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125% (1/4 scale) Anderson TA-152H

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Old 08-03-2014, 09:38 PM
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Default 125% (1/4 scale) Anderson TA-152H

Since the pancakes are getting closer to being done and the F-14 needs a bunch of CAD time and Money to finish it, i started planning the next project back in may.. I'm a FW-190 nut, so why not do the Premier 190 in the form of the TA-152H and then take a known performer in scale competition and good flyer and make it (better?) bigger by blowing it up 125%! It didn't help either than Evan twisted my arm a bit when he found out my evil plans and offered to buy two...

First up was getting the anderson plans and enlarging them 125%. This gives an airplane with the following dimensions:

142.5" wingspan
107.5" Long

Maybe 125% is a bit to big? NEVER! plus its a three piece wing, so it makes it doable






I also took a few nights to draw up a VERY detailed set of CNC machined main landing gear struts for the TA-152 as the Sierra gear just wouldn't look right IMO on this thing. Price wise, they will be within $100-200 of the Sierra gear and will have ALL of the gear door mounting bosses and detail you would see on the real strut machined into them.





For reference, i'm using the following two books:



And purchases this "blue-print" DVD set off ebay, it contains a good bit of prints, but not a complete set like you would expect by reading their description of it:




Then I took the plans, had then scanned and began converting some of the parts into CAD for laser cutting. Basically all of the wing parts are laser cut, while the fuselage parts and vertical stab parts were hand cut. The Horizontal stab ribs were modified to allow a 2 piece removable stab and cut on my CNC router. The stab was then built (over 2 months ago!) in about a 2 night stint.






Then using some 1/4" Luan underlayment all of the fuselage and cowl bulkheads were cut:



Then the balsa tail parts and thin ply portions were cut out to give a complete fuselage and tail section short kit:




I also received my laser cut wing ribs a few weeks ago.. The balsa ribs are 3/16" with a 1/8" ply and 1/16" ply doublers to "sandwhich" the ribs:




And a HUGE box of balsa arrived as well as some 1/4"x1" and 1/2"x1" Spruce for the wing spars:




That pretty much brings everyone up to date.. I'm waiting on the wing tubes and sockets to arrive, then I can begin building up the first wing panels so I can have all of the sub-assemblies needed for the fuselage.


Which brings me to the next bit of the project.. Since Evan is getting two and i'm building my own, i'm going to detail and mold the fuselage (which means Fiberglass short kits will be available, pricing already determined ) . In order to help offset some of the costs of the tooling and the landing gear design, i'm thinking of doing a kickstart project to help offset this cost. In this kickstart project, will be a few different rewards (a pair of 1/4 and 1/5 Rivet "burners), DVD how-to series of Detailed (much more detailed than what i put on youtube or build logs) plug construction, detailing, molding, vacuum bagging etc, and of course some TA-152 short kits (and short kits with landing gear)... If any of you guys are interested, i'd like to hear as the interest dictates whether i take the time to do them or not.

Also since the Pancakes are not done yet, this is a project that gets attention while the pancakes have stuff drying on them, so it will probably be early to mid fall before things Really start to progress onwards (i was hoping for late august, but life (mostly work) keeps getting in the way).
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:49 AM
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Yeah! Project STARTED!! Subscribed and remember me for a full KIT (or you could do the build...?) BTW did you ever resolve the gear down-lock option?

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Old 08-04-2014, 08:01 AM
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Lynn,
i think i do. The physical down lock for the gear is built into the retract mechanism, the scale downlock will be either a dummy or a working helper cylinder. The real 152 used a hydro-mechanical lock that locked the hydraulic cylinder in the extended position to lock the gear down. In the up position it used a electromechanical hook to hold it up like the rest of the 190 series

Thomas
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by invertmast View Post
Lynn,
i think i do. The physical down lock for the gear is built into the retract mechanism, the scale downlock will be either a dummy or a working helper cylinder. The real 152 used a hydro-mechanical lock that locked the hydraulic cylinder in the extended position to lock the gear down. In the up position it used a electromechanical hook to hold it up like the rest of the 190 series

