Meister FW190A Build with FG Fuse
11-02-2013, 09:18 AM
#26
Ok, wings wings wings….
My goal was to get the retracts as close to the scale position as possible, getting those wheels in close to the wing center. After getting the left wing framed up and the Spar fitted just right to join the two wings…I went with the old faithful way of checking for toe in/out and how the gear would look as far as stance and rake too. I tacked in the gear rails so I could break them away if I needed to adjust anything, getting the correct setup and then go back and reinforce and build up what I needed to as far as rib doubles, etc.
Btw, the first pic is where the ribs were set up from the plans before I started moving the gear in towards the wing center. You can see I got it pretty close, as close as I could to the forward fuse mounts.
I did have to add a Doubler to Rib 4 since I brought the gear mounting rails in much further. It was just cut and fit, try, cut and fit until I got this right. But I am good to go now and finish up the gear rails and head to sheeting.
My goal was to get the retracts as close to the scale position as possible, getting those wheels in close to the wing center. After getting the left wing framed up and the Spar fitted just right to join the two wings…I went with the old faithful way of checking for toe in/out and how the gear would look as far as stance and rake too. I tacked in the gear rails so I could break them away if I needed to adjust anything, getting the correct setup and then go back and reinforce and build up what I needed to as far as rib doubles, etc.
Btw, the first pic is where the ribs were set up from the plans before I started moving the gear in towards the wing center. You can see I got it pretty close, as close as I could to the forward fuse mounts.
I did have to add a Doubler to Rib 4 since I brought the gear mounting rails in much further. It was just cut and fit, try, cut and fit until I got this right. But I am good to go now and finish up the gear rails and head to sheeting.
11-03-2013, 05:00 AM
#28
Flaps…
Decided to go with G-10 material for the skin early on so I had already ordered the sheets and received them before I even got the final wing plans from Dino at Meister Scale. It's just under 1/8" thickness, pretty solid already but when I added the 1/8" AC Ply ribs…BAM! Plus, I went ahead and planned for 5-6 Robart Hinges rather than the typical 3 shown on plans and others have done. These flaps are not big BUT they are on a constant load when deployed.
In my years of assembling Jets, I learned the key to Flap setups is really where the Servo Arm ends when the Flap is fully deployed. It should end as parallel to the bottom of the wing skin as possible (assuming it is an internal setup, which is the best geometry-wise). This takes the mechanical load off of the servo quite a bit since it is now fighting more against the structure of the servo than the gear system. Also, with larger Flaps, there is the issue of "Blow Back" from the wind resistance coming over the wing foil when Flaps are being used.
Anyway…busting through this, wanting to start closing in these wings asap!!!
Decided to go with G-10 material for the skin early on so I had already ordered the sheets and received them before I even got the final wing plans from Dino at Meister Scale. It's just under 1/8" thickness, pretty solid already but when I added the 1/8" AC Ply ribs…BAM! Plus, I went ahead and planned for 5-6 Robart Hinges rather than the typical 3 shown on plans and others have done. These flaps are not big BUT they are on a constant load when deployed.
In my years of assembling Jets, I learned the key to Flap setups is really where the Servo Arm ends when the Flap is fully deployed. It should end as parallel to the bottom of the wing skin as possible (assuming it is an internal setup, which is the best geometry-wise). This takes the mechanical load off of the servo quite a bit since it is now fighting more against the structure of the servo than the gear system. Also, with larger Flaps, there is the issue of "Blow Back" from the wind resistance coming over the wing foil when Flaps are being used.
Anyway…busting through this, wanting to start closing in these wings asap!!!
11-06-2013, 04:00 AM
#29
Sheeted!!!
Lot's and lots done…fitting the wings to the fuse was pretty much a breeze so this FG Fuse is a WINNER for sure!!! Dropped the freshly sheeted wings onto the wing saddle, holding my breath…opened my eyes and they fit pretty much PERFECT!!! The only adjusting I had to do was at the front of the saddle where the "pins" go into the fuse, there was some FG build up and just had to grind them to a true 90 degrees. WOW!
