Ziroli 1/6 Hellcat Build
07-25-2017, 03:54 PM
#151
Thread Starter
From additional searches on 'securing wing panels,' seeing more references to my "blue" option, above. See that most are running 1/4-20 nylon bolts. So, making decision to go with it.
Has anyone used the Xion RC Cam-lock solution on 1/6 scale or larger aircraft?: http://xionrc.com/xion_wing_lock.html I like the idea of spending less time fumbling with tools in tight spaces.
Ordered a pair, today.
Has anyone used the Xion RC Cam-lock solution on 1/6 scale or larger aircraft?: http://xionrc.com/xion_wing_lock.html I like the idea of spending less time fumbling with tools in tight spaces.
Ordered a pair, today.
Last edited by DaleCS; 07-27-2017 at 06:16 PM. Reason: Update
08-04-2017, 05:13 PM
#152
Thread Starter
7 servos ordered: Hitec HS-5645MG Digital Ultra-Torque Metal Gear 2BB (ailerons, flaps, elevators and rudder)
and, servo programmer: Hitec HFP-30 Field Programmer
Xion RC Cam-locks should arrive, soon.
and, servo programmer: Hitec HFP-30 Field Programmer
Xion RC Cam-locks should arrive, soon.
08-09-2017, 04:00 PM
#153
Thread Starter
New servos are in the house! Glad I went with these Hitec digitals - the two for the elevators will fit well next to the engine mount box, and they are quite a bit lighter than servos used in previous Byron Hellcat - should help reduce the weight needed for balance.
Xion RC cam-wing locks - still waiting....
Progress slow, still, but still having fun.
Xion RC cam-wing locks - still waiting....
Progress slow, still, but still having fun.
09-03-2017, 01:28 PM
#154
Thread Starter
Aileron and flap servos mounted to their wing panel covers. Plans showed servos with arms running in plane 90 degrees relative to motion of control arms - this isn't the best for use of available servo motion and precision. I've always run wing servos with control and servo arms is same reference plane, so did the same here - makes mounting a little more complicated than print, but works and looks better.
Also, threw in a picture of Yankee Lady (B-17) at Selfridge ANGB airshow a couple weekends ago - base celebrated its 100th anniversary this year.
Also, threw in a picture of Yankee Lady (B-17) at Selfridge ANGB airshow a couple weekends ago - base celebrated its 100th anniversary this year.
09-13-2017, 07:30 PM
#155
Thread Starter
Aileron, flap mounts and half ribs installed. Half ribs made from 3/32 ply. Need to drill, countersink holes for mounting screws, then complete framing of servo covers.,
10-08-2017, 02:26 PM
#156
Thread Starter
Aileron and flap servos installed. Adding bottom sheeting to center section. Using an old manila folder, made a template of the wheel which I then mount to landing gear. I trace the template and rough cut/drum sand to template line. Then I mount the wheel and use sand paper on it's outer diameter, rotating the wheel/sandpaper against the balsa sheet. As I do this, I press the landing gear left, right - the widens the opening as the landing gear has a bit of play in its assembly. When done, I have a nice smooth, round opening that lets the wheel retract within its max left/right tolerances.
I'm leaving the bottom section of the wing, above the belly pan, unsheeted. By leaving this open, have option for locating receiver, smoke pump, smoke oil tank, there.
XionRC wing locks never arrived. See that their website and email address are dead - contacting RedwingRC as it looks like they've taken over XionRC's product line.
I'm leaving the bottom section of the wing, above the belly pan, unsheeted. By leaving this open, have option for locating receiver, smoke pump, smoke oil tank, there.
XionRC wing locks never arrived. See that their website and email address are dead - contacting RedwingRC as it looks like they've taken over XionRC's product line.
10-10-2017, 09:09 AM
#158
Thread Starter
I plan to open the wells to scale shape - just starting with minimum clearance requirements. I have gear covers left over from my Byron - one of the few things that survived. Now that the gear retracts fully, I can position these covers, trace and make my cuts relative to the gear. If the scale position of the retracted gear door is off a bit, I really don't have any room to reposition the gear, so working off the fixed position of the gear seemed best.
