WI53072

I purchased 1.250" aluminum tubes which are about .010" smaller in diameter than the so called 32mm factory tubes and that has helped with getting the tubes in the recievers. I am using the supplied smaller aluminum tubes. The new right panel I just recieved fits perfectly.

WI53072

SJ,

I think the rear tube center section on the left side the culprit!
Front tubes both sides alignment checks. Thanks for your posts on how to check alignment.
Paul

WI53072

I would call Horizon I think you may be able to get them to get your defective parts replaced. I'm fortunate that my outter panels were causing me the bulk of my trouble. Sounds like you need all new panels and a center section too. Have you started construction on the center section yet? If not may be the time to get the parts replaced. Let us know how it turns out

Paul

pforty

Paul,
I have only installed the cockpit and before I started installing control horns and servos in the wing, I thought I'd better see if the wing panels would go together based on other comments in this thread. I did send pictures and my findings to HH last Monday, but haven't heard back. I tried calling Thursday and they said the person handling my case wasn't in. I thought I'd wait on buying new aluminum tubes until I hear back.

WI53072

By the sounds of it you may not only need new outer panels like i did but you may need a center section too. If this is the case, i would ask that they test fit the items at HH before they send them to you!

I have a call in now to them to inform them that the new outer panels corrected the right wing immediately and that the left wing needs some attention but will fit with a little fitting on the tabs and a little extra clean-up on both outer panel tube bored. snug, but 100% better than where it was previously.

Paul

pforty

HH called today and said they were going to send me a new wing. I asked if they could test fit it before sending it, but they said they couldn't.

Whether or not the new wing has issues, I think HH stepped up to send an entire wing. I will post results when it arrives.

pforty

I may have spoken too soon. I just received an email indicating HH is just sending me the outer wing panels. Different from what they said on the phone. Hopefully new wing panels will fix the issues anyway.

WI53072

Well the outter panels helped me immensely. The left wing not perfect, but muccchhh improved. The right wing panel slid right on.

im still waiting to hear back from Cody at HH and anticipate they will cover my replacement parts warranty. I couldn't imagine them not as the ones supplied me originally were not going to work. No way possible. I hope HH can get the quality issues solved with the wing and the loose fitting horizontal stab. I had to glue mine in permanently as it was way too loose.

if your alignment issue has to do at all with the front tube you are SOL. So if there is a problem pray it be the rear tube. RJ did a nice write up page 58 on how to fix this issue.

paul

sjhanc

My Feedback: (3)

I have edited my page 58 post showing my method for repairing bad tube alignment. Those of you who can't get Horizon to fix your wing problem can use this method.

WI53072

SJ,

i used your method and repaired my left rear tube on the center section. It still is a little tight but 100% better! Thanks!

By replacing both wings and fixing the rear left tube center section the wings fit. Horizon will be crediting me for the replacement wings. Thanks Cody!

pforty

I received the new outer panels last Thursday and I still couldn't get them to mate with the center section, so I took Paul's advice and ordered new 1.250" aluminum tubes. This made a big difference. Both wing panels are very snug for the last inch, but they will mate with the center section. The right panel is acceptable, but the left panel hits at the leading edge but leaves a good 3/16" gap at the trailing edge. I tried this with the main tube only and the results were the same. Also, the trailing edge of the left panel has a longer chord than the center section. I have sent this info to HH and am waiting to hear back.

sjhanc

My Feedback: (3)

pforty, remove the inner flap panel and see if the main panels now fit. If so, some work on the flap alignment tabs might solve your problem. One of my flap tabs was too long for the slot it goes into. Another flap problem was the fiberglass hinge tabs were installed incorrectly. Breaking their glue joints loose and re-gluing with the flaps properly aligned solved that issue. Be sure to rough up the surface of the fiberglass for adhesion. A rough file or 40-60 grit paper will give you the proper surface foe gluing. Also check for pieces of die cutting wood scraps on the panel mating surfaces. An aluminum tube that is too long for its socket is another fix.

pforty

sjhanc,
I tried your suggestion and removed the inboard flap, no difference as seen in the photo. I then plugged in the wing using only the rear tube, again no difference. I put a small square between the main wing tube and both the rib on the center section and the rib on the outer panel. In both cases the wing tube appears perpendicular to the ribs, so that's perplexing. I also joined the wing to the center section without any wing tubes, just the tabs for alignment and it fit OK. During all this, I noticed that the blind nut in the rear slot was drilled way off. It is in the wing further than the center section tab is long.

sjhanc

My Feedback: (3)

Each panel has an alignment rib that must be in the proper place for its mate to fit it. Put the panels together and lay a straight edge across the wing's sheeted surfaces to see if the flats are level with each other top and bottom. If they are, then there has to be an interference in the die-cut edges betreen the two alignment ribs.Check this by using some slow drying enamel paint on the edge of the alignment rib, on one side only! Press them together, then pull them apart and look for your interference. I hope you have already checked for proper tube length, a slightly longer aluminum tube will cause your problem also. If the factory had used ANY quality control in the production of these parts we wouldn't be faced with these STUPID problems. I think we should all send HORIZON a mass complaint for the poor quality parts we pay TOO MUCH money for!

