TF 1/5 Scale P-51 ARF Assembly (1ST MISHAP!!!)
11-22-2015, 11:31 PM
#3702
Nice calm cold day today and about 40F at the field. Took my Mustang up after all the usual ground checks and preflight and after a couple laps I could tell something was not right. Suddenly needed right aileron trim and I also added a couple right rudder clicks to stop it rolling left slowly. The elevator trim needed up trim added too. It kept dropping the nose and acted sensitive. I took the plane up high to sort it out slow down and drop gear and flaps and get ready to land. Came in just fine and taxied back to myself to look at the surfaces. Sure enough the left aileron servo stripped and I can't yet understand what was going on with the elevator trim.
Im using Spektrum DS821 digital servos at 6v but I guess they don't like the colder weather.
Pheeew! Home safe in one piece! I'm upgrading the servos over the winter for sure!
Im using Spektrum DS821 digital servos at 6v but I guess they don't like the colder weather.
Pheeew! Home safe in one piece! I'm upgrading the servos over the winter for sure!
11-23-2015, 08:37 AM
#3703
Maidened mine on Saturday. One of the main gear blocks broke out when I was moving the plane on the ground! It ripped the sheeting off behind the block, zero glue anywhere on the backside of the landing gear mounting plate or the ribs… :-( I CA'd the hell out of it and got one flight in. PLanning to strip the sheeting around the main gear and reinforce. Almost wish they would leave the mounting blocks out so we could do it ourselves…..
11-23-2015, 11:40 AM
#3704
DrScoles,
Be careful, my first TF GS p 51 D ARF had zero glue in the right wing panel from the #3 rib all the way out to the rib outside the aileron servo. I was landing it in front of a huge crowd at an Orlando event and had a grease it in landing going on when the right wheel dropped out and came up through the top wing sheeting, gear blocks, retract assembly and all.
I thought I had stalled it but a Japanese tourist with a huge camcorder came over and let me watch his video of the landing 3 times. The video showed a gentle touch down. Other pilots also said that was the smoothest landing crash they had seen.
When I got home and did a post-mortem on the wing I found that the man. had glued the wing sheeting to the leading and trailing edges and also to the front of the 2 gear ribs, but there was no glue on the gear blocks. Also the left panel was properly glued.
Since it was such a gentle crash and TopFlite claimed no warrantee since I had flown it, I removed the cracked sheeting mostly intact, used it for a pattern to make new sheeting, and glued the inner structure and new sheeting back together. I squirted several bottles of super glue inside the left panel and got 202 flights out of the plane. Then the balsa wing joiner failed and that was the end of that plane. I understand that the first 200 arf kits were sold with the balsa wing joiner but I did not hear anything from TopFlite even though a magazine article in RC Report claimed that 33 pilots had complained of this inadequate part causing catastrophic structural failure in flight. It is my understanding that TopFlite quietly replaced the bad wing joiner in all later kits but that fact did not make me feel any better about losing an airframe, radio and engine.
Since then I do a close inspection of all the critical parts in new planes.
Be careful, my first TF GS p 51 D ARF had zero glue in the right wing panel from the #3 rib all the way out to the rib outside the aileron servo. I was landing it in front of a huge crowd at an Orlando event and had a grease it in landing going on when the right wheel dropped out and came up through the top wing sheeting, gear blocks, retract assembly and all.
I thought I had stalled it but a Japanese tourist with a huge camcorder came over and let me watch his video of the landing 3 times. The video showed a gentle touch down. Other pilots also said that was the smoothest landing crash they had seen.
When I got home and did a post-mortem on the wing I found that the man. had glued the wing sheeting to the leading and trailing edges and also to the front of the 2 gear ribs, but there was no glue on the gear blocks. Also the left panel was properly glued.
Since it was such a gentle crash and TopFlite claimed no warrantee since I had flown it, I removed the cracked sheeting mostly intact, used it for a pattern to make new sheeting, and glued the inner structure and new sheeting back together. I squirted several bottles of super glue inside the left panel and got 202 flights out of the plane. Then the balsa wing joiner failed and that was the end of that plane. I understand that the first 200 arf kits were sold with the balsa wing joiner but I did not hear anything from TopFlite even though a magazine article in RC Report claimed that 33 pilots had complained of this inadequate part causing catastrophic structural failure in flight. It is my understanding that TopFlite quietly replaced the bad wing joiner in all later kits but that fact did not make me feel any better about losing an airframe, radio and engine.
Since then I do a close inspection of all the critical parts in new planes.
Last edited by sjhanc; 11-23-2015 at 01:27 PM.