I did find a "weak spot" as I was working with the wings fitting together. Maybe when the final sheeting will be installed around the gear, it will lock in the root rib but I went ahead and beefed it up where I thought there needed to be some strength added. (See first pic below)
Also, in a thread on RCSB, I saw someone used some CF cloth over the Gear Bay area, running the cloth from Rib 5 to Rib 1 and to the main Spar, so I did that too. Made sense since the top skin often times will crack either over time or from a hard landing. Got it from DreamworksRC.com and laminated it in with thinned 30 min Epoxy, then covered it with the topspin sheeting…BULLET PROOF! (You can see the material a bit in the first pic)
Lot's and lots done…fitting the wings to the fuse was pretty much a breeze so this FG Fuse is a WINNER for sure!!! Dropped the freshly sheeted wings onto the wing saddle, holding my breath…opened my eyes and they fit pretty much PERFECT!!! The only adjusting I had to do was at the front of the saddle where the "pins" go into the fuse, there was some FG build up and just had to grind them to a true 90 degrees. WOW!
I did find a "weak spot" as I was working with the wings fitting together. Maybe when the final sheeting will be installed around the gear, it will lock in the root rib but I went ahead and beefed it up where I thought there needed to be some strength added. (See first pic below)
Also, in a thread on RCSB, I saw someone used some CF cloth over the Gear Bay area, running the cloth from Rib 5 to Rib 1 and to the main Spar, so I did that too. Made sense since the top skin often times will crack either over time or from a hard landing. Got it from DreamworksRC.com and laminated it in with thinned 30 min Epoxy, then covered it with the topspin sheeting…BULLET PROOF! (You can see the material a bit in the first pic)
11-06-2013, 04:10 AM
#31
Oh and yes, the 1/2" thick x 2" Balsa Stock does make it for the Leading edge!!! I did run 1/8" Lite Ply instead of Balsa behind the Leading Edge. I thought there was no way to get the airfoil right at the Root area with the 1/2" but Terry was right…it can happen!!!
11-08-2013, 04:52 PM
#33
Besides CD'ing an event this weekend, found time to get these done before folks rolled in from 11 states around the US. Check out the pics from the "Dino DiGiorgio Memorial Warbird Rally" in the thread named as such. It is a pilot ONLY, must attend warbird event!!!
Had to go to so G-10 skins for the bottom half of the gear doors. Was able to heat them up and mold them to the contour of the wing foil…much better than the 1/8" AC Ply since we are fighting for a balance of wing depth, ability to fully retract the gear and make a nice finished gear up scenario for the wing/gear setup!
Note: needed to taper the bottom part of the upper door to make the two piece gear door work properly. This is a MUSt and a scale touch, to do this. The gear works great with this setup. It takes 5/8" dia. door collars from www.dreamworksrc.com to get the bottom half of the gear doors working right. I did drill and tap the strut as Darrell at Sierrs suggested, but backed off and used the 5/8" collars for better function.
Had to go to so G-10 skins for the bottom half of the gear doors. Was able to heat them up and mold them to the contour of the wing foil…much better than the 1/8" AC Ply since we are fighting for a balance of wing depth, ability to fully retract the gear and make a nice finished gear up scenario for the wing/gear setup!
Note: needed to taper the bottom part of the upper door to make the two piece gear door work properly. This is a MUSt and a scale touch, to do this. The gear works great with this setup. It takes 5/8" dia. door collars from www.dreamworksrc.com to get the bottom half of the gear doors working right. I did drill and tap the strut as Darrell at Sierrs suggested, but backed off and used the 5/8" collars for better function.
Last edited by rbxbear44; 11-08-2013 at 04:57 PM.
11-10-2013, 11:11 AM
#34
Wings primed, then sanded, primed, then sanded again…aaaannnddd again!
Started to work on the wing detail…a favorite for me
. Laid out the panel lines first, using the Chart Tape from Aero-Accessories, shooting several coats of primer over the tape. Let it dry really well, and then sanded over the tape with 400 grit which loosened the tape and kept it from pulling some of the ridge line off as the tape came off. My buddy Pedro Sanchez gave me this tip…thanks Pedro!