Now, if you're printing your own covers, let me know.
Are you progressing other cockpit details?
Also, I need to contact 'mirce' about his panel details. I should probably get these from him before I locate the formation lights. I also need to get the lights, still. Don't want to mount the lights and then find that his panel details have a spot for this and it's location is a bit different from my placement - want to avoid rework.
I did finally get some info on my missing wing locks from XionRC: They are out of business! Website is down, email address is dead. Owner of RedwingRC which took over the product line is attempting to get my money returned from XionRC.
One more question, for you or anyone following: How to best cut the recessed hinge slots in leading edges of control surfaces? I've done them buy hand in past, and the results were adequate. Would like the results to look more realistic, polished, sharp then what I've achieved free handing this task. If unsure what I'm asking for, when looking from end of control surface, I need to remove a pie/pizza slice shape, about an 1/8" thick, at each hinge point, as the hinge point is about 3/8" back from the leading edge of the control surface. Sorry I don't have a picture to explain better - at lunch, at work and must get back to it.
Cheers.
Last edited by DaleCS; 10-10-2017 at 06:53 PM. Reason: grammer
10-11-2017, 04:52 PM
#159
Thread Starter
Here are the Byron gear door covers. Now that I see them in place, I could have used a larger template - which probably goes to Chad's question. Well, better to take too little material off, as it's harder to put back on....
10-11-2017, 05:14 PM
#160
My Feedback: (45)
Received the wing tube sockets for the outer wing panels. One fit perfectly, just like the original two. The last piece was woefully undersized in ID. Supplier (TNT Landing Gear Products) suggested several ways to hone the ID of the tube, rather than supply a replacement. Since I didn't have a brake or engine cylinder hone, nor willing to buy one or find one for rent, went with a slotted wood dowel with a folded over piece of 120 grit emery cloth. Insert dowel into the drill chuck of my ShopSmith, and there I go, honing the ID of a phenolic tube! Took a number of passes, stopping to check that I hadn't gone to far, but worked out fine. Just a bit miffed about the unplanned work, additional run to HomeDepot, etc. Oh well, have a new, cheap tool in my kit that works.
2nd pic shows the outer wing tube socket installed. Goal of easily removing wing tube for transport, easy replacement if damaged, met!
Pics 3 and 4 - I really don't want to drill into the carbon tube to secure the wing. So, to secure the tube from moving in the sockets, took a scrap section of the socket, cut two pieces about a 1/4" wide, cut a small section out of each, and plan to glue them into each end as end stops as shown in Pic 3. In Pic 4, I have marked up a couple option for securing the outer wing panel to the inner panel:
Second option, I used on my Byron Hellcat, but it was a secondary/backup - more for pulling the inner and outer panels together tightly for cosmetic purposes. It's also probably the easier, lighter of the two options.
Before cutting into the ribs for either option, anyone with a better idea?
2nd pic shows the outer wing tube socket installed. Goal of easily removing wing tube for transport, easy replacement if damaged, met!
Pics 3 and 4 - I really don't want to drill into the carbon tube to secure the wing. So, to secure the tube from moving in the sockets, took a scrap section of the socket, cut two pieces about a 1/4" wide, cut a small section out of each, and plan to glue them into each end as end stops as shown in Pic 3. In Pic 4, I have marked up a couple option for securing the outer wing panel to the inner panel:
- Red Option: Mount a wood bar in the outer wing panel with an extension that will slide into the inner wing panel; bolt through the bottom of the wing, into the wood bar (I've simplified this drawing - I know I'll need a hardwood piece fixed in the inner wing panel, too, as a bolt through balsa into hardwood bar is in sufficient!)
- Blue Option: Wood block mounted to outer wing panel rib, with bolt from inner wing panel going through ribs into wood block - accessed through wheel well
Second option, I used on my Byron Hellcat, but it was a secondary/backup - more for pulling the inner and outer panels together tightly for cosmetic purposes. It's also probably the easier, lighter of the two options.
