper gear doors and trimmed them down to their panel line outlines. The hinged end was shortened .25" to move the hinge line inboard so as not to cut into the main LG mount structure. Then the molded door was placed into position using the panel lines molded into the bottom of the center section and its outline traced. Then the final sanding was done to just short of the outline.



    Then the separately molded door was test fit. The final sanding of the outline was done at a slight angle so the upper strut door sits just barely proud of the lower skin (about 1/100") and doesn't fall into the center section:


    Then the other side was done the same way:



    Then using a straight edge and a Zona saw, the inner main gear doors were cut free from the bottom of the center section. Originally, we planned to offer these as a separately molded item, but they are easy enough to cut free from the bottom skin, it just takes some time and patience. To hinge these will be interesting. I have a few idea's though, more on that later, and if it works, i'll make templates for everyone
    \

    Then using the same Zona saw, but with a narrow pointed saw blade, the lower strut/wheel gear door was cut out. The narrow pointed saw blade allows you to cut curve's.


    Then the landing gear was installed. The main gear are Spring Air Series 700, the struts are 3/8" Extra long robo-struts. tires are 4" ESM's. This is all stuff my buddy Tom has laying around and should work well for the test flying.


    Then I stuck it on its gear to checkout its AoA and stuff:



    Then I took the 105* Robart spring nose firewall mount nose gear and mounted to its plate. Then i just mocked up the 6" nose wheel. The nose strut will be another 1 1/2" long than what you see so the tire will clear the forward carry-through spar. I was also able to figure out the battery mount and nose wheel servo steering mounts..
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  18. #243
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Alrighty, today was the day of Inlet ring modding and installation..

    Thanks to paul (tempest) I got the 2nd inlet ring i needed. Its a little bit different than what i've got, but i'm not waiting!

    first up I needed to figure out a way of getting the motor shaft Center-line aligned with the center of the inlet and exhaust. Poking through the shop, i found a piece of 1 1/2" wing tube socket that was the exact same diameter as the motor. So the socket was squared up and taped to the back of the EDF unit and motor:


    Then a 80mm diameter foam template was cut out with the center drilled out to 1/8". This will be used to make the tailpipe's as well. This was then placed on one exhaust exit flange and put into the correct position (I centered it with the mark 1 eye-ball). Then the 1/8" center-hole was drilled into the center section:


    Then a ply template was cut to allow this center hole position to be transferred to the other side. And the 1/8" center hole drilled into the center section:


    Then using a 1 1/2" Forstner bit, a hole was drilled for a 1 1/2" wing tube.. keep reading! It will make sense soon!


    Then a wing tube was slid into the 1 1/2" hole. And the EDF unit with the wing tube socket put into position inside the wing. The wing tube was then pushed into the center section and into the wing tube socket. Once these were joined, the EDF unit was placed into the inlet, the inlet ring attached to the EDF unit, and then the inlet ring tack-glued with CA to the center section:




    As you can see in the above photo's, the inlet ring becomes part of the center section and gives a nice smooth transition into the EDF unit. The wing tube socket and wing tube act as the alignment device to make sure the EDF unit's thrust line will exit out of the center of the 80MM cutout in the back, when it gets cut out.

    After the inlet rings were tack glued into place, and the wing tube socket and tube removed from the motor can, you can look in the hole at the exhaust and see this:



    A near perfect thrust line alignment!

    Then the inlet ring to center section seam was taped over and a mixture of epoxy and cotton flock put around this seam on the inside of the center section. The inlet ring is part of the mounting system.



    And then I spent about 2 hours Dynamically balancing one of the EDF units.
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  19. #244
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Today's work started out with rough cutting out the exhaust tube outlets:



    Then I finish sanded those to size/shape.


    Then I made up the EDF mounting tabs. Epoxied those into place and mounted the EDF units.. its starting to get heavy now!



    Then I started working on the battery and steering servo mount plates. First up I made the ply blank for the battery mounts. You'll see the corners have been cut out, these help locate the aft end of the battery plate side to side.


    Then the mounts for this were cut from 1" aluminum angle. one piece of angle was notched to fit around the nose gear and bolted to the nose gear bulkhead. The other end was bolted to the backside of the forward carry-through spar. This strengthened that carry through spray up allot, so it was worth the time to do.


    Test fit the plate:


    Initial battery positioning thoughts:




    Then my buddy Tom came over and we made a thrust tube...


    Then we remounted the fan unit and attached the thrust tube to the edf unit:




    Suggestion from you guys in the know.. You see I have my ESC inside the thrust tube. Due to its weight, it hangs down into the thrust efflux until the power is applied, then it kind of "floats" there. I have gotten it all bundled together as tightly as possible, but it still does the above. Would it be best to leave it like this, or just relocate the ESC outside of the thrust tube?

    Then the steering servo hole in the battery plate was cut out and the mounting holes for the battery plate mount bolts drilled. the aluminum angle was also tapped as well for the bolts, and the batteries mocked up into position:



    We also did a little tuft test to see what the air was doing over the bat tail area. It doesn't really tell us much (because its only one fan unit operating), except that the air isn't really swirling (rotating) much (if any). It gives a idea of the sound this monster will have though:

    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v433/Flamed04R6/HO-229%20build/?action=view&current=8FFB9C21-3958-419A-BE17-E5D1232B2849-7996-00000884B9F4D33C.mp4http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v433/Flamed04R6/HO-229%20build/?action=view&current=8FFB9C21-3958-419A-BE17-E5D1232B2849-7996-00000884B9F4D33C.mp4
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  20. #245
    vertical grimmace's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    I would say that placing the ESC outside the thrust tube would be safer, then running the wires back to the motor through a small hole. Anytime something just "floats" around, seems like it is asking for trouble. Especially with a plane like this. Not just some flat foamy ARF here!
    \"let\'\'\'\'s just say, they will be satisfied with less\" Ming the Merciless

  21. #246

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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Interesting video, why don't you try it again with the wings on and a fan in front of the plane, a poor mans wind tunnel basically?  Would have to ensure that no actual flight occurs but I think any household fan will be below that threshold. 

    The outer indicators were being pulled into the airstream of the EDFs but there was no opposing airflow over the wings to counteract the EDF airflow, adding that opposing airflow will change that if nothing else, but might reveal some of what you are looking for?

    Whit

  22. #247
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Whit,
    We plan to do that at some point.


    Thomas
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  23. #248
    SJN's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    I would also mount the ESC`s outside onto the thrust tubes, but make a cutout in the tube , so the ESC heatsink is exposed to the airstreem.
    Seal the ESC/thrust tube with duct tape.

    You have great acces to the internals, so it shoud be an easy job

    Wirws and solder joints fill fail over time, if you leave it dangaling in the airstream as you have it now.
    Sonnich Johannesen

  24. #249
    pandissix's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    Thomas

    This is what we did on the big twin edf ME262. This has worked for a few years now. These fans are 120mm so we have more room to play with than you.
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  25. #250
    pandissix's Avatar
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    RE: 150% enlarged WingontheWeb HO-229

    I worry about the quality of those zippy packs. I have puffed my share of them on 8-12s systems. They'd do fine o 6s or less. Plus those ESC would keep me stressing. Any chance you can pop on some Castle?

    Finally what is the exit diameter in your thrust tube? Make sure to get that choked down to the proper diameter for significant thrust performance



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