RC Warbirds and Warplanes Discuss rc warbirds and warplanes in this forum.

is there such a thing as too much motor?

Reply
Old 11-05-2012, 09:25 AM
  #1
sparky4lawndart
Thread Starter
 
sparky4lawndart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA
Posts: 675
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default is there such a thing as too much motor?

Gents,,

I'm trying this out in engines forum as well... I just started assembling the BH FW 190a and wanted to know what gas motor I should use to make it go really fast. I have a DLE 20 and just traded for a DLE 30 but wondered if I should think bigger?

Is there such a thing as too much motor? Will i sheer the wings off with a DLE55?

There's a really cool Zero at my flightline (flyocma.com) that goes really fast (looks and moves like a warbird should). I see a lot of guys and their 70+ inch P51's and P40's crawl around the patern. I want to get that thrill of a low fast pass on the dead line.

btw.. its a BH FW190a ARF...

[link=http://www.blackhorsemodel.com.vn/index.php?mod=pro&act=detail&pid=184]BlackHorse site[/link]
sparky4lawndart is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 09:48 AM
  #2
flyinwalenda
 
flyinwalenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast, PA
Posts: 3,614
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Yes!
Like I said in your other thread. Warbirds should be flown scale. What you refer to as crawling around is actually the plane being flown at a scale speed based on it's size to the full scale plane. If you want a pylon racer then build a P51 and overpower it.
The plane you reference only has a 70" wingspan and only weighs 10lbs. The recommended 120FS would equal a 20cc gasoline. Put a 55cc on it and the extra 2lbs and added torque would probably rip the firewall out if you could even get it to fly without the prop hitting the ground. Plus the added dead tail weight needed, added stress on the airframe, etc...etc...
It should fly well with a 20cc , a 30cc would be overkill ....but it's your plane and you can do what you want to it.

flyinwalenda is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 09:58 AM
  #3
da Rock
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near Pfafftown NC
Posts: 11,460
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Yes.........

If you want a plane that flies good, a bit more power helps. A lot more doesn't, it usually hurts.

A buddy of mine overpowers everything HUGELY. His throttle stick is nothing more than a switch with every one of them. He has a hell of a time getting them to land because they simply won't slow down. He maybe has one that does, but he isn't happy since it is slower than his other rockets. He flies around at about 1/4 throttle and passes everyone. This last season I think he's blown the tail off 2 of them and one simply blew completely up before they could tell where the flutter started.

Is there such a thing as too much motor. Yeah, absolutely.
da Rock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:53 AM
  #4
sparky4lawndart
Thread Starter
 
sparky4lawndart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ladera Ranch, CA
Posts: 675
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Flyinwalenda, I'm just looking for ideas... I'm not trying to piss you off... I absolutely hear what you're saying about scale flying and the speed has a lot to do with that...

The FW 190a had a 10meter wing span and a top speed of 416MPH... That puts the scale version of my 70inch Folke Wulf at about 72MPH.

I don't know the physics behing fluid dynamics and what happens when the airfoil hits some limit (like the affects of cavatation, etc). I'm just jazzed about going fast and looking for pointers, brother.

All respect to the folks that fly scale for the purpose of flying scale... My dollars are precious and that's why I'm doing a little homework before I do something stupid like plumb a turbine engine on top of the fuse (that was a joke).

The DLE 20 is a great little engine.. started easy and with my limited prop experience left me wanting more. granted the Sukhoi is a completely different airframe and not built for speed... Hey.. that just struct me... do you think the airframe has a lot to do with how that motor will pull a plane through the air? Will the warbird airfoil on this plane make it easier for this engine to pull higher speed with a 16X8 prop?

don't know... but appreciate your comments... I love coming here and asking questions.. don't want to appear a dope or make enemies...
sparky4lawndart is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 11:31 AM
  #5
hugger-4641
 
hugger-4641's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: McKenzie, TN
Posts: 1,869
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

"Scale" is also a subjective term when it comes down to it. If you are talking about speed and only speed as compared to physical dimensions, then a 1/4 scale P51 that is truly 1/4 scale should do 1/4 the speed of a full scale P51. So using that example, a 1/4 scale P51 should max out about 125mph since the full scale model can do about 500mph. But if you want to factor in wing loading, drag, and other fluid dynamic factors, a 1/4 scale model would not have exactly 1/4 the speed capability of the full scale plane. [8D]
hugger-4641 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 05:31 PM
  #6
ccostant
 
ccostant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Posts: 574
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Listen to flyinwalenda and da Rock. You can probably get away with way too much engine in the air, assuming the airframe can take it. The biggest problems will be torque on take off and slowing down for landings. All warbirds will pull left on take off even with normal adequately sized power. This will be far worse with signficantly over powered planes. And most warbirds need flaps to help slow down, again with normal adequately sized power. Trying to land a warbird that doesn't slow down usually doesn't end well.
ccostant is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 03:43 AM
  #7
carlbecker
 
carlbecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 2,071
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Yes I believe there is such a thing as to much motor. Never do it though, I tend to not have enough but I don't have a need for speed. Stress, torque and size are some "too much" issues. Having anything stick out of the cowl really destroys the scale look, carbs, heads, mufflers, etc
carlbecker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 09:06 AM
  #8
prop wash
 
prop wash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Griffith, IN
Posts: 1,045
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Sparky just go with the max engine that the manufacturer says and then you can deal with different props and so on.I agree that with heads and carbs sticking out doesn't look good.In my TFGS P51s I put Moki 210s in them and there is more than enough power.So have fun and good luck!
Tom
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv65638.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	34.8 KB
ID:	1818098  
prop wash is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:18 PM
  #9
foodstick
 
foodstick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ankeny, IA
Posts: 5,314
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

I had a friend that put an OS 1.60 in a Pitts, a Monster Pitts. If you would hammer the throttle to hard on takeoff that plane would just sort of twist itself into a BAD PLACE to be.. he actually wrecked it once just throttling up to hard while climbing out. It WAS spectacular though.. He rebuilt it
foodstick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 04:36 PM
  #10
vertical grimmace
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,138
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Also remember "Scale" and "Warbird" are 2 different things. Sure our warbirds represent real aircraft, but scale they are generally not.