In my case, I have already deprived Horizon of over $2,000 in additional sales they didn't get from me. AND, I buy my JR Radios directly from JRAmerica, now. If we all posted failing reviews of bad products their customers would dry up and they would be forced to compete with the dealers who do have quality control. If you build from kits, YOU supply the quality control. When you buy ARFS, you have to trust THEM for quality control.

They say they have no say over this issue with the manufacturer, yet they continue to buy from them. Stop buying crap and the shop will fail, be sold and the new owner can start new. This plane is an excellent design, it deserves to be out flying, showing the guys who fly other designs what a superior plane is capable of.

In my military service, I was a 67Q Aircraft Technical Inspector, (BIG pain in the A*s to everyone!) responsible for proper maintenance and repair parts installation. I had to stamp and sign my name to other Tech's work before the AC could fly. I frequently had to stand my ground in the face of angry superior officers and Maintenance sergeants who just wanted a plane approved by me so they could go home. I wanted to go home also but if a maintenance procedure that I inspected failed I would have been held directly responsible for the consequences to AC and personel. And the AC operators don't allow even a single failure.

sjhanc

My Feedback: (3)

In my earlier attemps to post advice or my solutions to common issues I was trolled constantly by user names CRG and GR7RACER. These guys were abusive to ANY post that was different in approach to a problem from THEIR exalted opinions. When I reseached these two guy's models and pictures, I could not find a single example of their own models or pictures showing their solutions to problems we all have, posted in their hangers.

I only recommend stuff I have tried and proven on my models, and I can back my stuff up with pictures of my models in the air. If you have flown in events with me you know who I am, usually leading the gaggles around.

sjhanc

My Feedback: (3)

pforty, you may have to relocate the tab in its socket. I did this a couple of times. The tabs will break loose (too easily) by wiggling them. On the bottom of the wing below the offending tab, drill a small hole through to the tab mount area. Drill several small holes in the fiberglass tab to allow glue to flow through it. Assemble the panels (with masking between the panels, thin plastic wrap) and install the (lubed) retaining bolts in their tabs. Inject Gorilla glue into the hole you drilled, enough to flow around and through the tab (I use glue syringes I get from my LHS), then tape over the glue hole to prevent getting excess on the covering. Stack the panels so that the glue won't flow away from the tab and let it cure until hard. Remove the bolts and disassemble the panels, you won't have that issue any more.

pforty

sjhanc,
I understand what you are suggesting with the tab, but the blind nut is actually in the wing (closer to the wing tip) by about 1/2". When looking into the wing sheeting hole, I can see a pilot hole where the nut should be. The nut is actually further into the wing and underneath the sheeting to where I would have to cut another hole in the sheeting in order to get a bolt installed. Then breaking the tab loose, it would have to come out another 1/2" before re-gluing. Is that tab long enough to come out 1/2"? Or would I have to make my own tab?

sjhanc

My Feedback: (3)

I looked at the wing parts I have left from my #1 plane to see what you are talking about. I don't think moving the blind nut's mount tab is possible without cutting through the top skin of the tip panel for access. I will cut into the damaged tip panel I have on hand to see what is possible to do. I'll get back to you in a little while.

sjhanc

My Feedback: (3)

Ok I cut into it to take some pics. It is the same front and rear, top and bottom. If you are inclined to do surgery, cutting through the bottom skin 1/2 inch either side of the hole and 1/2 inch beyond the second rib, remove the piece of skin, then cut the second rib just below the tab's slot, you can easily separate the piece of rib from the tab.

The tab with its blind nut is easily pulled out leaving the root rib intact (don't cut through the root rib as I have done) repair or make a new tab (if possible, just turn the tab around to the correct orientation), mask the panels, assemble them, and rebuild the tab by bolting it to the center panel tab, then glue it all back together, be sure to mask the tab so the panel can be removed after gluing. Reinforce the cutout second rib's piece. The alternative is to drill a new hole in the existing tab, then tap it for your bolt, or, install a new blind nut underneath. It will be tricky to get a blind nut in there unless you open a hatch in the top skin also.

