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Ziroli 1/7 (120") B-25 B scale build

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Ziroli 1/7 (120") B-25 B scale build

Old 06-11-2014, 09:53 PM
  #26  
rossmick
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Default Center wing



Here is the dry layup for the center section. Found enough bad dimensions and missed slots to keep me on my toes. As you can see I use magnets who's design came from a fellow modeler who posted them on the web. My hat is off to him as I built them from his design and use the daylights out of them. Wing cardboard tube OD was 1 3/8 " and I had a Fostner bit that size, unfortunately the fit was too snug so I used the spindle sander to enlarge them just slightly. All is clamped in place and the holes lined up correctly to insert the tube. I will tear down the build and drill in the other holes. I have searched everywhere for 1/2" cardboard tubes and can not locate them so I will, as you say, roll my own. Here are some shots of the build so far
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:57 PM
  #27  
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Default Center wing continued



Here are some images of the glue up stage of the center wing. I am using Aeropoxy as I spent some time collecting data on the strength of various glues and decided on its use for this center section. As per Sam's suggestion I am gluing up the center wing components with epoxy (Aeropoxy) but will use Titebond III to attach the skin when I get to it. I see little use for the epoxy on the skin as the Titebond absorbs deeper in balsa and, is the case with most wood glues, the glue joint is stronger than the wood. However, I would use epoxy if I had a plywood to plywood connection.

I have found that I can reuse the Aeropoxy nozzles by blowing the epoxy out on to wax paper with my air compressor and then cleaning them with Acetone and then blowing them dry with the compressor. I try and leave a small area to glue with the left over material on the wax paper. Although more expensive, I find Aeropoxy to be easier to use such as by using your finger to create a nice corner fillet and it does not gum up your hand like regular epoxy does. Additionally, it is best to wait until the end of the day and then do all your gluing at once as the setup time is recommended to be 24 hours. I find the glue is hard to the touch in about three hours but I leave it over night to be sure I have a good bond.

I used a square to position the ribs, but also measured from the center line of W1 out each side to make sure I was an equal distance for each rib. Yes there was a difference and sometime more than I would have thought. I believe that the wing is square and true. My supplies from PCM came up missing the triangle pieces so it was a 50 mile round trip to get them from the hobby shop. However, it was a good excuse to pickup many of the additional hardware items I needed for the wing. I also used a spruce spare for the bottom slot just in front of the triangle, this wing should be very strong.

I also used Sam's recommendation on extending the cardboard tube through W4, I had the tube length so I just drilled and sanded out an additional hole. Also the plywood leading edge looked like a great idea so I replaced the balsa ones with plywood. The PCM kit came with a 1/4" W1 but I had some 1/2" stock so I used it and recut W1, again something I noticed on Sam's build.

When I first saw the plan I wonder about the thickness of the N1 and N1s stock so when Sam said he was going with 1/2" I thought it sounded much better. On N1 and N1s I intend to drill through, and besides gluing them to the box, I will have two bolts and nylock nuts per piece. You might be able to make out the lines on the pieces where the bolts will go through to the box, small cutouts will be cut in the outside curve to allow the bolt and washer to set flat. I believe that this will kill any chance of vibration shaking these parts loose.

I bought 24 ounce fuel tanks, but if someone suggests a larger tank I will use that suggestion, never have used DA 50s I just guessed on the size based on the fuel used by my smaller gas engines. I also picked up the mid size Hi Tech 81 servos for the throttles and the chokes and will get them mounted before I skin.

I finally found the small cardboard tubes and they are rocket body tubes, I checked prices and the hobby shop was less expensive than ordering them due to shipping. The 1/2" size is D5 and the only small problem is that they are only 18" long so for long runs they will have to be spliced together.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:13 PM
  #28  
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Default Outer wings



Here are a few shots of the outer wing panels being built with the connection to the center section and initial alignment. I extended the wing tube through W12 and added a ply doubler to give additional strength. In the fighter squadron we had a saying that went 'its better to be lucky than good' and when I put the outboard wings on the center section I was astonished as to how well they came together - better lucky than good. I had visions of wide gaps, however that is not how it came out. The connections fit pretty well, but wait - I have to align the wing.