11-26-2015, 05:18 AM
#3708
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Maidened mine on Saturday. One of the main gear blocks broke out when I was moving the plane on the ground! It ripped the sheeting off behind the block, zero glue anywhere on the backside of the landing gear mounting plate or the ribs… :-( I CA'd the hell out of it and got one flight in. PLanning to strip the sheeting around the main gear and reinforce. Almost wish they would leave the mounting blocks out so we could do it ourselves…..
First photo is a total wing failure on it's second landing. Conclusion, shear webs installed with the grain parallel to the spars. Also glue did not hold.
This is a problem with all TF P51 wings. I have now fixed 5 sets of wings. All have the same problem.
Second photo show the shear webs or lack of them near the servo box.
Third photo is the fix to the wing. Also replace gear blocks with hard wood. Run the blocks into the spar box. This will help distribute the load.
This fall I had a TF P51 Mustang engine failure and stall. The plane went straight down into concrete. The only thing left of the wing ( that I had fixed) was the spar box gear mounts intact from servo hole to servo whole.
Also when fixing the wing use Hysol epoxy 9462
http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/Hysol-9462
11-26-2015, 05:35 AM
#3709
TF's reply to the complaint about the shear web running parallel to the spars is that it is not a shear web it is an assembly jig. That may be so, but the fact remains that a shear web is needed on both sides of the spars. By removing the bottom sheeting only I have been able to replace the assembly jig with real shear webs. I use a Hobbico hot knife to easily cut through the existing glue joints(if there is any glue). When I cut the bottom loose I can force the web away far enough to get the hot knife in to cut the tops loose also. In many cases the glue used is so weak that cutting the bottom loose enables me to simply break the top joint away.
The first wing I repaired by webbing it out to the aileron rib, the second time I was in a hurry so I only went out to one rib past the gear ribs. Both methods work OK.
The first wing I repaired by webbing it out to the aileron rib, the second time I was in a hurry so I only went out to one rib past the gear ribs. Both methods work OK.
11-26-2015, 05:54 AM
#3711
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TF's reply to the complaint about the shear web running parallel to the spars is that it is not a shear web it is an assembly jig. That may be so, but the fact remains that a shear web is needed on both sides of the spars. By removing the bottom sheeting only I have been able to replace the assembly jig with real shear webs. I use a Hobbico hot knife to easily cut through the existing glue joints(if there is any glue). When I cut the bottom loose I can force the web away far enough to get the hot knife in to cut the tops loose also. In many cases the glue used is so weak that cutting the bottom loose enables me to simply break the top joint away.
The first wing I repaired by webbing it out to the aileron rib, the second time I was in a hurry so I only went out to one rib past the gear ribs. Both methods work OK.
The first wing I repaired by webbing it out to the aileron rib, the second time I was in a hurry so I only went out to one rib past the gear ribs. Both methods work OK.
When I sent Tower a picture of that wing failure, they sent me a replacement no questions asked.
Yes, the Hangar 9 might be better, but the have the bad habit of discontinuing planes after 2-3 years. Besides the TF is very modeler friendly. The fame can be changed to model all Mustangs from A-H. You can't due that with the Hangar 9.
11-26-2015, 07:28 AM
#3712
I have already figured out how to convert my H 9 to a B model. When I contacted TF about my wing failure they wanted me to ship it back in one piece at my expense. The shipping charges and crating of a 7 foot wing were more than the cost of a new wing kit so I took the least expensive option and rebuilt it myself.
If it was not such a good flying plane (a 3 on a scale of 10 compared to the H 9 plane) I would not have bought 3 more arfs and 2 kits.
I still don't agree with the business model of selling defective products that have to have major mods done to make it work. Quite a few full scale prototypes that flew well were never built for various reasons including the D model Mustang that had catastrophic wing failures due to landing gear up lock problems that killed several test pilots.
A kit can be upgraded during construction but an ARF that has to be opened up and rebuilt to make it able to land is just sorry.
I still have several TF GS P 51 models that I still fly or am completing construction on but they (TF) will not get any more of my money.
As a successful operator of these planes I get asked about them all the time by interested pilots and I tell them it is a good flying plane that they will have to do major mods to get a reliable plane. Then I tell them and show them the advantages of flying my H 9 Mustang and recommend that they start with the H 9 Mustang and after that experience if they still want to beat themselves in the head with the TF hammer go right ahead.
I also inform them of the problems I and others have had with the H 9 Mustang, but after fixing it they will have a superior flying Mustang.
If it was not such a good flying plane (a 3 on a scale of 10 compared to the H 9 plane) I would not have bought 3 more arfs and 2 kits.
I still don't agree with the business model of selling defective products that have to have major mods done to make it work. Quite a few full scale prototypes that flew well were never built for various reasons including the D model Mustang that had catastrophic wing failures due to landing gear up lock problems that killed several test pilots.
