Ziroli p-47 92" blown up to 110"
04-06-2014, 12:50 PM
#126
Thanks, Paul.
Any pictures of Toledo can be posted under my road trips 2014 thread:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-w...ps-2014-a.html
========
Engine box:
Was hysol'ed and screwed to the fire wall.
Resin applied to the back side for fuel proofing.
Wings:
1/64" thick ply cut and CA'ed to cover the aileron gap.
Nav light cut out.
fin/rudder:
1/64" thick ply cut and CA'ed covering the rudder gap.
Last edited by samparfitt; 04-07-2014 at 08:37 AM.
04-07-2014, 08:04 AM
#129
Thanks, Peter.
I enjoyed meeting you and Barb.
Any pictures of Toledo, you can post them under my road trips 2014 thread:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-w...ps-2014-a.html
===========
Tail gear doors/hatch (cont)
While at Toledto, I got some clear plastic template material from Brian at Dbalsa (cockpit kits).
http://www.seetemp.com/products.htm
The clear plastic (seetemp) comes in good size sheets of 22"X52".
I taped the seetemp over the doors and hatch and outlined the doors and hatch. This is a lot easier than making my own template from paper since I can see where to draw the lines.
I then just taped the seetemp to the CF doors/hatch and used a diamond metal cut off disk to cut just outside of the lines. I finished off by using the band sander to get the final dimensions, resulting in nice fitting doors and hatch.
Glassing (cont)
Since I went 'long wise' (having one piece of cloth for the full 55" wing) when using the FG cloth on the top of the wings, I had leftover FG cloth pieces which worked nice to cover the belly pan, flaps and ailerons along with the vertical fin. I usually only do one side at a time but the fin could be clamped vertically so I did both sides at once, using one piece to wrap around the LE.
Last edited by samparfitt; 04-07-2014 at 08:35 AM.
04-07-2014, 03:09 PM
#130
Glassing:
Front, top half of the fuse done.
Before glassing the bottom of the wings, I sanded the top getting the resin shine down to a dull finish (cheated and used my orbital sander: good for flat surfaces). Masking tape put over the gun holes and all G10 hinges. I'm partial to putting the cloth over the area, pour the resin down the center and work outwards using a bondo applicator.
Last edited by samparfitt; 04-07-2014 at 03:15 PM.
04-08-2014, 05:41 AM
#132
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Wonderful build! I have a 190 thread at another RC build site and I have a Moki 180 for it. I haven't noticed any other 190s with a Moki 150 (same diameter as the 180) making the firewall angled for the thrust. Is this specific to the Jug or to the larger Moki 250?
04-08-2014, 11:30 AM
#133
Beasley,
I build mostly Ziroli and, from what I remember, all of them require down and right thrust to compensate for engine torque, etc. As far as I'm aware of, most single gas powered planes, at least warbirds, usually have down and right thrust added.
============
Glassing (cont)
About 6 hours worth of hand sanding!
Still need to glass the stab/elevators, bottoms of flaps, ailerons and fuse.
Last edited by samparfitt; 04-08-2014 at 11:41 AM.
04-08-2014, 03:15 PM
#134
Sam, what glassing technique are you doing? Are you applying the cloth and removing the excess resin. Then are you doing a second coat to fill the weave? On my prototype I did a heavy coat on the first pas with the cloth then hit it again with a second coat using a brush. ThenI primed and sanded it all off. On my current build I an doing a coat with the cloths squeegee all the exes as off then spackle to fill the weave, I'm new to glassing so just tryingto learn.
TB
TB
04-08-2014, 04:56 PM
#135
Tony,
I put it on thick enough so only one coat is needed. I use ZAP's finishing resin. Sometimes, a spot may not have enough resin to fill the weave but I don't worry about it as the auto primer that I use is a 2 part epoxy and fills in the weave. My procedure requires a lot of sanding (6 hours today on parts in previous thread). You'll have to decide what's best for you: one coat or two coats, or your method mentioned. Like all things, there is no 'just one way to do it'; pick what's comfortable for you.
=============
Elevator linkage:
I wasn't comfortable with just a screw perpendicular to the CF rod for strength so I drilled a 90 degree hole through the rod and into the solid balsa elevator and inserted a 1/8" diameter by 2" long steel rod.
Glassing:
Did the bottoms of the flaps, ailerons and fuse and one side of the stab, elevators and rudder.
04-09-2014, 08:16 AM
#136
Carf 4 blade adjustable prop:
Just arrived via Fedex.
First, the hardware kit is screwed onto the moki's shaft hub.
The blades are CF. They have pins but the hub doesn't have a 'dial' system, like the solo has. I'm guessing that the blades would work in a solo hub. I'm also guessing that you just eyeball the blade pitch as there are no tic marks, etc on blades or hub.
Carf's hub has 3 bolts per side plus the main bolt to easily add/remove the prop. The back of the hub has 6 recesses that fit the hardware kit on the moki's shaft hub. With a 30" diameter, the prop is close to scale. I like the scale size spinner.
Thinking about it, I'll add my own tic marks, using a felt tip, to the blades and hub to get some consistency between all the blade pitches.