I decided that the concrete floor here in Arizona was not a suitable level device no matter how you spun things around, and besides I get to use my self leveling rotating laser. The laser is calibrated to less than 1/16" at 50', so it should provide the accuracy I am looking for. As the work bench is movable, on casters, it was far easier to level the wing than the work surface. With that accomplished, I turned on the laser and had a perfect level datum plane to work from. As the plan shows a 1/4" negative dihedral, I can see that I will have some adjusting to do on the tube connections to bring the left wing up 3/4" and the right wing up 1". Also the right wing must be adjusted back 1/4" to align the main spar, left wing is right on the money. I could rotate the laser for that alignment as well but I think my 8' straight alum. channel will get the job done.

So I will do the adjustments and then cut and join all the required items to get a perfect fit of W8 to W9 at the center section, anyway that is the plan for tomorrow. This is a big wing and with the laser I can check all leading and trailing points from side to side at each rib to make sure I have no twist, warping or difference. This might seem like over kill but a straight and true wing sure makes for a much better flying machine on that first flight. My goal is to have little or no trim adjusting required on that first flight - yaw right, I know. I will recheck the wing once more after I get the top sheeting put on per Sam's suggestion, hopefully, I will have little adjusting to do.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:33 PM
  #29  
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Default Nacelle



Photo 1 is of the layout of the gear door location as best as I can determine it at this time.
Rails are 3/4" X 1" oak, and locating them for the Sierra gear was a real exercise as the photos show. There will be more structure on the right rail and I agree with you that there needs to be more structure between the formers on the left side.

Next post will show the modified gear in location as these photos were taken before the gear was modified.

One interesting point on the main gear doors is that the inboard door is larger, width wise, than the outboard door. Couple this with the follower door goes past the center line on its width, it makes for some heavy duty design and testing. Additionally, the nacelle diameter is wrong for the size of the cowl, and needs to be slightly increased to make it look right. The correct size for the cowl should be 8 " OD rather than the 9 1/8 " OD, so nacelle has to be enlarged. Not to criticize the plan but cowl is not scale, however, I am sure there was some really good reason for this, probably engine size. I have most of the new formers laid out and dry fitted, however (3 doors all different sizes, interesting).
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:28 AM
  #30  
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Default Nacelle continued



Photos 1- 2 just show top covering on center and outboard wings, need sanding but should keep the warping to a minimum.

Photos 3-4 Went with 1/2" ply. firewall mounts, plus used Aeropoxy and bolts to secure to frame. I have seen too many firewalls come loose, I don't believe these will.

Photos 5 -7 A foam temporary insert in cowl so it can be mounted for measurements. Firewalls mounted and cowl fit to center.

Photos 8 - 14 This is the dry layup of the scale gear doors for the B-25. I increased the diameter of the nacelle by 1/2" to better match the cowl. If you look you can see an extra support plate on the outboard side between the two nacelle formers. All side formers were increase 1/4" in width and aligned for a 'straight down the side look' as per scale. Extra side formers are required for the door arrangement. Nacelle is already too high top of wing to bottom of nacelle so I left that dimension as per plan. Nacelle is also 1/2" - 3/4" too short so I will be looking to move back about 1/4". There are two new formers on the front, one to hold stringers and another to cover. This will push the firewall forward 1/4" which again is more to scale. As Sam points out this helps with CG as the engines are moved forward. He moves forward an inch so this 1/4" should work well.
Inboard gear door is wider than the outboard door and follower door goes pass the center line and follows the strut while hinged on the inboard side.
Scale measurements were made from three different scale drawings that I have and then compared to see if dimensions were the same or similar, this was done to eliminate an oddly drawn supposedly scale drawing. All measurements were very close to the same so I am confident that the scale size for the different doors is correct.

More measuring and fitting will be required to get all stringers straight and in correct position for the doors, Note that stringers on and along the doors are in spruce. Putting the skin on looks to be interesting and I will use Sam's technique of cutting the doors out of the applied skin. I will try and use pins stuck through the skin to identify the corners and lines to get the cut lines correct.