What's cool about the 190 wing is the armor plating on the leading edge. I saw this done on a RCSB thread and had to do it myself. Really adds to the look!!! I used 1/64 Plywood for this application. Once I had the geometry right on the first sheet coming from the fuse line/faring, I created a jig to bend the plywood so it would be easier to work with as I glued them into place. I soaked them in Amonia and the kept them in the jig for several hours, until they were completely dry. I went ahead and drilled the rivet pattern I wanted, knowing some Epoxy would fill them up but at least they would be a good mark for me when I started to "rivet party" and then I could clean them up more.
I did use 30 Min. Epoxy for this application, using 60 grit SP to prep the wing surface and also the back of the 1/64 Ply. I only had one of these sections break on me during this whole process, which is awesome! Just re-making one was no problem.
Started to work on the wing detail…a favorite for me
. Laid out the panel lines first, using the Chart Tape from Aero-Accessories, shooting several coats of primer over the tape. Let it dry really well, and then sanded over the tape with 400 grit which loosened the tape and kept it from pulling some of the ridge line off as the tape came off. My buddy Pedro Sanchez gave me this tip…thanks Pedro!What's cool about the 190 wing is the armor plating on the leading edge. I saw this done on a RCSB thread and had to do it myself. Really adds to the look!!! I used 1/64 Plywood for this application. Once I had the geometry right on the first sheet coming from the fuse line/faring, I created a jig to bend the plywood so it would be easier to work with as I glued them into place. I soaked them in Amonia and the kept them in the jig for several hours, until they were completely dry. I went ahead and drilled the rivet pattern I wanted, knowing some Epoxy would fill them up but at least they would be a good mark for me when I started to "rivet party" and then I could clean them up more.
I did use 30 Min. Epoxy for this application, using 60 grit SP to prep the wing surface and also the back of the 1/64 Ply. I only had one of these sections break on me during this whole process, which is awesome! Just re-making one was no problem.
11-11-2013, 12:16 PM
#35
More wing detail. In doing a bit of research, it was said that some of the A-6 and A-8 had four wing gun configurations…not many but some. So, I went with the second blister on the top of the wing and also underneath…makes it look cooler anyway
. I had to fabricate these on the top of the wing and the bottom too. I used 1/32 Plywood as my base and balsa blocks to build up the blisters. Then used 3/4oz FG cloth and resin to finish them up. Put them on with epoxy and micro balloons for easier sanding.
. I had to fabricate these on the top of the wing and the bottom too. I used 1/32 Plywood as my base and balsa blocks to build up the blisters. Then used 3/4oz FG cloth and resin to finish them up. Put them on with epoxy and micro balloons for easier sanding.
11-11-2013, 06:52 PM
#37
Haha…yep! Dino at Meister sells the gear, wheels and the working canopy system. It was a BOOGER to get in this FG Fuse and would have been so much easier with a built up fuse. You can build a stick built fuse around the working parts and deck OR adjust the wood frame much easier than dealing with a FG fuse. This FG fuse, you have to grind and fit, re-fit and fit again…rounded seem lines and fuse walls thicker in some places…you know the drill.
I can't complain about this fuse though…rock solid and very workable. Prefer FG now over built up fuses.
I'll talk to you more about the canopy system when you come by and see the airframe.
I can't complain about this fuse though…rock solid and very workable. Prefer FG now over built up fuses.
I'll talk to you more about the canopy system when you come by and see the airframe.
11-13-2013, 05:41 AM
#38
Set the wings aside for now…tackling the Working Canopy system. This requires time and some patience!!! The fit of the deck that holds the components is about fitting, sanding, fitting more, sanding more…not just gluing it in when you are close! The canopy needs to slide nice and square and these rails are critical for ON THE MONEY distance for a smooth action.
Got the canopy slide kit from Dino at Meister-Scale. Figured if I'm building a kit I might as well go all the way on stuff like this! It's pretty straight forward. I am modifying a few things along the way and will talk about the mods at the end of the install.
