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  1. #26

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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    Personally I think its just a matter of wing loading. The power doesn't hurt, the problem is turning your plane into a lead sled. Of course you have to watch for control surface flutter and not pulling to many G's in a turn.

  2. #27

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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?


    ORIGINAL: sparky4lawndart

    Flyinwalenda, I'm just looking for ideas... I'm not trying to piss you off... I absolutely hear what you're saying about scale flying and the speed has a lot to do with that...

    The FW 190a had a 10meter wing span and a top speed of 416MPH... That puts the scale version of my 70inch Folke Wulf at about 72MPH.

    I don't know the physics behing fluid dynamics and what happens when the airfoil hits some limit (like the affects of cavatation, etc). I'm just jazzed about going fast and looking for pointers, brother.

    All respect to the folks that fly scale for the purpose of flying scale... My dollars are precious and that's why I'm doing a little homework before I do something stupid like plumb a turbine engine on top of the fuse (that was a joke).

    The DLE 20 is a great little engine.. started easy and with my limited prop experience left me wanting more. granted the Sukhoi is a completely different airframe and not built for speed... Hey.. that just struct me... do you think the airframe has a lot to do with how that motor will pull a plane through the air? Will the warbird airfoil on this plane make it easier for this engine to pull higher speed with a 16X8 prop?

    don't know... but appreciate your comments... I love coming here and asking questions.. don't want to appear a dope or make enemies...

    The fact is warbirds don't fly that great, sacrilege I know. So in my opinion to have fun they have to be fast. A 60mph p51 is a yawn, a 100+mph mustang is a blast.

  3. #28

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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    ORIGINAL: Johnny_Zero

    30cc gas....perfect for that plane.
    nevermind

  4. #29
    Leroy Gardner's Avatar
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    Some of you guys are down right funny, I love speed but this old guy can't keep up anymore so I just watch others haul the bacon. Over size works real good in a dragster, not sure in a plane Leroy
    Leroy Tiger Club # 53, TF 1/5th P-51 mustang
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  5. #30
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?


    ORIGINAL: jeffk464


    ORIGINAL: sparky4lawndart

    Flyinwalenda, I'm just looking for ideas... I'm not trying to piss you off... I absolutely hear what you're saying about scale flying and the speed has a lot to do with that...

    The FW 190a had a 10meter wing span and a top speed of 416MPH... That puts the scale version of my 70inch Folke Wulf at about 72MPH.

    I don't know the physics behing fluid dynamics and what happens when the airfoil hits some limit (like the affects of cavatation, etc). I'm just jazzed about going fast and looking for pointers, brother.

    All respect to the folks that fly scale for the purpose of flying scale... My dollars are precious and that's why I'm doing a little homework before I do something stupid like plumb a turbine engine on top of the fuse (that was a joke).

    The DLE 20 is a great little engine.. started easy and with my limited prop experience left me wanting more. granted the Sukhoi is a completely different airframe and not built for speed... Hey.. that just struct me... do you think the airframe has a lot to do with how that motor will pull a plane through the air? Will the warbird airfoil on this plane make it easier for this engine to pull higher speed with a 16X8 prop?

    don't know... but appreciate your comments... I love coming here and asking questions.. don't want to appear a dope or make enemies...

    The fact is warbirds don't fly that great, sacrilege I know. So in my opinion to have fun they have to be fast. A 60mph p51 is a yawn, a 100+mph mustang is a blast.

    I dont know what warbirds you have been flying, but my fw190 and the cmp zero, skyshark p40, tf gs p52/p47/corsair, ziroli bearcat, ziroli mustang, and a bunch of others that i have flown and/or owned all flew great! The peos who say they typically dont fly good either 1. Didnt build it correctly, or 2. Try and fly it like a ugly stick
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  6. #31
    invertmast's Avatar
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?


    ORIGINAL: invertmast


    ORIGINAL: jeffk464


    ORIGINAL: sparky4lawndart

    Flyinwalenda, I'm just looking for ideas... I'm not trying to piss you off... I absolutely hear what you're saying about scale flying and the speed has a lot to do with that...

    The FW 190a had a 10meter wing span and a top speed of 416MPH... That puts the scale version of my 70inch Folke Wulf at about 72MPH.

    I don't know the physics behing fluid dynamics and what happens when the airfoil hits some limit (like the affects of cavatation, etc). I'm just jazzed about going fast and looking for pointers, brother.

    All respect to the folks that fly scale for the purpose of flying scale... My dollars are precious and that's why I'm doing a little homework before I do something stupid like plumb a turbine engine on top of the fuse (that was a joke).

    The DLE 20 is a great little engine.. started easy and with my limited prop experience left me wanting more. granted the Sukhoi is a completely different airframe and not built for speed... Hey.. that just struct me... do you think the airframe has a lot to do with how that motor will pull a plane through the air? Will the warbird airfoil on this plane make it easier for this engine to pull higher speed with a 16X8 prop?

    don't know... but appreciate your comments... I love coming here and asking questions.. don't want to appear a dope or make enemies...

