TF 1/5 Scale P-51 ARF Assembly (1ST MISHAP!!!)
03-13-2016, 08:59 PM
#3751
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Again thanks Ralph. I will let you know what they say and take pictures when I open up the wing. The last thing I want is to fix a broken wing. I even thing I may let my friend cut me a set of foam core wings. Then I know from the beginning without building one from a box of wood. Been there done that.
03-14-2016, 07:42 PM
#3756
Jeff, I used Robart Hinge Points on all control surfaces. I believe they were the 3/16" size but not sure. I also used the hinge points that come with the Top Flite P-51 ARF. I have used CA hinges on smaller models without any problems but like the Robarts on larger models.
Last edited by Ralph White; 03-14-2016 at 07:44 PM.
03-14-2016, 10:38 PM
#3757
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I went with a foam wing that Eureka aircraft cut for me with the proper dihedral angle. I still have the built up wing but I just as soon do my own engineering with the wing and retract system.
03-15-2016, 12:37 AM
#3758
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All retract makers have 85 deg gear to use in this configuration.
03-15-2016, 05:25 AM
#3759
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Ralph, I thought I read that there wasn't enough leading and trailing edge "meat" for use of pin hinges? Pin hinges are my favorite. It's also an interesting read on leaving the 5-6 degrees of dihedral and going to 10 degrees. Did you do the same? Wow, what a great thread.
03-15-2016, 07:52 AM
#3760
Jeff, I agree there is not much material in the elevator LE. However, I had no problem using the hinge points on the elevators. I did have to cut the hinge point off a little so they did not go into the elevator to far. I can not remember weather I used epoxy or gorilla glue. Below are pictures of the hinge points in the leading edge of the elevator on my TF P-51 ARF. The stab was broke off flying thru a grove of trees.
I used four hinge points on each elevator. One is in the stab tip area that is a balsa block.
I'll post a video of that P-51C flying tonight.
I used four hinge points on each elevator. One is in the stab tip area that is a balsa block.
I'll post a video of that P-51C flying tonight.
Last edited by Ralph White; 03-15-2016 at 01:10 PM.
03-15-2016, 04:42 PM
#3761
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Ralph, I like Gorilla glue whenever possible, I use it on my 40 percenters too. So I will go with hinge points and Gorilla glue. Did you make the dihedral modifications to 10 degrees too, or did you leave it as is?
03-15-2016, 05:22 PM
#3762
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You all should try Aero poxy or Hysol 9462. It cures in 18 hours, it doesn't squirt out like gorilla glue and it dosen't run all over like epoxy. It's pricey but it works better then anything I have ever used.
03-15-2016, 06:02 PM
#3763
Yes, I changed the dihedral to 10 degrees, I also raised the the stab 1/2" to a more scale location. Another very important item: I raised the stab L.E. center line 1/8 inch more than the T.E. center line (positive incidence in the stab). Every maiden I have seen on a Top Flite 5th scale P-51 required a lot of down elevator trim. The positive incidence in the stab prevents this problem.
My TF P-51 flew perfect. It weighted 22 lbs without fuel. DLE 55 RA with Mejzlik 21 X 10 carbon prop. The only negative was it likes to hop if a 3-point landing is attempted. I prefer to keep a little power on approach and 2 wheel landings. If it bounces add a little power and go around. It doesn't normally stop bouncing once it starts.
I had about 85 flights on my P-51C "Dody" when I mis-judged the distance to a group of young trees during a slow roll. It was spread out over a 150' long path.
Watch on full screen view
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CUwA9aJlifQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
My TF P-51 flew perfect. It weighted 22 lbs without fuel. DLE 55 RA with Mejzlik 21 X 10 carbon prop. The only negative was it likes to hop if a 3-point landing is attempted. I prefer to keep a little power on approach and 2 wheel landings. If it bounces add a little power and go around. It doesn't normally stop bouncing once it starts.
I had about 85 flights on my P-51C "Dody" when I mis-judged the distance to a group of young trees during a slow roll. It was spread out over a 150' long path.
Watch on full screen view
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CUwA9aJlifQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Last edited by Ralph White; 03-15-2016 at 06:06 PM.
03-15-2016, 06:10 PM
#3764
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Yes, I changed the dihedral to 10 degrees, I also raised the the stab 1/2" to a more scale location. Another very important item: I raised the stab L.E. center line 1/8 inch more than the T.E. center line (positive incidence in the stab). Every maiden I have seen on a Top Flite 5th scale P-51 required a lot of down elevator trim. The positive incidence in the stab prevents this problem.
My TF P-51 flew perfect. It weighted 22 lbs without fuel. DLE 55 RA with Mejzlik 21 X 10 carbon prop. The only negative was it likes to hop if a 3-point landing is attempted. I prefer to keep a little power on approach and 2 wheel landings. If it bounces add a little power and go around. It doesn't normally stop bouncing once it starts.