Before cutting into the ribs for either option, anyone with a better idea?
10-12-2017, 06:27 PM
#161
Thread Starter
10-15-2017, 02:47 PM
#164
Thread Starter
Rudder/tail wheel servo installed behind cockpit. Only have plans for one server, here. Slot at front of servo tray and screws at back mean that I can add trays, or take the existing tray out and put a larger one in, should I ever need to.
Elevator servos rough positioned. A little concerned about space for control arm. The black arm will give me more throw, but will need to be cut down a bit - the remainder will still give a longer arm than the white disk. If I need more throw, will either need to cut into engine mount wall in order to move servo inboard a bit (not the best idea, I think), or move servos next to rudder servo behind cockpit (will mean more balance weight added to nose).
I think I'll get those hinge slots cut in the elevator halves, next. I can then temporarily mount everything, get measurements and even connect everything up to see how much elevator movement I can get. On a non-reduced Ziroli, expect this isn't a concern - there's probably plenty of space for longer control arms. Have plenty of torque from the servos - almost 50% more than calculated need. Expect I can gain a bit of throw using a shorter position up the control arm on the elevator.
Elevator servos rough positioned. A little concerned about space for control arm. The black arm will give me more throw, but will need to be cut down a bit - the remainder will still give a longer arm than the white disk. If I need more throw, will either need to cut into engine mount wall in order to move servo inboard a bit (not the best idea, I think), or move servos next to rudder servo behind cockpit (will mean more balance weight added to nose).
I think I'll get those hinge slots cut in the elevator halves, next. I can then temporarily mount everything, get measurements and even connect everything up to see how much elevator movement I can get. On a non-reduced Ziroli, expect this isn't a concern - there's probably plenty of space for longer control arms. Have plenty of torque from the servos - almost 50% more than calculated need. Expect I can gain a bit of throw using a shorter position up the control arm on the elevator.
Last edited by DaleCS; 10-15-2017 at 04:15 PM.
10-15-2017, 04:27 PM
#165
Thread Starter
Working with RedwingRC, XionRC has sent a check returning my funds. Thank you, Jeff, at RedwingRC.
Jeff has asked if I could help find someone to manufacture about 100 1/4-20 studs and rubber grommets for the wing lock product. Picture, attached. If a serious source makes contact, I may have drawings, soon - they're on a computer, somewhere, but I think Jeff has his hands full with higher priorities.
Jeff has asked if I could help find someone to manufacture about 100 1/4-20 studs and rubber grommets for the wing lock product. Picture, attached. If a serious source makes contact, I may have drawings, soon - they're on a computer, somewhere, but I think Jeff has his hands full with higher priorities.
10-15-2017, 05:20 PM
#166
My Feedback: (45)
Ive finished the majority of the base build out, mounted motor (DLE 111), throttle and choke servos mounted also.
Tonight just hooked up the rudder and elevator servo. Using one elevator servo with a elevator joiner wire, tried and true I guess. The rudder, elevator and tailwheel steering and retract servo are going in the stock location.
Everything is hinged up, made a hatch and tailwheel retract access fairing.
Once i I get the cockpit installed and the wing servos mounted I should be close to glassing.
Tonight just hooked up the rudder and elevator servo. Using one elevator servo with a elevator joiner wire, tried and true I guess. The rudder, elevator and tailwheel steering and retract servo are going in the stock location.
Everything is hinged up, made a hatch and tailwheel retract access fairing.
Once i I get the cockpit installed and the wing servos mounted I should be close to glassing.
10-16-2017, 06:44 PM
#167
Thread Starter
Mpizpilot: Looking good. The choke and throttle locations couldn't be better for installing servos. I'm reusing my rebuilt Precision Eagle 4.2, with a new carb. Throttle is able to reuse bell-crank setup from original carb. Choke lever on old carb was easy to access and flip by hand. On new carb, will have to create another bell-crank setup and install second servo.