    The fact is warbirds don't fly that great, sacrilege I know. So in my opinion to have fun they have to be fast. A 60mph p51 is a yawn, a 100+mph mustang is a blast.

    I dont know what warbirds you have been flying, but my fw190 and the cmp zero, skyshark p40, tf gs p52/p47/corsair, ziroli bearcat, ziroli mustang, and a bunch of others that i have flown and/or owned all flew great! The peos who say they typically dont fly good either 1. Didnt build it correctly, or 2. Try and fly it like a ugly stick

    My next project... Its gonna be a ziroli bearcat with the wings clipped 15" and a 5.8 ci motor on the front of it turning a prop with about 18-20" of pitch. Overpowered yup, gonna be fun, yup Gonna fly like crap, nope, not as long as its flown correctly!
    Thomas W.
    Euro-sport Evo, Scratch built 1/7 F-14D Tomcat, 26.5% Gee Bee R2

  7. #32
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    A good balance of wing loading and power really bring out flying a warbird. I have flown well balanced (not referring to CG) warbirds and not so well balanced. They are less forgiving but fly well. They are not Stick's or Cub's though.

  8. #33
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    Gents... today I had the maiden on the BH FW 190 with the DLE 20 tucked up front...

    At the flightline (www.flyocma.com) I plugged it all in... bolted the wing on... flipped her over... filled her with fresh 87 (32:1)... spun the prop a couple of times.. turned on the ignition and she started on the second attempt... How's that for a good omen...

    I was alone on the field except for one real nice guy with an electric large scale pattern ship...

    3 to 5 mph breeze coming in from left to right.. right down the center of the runway... taxied out... engine is ideling nicely... throttle up slowly.. no ground tracking problems.. 1/4 thottle, tail comes up... I let her accellerate a bit before transition and she just floats up a bit.. a foot off the deck and I increase throttle to 1/2... she starts to climb too fast.. down elevator... roll right a bit, hit the gear and they cycle normally, and it pulls itself nicely into downwind leg... trim the climb out.. three clicks down... 2 clicks right aileron... track is straight as a beam... I realize I have way too much elevator still even though i have it at 50% dual rate...

    noticed she was seriously moving at 1/2 throttle... 2 laps and drop throttle to 1/3.. she's not slowing down... down to a 1/4 on downwind leg.. roll right 50 yards and aim her in at a shallow angle to land... drop gear... drop flaps (full flaps by the way.. either up or down). 1/8 throttle and she is gliding in.. never seen it before on a warbird.. pretty as you please the wheels kiss the deck but the plane is still floating cut throttle and adjust with light rudder... tail sits down.. she's rolls out in 50 feet... turn her around.. taxi back and pull her into engine start area and reach down to cut the ignition...

    There was a weird sound thumping and it turned out to be my heart... My heart was beating like i ran a marathon... grabbed the tail and walk her back...

    I check all the surfaces... checked the landing gear... all looked good... topped her off and waited a few minutes before I went up for another 20 minutes...

    holy smokes, guys... I definitely didn't need more motor to go fast.. this thing cooks... the Zoar 16X8 spins at 8.4K and feels good... responsive.. I tried a few slow barrels and one loop but didn't get her upset at all today... no stall attempts at "1 mistake height" yet...

    I do notice that I can't see much difference between 1/2 and full throttle really... a hundred more flights and maybe I'll figure it out...

    I did have one freaky thing happen... on the last flight one of the E Flight retracts cycled a couple of times all by itself while they were up... no issues in the down position (yet)... I'll keep an eye on it...

    Thanks for the pointers.. thanks for the guidance... thanks for setting me straight... I love this plane! I love this engine! feels like I found my plane!

    President of the not so scale, almost ready to fly, soon to be scrap, warbird brotherhood
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  9. #34
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    There ya go !    Glad you choose that power plant and that you had a successful maiden.
    Brian Ray

  10. #35
    Moderator da Rock's Avatar
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    Good day, eh. Good outcome too. Kewl

    The throttle response was what happens with 'too much motor'. The throttle stick is more like an on off switch. Makes 'em harder to land until you get used to the sensitivity (if you're lucky and there is any). But there are ways to help make it somewhat easier to control.

    Some radios have an adjustable throttle curve. It's like adjusting the surfaces with exponential. It's a way to make the throttle movement less sensitive as it's advanced. It works when it's there in your radio.

    Otherwise, you've got a situation like learning to fly a 3D model puts you in. You simply have to learn to deal with super sensitive control of the stick. Some really overpowered planes just can't be throttled after the stick is halfway or somesuch. You learn to live with it. Some can, if you have an sensitive touch.
    Good flying wit ya today

  11. #36
    Moderator da Rock's Avatar
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    Now you're at the point where you discover if the model can take the speed. Good luck on the test flights. And keep in mind when you're flying a model designed for a lot less engine, and you're using a gas engine, there is wear and tear that hasn't been designed into the airframe. So even if the model lives through the early test flights going faster and faster, as it gets older, it just might get weaker.

    But hey, that's one of the exciting things about overpowering. If you've lucked out and your ARF has good glue joints and enough good wood in it, you'll have lots of flight in it. If not... hey, it was fun before it fluttered.