Thomas
I am thinking of removing the Sierra downlink, and adding a dummy cylinder (with the correct angle) just for static judging, then re-installing the stock down link for the flying portion of competition.
I will be watching this build with interest. Also interested in your experience with the wing aspect of the build.
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
I am thinking of removing the Sierra downlink, and adding a dummy cylinder (with the correct angle) just for static judging, then re-installing the stock down link for the flying portion of competition.
I will be watching this build with interest. Also interested in your experience with the wing aspect of the build.
If I wanted to go through the headache of Sierra again, i would do the same.. but since this model will be intended for Topgun and I like being difficult, i just can't go with Sierra's gear.. they are nice for a sport scale model and a scale model with alot of work, but the lack of support i got with all the issues I had with the set i purchased for my 1/5 190 put the nail in the coffin in me ever buying another set of sierra's 190 gear.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:11 PM
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Yah, that sucks. Unfortunately, Sierra is the only game in town really, unless you have the coin to manufacture them yourself. I am not willing to go that far, and seriously, the Sierra gear (other than the downlink) are scale enough for Top gun, or any of the other scale rules/events. (AMA Nats, Scale Masters). As My aircraft will be for competition, Swapping the downlink for static will suffice for now. I have not made enough of a name for myself (or slept with the right person ) to get invited to Top gun yet.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
Yah, that sucks. Unfortunately, Sierra is the only game in town really, unless you have the coin to manufacture them yourself. I am not willing to go that far, and seriously, the Sierra gear (other than the downlink) are scale enough for Top gun, or any of the other scale rules/events. (AMA Nats, Scale Masters). As My aircraft will be for competition, Swapping the downlink for static will suffice for now. I have not made enough of a name for myself (or slept with the right person ) to get invited to Top gun yet.
My gear is within $100-200 of the same size Sierra gear, and the only reason I say its that much more is because I haven't gotten to test the set yet.. Machining costs for the unassembled parts is nearly identical to the cost of the Sierra gear, but i still have to purchase the items to assemble it and determine spring rates
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:19 PM
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https://www.volks.co.jp/page_ex.jsp?...075&version=en Here is the book that accompanies the plastic model. I highly recommend both.
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Old 08-06-2014, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
https://www.volks.co.jp/page_ex.jsp?...075&version=en Here is the book that accompanies the plastic model. I highly recommend both.
That one is on my list of stuff to buy before i start detailing this thing
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:40 AM
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David Andersen commented to me that his 1/5th model would actually thermal at idle! I can only imagine that you could get an even lower wing loading going to 1/4 scale.

I have followed a lot of builds on this aircraft, and it could be quite possible, that other than David himself, there has not been one of these completed yet by another builder. I have most of the hard stuff out of the way. The trailing edge was very tricky for me. An area to pay attention too, and in fact, If I were to do another one, would probably re-engineer it.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:49 AM
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Yea the wing looks a bit difficult along the trailing edge.. I also hate building wings with shims under the spars, it always makes things difficult and his build CD didn't answer many of the questions I had about it either..
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:44 AM
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I have one of this wings on the table on and off (actually starting second one).
Now with help of a friend who is much more skilled than I. The thing I would say - golden Brian Taylor.
Wing is really complicated and with the tabs on both sides of the ribs. Sometimes I would say the plan is not really clear as well.

Anyway I want it finished even if I will get Fliteskin wing and use the fuse I build already.

Back to the subject - Interesting build and good luck
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:02 AM
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Awesome project, I will have to tell Dave to tune in...he will be thrilled. I'll be watching.

JEff
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:10 AM
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What I did on my wing was to make a straight center line down the Leading edge stock. Then I made center marks on the fronts of the ribs, this way I new the L.E. was straight.

My wing is really straight, with the 2 degrees of washout at the tips. The tricky thing is that you start to build it upside down to accommodate the retract mounts etc. I am sure you will devise a method, but it is by far the most complicated wing, I have dealt with, in 30+ years.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
What I did on my wing was to make a straight center line down the Leading edge stock. Then I made center marks on the fronts of the ribs, this way I new the L.E. was straight.

My wing is really straight, with the 2 degrees of washout at the tips. The tricky thing is that you start to build it upside down to accommodate the retract mounts etc. I am sure you will devise a method, but it is by far the most complicated wing, I have dealt with, in 30+ years.
So you didn't use the shims under the wing spar? I'd love to see your wing.. especially a dead on view of the LE looking towards the TE, i'm wondering if it has the correct constant thickness where they put the center wing plug in..
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:30 AM
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I did build it according to the plans, but it was coming out goofy, so I had to make some corrections and do some "Air" building! There might be some issues with rib size or tab size. Every build I have seen, had problems with the wing.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:34 AM
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Gotcha... well, I guess i'll figure it out soon enough. my wing tubes should be home by the time I get back, so after some sanding and filling on the pancakes, I can clear off a bench and start framing up some wings.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
What I did on my wing was to make a straight center line down the Leading edge stock. Then I made center marks on the fronts of the ribs, this way I new the L.E. was straight.