A kit can be upgraded during construction but an ARF that has to be opened up and rebuilt to make it able to land is just sorry.
I still have several TF GS P 51 models that I still fly or am completing construction on but they (TF) will not get any more of my money.
As a successful operator of these planes I get asked about them all the time by interested pilots and I tell them it is a good flying plane that they will have to do major mods to get a reliable plane. Then I tell them and show them the advantages of flying my H 9 Mustang and recommend that they start with the H 9 Mustang and after that experience if they still want to beat themselves in the head with the TF hammer go right ahead.
I also inform them of the problems I and others have had with the H 9 Mustang, but after fixing it they will have a superior flying Mustang.
11-26-2015, 08:15 AM
#3714
I started reading this thread at about #90 and posted my own methods after that, but I went back and read it all from the beginning and there are a lot of good posts and pictures from everyone. I don't remember for sure but I think the original "1st mishap" was due to damage caused by ground loops on take off or landing or even just taxiing. I had them all until I learned how to properly "fly" the plane on the ground. This was a result of a conversation I had with 3 of the surviving Redtails pilots at a warbird event in Ocala. The Dunnellon club also had a retired AF reserve pilot who had flown P 51 D AC during his service in the 50's. These guys loved to reminisce about their P 51 adventures and could remember everything in great detail. I could fly my planes but needed help in the TO & LDG phase. You can say what you want about the model designers changing them to make them easier to fly as a model but, "If it looks like a warbird it is going to fly like a warbird". And that includes the WWI models also.
11-26-2015, 08:27 AM
#3715
TF Gear Mountings
I have had three TF Mustangs and loved them as they fly nice. But you have to beef up the gear area and through the flap servo hole. Yes you can take off some of the bottom covering but, I have never done that much to mine.
Here is a picture of my TF FW 190 that I repaired the Robart plastic cam lock. People have talked about going to a stronger gear (which I have in a heavier model) Bu I am happy with Robarts in a 23-24 lb plane. Yes, after a couple dozen flights I screw-up and make a dumb landing and break the plastic cam that I carry on hand. It they were stronger then I would tear up a wing.
I hit pretty hard after a gust of wind (25+) picked it up and stalled it (FW190) onto the black top on landing.
I do a simple brace of pine from under the front mounting all the way to leading edge (under the gear cut out) on both TF's.
Drill out the Robart mounting holes and put some REAL sheet metal screws in. Main thing is holding the front from ripping up.
Yes the FW 190 mountings are much better but, look how long the Mustang has been in production.
11-26-2015, 09:42 AM
#3717
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I have already figured out how to convert my H 9 to a B model. When I contacted TF about my wing failure they wanted me to ship it back in one piece at my expense. The shipping charges and crating of a 7 foot wing were more than the cost of a new wing kit so I took the least expensive option and rebuilt it myself.
If it was not such a good flying plane (a 3 on a scale of 10 compared to the H 9 plane) I would not have bought 3 more arfs and 2 kits.
I still don't agree with the business model of selling defective products that have to have major mods done to make it work. Quite a few full scale prototypes that flew well were never built for various reasons including the D model Mustang that had catastrophic wing failures due to landing gear up lock problems that killed several test pilots.
A kit can be upgraded during construction but an ARF that has to be opened up and rebuilt to make it able to land is just sorry.
I still have several TF GS P 51 models that I still fly or am completing construction on but they (TF) will not get any more of my money.
As a successful operator of these planes I get asked about them all the time by interested pilots and I tell them it is a good flying plane that they will have to do major mods to get a reliable plane. Then I tell them and show them the advantages of flying my H 9 Mustang and recommend that they start with the H 9 Mustang and after that experience if they still want to beat themselves in the head with the TF hammer go right ahead.
I also inform them of the problems I and others have had with the H 9 Mustang, but after fixing it they will have a superior flying Mustang.
If it was not such a good flying plane (a 3 on a scale of 10 compared to the H 9 plane) I would not have bought 3 more arfs and 2 kits.
I still don't agree with the business model of selling defective products that have to have major mods done to make it work. Quite a few full scale prototypes that flew well were never built for various reasons including the D model Mustang that had catastrophic wing failures due to landing gear up lock problems that killed several test pilots.
A kit can be upgraded during construction but an ARF that has to be opened up and rebuilt to make it able to land is just sorry.
I still have several TF GS P 51 models that I still fly or am completing construction on but they (TF) will not get any more of my money.
As a successful operator of these planes I get asked about them all the time by interested pilots and I tell them it is a good flying plane that they will have to do major mods to get a reliable plane. Then I tell them and show them the advantages of flying my H 9 Mustang and recommend that they start with the H 9 Mustang and after that experience if they still want to beat themselves in the head with the TF hammer go right ahead.