Got the canopy slide kit from Dino at Meister-Scale. Figured if I'm building a kit I might as well go all the way on stuff like this! It's pretty straight forward. I am modifying a few things along the way and will talk about the mods at the end of the install.
11-14-2013, 05:00 AM
#43
Thanks guys. This project has "saved" the hobby for me. Got into the "helping manufacturers" side of thing with jets and absolutely burned me out and burned me up! I CD'd a warbird event last October here in ATL and thought, "maybe I just need to go back and build a kit and forget about the ARF stuff for a while." I ordered this FW190A from Dino in March. Had the fuse delivered through a friend that went to TopGun and brought it home for me in May. I could have had the fuse before but saved $60 on shipping, plus I wasn't ready for it to be in my shop…two other projects I was doing for a buddy.
Got the rest of the stuff…Wing and tail kit, gear, working canopy, wheels, pilot and cockpit as the budget would allow. I like building when I have everything in front of me. I did have to wait a bit on the wings since there was some mods done to work with the FG Fuse. But that was only a 3 week delay. I have made some errors along the way for sure…but grateful nothing was beyond re-do.
Got the rest of the stuff…Wing and tail kit, gear, working canopy, wheels, pilot and cockpit as the budget would allow. I like building when I have everything in front of me. I did have to wait a bit on the wings since there was some mods done to work with the FG Fuse. But that was only a 3 week delay. I have made some errors along the way for sure…but grateful nothing was beyond re-do.
11-14-2013, 05:12 AM
#44
Btw, I'm a couple of weeks ahead of the thread on my build…so I'm not in "super human" form here. I just didn't want to add to the already big "bone yard" of unfinished airframe threads!!! I'm just sharing my "sequence" of the build as it happened. This gives me some heads up to share the errors and hurdles that come along…in hindsight where the wisdom can be gleaned.
Finished up the working canopy. I used 5oz. FG cloth and Zap 30 min. epoxy to install the canopy deck. Actually, I think I said this before but I used 5oz FG cloth with Epoxy rather than Hysol on all formers to the Fuse since epoxy will absorb into the fuse material and wood formers while Hysol will not nearly as much. I had to "wing" most of it since the instructions that come with the canopy kit are…well, hieroglyphic in nature! Thankfully had some pics on a build thread from RCScaleBuilders that was helpful.
Finished up the working canopy. I used 5oz. FG cloth and Zap 30 min. epoxy to install the canopy deck. Actually, I think I said this before but I used 5oz FG cloth with Epoxy rather than Hysol on all formers to the Fuse since epoxy will absorb into the fuse material and wood formers while Hysol will not nearly as much. I had to "wing" most of it since the instructions that come with the canopy kit are…well, hieroglyphic in nature! Thankfully had some pics on a build thread from RCScaleBuilders that was helpful.
11-14-2013, 07:22 PM
#45
This is my maiden photo.....10 years ago! Been through some incidents, but still one of my favorite warbirds.
I still have the original BME 61 twin in it, which flies it just fine, so no doubt the 111 will zip right along. You might as well put a big motor in it: I think I have 56 oz of lead in the nose, so why not put some "muscle-weight" up front
11-15-2013, 03:17 PM
#46
Kram, the 190A is my favorite WW II warbird airframe, hands down. I had a Airworld 190A with a Moki 250 radial a few years ago and have missed it so much. But my budget has changed much since then…so if I want something now…I need to go with a kit. Grateful for the FG fuse for sure! I went with the 111 because I wanted a twin to help with vibration reduction on the airframe. Plus, this will be a heavier bird with the FG fuse. Yeppers on the nose weight…LOL!!!
These FG fuses are so well built and great to work with through the build.
Your 190 looks awesome!!!
These FG fuses are so well built and great to work with through the build.
Your 190 looks awesome!!!
11-15-2013, 03:26 PM
#47
The rear section of the canopy glass, I covered with 1/64 ply. I soaked it in ammonia and the wrapped it around a Tall plastic Cup (tapered helps) till it was nice and dry. This made it soooo much easier to work with and glue in place. (see above pics)
Also, notice the back of the rear canopy…I decided to cut the last 2" off and go with a shaped Balsa block instead of fighting with the curve of the canopy glass meeting the canopy deck. I used 3/4oz cloth and two applications of ZAP finishing resin, sanded and primed it in with the rest of the canopy frame. Turned out great this way!