Update:
Andy said there was suppose to be a prop gauge so he'll send me one.
That will make 'life' easier!
Last edited by samparfitt; 04-09-2014 at 08:31 AM.
04-10-2014, 12:56 PM
#139
Glassing (cont)
The first few pictures show how thick I apply the resin.
Stab/elevators, rudder and fuse finished sanding.
The back sides always have a lot of waste that has to be sanded off.
For me I would have had a difficult time sanding the stab and fuse if the two were one piece. Also, the stab is a little stronger having FG across the center of the stab.
Last edited by samparfitt; 04-10-2014 at 12:59 PM.
04-10-2014, 01:53 PM
#140
Sam, that glass looks nice and thick! On my first round I glassed heavy, you can see how thick in my pics. I primed then sanded it all off to give me a gage so I did not sand threw. Like you said, it is a lot of work. This was my first glass job. So this time I might try something different.
04-10-2014, 02:30 PM
#141
Tony,
I just sand until all gloss is gone. I don't worry about how thick it is. This exoskeleton is extremely tough and really makes the plane strong. I don't worry about weight. Personally, I think heavy war birds fly better: more scale in turns, wind (and it's always a cross wind at the field) affects the plane less and once the plane lands, it rarely lift back off the ground. We're not talking about flip flopping a plane in the air, just basic war bird aerobatics.
I also don't mind the hard work to sand: it good exercise (and, at my age, I need all the exercise I can get!).
If you want lite, do small areas with small amounts of resin (as it starts jelling very quickly): that way you can squeegee most of it off and use paper towels to clean off the applicator and/or soak up excess resin.
If you're very careful, you can use a small hand orbital sander to remove excess resin: power tools allows you to make mistakes quickly so care needs to be taken, and it usually best just to do relatively flat areas and stay away from edges and corners.
I buy bulk (50-100) sheets of sandpaper and wrap it around a paint stick and combination of just sanding with a folded sheet. 3M scotchbrite is nice as a buffer, putting the sand paper on one side and hand sanding, the thick plastic/foam conforms to contours, while sanding. I usually just put a paint mask on, along with latex gloves, and go at it. A lot of work but it's all done in usually 3-5 days. Worth it when you've spent many hours building a plane. I probably went through 15-20 sheets of sand paper. If it starts 'clogging', I just cut off that part from the paint stick and continue on. Usually, once you get by the gloss, the paper lasts longer. All corners and edges are usually done by hand using a folded sheet of paper.
I like the resin because it's a 'known' results for me: I know when it's 90 at the field, my dark colored paint isn't going to bubble on me.
Painting is the easy part, it's all the prep that takes all the work. I don't want to spend hundreds of hours building a plane, only to have the finish lift due to heat.
Sanding primer is usually pretty easy as I use 220 wet and lots of water keeps the paper from clogging. I'm partial to my local auto stores 2 part auto primer: thick and easy to wet sand. I get a super smooth finish with the 2 part primer. Not cheap, usually about 25-35 a quart, but, again, a known product for me that gives a super substrate to paint on. I leave most of the primer on as I need it for panel lines and making rivets.
I usually get my sandpaper from this company:
http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/
I'll spend a 100 bucks or so and get lots of sand paper (wet and dry), sanding disks, etc. Packs of paper 50-100 sheets from 15-30 bucks, which is pretty cheap per sheet. When sanding, I can go through sheets of paper like popcorn and it's nice to get another sheet out, knowing each sheet didn't cost me a buck or more.
I just sand until all gloss is gone. I don't worry about how thick it is. This exoskeleton is extremely tough and really makes the plane strong. I don't worry about weight. Personally, I think heavy war birds fly better: more scale in turns, wind (and it's always a cross wind at the field) affects the plane less and once the plane lands, it rarely lift back off the ground. We're not talking about flip flopping a plane in the air, just basic war bird aerobatics.
I also don't mind the hard work to sand: it good exercise (and, at my age, I need all the exercise I can get!).
If you want lite, do small areas with small amounts of resin (as it starts jelling very quickly): that way you can squeegee most of it off and use paper towels to clean off the applicator and/or soak up excess resin.
If you're very careful, you can use a small hand orbital sander to remove excess resin: power tools allows you to make mistakes quickly so care needs to be taken, and it usually best just to do relatively flat areas and stay away from edges and corners.
I buy bulk (50-100) sheets of sandpaper and wrap it around a paint stick and combination of just sanding with a folded sheet. 3M scotchbrite is nice as a buffer, putting the sand paper on one side and hand sanding, the thick plastic/foam conforms to contours, while sanding. I usually just put a paint mask on, along with latex gloves, and go at it. A lot of work but it's all done in usually 3-5 days. Worth it when you've spent many hours building a plane. I probably went through 15-20 sheets of sand paper. If it starts 'clogging', I just cut off that part from the paint stick and continue on. Usually, once you get by the gloss, the paper lasts longer. All corners and edges are usually done by hand using a folded sheet of paper.
I like the resin because it's a 'known' results for me: I know when it's 90 at the field, my dark colored paint isn't going to bubble on me.