I had about 85 flights on my P-51C "Dody" when I mis-judged the distance to a group of young trees during a slow roll. It was spread out over a 150' long path.
Watch on full screen view
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CUwA9aJlifQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
My TF P-51 flew perfect. It weighted 22 lbs without fuel. DLE 55 RA with Mejzlik 21 X 10 carbon prop. The only negative was it likes to hop if a 3-point landing is attempted. I prefer to keep a little power on approach and 2 wheel landings. If it bounces add a little power and go around. It doesn't normally stop bouncing once it starts.
I had about 85 flights on my P-51C "Dody" when I mis-judged the distance to a group of young trees during a slow roll. It was spread out over a 150' long path.
Watch on full screen view
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CUwA9aJlifQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
03-15-2016, 08:09 PM
#3767
Jeff, I'll look for some pictures of the stab area and post them if I have any.
The apc 21 x 10 worked real good on my P-51 with DLE 55 RA but I didn't care for the shape (looks) of it. I tried Zinger, APC, Xoar, Mejzlik 21 x 10 and 22 x 10 props. The Mejzlik 21 x 10 was heads above the others. I like fast P-51's. I know the Mejzlik is very expensive but I want the best performance. The Xoar 21 X 10 is my second choice and what I use until I get the aircraft flying and landing as I like. Again the APC 21 x 10 flies the P-51 nicely but I just don't like the looks of them. There may be other brands of props that work fine on the TF P-51 but a person can only try so many.
The apc 21 x 10 worked real good on my P-51 with DLE 55 RA but I didn't care for the shape (looks) of it. I tried Zinger, APC, Xoar, Mejzlik 21 x 10 and 22 x 10 props. The Mejzlik 21 x 10 was heads above the others. I like fast P-51's. I know the Mejzlik is very expensive but I want the best performance. The Xoar 21 X 10 is my second choice and what I use until I get the aircraft flying and landing as I like. Again the APC 21 x 10 flies the P-51 nicely but I just don't like the looks of them. There may be other brands of props that work fine on the TF P-51 but a person can only try so many.
03-15-2016, 09:15 PM
#3769
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Ralph I agree with the APC, very ugly. I also agree with all the props I have tried on my normal stuff extra's and edges, sukhoi, and one huge Wadell Williams, the Mejzlik prop is the best and I have tried most of them, with the Zinger being the worst. MeNards.....I haven't heard that name since leaving Nebraska. Hysol is great stuff, and the mixing tool is the best, but very expensive, but still yet the best. Many times I just mix milled fiberglass with epoxy to get the same type of consistency. Well, bottom line, I'm ready to work this P 51 over. My buddy has the older Hangar 9 kit, same size. The race is on. I will continue to post as I go along. Thanks to all for the pointers, I will be incorporating all of them!
03-15-2016, 09:39 PM
#3770
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Chris, Ralph
Chris, It's been awhile, but I am getting back in the game.
Ralph, Hysol is the greatest bonding agent you will find. Keep it in the refrigerator, flush with Acetone and blow out the tips for reuse and it gets more reasonable on the price. Also, a little goes a long way. One of the things I really like is that you can put it on a vertical surface and it will stay right where you put it. I find gluing at the end of the day works better for the curing time, but you can glue up any time. You can also build your own applicator tool and hand mix, but better yet, spring for the mixing tool. Can't say enough good things about this professional commercial product. If you can find other builders to go in, you can get it by the case and further reduce the cost.
On the road right now, but I will post some shots of an old P-51 that I bought used. Plane never flown, and the OS BGX-1 35ccnitro engine was never run (engine and muffler for sale). This is an old kit/ARF that took some rework to get it ready to go, took the nitro engine out and put in 45 cc gas. Should be home in several weeks so I will try and post some photos then.
Additionally, my TF P-51 is ready to go after bending one Sierra Giant strut on our terrible runway, just need to get out to the field to fly it again. Ever tried straightening out a bent Sierra Giant strut, don't bother, a 4 lb. sledge never phased it.
Chris, It's been awhile, but I am getting back in the game.
Ralph, Hysol is the greatest bonding agent you will find. Keep it in the refrigerator, flush with Acetone and blow out the tips for reuse and it gets more reasonable on the price. Also, a little goes a long way. One of the things I really like is that you can put it on a vertical surface and it will stay right where you put it. I find gluing at the end of the day works better for the curing time, but you can glue up any time. You can also build your own applicator tool and hand mix, but better yet, spring for the mixing tool. Can't say enough good things about this professional commercial product. If you can find other builders to go in, you can get it by the case and further reduce the cost.
On the road right now, but I will post some shots of an old P-51 that I bought used. Plane never flown, and the OS BGX-1 35ccnitro engine was never run (engine and muffler for sale). This is an old kit/ARF that took some rework to get it ready to go, took the nitro engine out and put in 45 cc gas. Should be home in several weeks so I will try and post some photos then.