The tabs are built up from three separate pieces of die cut ply, the blind nut is inserted in the middle and it is all glued together, then into the wing. In your case, the factory BOZO glued your tab in backwards, moving the hole to the outboard position, making it useless.

pforty

sjhanc,
Thanks for going the extra mile and cutting into your old wing. I agree with you, they installed the block in my wing backwards. The block in question has both the blind nut installed and a smaller hole directly under the hole in the wing sheeting where the blind nut should be. Since the new replacement wing panel has more issues than the old original panel, I went back to work on it. I finally got the old panel to fit much better, but I have to leave out the rear spar. If I only use the rear spar, I'm back to the leading edge touching with a 3/16" gap at the trailing edge. I'm now thinking it would be easier to follow your fix for the rear wing tube in the center section and use the old panel. It's hard to believe this has been an issue for the past two years and it's still not corrected.

I'm still waiting to hear from HH.

sjhanc

My Feedback: (3)

You guys who are using different brand wing tubes need to make sure the aluminum is aircraft quality. The cheap stuff looks ok, but there is a difference in the fatigue life. Cheap aluminum is at its strongest when new, and will get weak fast when stressed by engine vibration and slipstream forces. The extruded aircraft aluminum slowly gets stronger over its fatigue life. I don't think we could ever use it long enough to reach its life cycle limit.

Full scale aluminum parts are over-stressed by the manufacturer to establish safe flight hour usage limits, then they must be replaced and taken out of service. Even if they look good they can't be re-used in the same application. For instance, turbine helicopter rotor blades are retired at an arbitrary flight hour limit (or if rpm limits are exceeded), but they find their way into the homebuilt ultra light rotorcraft market where they are not highly stressed.

Len Todd

oWell I finally got mine out of the back of the hanger. The DA 60 fired right up in a couple flips. Not bad for a never before run engine.

Spent a couple hours trying to get it to run correctly though. Went thru the correct process for setting the needles but there either is a flat spot on acceleration or it runs too rich at midrange. If you roll the throttle up slowly the flat spot is not there. Other than that, it does run well though. Maybe after a few flights it will break in and not exhibit this flat spot.

Had a surprise when I tipped the nose down to look at the tailwheel. Fuel pours right out of the carb. ?? If the plane sits and you plug the vent and put a little pressure on the system, fuel runs out of the carb. Not sure about what to do with that. Maybe push it back in the hanger and forget about it. I may have to pull the engine and clean the carb and set the spring setting correctly. Seems like DA should have done this. It never had fuel in it until today. ???

Those damn DAs do not have a CDI outlet for RPM. Spent 4 hours today trying to get an optical sensor consistently working on it, to no avail. DLEs provide an RPM output that an optical coupler plugs right into and plugs into the TM-1000. Strange that DA can't even match what DLE does or do even better, for the price we pay for them.

This was my first and most-likely my last DA. If I have to take the engine out to fix their carb, I may just put in one of my DLEs and be done with DA's peculiarities.

WI53072

I purchased my replacement tubes from speedy metal an area distributor. It is a has a bit thicker wall and is hard Alum. You can also order it from Ohio RC products

Here is a pic of my surgery and patch of the rear left tube center section. Snug, but not bad 100% better.

Len Todd

Found the gas leak. Pressure tested the fuel system. Could not hold one PSIG. Took out engine and cleaned carb. The carb had a significant amount of aluminum cuttings in the internal filter and apparently under the needle jet. That engine never had fuel put in it before. ??? After cleaning, I found the needle Jet was set to pop at 22 psig and reset at 11 psig. I left the arm alone and put things back together. Pressure tested the fuel system again and it holds 4+ psig. As soon as it quits raining, I'll give it another whirl.

Still froggin' around with RPM Sensor. They don't make the sensor that I have any more. If I replace it, probably means a lot more froggin' around to get it working with the TM-1000

I also put on the wings just to check them, and they slid right on w/o any gaps or sticky tubes, etc. I guess I was lucky. Back when I built this 16 months ago, a little sanding on the wing tubes and in the tube receivers and they slid right together.

After a little final tuning, time to make it fly.

grumman-cats

Well I finally tried to fit the wings together with the tubes in hopes that I would be the fortunate one to get an aircraft that actually assembles. Lets just say that I was disappointed again with Hanger 9 products. They would not go together so I installed a short tube in the middle section and one in the wing tip just to see how far off they were from each other. I'm not happy. so the next ? is why do they even have the rear tube in this wing. The main spar takes the brunt of everything. if this is truly just for alignment then does it have to be as long as it is? has anyone chose not to use the small tube or have changed to a different alignment method?