Also you will notice that the gear has been moved back to keep the wheel axle at the correct location as per the plan.
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Last edited by rossmick; 06-14-2014 at 09:14 AM.
Old 06-12-2014, 02:10 PM
  #31  
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Wow. Great job. Your really moving along
Old 06-12-2014, 07:02 PM
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Lovescale
---------------

I started this build in Jan 2014 and posted most of this on Sam Parfitt's thread. The last post on the nacelles is the first new post and has this thread current with my build minus some shots of the fuselage which I will get on in the next several days.

The nacelle work will certainly take several more days if not a week as I really want to get out and do some flying. This weekend is not looking too great for flying because of the winds, we will wait and see. Going out to fly at TRCC tomorrow at 0700 before it gets too hot.

Tevans55
-------------

Ordered the Jet Tronics air B-valve from Dreamworks today for the air brakes. Horst, from Jet Tronics, suggested the B-valve as it is totally proportional, It is a little pricey but specks look great and I look forward to receiving it. Thanks for the suggestion, and are you using the B-valve or another product?
Also ordered the TBM 20x12 adjustable 3 bladed props and need to get the cockpits ordered one of these days.

Last edited by rossmick; 06-13-2014 at 10:41 AM.
Old 06-24-2014, 08:20 PM
  #33  
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Default Nacelle continue



Well it was way past due, and it is kind of like the rule in our college apartment which was 'when it get knee deep it was time to clean it up'. Now this applies to the workshop and it took all day, and then some, to get it cleaned up and back to some organization. Additionally, I finally got around to building the shop vac. manifold to hook up all the sanders and saws. The idea was to move the intake hose from one machine to the other - well you know how that went and there was sawdust everywhere and getting deeper by the day. Took another day, and two trips to Ace to get the PVC fittings and valves for all the different size hoses off the various machines. It wouldn't win a beauty contest, but it works fine. I have a remote that turns on the collector so it makes it easier to remember to turn it on as I go to the sanders or band saw/scroll saw. No excuse now not to get back to the B-25.

The nacelles - tedious is an understatement. Doing the stringers on the first nacelle boarders on painful, however, slowly but surely, it is coming together. It takes many clamps to hold the ends of the stringers, so you have wait for the glue to set before moving on to the next. The other nacelle should go much faster as I at least have good measurements to use to cut the slots.

Received the TBM Props and the proportional brake control and it maybe some time before I get to actually install them. Props look great, but the diameter of the shank that goes through the hub on some of the blades will have to sanded to make them fit. I got the drill guide from DA but I am not quite sure how to use it on the hub. I did watch the video but could use some advice.
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Last edited by rossmick; 06-25-2014 at 11:30 AM.
Old 06-25-2014, 08:05 PM
  #34  
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Ross-
Sorry for the late reply...I am using the B-valve. It is as close to the look of a scale brake system as I have used. Much better than the older valves I have used. I like having a brake system that won't lock up and cause skidding. Really enjoying your build. Very nice work!

Tim
Old 06-26-2014, 02:45 PM
  #35  
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Tevans55

Any surprises with the valve? How did you mount it, and I assume that you teed off to each individual brake. How did you attach the brake line to the struct. ( a million questions). I plan to mount the valve in the fuselage as they say you need plenty of line out to each gear as per instructions. What would be the shortest length on those lines?
Old 06-26-2014, 07:39 PM
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It's been 3 years since I installed mine...let's see, I mounted mine sitting on a cushion of red Permatex for shock protection. I also made both lines teed the same length although I don't think length mattered. I also used a very large Robart can as I did not know how fast this valve would use air since it is always cycling when applied, (sort of like anti-lock brakes in your car). You don't need any special tubing...any air line is fine. The main reason I used a large air can is because I wanted to run the engines up and then release the brakes...think Doolittle Raider on Hornet deck. Pretty cool to watch the nose gear compress and then release. I used a good brass T in the air line and did not make any other cuts in the lines. I hooked everything up before installation just to teach myself how everything worked. I wanted to make sure I would know what to do if anything needed repair. I have had no issues with the brakes. Hope this helps.