Additionally, my TF P-51 is ready to go after bending one Sierra Giant strut on our terrible runway, just need to get out to the field to fly it again. Ever tried straightening out a bent Sierra Giant strut, don't bother, a 4 lb. sledge never phased it.
03-16-2016, 02:09 AM
#3772
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http://www.dreamworksrc.com/catalog/Hysol
Get the gun and the mixing tubes, pricey yes, but you can due all the pin hinges on a plane ( ele, ale,rud, flap) in 30 min without the mess.
03-16-2016, 02:12 AM
#3773
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Chris, Ralph
Chris, It's been awhile, but I am getting back in the game.
Ralph, Hysol is the greatest bonding agent you will find. Keep it in the refrigerator, flush with Acetone and blow out the tips for reuse and it gets more reasonable on the price. Also, a little goes a long way. One of the things I really like is that you can put it on a vertical surface and it will stay right where you put it. I find gluing at the end of the day works better for the curing time, but you can glue up any time. You can also build your own applicator tool and hand mix, but better yet, spring for the mixing tool. Can't say enough good things about this professional commercial product. If you can find other builders to go in, you can get it by the case and further reduce the cost.
On the road right now, but I will post some shots of an old P-51 that I bought used. Plane never flown, and the OS BGX-1 35ccnitro engine was never run (engine and muffler for sale). This is an old kit/ARF that took some rework to get it ready to go, took the nitro engine out and put in 45 cc gas. Should be home in several weeks so I will try and post some photos then.
Additionally, my TF P-51 is ready to go after bending one Sierra Giant strut on our terrible runway, just need to get out to the field to fly it again. Ever tried straightening out a bent Sierra Giant strut, don't bother, a 4 lb. sledge never phased it.
Chris, It's been awhile, but I am getting back in the game.
Ralph, Hysol is the greatest bonding agent you will find. Keep it in the refrigerator, flush with Acetone and blow out the tips for reuse and it gets more reasonable on the price. Also, a little goes a long way. One of the things I really like is that you can put it on a vertical surface and it will stay right where you put it. I find gluing at the end of the day works better for the curing time, but you can glue up any time. You can also build your own applicator tool and hand mix, but better yet, spring for the mixing tool. Can't say enough good things about this professional commercial product. If you can find other builders to go in, you can get it by the case and further reduce the cost.
On the road right now, but I will post some shots of an old P-51 that I bought used. Plane never flown, and the OS BGX-1 35ccnitro engine was never run (engine and muffler for sale). This is an old kit/ARF that took some rework to get it ready to go, took the nitro engine out and put in 45 cc gas. Should be home in several weeks so I will try and post some photos then.
Additionally, my TF P-51 is ready to go after bending one Sierra Giant strut on our terrible runway, just need to get out to the field to fly it again. Ever tried straightening out a bent Sierra Giant strut, don't bother, a 4 lb. sledge never phased it.
Good luck with the older TF, watch out for old glue Joints. As for struts, to straighten them will just leave them weak.
03-16-2016, 04:58 PM
#3774
Jeff, Below are pictures where I raised the stab about 1/2 " to a more scale location. One thing you have to do is also raise the elevator push rods 1/2 ". On my build this was fairly easy to do as I had the turtle deck removed in order to change to a P-51C model. Would be a little more difficult to do on a P-51D model with the turtle deck in place. You possibly could remove and then replace some of the bottom sheeting on the fuselage to get to the tubes.
On the P-51B and P-51C the stab location is important because the lack of the dorsal fin makes the stab location show up more. On the P-51D the lower stab location is not as noticeable. It just depends on how scale you want the plane to be. Changing the height of the stab on the P-51D model may be more work than it's worth. Some times I spend to much time making my planes as scale as practical.
However, I do believe raising the stab LE 1/8 inch is worth doing because the plane flies better.
I think the pictures are self explanatory. The putty I used is micro balloons mixed with 60 minute epoxy. Lots of micro balloons, very little epoxy, almost dry feeling.
On the P-51B and P-51C the stab location is important because the lack of the dorsal fin makes the stab location show up more. On the P-51D the lower stab location is not as noticeable. It just depends on how scale you want the plane to be. Changing the height of the stab on the P-51D model may be more work than it's worth. Some times I spend to much time making my planes as scale as practical.
However, I do believe raising the stab LE 1/8 inch is worth doing because the plane flies better.
I think the pictures are self explanatory. The putty I used is micro balloons mixed with 60 minute epoxy. Lots of micro balloons, very little epoxy, almost dry feeling.
Last edited by Ralph White; 03-16-2016 at 05:05 PM.
03-19-2016, 06:32 AM
#3775
Here is my recently rebuilt and recovered P-51 ARF. The plane had been crashed and rebuilt and I got it in a trade. I stripped the original covering, did the wing/landing gear mod and redid her in OD and Silver Hobbyking film with markings from Callie Graphics, Robart air retracts, DLE 55RA engine, and Dave Brown spinner, Top Flite 22x10 Power Prop with reshaped tips. She flies like a pattern ship...just a great everyday flier.