My wing is really straight, with the 2 degrees of washout at the tips. The tricky thing is that you start to build it upside down to accommodate the retract mounts etc. I am sure you will devise a method, but it is by far the most complicated wing, I have dealt with, in 30+ years.
Yep this is what I did.
The major problem was late installation of retracts mounts and I would say that some of the center ribs are not really correct in terms of wing tube location.
Or it was my kit cutter...
The confusing thing is when you have the wing done upside down it can be skinned only up to the main spar to avoid conflict with the rib tabs.
The shims under main spar is something special to Andersen designs too.

Can I ask - when you rotate the wing, the shims shall be still in place?
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Old 08-06-2014, 12:07 PM
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One thing that REALLY helped me out, is I have a copy of the construction article of the 1/6th scale, which was the original design. The 1/5th was blown up from that one. This construction article appeared in RCM, in the early 90's. If you have a hard time finding it, let me know, and I can send you a copy. all of the info you can obtain, is helpful.

Another thing to watch, With the dihedral set as per the plans, and the landing gear blocks set according to how my kit was cut, the landing gear do not sit as they should. By this I mean the wheels are not 90 degrees to the ground when extended. I am noticing that my wheels are going in too far, so my mounts need to be modified slightly to fix this. I will use a router and jig to accomplish this. I am mentioning this as an area to watch, as it was one of many problems I encountered. Not so much with the design Per se, but my kit cutter was terrible, and I have replaced almost everything they cut for me. Looks like you went the right way Invert, and just cut it yourself.
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Old 08-06-2014, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
One thing that REALLY helped me out, is I have a copy of the construction article of the 1/6th scale, which was the original design. The 1/5th was blown up from that one. This construction article appeared in RCM, in the early 90's. If you have a hard time finding it, let me know, and I can send you a copy. all of the info you can obtain, is helpful.

Another thing to watch, With the dihedral set as per the plans, and the landing gear blocks set according to how my kit was cut, the landing gear do not sit as they should. By this I mean the wheels are not 90 degrees to the ground when extended. I am noticing that my wheels are going in too far, so my mounts need to be modified slightly to fix this. I will use a router and jig to accomplish this. I am mentioning this as an area to watch, as it was one of many problems I encountered. Not so much with the design Per se, but my kit cutter was terrible, and I have replaced almost everything they cut for me. Looks like you went the right way Invert, and just cut it yourself.
Yea i have never really been happy with any of the kit cutters i have used that did their own cad conversions, they always miss parts, use the wrong material, or just get the parts wrong. Its much less stressful to just cut it myself, or so my own cad conversion of the parts and ship them off to have cut.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:34 PM
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Hey Thomas, you did it again!

well if you can CNC a 1/4 scale gear you surely can CNC a 1/5! you know my 152 is using Sierra but I want a scale undercarriage with the correct pintle angle. what ya say?

JoseG.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JGrc View Post
Hey Thomas, you did it again!

well if you can CNC a 1/4 scale gear you surely can CNC a 1/5! you know my 152 is using Sierra but I want a scale undercarriage with the correct pintle angle. what ya say?

JoseG.
jose,
I can do it buddy! I will have to redesign the retract mechanism for 1/5 scale, but we can get you going. It seems my gear has a pretty large demand in 1/5th scale, so once i get some free time away from work, ill work on the design for that.

Thomas
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
I am thinking of removing the Sierra downlink, and adding a dummy cylinder (with the correct angle) just for static judging, then re-installing the stock down link for the flying portion of competition.
I will be watching this build with interest. Also interested in your experience with the wing aspect of the build.
Grimmace -- Dude, I have been beating this drum, for my Vailly 190, for some time now! Right Thomas?! My idea is the same with regards to having a scale "static" retraction arm for the Sierra gear. A good looking one piece so it can support the weight...then switch it out for the functional flat one during flight. If you find a source I want to piggy-back on an order!
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BeasleyBunch View Post
Grimmace -- Dude, I have been beating this drum, for my Vailly 190, for some time now! Right Thomas?! My idea is the same with regards to having a scale "static" retraction arm for the Sierra gear. A good looking one piece so it can support the weight...then switch it out for the functional flat one during flight. If you find a source I want to piggy-back on an order!
In all honesty, I was most likely going to scratch build something here from telescoping tubes etc., and adding any other detail to make it scale. At first I was looking at the
Bimba air cylinders from McMaster Carr, but figured I did not want to pay that much for a functional cylinder, just for static.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace View Post
In all honesty, I was most likely going to scratch build something here from telescoping tubes etc., and adding any other detail to make it scale. At first I was looking at the
Bimba air cylinders from McMaster Carr, but figured I did not want to pay that much for a functional cylinder, just for static.
My bad, G... Forgot that the Ta has a completely different retraction arm (cylinder) than the regular 190 with the mechanical one. Carry-On!
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