That being said, it seems especially with gas, just throwing more engine will not give you any more speed, but will shake the C#@P out of your airframe. We have a guy in our club with a new Top flite giant P47 that started out with a DA 85, but now he switched it to a DA 60. The vibration was killing the plane, and it was not any faster than it is with the 60. Maybe just more vertical.

But Yes< you can go too big.
vertical grimmace is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 05:13 PM
  #11
Thunderbolt47
 
Thunderbolt47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Beulaville , NC
Posts: 2,143
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Engine size has little effect on speed. That is the props job. ( as long as the engine can turn it)
I can elaborate more if need be.


BTW I like to go really fast too. I get LOTS of positive comments on my Mustang. (I fly at lots of Fly-ins)
Thunderbolt47 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 05:20 PM
  #12
Thunderbolt47
 
Thunderbolt47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Beulaville , NC
Posts: 2,143
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

OMT, Don't let anyone tell you how your warbird is to be flown. Fly it for your pleasure. (as long as it safe)
Thunderbolt47 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 04:22 AM
  #13
carlbecker
 
carlbecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 2,071
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Yes most events I go to have many pilots with the hammer down. I don't really get it but many do. The engine does have something to do with speed, it is the driver for the prop and those big high pitch props at high rpm give speed. IMHO it is all about balance not speed. I live in a different world though ;~D
carlbecker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 06:04 AM
  #14
fordy8
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Calcutta, OH
Posts: 7
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

No, there is no such thing as too much motor. I'll never understand where this idea ever came from. Now, granted..., sometimes there just isn't enough airplane!!! I've had it happen myself!!
fordy8 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 09:43 AM
  #15
hugger-4641
 
hugger-4641's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: McKenzie, TN
Posts: 1,869
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

I have to use an analogy here. The Boss Hoss motorcycle is a good example to look at. Way more power than is possible to make use of in a motorcycle frame. Does it work? Yes! ... Is it cool? Absolutely!! Is it practical, efficient, or easy for the average rider to handle? Afraid not.
hugger-4641 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 11:27 AM
  #16
dadragon
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: pine bluffs, WY
Posts: 485
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

With a 70" WS even a 50 would be good power for that plane,but vert-grim said it best about scale & warbirg,find the engine to where you wont need a ton of weight to balance it.
dadragon is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 01:14 PM
  #17
Meschmidt
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 900
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

It's only too much motor if it sticks out too much, too nose heavy, or vibrates the airframe apart. As far as speed, the throttle is for that. Exp: TF P51 GS with Husky 4.4.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ol31575.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	93.1 KB
ID:	1818654  
Meschmidt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 04:06 PM
  #18
Peter_OZ
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 7,740
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

hmmm two words to consider here.

Safety

Litigation

[8D]
Peter_OZ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 04:37 PM
  #19
aa2dd
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Frostproof, FL
Posts: 486
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?



a good rule of the thumb I have followed for many years is this ....... as long as you can slow the plane down enough to land, you do not have to much motor!


Bruce

aa2dd
aa2dd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 06:27 PM
  #20
Johnny_Zero
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 695
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

30cc gas....perfect for that plane.
Johnny_Zero is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 07:19 PM
  #21
vertical grimmace
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,138
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Wanna go fast? Use a thinner airfoil! I have pylon planes to fulfill my need for speed. I find too much engine in my warbirds makes take offs trickier than anything. Must stay under 1/ 4 throttle! lol
vertical grimmace is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 07:36 PM
  #22
Peter_OZ
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 7,740
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

FFS!!! [>:]

it is a WARBIRD, not a bloody pylon racer

Like 3D fliers should just bite the bullet and buy and fly a heli [:@]
Peter_OZ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 03:48 AM
  #23
carlbecker
 
carlbecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 2,071
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Meschmidt

It's only too much motor if it sticks out too much, too nose heavy, or vibrates the airframe apart. As far as speed, the throttle is for that. Exp: TF P51 GS with Husky 4.4.

And that is way to much sticking out. Still fly it and enjoy!
carlbecker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:46 AM
  #24
larry@coyotenet
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: pueblo, CO
Posts: 592
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?

Look up definition of "wing loading". Many a nice plane has met it's maker because the builder ignored those two words.
Larry
larry@coyotenet is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 03:28 PM
  #25
da Rock
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near Pfafftown NC
Posts: 11,460
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: is there such a thing as too much motor?


Quote:
ORIGINAL: larry@coyotenet

Look up definition of ''wing loading''. Many a nice plane has met it's maker because the builder ignored those two words.
Larry

Good suggestion.

While the dictionary is out, check out power loading too. It's what kills a lot of models on takeoff when the throttle moves forward too fast and the airplane hasn't yet.
da Rock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:00 AM.