Inexpesive Electric Retracts
#51
My Feedback: (14)
ram3500-RCU said, "Some thing new is just days away. It will be an affordable, yes extremely competitive" and then agreed with, "Buy cheap buy twice."
So which is it? Will the new product be expensive and high quality....or affordable and low quality. Apparently, it can't be both?
So which is it? Will the new product be expensive and high quality....or affordable and low quality. Apparently, it can't be both?
#52
A good friend of mine designed the electronics for electric retracts. He had perfected the circuitry and the motors then sold his design because he couldn't turn down the offer he got. The company who bought his design cheapened up on the components and the gear is not what it should be if they stayed with his components. He is kind of pissed and discouraged by what they did plus he signed a contract so he can't make gear anymore. He makes them for his own plane but won't even make me a set. He told me if they just stayed with the original design that everyone would be very happy with the electric retracts. I know his gear works great and he's never had an issue. He's flying 1/5-1/6 stuff too. Too bad companies take good designs, cheapen them up, then sell them to us, sometimes for a lot of money because we think we're getting quality.
#53
There was a Southern BC flyer that had his air retracts converted to electric by Down and Locked . Worked fine on the bench but failed to extended prior to landing I think it was due to the flying pressures and one or more of the gear failed to extend; may have been the nose gear. Result was some lost paint on the foreword section. Cause was the drive motors did not have enough power to extend which was changed by Down and Locked and then everything worked fine. This Could be the issue with the cheaper retracts . May work for a few times and then quit at a bad time with either the control board or drive system not being able to take the stresses. Lots of testing before marketing costs money but is a necessity for a successful product.
I have come to the conclusion I prefer the external control box with the drive system being just the motor and gearing system.
I have come to the conclusion I prefer the external control box with the drive system being just the motor and gearing system.
Last edited by stegl; 04-25-2015 at 07:29 AM.
#54
My Feedback: (221)
ram3500-RCU said, "Some thing new is just days away. It will be an affordable, yes extremely competitive" and then agreed with, "Buy cheap buy twice."
So which is it? Will the new product be expensive and high quality....or affordable and low quality. Apparently, it can't be both?
So which is it? Will the new product be expensive and high quality....or affordable and low quality. Apparently, it can't be both?
#56
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lindsborg,
KS
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have the old version of the hanger nine p51 that has been rebuilt several times and I have used the real cheap HK retracts that operated for twenty wobbly flights, I now have traded them in for the metal trunion version of the same retract. They while not perfect are better than before but HK is a crap shoot, Bought four of them and three of them worked. Support is non existent from HK. The 5mm studs I have attached to robostruts is soft but usable so far. Definately don't trust in a giant scale master piece,but in a 20 year old arf I'll take my chances. Take risks on the plane but never on the safety of others or yourself.
#59
My Feedback: (221)
Not my company, not my job to figure that out. But, I have another good saying for you. Experience is the best teacher. The company has the experience along with a stellar reputation. I'm thinking it won't take long to demonstrate the worth and value of the product in the hands of knowledgeable rc enthusiasts.
#60
My Feedback: (16)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: apex,
NC
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have a 40+ lb Corsair as i do,you definitely will not trust the "chink" gear ! Sierra or Robart,which i run now are just plain made studier than anything else. The Robart just plain works and keeps on working on air . They ALL require maintenance ,as full size birds do, and if you maintain them they will give you MANY years of great service.
#61
If these are the more recent Robart gears I believe that they are using the Down and Locked technology that has been pretty successful . I could be wrong but heard somewhere that Robart bought out Down and Locked.....
#62
Tony, what HK retract would you suggest for a ~ 8-9 lbs King Kobra (tricycle gear).
And for those who think price=value, the right equation is money=perceived value. Whether the perception is justified or not it is an entirely different matter. Case in point, FrSky Taranis vs. Spectrum...
And for those who think price=value, the right equation is money=perceived value. Whether the perception is justified or not it is an entirely different matter. Case in point, FrSky Taranis vs. Spectrum...
#63
My Feedback: (193)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Parrish,
FL
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ululi1970 -- I use the HK metal trunnion retracts #225000018. The nose gear on my Dirty Birdy is 225000017. I also put a strut on the nose gear and made it work, 344000013. I think if you search these numbers on HK web site, the correct items will pop up. Any problem, let me know, I'll send the link directly.
When I first set up the Birdy I couldn't figure out how to put an electric on the nose because it was tight in there and I couldn't find a product that worked. If you read the article I did on it in modelairplanenews.com you can see how I solved it originally, which wasn't really satisfactory. I kept at it and HK finally came out with a nose gear that fit. I don't use the steering tab they include with the retract. I put a pull-pull on mine, and use 40 pound test fishing line on it. So far, works perfectly.
I use Top Flite struts made for the P-47 or the Mustang 60 on most of the retracts in my planes. 5mm, they plug right in. They cost about $10 for a set. They are tough too.
There's no doubt that the larger planes need strong gear. Robart and others are definitely rugged but very over-priced in my opinion. When I was learning to land my AT-6 I tore up at least two sets of the stock gear that was included in the kit. After 10-12 flights, we put "U" shaped plywood plates over the plastic frames. That did the trick. But electrics are so much better, and I swapped out the mechanicals for the HKs and never went back. Be careful using heavy Robart struts with the HK electrics. If the HKs have a weak link, I think it's the worm drive. The metal seems like it would strip easily if the gear gets jammed and gets banged hard. On my H9 Spitfire I put Robart struts on it originally but they seemed too heavy. I took them off, put the HK struts on because they are lighter. I generally use foam wheels. Robart scale wheels are nice looking, but weigh 2 or 3 X the foam. I've also taken to putting the HK aluminum hub wheels/tires on some planes, and they are light, strong, and cool looking.