Tim

Last edited by tevans55; 06-26-2014 at 07:45 PM.
Old 06-27-2014, 06:58 AM
  #37  
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Tim

Thanks, great info. I had thought to use the small tank as it would only be for the brakes, but now I will take your suggestion and use the large one. I think I got 3 or 4 of the large tanks as they came with the gear from Sierra. I, as well, wanted to do the run up and takeoff in a simulated scale length for the carrier, sounds like fun. As I understand it the controller leaks the air out in short bursts when you apply the brakes, is that correct?
Old 07-09-2014, 09:48 PM
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Default Nacelle, stab, elev, vertical fin, rudder



Nacelle stringers completed except for lowest stringers on left nacelle.
Stab assembled with magnet board method, used straight edge on TE spar to keep it aligned. I have not glued in the rib next to vertical fin to figure out best attachment method and structure to hide the rudder push rod as in the full size B-25. I have extended the spruce spars through the fin for extra support. I also used spruce on the leading edge for extra strength on the stab. Sheeted the top with 1/16 as per plan.
Leading edges on elev. and rudder laid up with extra material around the hinge tube.
Used internal 1/16 aviation ply for elevator and rudder as structure via the plan looked pretty flimsy for cloth covering. This took more time and layout but will produce a much stronger and straighter structure. I did weigh the ply after lighting holes were done and it came to 4.9 oz. so there should not be too much additional weight in the tail section. Also the ply should provide for a great TE. Note that the elevator was corrected to scale and the biggest issue was the angle off the rudder.
Vertical fin prove to be a little harder to build than I first guessed, but with the magnet squares, small square on the ribs, and clamps, all went together straight and true.
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Last edited by rossmick; 07-10-2014 at 03:33 PM.
Old 07-13-2014, 10:13 PM
  #39  
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Default Stab, elev, vertical fin, rudder continued



Finished rudders with trim tab and outside items. Sanded them to shape with vertical belt sander and cleaned up by hand.
Completed vertical fins and sheeted one side, will sand balsa end blocks when rudder is joined.
Found, after the fact, that the rear spar on the fin was laser cut 1/8" short in length. I had already glued on the balsa blocks before I realized the error and now it looks like the rudder top will have to be reduced to match the fin. Just shows you have to check EVERY detail before you glue things up. I have to wonder why the spar was cut undersize.

Elevators finished with trim tab and outside items. Sanded them to shape and cleaned up by hand. Much more work here for internal control rods connected to servos located in fuselage below stab. Working out details on controls for rudder and elevator as I do not want control rods or servo arms to show.

Actually set stab and fin on fuselage and I am really beginning to see just how large the model is.

I am happy with the internal web design of both the rudder and elevator as they are very strong and straight. This method took at least 8 to 10 additional hours but I feel it was time well spent.

To be scale the ailerons must also be fabric covered like the rudder and elevators and I am looking at the internal web design for them as well. Initial look at the aileron design shows it maybe difficult to use the internal web method, however I do want the ailerons fabric covered. This ought to be interesting.
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Last edited by rossmick; 07-13-2014 at 10:35 PM.
Old 07-19-2014, 12:37 PM
  #40  
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Does anyone have the exact specifications on the lighting for the B-25 B model. I would like color and location, also I am not sure if the B had a rotating beacon.

Thanks in advance.
Old 07-19-2014, 06:02 PM
  #41  
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Hi Ross-
Gen. Doolittle would have been proud of this build! Sorry again for the late reply...yes the brake valve you have works like an anti-lock brake and releases air during the braking process. The more you apply the brake the less the air is released.

