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New Hangar 9 P-51 60cc

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Old 05-16-2018, 04:33 AM
  #1601  
Len Todd
 
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After flying it a bit, you might want to double check the flap hinge points in the wing. Mine were pulling out and they appeared good during the build.
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:56 AM
  #1602  
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Len Todd, none of the fiber glass hinges in the entire plane were properly prepared for gluing, you need to wiggle them ALL loose, then rough the surfaces and reglue. This includes sanding or filing the bad glue from the wood. I downloaded a video of an H9 Mustang that had the flap hinges fail in flight. The result was flap flutter and loss of the right wing panels. The only intact part of the plane was the wing panel that tore off in flight that failed at the wing root.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:58 AM
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Well, ... dang! I guess I'll keep a real close eye on them. So far only one Flap has been affected.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:14 AM
  #1604  
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I have owned 2 H9 Mustangs, both of them had hinges come loose in flight. I lost the first plane to a right flap hard over during the landing approach, I had to stand there and watch it do slow motion circles into the trees, Everything I tried with the controls made the situation worse. I don't know if the failure was caused by hinges coming loose, or a flap servo failure. I took steps with the second plane to insure that both possible problems could not happen again. The second plane had hinges fall out of the wing panels when the new wing was removed from its shipping carton. Some I glued in back in, some were in areas that required cutting into the bottom wing skins for access to the hinges. The ones that it was not possible to remove I crossdrilled and installed hardwood toothpicks for security. I haven't any any more loose hinges since. Even the tail hinges were affected by the shoddy factory construction. The people building and marketing this expensive model just don't care. It is a fine flying warbird and deserves your attention to fix these 'safety of flight' issues. Watch for fuselage skin cracking near the wing's rear attach points, especially under the rear of the canopy. The construction design is monocoque, skin cracks will crash it for you.
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Old 10-24-2018, 06:49 AM
  #1605  
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Anyone find a aftermarket source for Eflite's electric gear motor/drive unit? Buying another $100 complete gear operator from HH does not appeal to me.
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:56 PM
  #1606  
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Default zdz90 4blade prop

Originally Posted by raron455 View Post
Ok, so I decided on my engine, got it in the other day. I will be spinning a large 23inch beila 4 blade, so I have to have power. I bought the biggest single monster out there. The ZDZ 90. I have seen 1 on an aerobatic plane, and it is a beast, really didnt vibrate much, (unlike the DA85 I once owned) ran smooth. The firewall is thick on this plane .520 which is great, so I have no worries about the engine shaking it to death. I spent a little bit today laying it out and mounting it, it will fit good with some trimming on the lower cowl for the head. The exhaust will be more tricky I bought a stainless DIY header kit to make my own exhaust and I will hard mount a pitts muffler to the back of the firewall and tap the header into the muffler with a Teflon coupling. The zdz is too long for the plane for a nice tight cowl gap, so I am removing the prop hub putting it on my lathe and cutting it down 8.5mm. Will post more pix when its on there for final mounting.
Hi Raron, hope you are well could you tell me how the zdz90 on this mustang flew please?

Are you still flying her and how did/do you find the performance?

Im considering all the options out there

kind regards
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:58 AM
  #1607  
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I haven't even broken in the DA 60 and my Mustang has serious cracks in the wing center section and on the left side of the fuse at the rear of the wing, just under the canopy.. I had saved a damaged wing from my first Mustang so I put some strain on the wing to see what happens. The wing in front of the spars separated from the spar structure, coming apart easily. I can see all the way through this area and found no broken wood, only separated parts, AND NO GLUE!! There is no load carry through from the wing leading edge to back behind the spars, the front and rear wing structure is free to separate. The wing spars were not glued to the wing joiner, only laying under the wing skin, waiting for enough 'G' force to tear the wing off in flight. I have two of these wings and they BOTH have the same issue! Glassing the wing center section to upgrade these wings for safe flight is NECESSARY!

The fuselage crack became evident as a tear in the film covering. Close inspection shows the left side fuse skin is cracking down to the wing mounts, the only possible repair is to glass the fuse. This second plane only has 60 flights since brand new, and had 1 dead stick landing in tall brush that damaged the left gear mount on about the 5th flight. I had to cut out the original fake wood gear mounts and replaced them with aircraft grade plywood, the parts are easily removed with a hot knife and a little prying gets them out intact to use as a pattern for real wood parts, no further gear mount problems.