Finished up the canopy and now to tackle the final fuse formers I want to set up.
Also, notice the back of the rear canopy…I decided to cut the last 2" off and go with a shaped Balsa block instead of fighting with the curve of the canopy glass meeting the canopy deck. I used 3/4oz cloth and two applications of ZAP finishing resin, sanded and primed it in with the rest of the canopy frame. Turned out great this way!
Finished up the canopy and now to tackle the final fuse formers I want to set up.
Last edited by rbxbear44; 11-15-2013 at 03:30 PM.
11-16-2013, 05:37 AM
#48
Ok, got a few PM's about "any hurdles" or "issues" to be careful of so far. The answer…a few. I am not a "regular" warbird builder so these comments do not come from years of building knowledge. But, they are based on my experience with this build on a Meister Kit and FG Fuse.
First one…Setting the Gear Mounting Rails to correct location and angles. The wing is set for the gear to be 3-4" out from it's scale location, based on the rib designs and doublers. If you want the gear there for a wider stance, then you are fine. I wanted the gear as close to scale location as possible for both looks and the fact that you get a deeper pocket for the tires to retract into all the way, not taking the materials of the wing skin down to paper thin. So, I opted to push the mounting rails in one full rib, beginning at rib 4 rather than rib 5. I had to create a Doubler for that rib, trying to use the others where the rails were designed to go as a template. I could do no more until I had both wings able to join with the Spar Brace. Set it up on a table and slowly work to get the gear set up without any toe in/out problems, the "cant" of the struts being correct and the forward rake being correct. I wish I could give Dino a great set of new Rib Doublers to use for everyone else but I was moving things so much…my final setup was so perfect, I didn't want to pull it all apart to get them!!! Sorry
As a buddy of mine says, it's just building warbirds so get through it!
Bottom line, yes…it is some work but so is everything else and this is no reason to not build this airframe!!!
I am building another one of these next Spring, so maybe then between myself and Terry Farmer, we will come up with a standard set of Ribs and Doublers to get this gear where it needs to be.
I'll deal with the next "issue" later since this is already getting to be a looooonnnnggg post!
First one…Setting the Gear Mounting Rails to correct location and angles. The wing is set for the gear to be 3-4" out from it's scale location, based on the rib designs and doublers. If you want the gear there for a wider stance, then you are fine. I wanted the gear as close to scale location as possible for both looks and the fact that you get a deeper pocket for the tires to retract into all the way, not taking the materials of the wing skin down to paper thin. So, I opted to push the mounting rails in one full rib, beginning at rib 4 rather than rib 5. I had to create a Doubler for that rib, trying to use the others where the rails were designed to go as a template. I could do no more until I had both wings able to join with the Spar Brace. Set it up on a table and slowly work to get the gear set up without any toe in/out problems, the "cant" of the struts being correct and the forward rake being correct. I wish I could give Dino a great set of new Rib Doublers to use for everyone else but I was moving things so much…my final setup was so perfect, I didn't want to pull it all apart to get them!!! Sorry
As a buddy of mine says, it's just building warbirds so get through it!Bottom line, yes…it is some work but so is everything else and this is no reason to not build this airframe!!!
I am building another one of these next Spring, so maybe then between myself and Terry Farmer, we will come up with a standard set of Ribs and Doublers to get this gear where it needs to be.
I'll deal with the next "issue" later since this is already getting to be a looooonnnnggg post!
Last edited by rbxbear44; 11-16-2013 at 05:40 AM.
11-17-2013, 09:42 PM
#49
The other "issue" have had so far is the canopy glass meeting the fuse properly with the front canopy section. One error I made was to assume the cut lines on the glass would be close to fit since this is a well established kit. Well, Since my focus was on the moving part of the canopy first…that's where I worked from on the fit, thinking the forward glass would be a breeze. When I completed the rear canopy section, trying to line up the two sections, I came to realize I had a geometry problem both on angle and height to make things work. Plus, unless I wanted to have the lower frame "bend in" to meet the fuse sides…I needed to build up the fuse between the forward cockpit area and the gun hood. It was not that hard once I figured out what needed to be done and what I wanted it to look like. These pics should tell the story and the fix. In hind site, I would still do this the same way.