As I have built 2 Doolittle replicas (neither as nice as yours) I have studied the raid and the planes a lot over the past five years. As far as I have been able to determine the B model had navigation lights on the top and bottom of each wing tip panel. Other than the landing lights there were three blue position/identification lights located in the top center of the fuselage between the top turret and the leading edge of the stab. Much later beginning with the B-25G the wing nav lights were replaced with a single light on the edge of the wing tip. I believe from photos that there were lights on the outside of each vertical stab but I don't know if that is part of the B version or not. Three identification lights first appeared under the right wing tip on the B-25C and B-25D and they remained a standard feature for all subsequent variants. I have seen quotes in several publications that the B-25 was the most field modified plane used in WWII. To that end there may have been some lighting variations but as far as I have been able to find these were the only lights on the 120 B-25B models. Hope this helps.

Tim

Last edited by tevans55; 07-19-2014 at 06:11 PM.
Old 07-20-2014, 06:49 PM
  #42  
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Glad to see you moving along.
SAMs tips are good too.

My son lost his 120" B25 yesterday. Too bad. We think a fuel line popped off the right motor right over the field. I got part of it on my iPad video but I heard my son call out just as I heard the difference in sound. I stopped the video and watched the short rest of the flight. It went into a right hand death spiral from about 350 feet. It hit essentially straight in, in a corn field. Everybody had an opinion where it went down as it was about 1/2 mile away. Since I used to train tracking dogs i used the saying you have to know the track to train the dog. I walked almost right to it. Big mess.

Here are a couple "for what it is worth tips".
if you come out at 50# or so it will not fly like a Corsair. It will push hard in the turns. You may find using a bit of rudder helpfull. With big motors it will fly very fast. I can't guess speed but it was every bit as fast as the fighters.
We used 20-10 bolly and Menz props. 6800-7000 rpm on the ground.
we tuned the motors using matchboxes and inboard tachs in the turret. Both motors came up within 100-150 rpm from idle to max. They also would come down the same way. No engine sync. We tried them all. We had about 45# thrust available.
brakes on the mains.
very soft nose spring. This keeps the nose from bouncing on landing and takeoff. It took about 2# to push the mains down at rest so they we pretty soft too.
As a shoulder wing plane it pitched up with the flaps. Some guys use about 10% mix of down elevator. I would lobby for a Guardian from Eagle Tree

What did we learn and see from this crash? Every connector MUST have Parson locks, We probably have $75.00 worth of them, not one came off. All fuel line MUST have wire wraps on them. The one that did not, came off.
i would suggest that if you have not skinned the wing and elevator, you lay a piece of carbon fiber on top of each spar. Ours had CF on both sides. The elevator and rudders survived intact. Also I wrapped 1/4" wide CF strips around the fuselage from the top of the elevator to the leading edge of the wing opening in the fuse. 4strips total. The entire back of the fuse survived intact. I also made an internal support to make up for the side gun cut out. Again CF laminated.

All trailing edges had FG tape between the top and bottom skins. All flat hinges were giant scale with removable pins or wires then the hinged were drilled and double pinned with tooth pick material. No hinges pulled, some were torn in half with the halfs remaining in position.

None of the expensive nose and cockpit detail survived. It was too deep in the ground so we just kicked dirt over it.
3/8 AC ply fire walls survived.

i would question paper wing tubes. If you use tubes I would at least use aluminum one and consider CF. be sure to build strength all around the mounting system. I completely redesigned the wing mounting using CAD and FEA. The entire mounting on the outer panels 3 ribs and inboard of the nacelles was ripped out almost as a unit so it was stronger than the wing sections. The mains were attached to this and more or less came out with it. All 3 gear lower links broke. They were retracted so it appears that the impact caused the gear wheels to slam forward then snapped back breaking the links. Otherwise they are ok. Still attached to the bulkheads, simply tore then right out bulkhead and all.

all the radio was packed in foam as were the Lithium batteries. All were hooked up and functioning after the crash.

In the previous flights we had no real airframe problem. We did lose a main gear door the first flight. It was a project to replace it so plan the gear doors carefully and hinge them solidly.. We had 8 gear doors. The nose doors vaporized but the mains were still usable.
i built a scale functional exhaust and it survived.

Anyway don't build to crash but do consider these areas.

we are going to use the remains for airsoft target practice. There is not much left to take useful pictures of.

Every crash has a story so if I can help prevent a crash I'll try. I've been accused of being "windy" so I'll try and stay in the background.

good luck.

