bhady

I am sick and tired of everyone having to bow down to the politically correct whiners. If an enemy aircraft had a swastika on it and the model is built to represent an enemy aircraft aircraft, put it on. As was said above, what about the rising sun, or the Red Star? Since WW2, many former enemy soldiers have come to this country, do we worry if they are offended by the Stars and Stripes or the British roundel? I think not. Those men were soldiers who fought for their country also. Many veterans who fought each other years ago are now on friendly terms.
bhady

Aero65

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That's very cool Casey! The Zero look's great with Sakai san in the cockpit.
Left you a PM about the Pacific Air museum show in August on Ford Island.

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

For God's sake, it's on a German war plane. Not your forehead or you Chevy, Ford or Toyota.

I have tons of German warbirds. I also have American, Russian, British, and Japenese. I'm not a big fan of the Turks, but if you want a Turkish warbird, (1915 Genocide and all.) it's cool.

I don't.

Get what you want while it's still AMERICA! Equality for all right.

Steve

loopdeeloop

My Feedback: (4)

This thread has begun to run off the rails like so many others pertaining to controversial issues. It has been implied that if one displays the swastika that person is deemed to be a Nazi which is hardly the case. This entire discussion was about the “sensitivity” of displaying the swastika – big difference. Then there are those who feel they have no problem displaying it because it is “educational” or “lest we forget” and then there is the thought that if one does not display the symbol you are sticking your head in the sand. Then there are those who feel they can display anything they want with an “all others be damned” attitude. Look at it this way. Assume your son or daughter was killed or seriously injured in a car crash. For purposes of this discussion it doesn’t matter how it happened or who was at fault. You elect to put the wrecked car on display as a reminder of what can happen. For you it serves a special purpose and you have the right to do that. But what about your neighbor’s feelings whose son or daughter was also killed in that accident and they must walk or drive past that wrecked vehicle each day. That scene may be particularly upsetting to them. Because they don’t want to see it does not mean they are “sticking their head in the sand”. The swastika discussion isn’t about being politically correct. It's about decency and respect.

mikes68charger

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Not my original post. I knew there would be some issues with a plane with the symbol but the plane I wanted to put it on was an captured P47.

hellcat56

My Feedback: (21)

LUFT GANSTER
you posted
. I respect my fathers generation by not letting people forget. I use the call sign of Luft-Gangster for that very reason (Terror Fleegan was another) its what the germans call our pilots and air crews.
I am a history nut and don't understand "Luft-Gangster or (Terror Fleegan" what does those two words mean?
By the way my Warbirds planes have ALL the correct markings for whatever nation they fought for, it wouldn't be a WARBIRD if it is not painted correct similar to a P 51 in racing colors But that is another GREAT discussion
I did a Polish D 21 years ago, curious did they call it a swaskia

frets24

My Feedback: (15)

Using that same logic the following statement would also be true; all elephants are grey, some rats are grey, therefore all grey rats are also elephants......

Judging in scale compitition has allowed for the substitution of specific symbology to accomodate those who might be coming from a local flying field, community, country or personal conviction that does not allow certian symbology to be displayed on their (the owner's) A/C not because they (the community at large) specifically have a problem with it (German law and the Swastika excluded)

By your statement above the following excerpt from a set of scale guidelines would indicate that the scale community at large are not only Nazi haters, but even more so haters of America, Israel, Judeaism and Christianity as well: (capitalisation, spelling, punctuation errors as published)

(G) "Symbology and nomenclature; Points shall not be deducted for the following reasons:

...... 4)The Swastika on WWII subjects (Finland, Germany, Latvia, etc) may be omitted, "Boxed" or coloured out. Further the German Swastika as specifically used for victory or "kill" tabulation on allied subjects may be substituted with an "X", "+", " I ", " / " or period correct National insignia ie) the German Cross.

.....6) The Star of david (all forms) may be omitted, including as National Insignia; no substitutions allowed.

7) The Cristian cross or it's likeness, ie) Free France, Portugal, serbia, Slovakia, etc, may be omitted other than as National Insignia. Natioal insignia background May be substituted as a solid colour field of appropriate size and shape ie) circle, shield, etc.

8) The american Flag (all forms) may be omitted. No substitutions.