Painting is the easy part, it's all the prep that takes all the work. I don't want to spend hundreds of hours building a plane, only to have the finish lift due to heat.
Sanding primer is usually pretty easy as I use 220 wet and lots of water keeps the paper from clogging. I'm partial to my local auto stores 2 part auto primer: thick and easy to wet sand. I get a super smooth finish with the 2 part primer. Not cheap, usually about 25-35 a quart, but, again, a known product for me that gives a super substrate to paint on. I leave most of the primer on as I need it for panel lines and making rivets.
I usually get my sandpaper from this company:
http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.com/
I'll spend a 100 bucks or so and get lots of sand paper (wet and dry), sanding disks, etc. Packs of paper 50-100 sheets from 15-30 bucks, which is pretty cheap per sheet. When sanding, I can go through sheets of paper like popcorn and it's nice to get another sheet out, knowing each sheet didn't cost me a buck or more.
Last edited by samparfitt; 04-10-2014 at 02:51 PM.
04-10-2014, 02:58 PM
#143
Dan,
80 or 100 does a quick job. Presently, I'm out of 80 so I've been using the 100. I prefer 80 as it works faster. We don't need smooth yet as the primer will take care of that. That's why I use 220 wet sanding the primer.
One thing that always gets me is: the sanded resin looks so smooth: UNTIL you put the primer on to see all your mistakes. But, that's what primer is for: I'll wet sand the primer to a dull finish. There will always be shiny spots (that are low) and I just use 3M glazing compound (red stuff) to fill in the low spots, sand and, usually a second coat of primer is all that's needed. The panel lines (chart tape) are also added before the 2nd coat is added. Final wet sanding and she's ready for paint.
80 or 100 does a quick job. Presently, I'm out of 80 so I've been using the 100. I prefer 80 as it works faster. We don't need smooth yet as the primer will take care of that. That's why I use 220 wet sanding the primer.
One thing that always gets me is: the sanded resin looks so smooth: UNTIL you put the primer on to see all your mistakes. But, that's what primer is for: I'll wet sand the primer to a dull finish. There will always be shiny spots (that are low) and I just use 3M glazing compound (red stuff) to fill in the low spots, sand and, usually a second coat of primer is all that's needed. The panel lines (chart tape) are also added before the 2nd coat is added. Final wet sanding and she's ready for paint.
Last edited by samparfitt; 04-10-2014 at 03:04 PM.
04-10-2014, 04:56 PM
#145
Thanks for all the info Sam. I agree with you on the go heavy and take the time to sand. The prototype was 37lb ready to fly and flew great despite being 7-10 lb heavier then most modles of this kit. So I will do the same system as I did on the prototype, I like a thick skin. 
TB
TB
04-11-2014, 07:56 AM
#146
Wing fillets on the fuse:
I forgot how big there are and wasted easy sand when I, previously, filled in the inside edge with easy sand.
I drew the upper outline on the fuse where the fillet ends and filled in the area with 1/8"X1/4" and 1/4" square stringers and thin CA.
The first two along the fuse edge were sanded to a taper and CA'ed to the fuse. Nothing fancy for the rest of them, just CA'ed them and broke the ends to get bends around the fillet.
I then wrapped one of the oscillating sanding drums with sandpaper and sanded a concave form for the fillet. While sanding, once in awhile one of the stringer ends would pop up so some CA was used to put it back in place.
Finally, some easy sand to fill in the gaps and another sanding did the job.
04-11-2014, 09:15 AM
#147
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Sam have you given any thought to what paint you are going to use? I'm building a Meister P-47 and for the photos I have of the real P-47 the only colors I can think of are War bird colors. any in put would be help full. Thanks John T.
04-11-2014, 12:31 PM
#148
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(((((((((( http://www.phippsrepro.com/
Ask for P-47 planes or he may have it under my name.)))))))))))))))
CAREFULL DUDE!!! THOSE PLANS ARE COPY WRITE'D !! YOU CAN BLOW THEM UP YOURSELF AND USE THEM,,, BUT NOT SELL THEM...FYI !!!!
Ask for P-47 planes or he may have it under my name.)))))))))))))))
CAREFULL DUDE!!! THOSE PLANS ARE COPY WRITE'D !! YOU CAN BLOW THEM UP YOURSELF AND USE THEM,,, BUT NOT SELL THEM...FYI !!!!
04-11-2014, 02:12 PM
#150
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Sam:
As you know, I have several large models with the 144 inch B-26 and 144 in P-47 being the largest. Both have a three piece wing and i love it I transport them on the mains in my trailer and then just plug in the outer wing panels. It sure is a lot easier than transporting the fuselage by its self and a two piece wing. I also have a 116 inch sea fury with a three piece wing. I would highly recommend a three piece wing. Easy transportation and easy set up at the field
Brian OMeara
As you know, I have several large models with the 144 inch B-26 and 144 in P-47 being the largest. Both have a three piece wing and i love it I transport them on the mains in my trailer and then just plug in the outer wing panels. It sure is a lot easier than transporting the fuselage by its self and a two piece wing. I also have a 116 inch sea fury with a three piece wing. I would highly recommend a three piece wing. Easy transportation and easy set up at the field
Brian OMeara