Last edited by bentwings; 07-20-2014 at 06:54 PM.
Old 07-20-2014, 10:55 PM
  #43  
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Tevans55
--------------
Thanks for the kind words on the build. I appreciate the info on the lighting. I hope to find some real engr. drawings of the B model, maybe wishful thinking, but I will try and supplement your information.

Bentwings
---------------

You never have to worry about giving too much information as I will take all I can get. I have followed you on the TF 60" Corsair build that has been running for years and I have always found your replies very helpful.

Great info on building techniques, and I will incorporate as much of them as I can. I will put the photos of my version of the tail section on tomorrow. I think most will find it interesting as the tail is removable to get to the embedded servos and hidden linkage for elevators and rudders.

Great analysis of the crash, it is really too bad that the plane was lost. Single engine operation is really difficult to deal with. Makes me think that there was not enough rudder available to offset the adverse yaw. I flew the F4 in the USAF and the MD80 for TWA and American, and even with both engines almost centerline when one quit you needed plenty of rudder to keep it straight especially with the F4 in full afterburner. I see that the plane rolled in to the dead engine and once you get that roll started it is almost impossible to stop it. I got the latest version of Real Flight (7.2) just because it did have the B25 on it and I set it up to give unannounced engine failure. Although not perfect, the simulator does give me some good practice and recognition of what happens on loss of an engine. One of my RC club members lost his 80" B25 to a broken throttle linkage where one engine went full throttle and he turned in to the slower engine and again it just started rolling and he could not stop it. (Number one rule - Maintain aircraft control by never turning in to the dead engine and get the power back on the good engine)

I am really interested in the scale exhaust you built, if you could provide more info on that I would really appreciate it - maybe as many photos as you can spare.

Thanks again.
Old 07-21-2014, 04:42 AM
  #44  
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Here is one of the few shots I took with my iPad of the b25 exhaust.
this picture up load has changed since I last used it, hope it works.
The exhaust system was built using copper fittings. Sounds heavy but I carefully trimmed over 60% of the weight off each fitting. The whole system is TIG welded with exception of the flange which is TIG braved with silicone bronze. It actually is very light considering the material.

there is also tuning effects built in. This is the reason for the large loop on the left side. We explored this extensively during the design and build. This is the third and final generation. We had no problems with this system vibrating loose. It probably had 10-15 hours of full throttle run with nothing coming loose.

it survived the crash.

Between you and me Ziroli said not to reduce throttle on engine out. Fly it away. Personally I strongly disagree, and my son and I have had numerous heated arguments about this. I flew model twins back in the 70's when twins were not cool. I had many engine out and the only plane I lost was an AeroCommander. Had I chopped the throttle and left it ther it would have lived another day too. In the bomber case he tried to fly and turn away from the dead motor but it was a downwind turn so airspeed dropped faster than the plane could keep up. Chop the throttle, nose down, get control and land straight ahead is the rule I use. It's better to take some rash than lose the plane.

we also have Flight sim and I have tried this with the B25. While not perfect you can at least sim getting control.
Stepping off the soap box. Haha

Byron Nelson
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:34 PM
  #45  
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Bentwings

Thanks for the photo. Wow that took a lot of design, testing and work, that is outstanding. I'll see what I can do with this concept.

The problem with a single engine is that it pulls the wing forward of the wing on the dead engine, therefore, the adverse yaw. The wing going forward creates the roll to the dead engine. Even the most high wing loaded airplane is designed to fly, so pulling the power to get back to a stable flight condition, one would think, would be appropriate - maintain aircraft control then recover, as you suggested. I can tell you from personal experience that getting the power back is critical. Getting the airplane back from an uncontrolled condition to a controlled one is the answer, then bring the power back up with the appropriate amount of matching rudder and now you are flying the airplane, not the airplane flying you.