I have retired this plane until I can rebuild it properly. BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!! I can post pictures if anyone wants to see this.

Last edited by sjhanc; 11-06-2018 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:47 AM
  #1608  
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Originally Posted by raron455 View Post
Ok, so I decided on my engine, got it in the other day. I will be spinning a large 23inch beila 4 blade, so I have to have power. I bought the biggest single monster out there. The ZDZ 90. I have seen 1 on an aerobatic plane, and it is a beast, really didnt vibrate much, (unlike the DA85 I once owned) ran smooth. The firewall is thick on this plane .520 which is great, so I have no worries about the engine shaking it to death. I spent a little bit today laying it out and mounting it, it will fit good with some trimming on the lower cowl for the head. The exhaust will be more tricky I bought a stainless DIY header kit to make my own exhaust and I will hard mount a pitts muffler to the back of the firewall and tap the header into the muffler with a Teflon coupling. The zdz is too long for the plane for a nice tight cowl gap, so I am removing the prop hub putting it on my lathe and cutting it down 8.5mm. Will post more pix when its on there for final mounting.
Originally Posted by sjhanc View Post
Here is a picture taken of my #2 H 9 P-51D taken by my friend Mac. I flew it for its tenth flight today after the maiden flight of my TF GS P-47 Razorback. It gets better with every flight.

hi sjhanc ...amazing photo.

can i ask where you purchased your spinner from please? and size 5.5"?

kind regards

ryan
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:51 AM
  #1609  
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Originally Posted by sjhanc View Post
I haven't even broken in the DA 60 and my Mustang has serious cracks in the wing center section and on the left side of the fuse at the rear of the wing, just under the canopy.. I had saved a damaged wing from my first Mustang so I put some strain on the wing to see what happens. The wing in front of the spars separated from the spar structure, coming apart easily. I can see all the way through this area and found no broken wood, only separated parts, AND NO GLUE!! There is no load carry through from the wing leading edge to back behind the spars, the front and rear wing structure is free to separate. The wing spars were not glued to the wing joiner, only laying under the wing skin, waiting for enough 'G' force to tear the wing off in flight. I have two of these wings and they BOTH have the same issue! Glassing the wing center section to upgrade these wings for safe flight is NECESSARY!

The fuselage crack became evident as a tear in the film covering. Close inspection shows the left side fuse skin is cracking down to the wing mounts, the only possible repair is to glass the fuse. This second plane only has 50 flights since brand new, and had 1 dead stick landing in tall brush that damaged the left gear mount on about the 5th flight. I had to cut out the original fake wood gear mounts and replaced them with aircraft grade plywood, the parts are easily removed with a hot knife and a little prying gets them out intact to use as a pattern for real wood parts, no further gear mount problems.

I have retired this plane until I can rebuild it properly. BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!! I can post pictures if anyone wants to see this.
Oh buddy thats horrendous im sorry to hear that youve discovered these issues but at least found before a total RIP. ill definitely be tearing the win gopen on mine, hysoling everything and glass/paint the whole.thing. i want this to last me at least 5 seasons

thanks again for posting

interesting to see people with 100plus flights no mentioning any cracks/splits at all???
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Old 11-06-2018, 03:58 PM
  #1610  
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I will make a series of posts with descriptions in this thread.
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:24 PM
  #1611  
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Wing cracking.
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:35 PM
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Pictures of the wing structure taken of a wing that experienced a soft crash into tree tops, then fell into thick brush. Repairable, but the parts cost as much as a new plane kit. I clamped the wing leading and trailing edge to show the lack of any parts connecting the front of the wing to the rear structure. The wing sheeting is the ONLY structural component joining the front to the rear, and neither side is adequately attached to the wing spars. The wing's structural integrity relies on the approx. 3/32" thick skin sheeting.
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Old 11-06-2018, 04:54 PM
  #1613  
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Picture of the back side of the wing spar.
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Old 11-06-2018, 05:29 PM
  #1614  
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A picture of the wing structure where the flyable wing leading edge is cracked.

In my opinion, glassing the wing center section is required for safe flight. The glass cloth should be at least 2 oz. per yard to make up for the strength lost in the factory method of construction. Too bad a full kit is not offered, this would be a premium quality model with builder control of glues and construction methods, and substitution of good wood for the sub-standard wood for certain structural parts.