I also inform them of the problems I and others have had with the H 9 Mustang, but after fixing it they will have a superior flying Mustang.
11-26-2015, 09:48 AM
#3718
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Here is how to fix Robart gear so they don't twist on landing and break the cam blocks.
This is a common problem with the electric gear.
You place an extra set of cam blocks in the back of the retract housing.
This will stop the twist the gear will do on a poor landing.
I also recommend replacing the plastic blocks with metal ones. You can get them from Robart or Sierra.
This is a common problem with the electric gear.
You place an extra set of cam blocks in the back of the retract housing.
This will stop the twist the gear will do on a poor landing.
I also recommend replacing the plastic blocks with metal ones. You can get them from Robart or Sierra.
11-26-2015, 10:15 AM
#3720
I got tired of nose overs with a slightly nose heavy plane so went back to the man. rec. CG of 4 9/16 and now I have props with several hundred flights. And my planes groove just fine and I fly in windy gusty weather (within limits). Mustangs are easy to TO & land in crosswind conditions. I have attended several events recently that all had strong crosswinds and turbulence and I flew while a lot of other pilots sat it out.
I never break the plastic gear blocks anymore since I learned how to TO & land and I have never twisted and damaged the cams and blocks on my electric gear.
I never break the plastic gear blocks anymore since I learned how to TO & land and I have never twisted and damaged the cams and blocks on my electric gear.
11-26-2015, 10:23 AM
#3721
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I got tired of nose overs with a slightly nose heavy plane so went back to the man. rec. CG of 4 9/16 and now I have props with several hundred flights. And my planes groove just fine and I fly in windy gusty weather (within limits). Mustangs are easy to TO & land in crosswind conditions. I have attended several events recently that all had strong crosswinds and turbulence and I flew while a lot of other pilots sat it out.
I never break the plastic gear blocks anymore since I learned how to TO & land and I have never twisted and damaged the cams and blocks on my electric gear.
I never break the plastic gear blocks anymore since I learned how to TO & land and I have never twisted and damaged the cams and blocks on my electric gear.
11-26-2015, 10:49 AM
#3722
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Scale,
Another mod that will make the the arf land better ( I got this from Leo Spychalla)> The dihedral in the arf wing is wrong. The full scale Mustang has a 10 deg dihedral. So does the TF P51 kit. But the arf has only 5 deg's.
The way to fix this is:
Take 1/4" off the top of the wing joiner and add 1/4" to the bottom.
Glue the wing together.
This will leave 1/4" gap in the bottom of the wing.
Glue 1/4" wood wedges in the gap and sand flush.
You will have to change the cam blocks in your landing gear from 90 deg to 85 deg. The cam blocks are available from Robart or Sierra.
This mod will help on landing.
Another mod that will make the the arf land better ( I got this from Leo Spychalla)> The dihedral in the arf wing is wrong. The full scale Mustang has a 10 deg dihedral. So does the TF P51 kit. But the arf has only 5 deg's.
The way to fix this is:
Take 1/4" off the top of the wing joiner and add 1/4" to the bottom.
Glue the wing together.
This will leave 1/4" gap in the bottom of the wing.
Glue 1/4" wood wedges in the gap and sand flush.
You will have to change the cam blocks in your landing gear from 90 deg to 85 deg. The cam blocks are available from Robart or Sierra.
This mod will help on landing.
11-26-2015, 01:20 PM
#3723
I don't think I am a better pilot than any body else. I have however, spent a large amount of my flying time practicing touch and goes in all kinds of weather conditions. I got beat recently by a runway that had hundreds of holes in it that my wheels kept dropping into. The only guys doing well that day had oversize wheels or 1/4-1/3 scale planes. A very large SpitFire put on the best show. After it was over it occurred to me that I should have tried landing flaps for takeoff because I didn't seem to have as much trouble on landing as take off. Oh, well, maybe next time.
11-29-2015, 03:19 PM
#3724
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Gentlemen:
I am looking for the vacuum formed plastic parts from an older TF P51 arf. I am throwing together for a cheap cockpit. The last one I had came with a dash, floor pan, 2 side panels. Years ago, they came triangler boxes for each side and side panel stand offs. It's a little hard to explain if you have never seen them. If you think you have them laying around you work area, I would be glad to buy them.
I am looking for the vacuum formed plastic parts from an older TF P51 arf. I am throwing together for a cheap cockpit. The last one I had came with a dash, floor pan, 2 side panels. Years ago, they came triangler boxes for each side and side panel stand offs. It's a little hard to explain if you have never seen them. If you think you have them laying around you work area, I would be glad to buy them.