Last edited by rossmick; 07-21-2014 at 08:36 PM.
Old 07-26-2014, 03:33 PM
  #46  
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Default Elevator Rudder continued



It is my decision to mount all servos in the stab, this requires that the whole stab be removable to get to the servos and linkage for maintenance and or repairs/adjustment. Photo 1 shows the ply plates and hold down member for the front plate. This hold down hooks under the front spruce LE as well as under the spruce main spar so as to ensure that the front hold down plate does not come loose. Photo 2 just shows the location for the hold down plates. I decided not to shape the LE of the elevator right now so it could be clamped to the stab for marking, cutting and gluing. Used square on the band saw to keep cuts for the tabs nice, clean and square. I used a 1/8" CF rod for the hinge as it fits perfectly in the Nyrod tube and the weight is way down over metal. The lite ply hinge points were recut from 1/8" aviation ply and drilled out for the CF rod, they were also extended for additional gluing area to the stab rib. By keeping the elevator so it can be clamped I could then run the CF rod through the entire tail section to ensure all the hinge areas are perfectly aligned when they are glued up - this system has appeared to work very well.

Rudder linkage runs through the stab and out the back and will be covered at the exit point as per scale. Each of the servos applies 90 # of torque so should be plenty for each rudder. I did reposition the Nyrod once the servos were in place, however, it appears that the servos may need to be moved back about 1/16" to give some additional clearance for the linkage.

Once the elevator tabs were glued to the stab with the CF rod in place the elevator the elevators were cut and the Nyrod tube removed to install the elevator metal linkage rod. This spring steel rod was bent and threads created with a die to match the nylon adjustable linkage. Cutting in the threads was much more of a task than I anticipated as the rod was slightly large in diameter for the die. Once completed the nylon linkage treaded on just fine. The rod will be sandwiched between 1/8" ply which will use blind nuts to hold rod to the elevator. It appears I will need to cut a small amount of elevator away and re-bend the rod to allow for some additional spacing for the nylon linkage. The rod area will be covered, and screwed in, using 1/16" ply so that the elevator could be removed if required. The 1/16" ply cover plate will have the 1/4" filler glued to it to fill in the area cut out for the rod in the LE of the elevator. Note, that the elevator servos require a reverser Y connection, where the rudder servos do not. I then sanded the elevator LE to shape and obtained the necessary clearance for the degree of elevator rotation as per plan.

Away in the 5th wheel for a family wedding and should be able to get back to building on Thur. or Friday of this next week.
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Last edited by rossmick; 07-26-2014 at 09:53 PM.
Old 08-05-2014, 10:07 PM
  #47  
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Default Stab,Elev, vert. fin and rudder



The more I looked at the rear hold down/servo plate the less I felt secure about it pulling loose just counting on the glue to hold it in. I went to plan B and cut out the old test plate and redesigned a new plate that hooks under the spar at the front and is held down by an alum. angle bolted to the TE spare. Also there is a screw that indexes the plate and also holds the rear of the plate down.
The plate has some grommets that insulate the wires from the servos as they come through the plate which should reduce the vibration and chaffing of the servo leads.

I decided on G10 for the hinges of the elevator control rods and cut them long and slanted at the top to help support the outer skin behind the stab. Note there will be a cut in the skin at the end of the hinges so the tail assembly can be removed. An extra small former will be made on the fuselage to match the removable section on the stab.

The linkage provides for more movement on the elevators than the 1" required on the plans. Not that I think I need it, but more is better than less.

Still to go are the guides for the servo push rods to eliminate any rotation of the extension arm on the control rod where it is threaded on. Additionally, the 1/32 ply cover plate will have to cover the area on the bottom of the elevators where the control rod is bolted in. If I wish to remove an elevator for repair or maintenance I have to release the control rod from the elevator.

A replacement rib on each side will be put back in where the original rib was removed when the old plate was taken outl. Also a new rib for the stab will be installed on each side to allow for the skin to come in just past the fuselage sides and still supply support for the end position.