Again, this issue is not that big of a deal either in relation to the quality of Fuse you get .
Pic 2 shows the 1/2" taper I had to cut from the original canopy glass line. (Note the bottom of the glass and follow the tape line)
Once I got this right, I worked on forming the fuse for the sides to be filled in more to keep the glass from deflecting in when I set it permanently on the fuse.
I used 1/8" Balsa sheeting and then glassed it with 3/4oz. cloth, sanded and prep'd for primer that would go on later. (final pic is the Balsa glassed)
Moving on to the tail feathers being set and rear fuse joined.
Again, this issue is not that big of a deal either in relation to the quality of Fuse you get .
Pic 2 shows the 1/2" taper I had to cut from the original canopy glass line. (Note the bottom of the glass and follow the tape line)
Once I got this right, I worked on forming the fuse for the sides to be filled in more to keep the glass from deflecting in when I set it permanently on the fuse.
I used 1/8" Balsa sheeting and then glassed it with 3/4oz. cloth, sanded and prep'd for primer that would go on later. (final pic is the Balsa glassed)
Moving on to the tail feathers being set and rear fuse joined.
11-19-2013, 08:59 PM
#50
Worked on the Stab mounting, being careful to square it with the fuse from the centerline of the top of the firewall back to stab tips, right and left. Plus with the wings in the saddle (which was perfect on the FG Fuse by the way), getting it set properly in relation to the wing took some time. There was so much visible deflections with peripheral objects, I had to move the airframe from my shop up to our Dining Room Table to get a good look in all directions, not letting a "visual line" mess up a "true line" so to speak.
On the FG Fuse, the stab location is marked on both sides of the fuse tail section. Unfortunately, one side was off by about 3/16". The port side ended up the correct location and incidence (2 degrees Positive) was almost perfect. What I did was cut the port side close to the lines and then enlarged the starboard side a bit for "adjusting room". With adding a 1/64" fairing where the Stab meets the fuse…it was no problem to make a larger slot for the Stab since it will be covered up in the end. I wanted a more evident fairing than was molded into the fuse.
If you notice in these pics, I did add 1/64" Ply on the trailing edge top and bottom of the Stab to conceal the Elev. hinge line gap.
Once I got the stab where I wanted it, I carefully pre-drilled 4 screw holes and screwed the tail section to the forward fuse section, being very careful to re-measure after placing each screw in the pre-drilled hole. This somewhat "locked" the tail in place and gave me a starting point to re-assemble the two fuse sections when I glued them in place. I drilled several holes around the inside of the fuse joint to create "Glue Cleats" once I pressed the sections together, causing Hysol to squeeze through them and form a better bond and mass.
On the FG Fuse, the stab location is marked on both sides of the fuse tail section. Unfortunately, one side was off by about 3/16". The port side ended up the correct location and incidence (2 degrees Positive) was almost perfect. What I did was cut the port side close to the lines and then enlarged the starboard side a bit for "adjusting room". With adding a 1/64" fairing where the Stab meets the fuse…it was no problem to make a larger slot for the Stab since it will be covered up in the end. I wanted a more evident fairing than was molded into the fuse.
If you notice in these pics, I did add 1/64" Ply on the trailing edge top and bottom of the Stab to conceal the Elev. hinge line gap.
Once I got the stab where I wanted it, I carefully pre-drilled 4 screw holes and screwed the tail section to the forward fuse section, being very careful to re-measure after placing each screw in the pre-drilled hole. This somewhat "locked" the tail in place and gave me a starting point to re-assemble the two fuse sections when I glued them in place. I drilled several holes around the inside of the fuse joint to create "Glue Cleats" once I pressed the sections together, causing Hysol to squeeze through them and form a better bond and mass.