Two things I do sometimes with my planes. I do a loop, retract the gear at the top of the loop while inverted, and when I roll out or complete the loop, the wheels are retracted. Always draws some laughs and is easy on the gear. And second, land gently. That's the best suggestion of all.
When I first set up the Birdy I couldn't figure out how to put an electric on the nose because it was tight in there and I couldn't find a product that worked. If you read the article I did on it in modelairplanenews.com you can see how I solved it originally, which wasn't really satisfactory. I kept at it and HK finally came out with a nose gear that fit. I don't use the steering tab they include with the retract. I put a pull-pull on mine, and use 40 pound test fishing line on it. So far, works perfectly.
I use Top Flite struts made for the P-47 or the Mustang 60 on most of the retracts in my planes. 5mm, they plug right in. They cost about $10 for a set. They are tough too.
There's no doubt that the larger planes need strong gear. Robart and others are definitely rugged but very over-priced in my opinion. When I was learning to land my AT-6 I tore up at least two sets of the stock gear that was included in the kit. After 10-12 flights, we put "U" shaped plywood plates over the plastic frames. That did the trick. But electrics are so much better, and I swapped out the mechanicals for the HKs and never went back. Be careful using heavy Robart struts with the HK electrics. If the HKs have a weak link, I think it's the worm drive. The metal seems like it would strip easily if the gear gets jammed and gets banged hard. On my H9 Spitfire I put Robart struts on it originally but they seemed too heavy. I took them off, put the HK struts on because they are lighter. I generally use foam wheels. Robart scale wheels are nice looking, but weigh 2 or 3 X the foam. I've also taken to putting the HK aluminum hub wheels/tires on some planes, and they are light, strong, and cool looking.
Two things I do sometimes with my planes. I do a loop, retract the gear at the top of the loop while inverted, and when I roll out or complete the loop, the wheels are retracted. Always draws some laughs and is easy on the gear. And second, land gently. That's the best suggestion of all.
#66
Thank you Tony.
I will give them a try. And yes, I was planning to use a U-shaped ply backplate to mount the gear. The King Kobra has a foam core wing and the plate is pretty much the only way to go (with some other tricks) to make sure
the whole thing won't get ripped off.
As for landing gently, that goes without saying, though I am still working on that...
Alberto
I will give them a try. And yes, I was planning to use a U-shaped ply backplate to mount the gear. The King Kobra has a foam core wing and the plate is pretty much the only way to go (with some other tricks) to make sure
the whole thing won't get ripped off.
As for landing gently, that goes without saying, though I am still working on that...
Alberto
#68
Maybe I better clarify myself before I get crapped on too much....LOL Back in 2011 Robart " partnered" ( did not buy)with Down and Locked with their design and at that time used "made in America retract mechanism on their electric retracts with an external control box and not have the control unit on each retract mechanism itself like the Chinese and Eflite (made in china) electric retracts. The mechanical portion of the retract was made by Robart. What they do now; who knows. Once a successful item is made in a country ; quite often it is sourced out to another country because of the buck. Basically it is all in quality control and what is done and how fast it is done to correct flaws. Testing and correction is usually the key to success
#71
While quality and value are often related it is not always a hard and fast rule. I have found that you can often have quality and value depending on the intended use. Another words, what are your expectations for the product? I have purchased many things that were inexpensive and perceived as cheap but performed very well for my intended use. Case in point would be an angle grinder I bought from Harbor Freight for $15 just to use to sharpen my mower blades with. It performs up to my expectations for what I use it for and since I don't count on it to make a living or save my life, then the quality is acceptable for the price. On the other hand I have paid very good money for stuff that should have never been made in the first.place. My Dad was involved with R&D for all his life and I can tell you it is time consuming and expensive, and even when you think you have done it right something pops up that can kill your business. Just look at all the recalls for cars.
#72
Sincerely, Richard
#73
My Feedback: (15)
I have been using e-tracts for about 5 years. I find it best to use them and not argue with anyone on QC, cost etc. Its like a subject for some reason of politics.
I have luck up to 15 lbs , and my planes are not $2000, buy many close at $1200 to $1500.
I find much of the USA brands made in the USA have a lot of urban legend behind them when it comes to the reliability in electric. Again not speaking about Sierra, I have that gear in air power and its second to none.
When it comes to electric its getting more and more difficult to get the cheaper retracts because as soon as they come in stock they sell out.
I think supply and demand is a telling sign of performance over the long haul
I have luck up to 15 lbs , and my planes are not $2000, buy many close at $1200 to $1500.
I find much of the USA brands made in the USA have a lot of urban legend behind them when it comes to the reliability in electric. Again not speaking about Sierra, I have that gear in air power and its second to none.
When it comes to electric its getting more and more difficult to get the cheaper retracts because as soon as they come in stock they sell out.
I think supply and demand is a telling sign of performance over the long haul
#74
The thing with electrics ; I believe that the durability of motor drive and electronic control board is the big thing as the newer mechanics are getting much better and of course even the "cheap ones" are improving and as they improve upwards so does the pricing.