Still looking for exact documentation on the lighting on the B-25B. I see the white light in the vertical fin, but don't have much info on the location of the lights in the wings. I believe that instead of being on the tip they are located top and bottom some distance in from the wing tip. Any scale drawings showing their exact location would be appreciated.
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Last edited by rossmick; 08-09-2014 at 06:59 PM.
Old 08-22-2014, 10:29 PM
  #48  
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Default Stab, vertical fin



I did not care for the attachment between the stab and the vertical fin. I had extended the main spar and to that I added two extended blocks attached to the spar and the TE as well as the thickened tip rib. I then added a stiffener on the top of the upper rib and another under the lower rib. These ribs span the extended blocks and with a small shim the fin fits very snug to the stab. All the attachment photos except the last two show the vertical fin mounted upside down. Funny when you are working so close you don't see it until later. Lucky I did not glue them up !!

I also added a hard wood block to the bottom the rudder and then tapped in a set screw from the inboard side that holds the rudder hinge pin in place but allows it to be removed if you want to take off the rudder for repair and painting.

After spending more than a week getting the location of the outboard light in the fin, I was able to install the conduit for the electrical wire for the lights. I used the larger tubes as the smaller was a tight fit and I wanted some slack so as to move the wire through with more ease. The 90 degree bend at the tip and up in to the fin will keep the wire from being moved very much so I gave myself plenty of extra.

I decided on strip LED lights, but figuring out how to mount them took several attempts. I came up with a ply spacer plate and then a ply ribbon holding strip under the spacer, this gives the clearance needed to the LED as it sticks up 1/16. The spacer plate also will server as the area where the screws for the lens frame will attach. I want the lights to be removable in case there is a failure and with three LEDs on a strip I will be able to just move the strip around to get to the other LED.
Fins are dry fit at the moment and as soon as I determine the correct position for the fin I will glue them in. Last two photos show fins mounted correctly.
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Last edited by rossmick; 08-24-2014 at 04:54 PM.
Old 09-18-2014, 01:24 PM
  #49  
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Default Continuation elevator, rudder, stab



Back to working on the B-25 after a visit from my son and his wife from Portsmouth England. As she had never seen the Grand Canyon, Flagstaff, and other northern towns in Arizona we picked them up from the Phoenix airport in our 5th wheel and off we went for 10 days. It was a great trip, even though it was our third time to the Canyon, I never tire of seeing it. As I was a pilot for American Airlines I was able to get them first class standby seats and they really enjoyed that method of travel, now they only want to travel that way. Looks like very soon we will have to plan travel to England.


Getting back to the build has been slow as much had to be caught up on because of the trip, but here is a start - slow but sort of sure.


First several photos show the attachment of the tail section to the fuselage. I am waiting on the hex nylon 4" bolts to arrive to position the bottom plate under the modified saddle to hold the bolts.


Next two photos show the cover plate for the removable control rod for the elevator. I need to set 3 or 4 small screws to hold the plate and LE spar cover in place.


Next three photos show the assembly with the control horns in the rudders and the attachment to the servos. I need to Hysol the Nyrod to the LE and ribs, but the system appears to work very well. Once the Nyrod is stabilized the rudder action will be even better. I have almost the travel of the full size B-25 on the rudders, which is what I wanted to accomplish. According to the documentation the B-25 flew quite well on one engine because of the rudder size and travel. I am hopeful that the scale model handles the same way with an engine out. What I have read of other pilots is that they say the plane is easy to fly engine out and the more rudder the better.


Vertical fin is not glued in as I like Sam's suggestion to glass and then attach the fin. Even now the attachment is firm, but I can see some real time spent in making sure that the fins are straight and plumb once the gluing starts.


Last photo shows my design for the stab removable extension that covers the linkage and control horn. The full size extension of the stab actually penetrates the rudder on the inboard side so some interesting modifications to the rudder have to be done. I should get some time today to start the extensions, but if not, I will try tomorrow after getting back from having the truck at the dealership.
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Last edited by rossmick; 09-18-2014 at 01:29 PM.
Old 09-19-2014, 06:07 AM
  #50  
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Ross I am really enjoying this build. I need to get the name of the book that I think is the definitive work on the entire Doolittle raid. The fellow that wrote it has collected and continues to collect information from the participants and their families.
Tim

Update:

The book is Destination Tokyo by Stan Cohen

Last edited by tevans55; 09-19-2014 at 05:39 PM.

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