The only fix for the fuselage is a full glass covering. This Model as delivered IS NOT capable of handling aerobatics, should be flown slowly, and NO INVERTED maneuvers ALLOWED. No bouncy landings, either.

I know I'm being critical, but my military job was Aircraft Technical Inspector, trained to LOOK for this stuff in full size aircraft. I had to butt heads with maintenance officers, mechanics, and pilots many times over RED 'X' safety of flight issues with planes they wanted to just hop in and fly. I always refused to sign off on my inspections until it was repaired or adjusted properly, I always won the argument.
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Old 11-06-2018, 05:44 PM
  #1615  
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Ryan, sorry, I almost missed your spinner question. The 5 1/2 inch spinner is from Dave brown. I have owned both Tru-Turn and Dave Brown spinners, they both are good quality parts, but need balancing. They use different methods to build their spinners but the Dave brown is a better price. I am about to buy another Dave Brown for my new James Bates P-51 B, almost finished and ready to fly. Its dimensions are almost identical to The H9 model, but 'I' BUILT everything but the glass fuselage. I didn't like some of the wood that came with the woodcutter's kit, so I replaced it with better stuff.
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Old 11-06-2018, 07:12 PM
  #1616  
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Thanks, Steve, for the latest updates on your experiences with the Hangar 9 P-51 60CC.

I have 21 flights on my Hangar 9 P-51. Guess I had better keep an eye on the structure. Looks like I may not be able to put the stresses on it as I did on my TF P-51. The only problem I have noticed so far is the approx 1/2" firewall is squashing down and delaminating from tightening the DLE 55 RA stand-off bolts. If I had known from the start I would have placed some 1/8" AL plates front and back of the firewall. I needed the weight up front anyway.

Please keep us posted on your Bates P-51B. I am considering it as my next P-51.

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Old 11-06-2018, 09:05 PM
  #1617  
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Not a good picture, I'll post a better one after I get it together in sunlight.

I fly my planes fast, wide smooth turns and no snaps, I don't think my flying style is hard on airframes, no dumb thumb crashes, maybe 2 or 3 landings causing gear damage in a hundred flights. When I started flying giant scale Mustangs I got good advice from full scale Mustang pilots that really helped my take off and landing skills. I got used to getting several hundred fun flights from each of my planes. My building area is littered with worn out airframes, in too good shape to just toss. If I get too poor to buy new I can rebuild them.

My experience with these 2 planes was fun, but way too short. I could have gotten a lot more from them if had done it differently at the assembly stage, stripping and glassing plus what I learned about flap linkage on the #1 plane, at least that knowledge saved the second plane from the same fate. Having 2 tuned and flying warbirds become hangar queens in less than a year upsets my flying for the next couple of years. After the JB Mustang is flying I have to change my p47 Razorback from electric to gas, suddenly I have 2 gas engines that will work in it.

Now, I am convinced the way to go is a partial scratch build; buy plans, a glass fuselage and wood kit, build it my way. I am enjoying this JB Mustang build so much I will get another started soon. He sells a much larger version also, I'd go that way but my back just can't lift more than what I now have.

Last edited by sjhanc; 11-07-2018 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:20 PM
  #1618  
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Don't screw up you E-Flite electric landing gear operators. They are on backorder until at least April. Can't seem to find individual parts either. HH only offers the complete unit for $104.00 USD.

Anyone know of a source for individual aftermarket electric landing gear parts. I would like to get a spare drive motor.
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:19 AM
  #1619  
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is anyone running this plane with a Kolm IL-100 in line twin? can someone give me length from front of cowl to the front of motorbox and from front of cowl to F1 former? i think if i cut the motor box off, and move the firewall back to the f1, i can fit the beast in here.
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:54 AM
  #1620  
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The Kolm inline twin question was answered in an earlier post. I wouldn't recommend using any engine larger than a 40 cc engine in this fragile airframe (H9) unless the fuselage and wing center section are stripped and fiberglassed. Even a 40 cc engine will pull it fast enough to over-stress the airframe.