    Hope you're one of the lucky ones.

    I enjoy the devil out of my H9 Warbirds and enjoy hitting 100+ every so often. The thrill is always there.
    Good flying wit ya today

  12. #37

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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    there is no thing as to much,you dont need to full throtle ALL the time but is nice to have extra just in case you need it,you dont drive you car wide open so why would you fly that way.I fly BIG warbirds 40 to 70 pounders I want all the power I can get and I fly scale.and talk about a ground pounder dle 222 flat 4,dle 170 twin.
    keep your powder dry and pray the creeks dont rise.

  13. #38
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    There is a difference between extra and too much. I fly planes up to 37 pounds. I try to fly in a scale fashion. I don't 3d or have a need for speed. Get the engine that delivers the style you fly. I try not to have anything stick out of the cowl and no cowl mount screws either. It is a matter of what the pilot/builder wants. I use the left stick as much as the right stick. No problem with a bit extra but it can promote bad habits like forcing rotation, I have seen it a number of times as well as being guilty myself.

    My car is not over power either and I use it wide open often and still get 30 mpg.

  14. #39

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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?



    Big motors are great

    I run DLE 30 in all but 1 of my CMP 72in war birds, with a 18X10 Xora prop gives it the most speed and thrust!

    I run a NGH 35 in my BF 10972in and it rocks!

    I put a new DLE55RA in a 74in ESMCorsair, but It comes in around 18 pounds its a big bird with nice scale 20X10 3 blade prop. But the BF109 will smoke it any day!

    Heck Iwas given a .60 little Toni, and All I had was a DLE 30 laying around with a 15X14 prop it screemed! But It only lasted 10 flights as no matter how we I tried to scure the fire wall it ripped off on a High speed dive. But it was fun. LOL


  15. #40

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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    Yep, I did it, overpowered a plane and it did go down due to failure.   I have this Deweyville that is a rather large plane, 84" wingspan, 78" long fuse, large firewall, long landing gear, DLE20 fit it perfectly, and could swing the 16x8 prop cleanly. But it was WAY too much power. The pushrod for the rudder came apart in flight, too much power. 

    I replaced the motor with a Magnum 91. While much less power than the DLE20, still too much for the plane, had to fly at half throttle or the wing could come off.  The Magnum fit the plane very nicely, inside the cowl too, but still too much power. The plane is more likely going to fly well with a 70 on it.  If I ever decided to rebuild the wing after I learned how to fold it on takeoff.
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  16. #41
    carlbecker's Avatar
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?


    ORIGINAL: mikes68charger



    Big motors are great

    I run DLE 30 in all but 1 of my CMP 72in war birds, with a 18X10 Xora prop gives it the most speed and thrust!

    I run a NGH 35 in my BF 109Β*72in and it rocks!

    I put a new DLE55RA in a 74in ESMΒ*Corsair, but It comes in around 18 pounds its a big bird with nice scale 20X10 3 blade prop. But the BF109 will smoke it any day!

    Heck IΒ*was given a .60 little Toni, and All I had was a DLE 30 laying around with a 15X14 prop it screemed! But It only lasted 10 flights as no matter how we I tried to scure the fire wall it ripped off on a High speed dive. But it was fun. LOL

    If you put a 2 blade on the ESM Corsair it would beat the 109. The proper prop for the motor is as important as which motor for the plane and required flight envolope. To each there own, I have a need for scale flight not racing.

  17. #42

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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    True but it would not look as good as this.

    Im also building a TopFlite Gaint P47 with a ZDZ80cc

    I know a DLE55 will do this bird good but I want to spin a 22X10 4 blade prop for more scale look.
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  18. #43
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    My bud has a dle20 in his 60 size goldberg ultimate and weights about 10lbs and has unlimited vertical. The ulti has lots of drag but the dle20 pulls it like a rocket... I think you would have been fine with the dle20... The dle30 is probably borderline ok if it fits in the cowel, be ready for the torque/precession on take off and landing. U might want to use a three blade to keep the torque down.. My esm p47 was a 74" wing and the dle30 and a 19-8 was a good fast match weighting about 15 lbs... And the precession was definitely felt with the 19-8...

    The only time you will need absurd power is if you plan to 3d the plane... With this the extra power is used for tourque (lower end power) not speed. Β*Ie: large cylinders of air off the prop at low speeds...

    You probably would have been better putting a tuned pipe on your dle20 and prop it for max speed...
    Tom N. Pilot-RC 35% Yak-54 DLE111, & 30% Yak-54 DLE55, & 19% Yak-54, TF P47 S115, Β*BUSA DR1 DLE30, CG Ulti Brotherhood #28

  19. #44
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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    ...He did use the DLE20
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  20. #45

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    RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

    I dont fly 3D and none of engine parts stick out of the cowl and when trying to snag the cable with the tailhook you need the power to get back up quickly,that was my point of having more power.pontoon boat with a 15x35' flight deck.now thats fun and sometimes NOT.
    keep your powder dry and pray the creeks dont rise.


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