Other points not copied dealt with nose-art nudity, nick-names and language; ("Brooklyn B_st_rds", "H_ll Bound", etc),legibility due to weathering, mis-spellings that were documented...stuff like that. Intrestingly there was no mention of the Japanese "Hinomaru(meatball)", Communist China,Korea or Russia insignia or any Islamist type insignia.


They are just depictions and artwork people....get over yourselves and your thin skinned victim-like sensitivities unless the individual displays an agreement with the ideology. Then deal with the person not the artwork.

Perish the thought of the idea that the WWII 'star and bar' automatically indicates support of the American WWII policy of incinerating every single man, woman and child in Japan with our new toy; Napalm beginning in 1943....Heck, when that didn't work fast enough we just "nuked 'em".
Maybe we should ban the 'star and bar' on American WWII A/C as well since that would obviously indicate a full fervent belief in those ancient policies and the idea that those policies should still be in effect and pursued today!!

This is what happens when we try not offend anyone's tender sensitivities and forget that we alone are responsible for making the choice as to whether or not we will allow ourselves to be offended and by what. Lest we forget, we all have some sacred cow that could well be offensive to someone else. It all depends on where your viewpoint is.
I eat beef cheese-burgers while wearing some type of foot covering or shoes and use both hands while eating it...That is forbidden or highly offensive to no less than 9 ideology groups that I can think of......Perhaps cheese-burgers should be forbidden as well.......

Luft-Gangster

hellcat. My old nieghgor Jack Hamilton (former commander of American Leigon Post 419 of which I am a member now) was a navigator on a B-17 (washed out of flight school and went to navigator school - still capable of flying but not up to Army Air Force standards - at the time) ( Great idea if pilot & co-pilot were both lost) shot down over Germany in 1943 and spent the last year and 1/2 in Stalag Luft 1. I got the name from him and proudly use it in his honor. Luft german for air and gangster is American because in germany they didn't have the word and Terror was also American because Germany didn't have that word and Fleegan or Flyer in English. That is what they were called as they were led to their prisioner of war camp. On Jack's B-17 all 10 got out alive with Jack being the most seriously injured. They lost one engine and stared falling back in and out of the formation and were immediately pounced on by 5 FW-190A models and Jack took a 20mm cannon shell graze across the neck. The order to bail was given. Remember this was 1943 before D-Day over Germany. The probability of escape was very low. They all grouped up on the ground and stared making it for the coast. While crossing a bridge a German Officer rose from the other side, pointing his Lugar and yelled hault. ( He was making it with his girlfriend in the bushes on the other side or the bridge). They were escorted to a farm house where the German officer called for assistance and where Jack's wound was cared for by an old German woman who treated him like her own son. I read his book from Stalag Luft 1 on how they coped with being prisioners of war from when they had regular German Luftwaffe guards to Old men and boys to SS (when things got really bad) in the last 6 months of the war. Then finally when their Commanding Officer Hub Zemke ( Former first P-47 Squadron Commander in the 8th Air Force and in his 2nd tour in P-51 had a radiator shot out causing him to ditch and be captured ) held the camp together and took them out as a single unit to meet the advancing American forces. Jack was a retired Engineer from GM and I am also retired from GM Quality Management same plant. My war was Viet Nam of which I proudly served in the USAF (1970-74). Viet Nam 71-72 8th Aerial Port Squadron.

hellcat56

My Feedback: (21)

LUFT
WOW great history
thanks for sharing
It is hard to imagine those guys were probably 19-22yrs old on both sides
here some argue over a painting on an aircraft, when on both sides there were very brave men doing their duty for their country
as for german pilots Very Very Few were Nazi same for the army, the germans rose sometimes fewer than 10-20 planes to attack bomber formations and fighter cover of 500-1000

I am sure if we were in the same situation, our boys would have done the same
brave men or boys doing their duty for their country against terrible odds

the most frightening place to be in my opinion is inside a B 17 over the heartland of Germany
holding my course, in a straight line, loaded with bombs, flak you could walk on, fighter pilots with one goal--to shoot you down

I have been inside a B 17, it is a very small place and thought how would I have performed
I would hope it would be with the honor and dedication our men did

I have built many many planes German, Finnish, England, United States
I read somewhere if you were captured by Germans you had an 80% chance of making it home
by Japan you had a 20% chance of making it home--
never built or flown a Japanese--just my personal choice

bhady

I personally knew two men who were B-17 crewmen. Both had great respect for German aircraft and the men who flew them. Neither had an issue with any enemy aircraft markings. As noted above very few were Nazi's, just young men doing their duty for their country.
bhady