These pictures are of my James Bates P 51 B. Sorry about the poor quality, I am down to only one camera, and it is low resolution. I will post better pics when I can get my best friend Bill to go out with me and take some flying shots. I can report that it is a fine flying model, at least as good as the H9 P 51. The stall happens at about the same low speed as the H9 model with a slightly sharper break after it is forced to stall with the engine at idle holding up elevator. Maneuvers are fast and smooth, I have done most of the maneuver list I use at scale events.

I took it out to fly about 2 weeks ago for a single test flight. It went well for the entire flight but got left gear mount damage when it hit a dirt mound (fire ants or lawn rats) on the roll-out in the grass. It was easily repaired with spare wood parts and a new upper strut tube, no actual wing damage. After an inspection finding no issues I got a break in the weather and took it out for a second flight a week later. This time I landed on the black top runway and the final landing was very nice. I quit after this flight due to cold weather late in the day.

At 26 lbs. plus fuel it is lighter than my other Mustangs and acceleration from slow speeds is quicker. It also holds its speed better during pull-ups to vertical flight or rolls, I can pull it over at the top for the dive, the others slow to almost stall speed, then I have to do a stall turn to come down. The take off run was long on the first flight, needing up trim to fly level. After it was trimmed the next take off was much shorter. The engine is still breaking in, its previous use in my other two Mustangs was not enough to finish the break in.

My engine cooling methods were refined for this plane, it is the cleanest I have done so far. No overheating issues were encountered after a ten minute + flight with 3 touch and go landings before the nice final to a full stop. It is winter in Florida now, opportunities for flying are only a few hours per week between cold fronts. The ambient temp on the two days I got to fly it was in the low 80 degrees cooling rapidly as the sun went down. My only complaint is the spark plug and its lead sticking out to spoil its profile. I have posted pictures of the engine cooling baffles in previous posts in this thread.

I was concerned about weight build-up when applying the glass finish so I didn't go for a completely smooth surface, a little of the glass cloth weave can be seen close up. I used Rustoleum titanium silver primer-paint for the final paint job, it is shiny when applied so I rubbed the shine off with 4-aught steel wool to flatten the shine on most of the model, some panels were intentionally left shiny for a more scale like finish. I will be starting another build of this model soon to do a better job on the final finish.

I balanced the plane on the plan's indicated CG, it is completely stable in flight so I won't experiment with CG locations and will build the next one the same. I will do the cockpit and canopy when it makes it past 20 flights.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:06 PM
  #1621  
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Back to the H9 P-51D 60cc.....starting build #2. Airframe seems much better in terms of quality this time around. Did find two elevator hinges loose, but you just pull out the piano wire and reglue them...not a biggie. Working on the canopy now. Still love the lines of this model....
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Old 02-23-2019, 11:04 AM
  #1622  
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Worked more hours than I care to admit, two canopy kits (missing some parts in the kit) and slowly working through the process to install the cockpit kit and canopy (sliding) this is a little more a PITA than it needs to be but I got it finished....
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Old 02-23-2019, 11:43 AM
  #1623  
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Make sure you put in a stop to preclude the canopy from sliding out once it is in the slot, … Just in case you start it up with the canopy open. If you don't, you'll be looking for a new canopy cause the back lip breaks off when the canopy gets blown off. Re-glue all your hinges too.
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Old 02-23-2019, 12:37 PM
  #1624  
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The canopy will blow off in flight even with a stopper, It breaks the rear wood(?) crosspiece in the middle, allowing the canopy to separate from the rear slider. The canopy rises up away from the fuselage, flapping around until the slipstream tears it away.
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Old 02-23-2019, 02:43 PM
  #1625  
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I was not talking about when it is flying. I have the choke in the dash and three switches under the dash. I had a heck of a time getting the DA 60 to start and run (another story.) So, … the canopy was open when it finally fired. After it finally started, the canopy blew back beyond the normal open position and flipped up and busted the lip on the silver colored plastic. This plane was a PITA to build and get started. But it flies nice and fast with that DA60. But being overpowered, I have to limit the torque applied on take-off cause it will prematurely leap off the ground before there is enough forward speed to overcome the torque effects (i.e. Got to let it roll a while be for I let it rotate.) On landings, it will almost slow down to a fast walk. Very forgiving, unless you are too high when it finely drops. Better to come in with just a bit more speed. Flew a lot of smaller warbirds before. But this one was my first giant warbird. Lot to learn.
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