W7APD Alan

Wow! I usually steer clear of this type of discussion because there is really no way to win over anyone who has an opposite point of view. However, (and I'm normally one of the last people to support "political correctness"; just ask my wife,) in my opinion there are certain symbols that carry so much negative weight that it's kind of a no-win scenario. Either you choose to not display it, and you'll always know your model is less than authentic, or else you go ahead with it and damn the torpedoes. If you choose the latter, be assured that many people who will never say a word, will still have an opinion about the symbology and perhaps the person who used it.

So, YES, your wife and buddy are off, AND you are at least trying to feign blindness.

In my humble opinion...

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

It should be "flieger" for "flyer". Fliegen means "fly"

All emblems of power have bad meanings to someone. Jews hate the swastika, Arabs hate the Star of David, Americans hate the Islamic Crescent, Native Americans hate the Stars and Bars, and so on forever. All planes should be marked with blue and red balloons....no, wait, that might offend someone with a clown phobia.

JPerrone

The swastika is a small part of the overall decoration of the aircraft. I particularly like the German WWII airplanes because of their camouflage, and the variety of their camouflage. The evolution from early in war to late is quite diverse. Would you lose all those other elements if you left the swastika off? No. Something would be missing; but not a large part of it. Many wouldn't even notice what was missing

If you look at some of the plastic model art for European distribution, you'll notice that they replace the swastika with a rectangular box with a cross in it. Kind of like adding 4 more lines to the swastika. To me that's a reasonable compromise.


I'm not sure most people would even notice it, on the ground.
I'm SURE most people won't notice it when it's buzzing around!!!

That P-47's quite striking; the most striking part of it is the contrast of the khaki/drab and yellow. You'd get that even without the swastika

Luft-Gangster

Thanks for the clearification. My spelling was from memory from what Jack told me and that was years ago. He has since passed away, but his memory lives on.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

The truth is most people wouldn't be offended if they noticed or not. We really talking about being sensitive to the "offend-able minority". Unfortunately, they often take joy in being offended and go out of their way to find offense.

JPerrone

In the case of the offend-able minority, I would recommend using the same approach as my favorite approach to attracting women. Ignore them until they go away!!!

Regards

pippip

My Feedback: (10)

As a former US Marine if the real war bird never had USMC painted on the side I just can’t find myself owning it.

Sonny.C

My Feedback: (23)

I have no problem with the history of my German fighter aircraft models or with their scale markings (that includes the swastika emblem on their tails). I've never heard so much as a comment about the tail markings on my WWII German aircraft at our local club field or at any scale event - ever. My personal perspective and take on the subject is the paint scheme and markings on a model aircraft simply reflect a historical rendition of an actual aircraft that (in this case) I happen to apreciate and very much enjoy flying. The overly sensitive crowd will just have to continue feeling violated, disagreeing with my aircraft markings, and whine to themselves because I could care less about their sensitivities.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

It seems to me that the biggest factor in which warbird most RCers fly these days, is what is available to the ARF world. So that eliminates most German planes, as so few are offered.

uncljoe

My Feedback: (8)

Know exactly what your saying....
Semper Fi

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Really, I can think of many. In balsa you have the Hangar 9 ME-109 and TF FW-190. In composite ESM has models in different sizes of the ME-109, FW-190, BF-110, JU-87, DO-335, and BU-181. VQ offers the 109 and 190. If your into foamies there are a wealth of models of the 109, 190, Stuka, and the HS-123.

Maybe you meant comparatively fewer compared to ARF models of allied warbirds?

sidgates

My Feedback: (2)

My ancestors were German and Scottish, I am just American. I was in grade school during WWII and my personal feeling is I will not build or fly German or Japanese airplanes. I understand younger modelers don't feel this way and why they don't.

Later I flew in the USAF defending the northern US border against the Russian bombers. I have some resistance against modeling Russian jets but not as strong as the WWII era.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I am sure that there are RC pilots from other countries that would not go anywhere near a U.S. aircraft either. It just depends on your perspective.

kwik

In that case DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT whatch this video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVlrwnAsbSg

hellcat56

My Feedback: (21)

Great video
the engine sound is outstanding
good bit of editing
makes it look real---best compliment I can give you