Thanks for the picture on hatch creation. I'll need to do this, too.
Thanks for the picture on hatch creation. I'll need to do this, too.
11-05-2017, 07:26 AM
#168
Thread Starter
Have my method for making hinge cut-outs/slots for offset elevator pin hinges.
The slot opening is now 180 degrees. This should work for the outer two hinges. The full-scale Hellcat only had 2 hinge slots per elevator - I have 3. Will look at installing some inserts, at least on the top, to reduce the opening on the inner most hinge slot to something less than 180 - may not hide the slot entirely, but at least make it less obvious.
- Hinges needed 7/32" clearance.
- Didn't have any 7/32" sheet, so made a template by making a sandwich of 2 1/16" and 1 3/32" sheets.
- Holding the corner of the sandwich in the hinge hole and placing 1/16" pieces on either side of the sandwich, mark the cut-out width
- Using card template wrapped around leading edge, extend the cut-out markings around top and bottom of leading edge
- Using scroll saw, cut just inside each marking, removing the block
- Glue the two 1/16" pieces in place, with sandwich block in middle (1st picture)
- After glue dries, remove the sandwich block (2nd picture) and then cut/sand the excess off
- Insert pin hinge and test fit (3rd picture)
The slot opening is now 180 degrees. This should work for the outer two hinges. The full-scale Hellcat only had 2 hinge slots per elevator - I have 3. Will look at installing some inserts, at least on the top, to reduce the opening on the inner most hinge slot to something less than 180 - may not hide the slot entirely, but at least make it less obvious.
11-12-2017, 11:55 PM
#170
For Hellcat model "Mirce models" can offer:
- Mirce Finish set - Mirce Finish Set - NS Modelers
- Detail set for F6F - Detail set for F6F Hellcat - NS Modelers
- Extra rivets set 35.000 rivets - Mirce Rivets Set - NS Modelers
- Paint masc for stars and bars - Mirce Rivets Set - NS Modelers
Discount on order three or four set.
Shipping is just 15,00$ worldwide.
I have very detailed guide for every panel line and all other details, so no problem how and where to apply all parts.
Best regards
Mirce
- Mirce Finish set - Mirce Finish Set - NS Modelers
- Detail set for F6F - Detail set for F6F Hellcat - NS Modelers
- Extra rivets set 35.000 rivets - Mirce Rivets Set - NS Modelers
- Paint masc for stars and bars - Mirce Rivets Set - NS Modelers
Discount on order three or four set.
Shipping is just 15,00$ worldwide.
I have very detailed guide for every panel line and all other details, so no problem how and where to apply all parts.
Best regards
Mirce
11-13-2017, 06:42 PM
#171
Thread Starter
Second your opinion on the DB versions - 3D printing is the way forward.
11-25-2017, 08:09 PM
#172
Thread Starter
Progress on right elevator:
- Elevator tip and stab tip carved/sanded to fit
- Trim tab built up, shaped, mounting pins fitted, cut from elevator, end capped and sanded for 1/32" gaps on either side and leading edge shaped
- Support blocks for Robart hinges installed
- Innermost hinge top slot covered (on full-scale, only two hinge slots are visible, so I'm hiding the third)
Ordered Mirce's 1/6 scale detail set for Don Smith plans - the Smith plane has the same exact wingspan as my reduced Ziroli. Set arrived last week - looks great.
- Elevator tip and stab tip carved/sanded to fit
- Trim tab built up, shaped, mounting pins fitted, cut from elevator, end capped and sanded for 1/32" gaps on either side and leading edge shaped
- Support blocks for Robart hinges installed
- Innermost hinge top slot covered (on full-scale, only two hinge slots are visible, so I'm hiding the third)
Ordered Mirce's 1/6 scale detail set for Don Smith plans - the Smith plane has the same exact wingspan as my reduced Ziroli. Set arrived last week - looks great.
11-26-2017, 05:41 PM
#173
Thread Starter
Elevator servo position problem resolved. Had planned to put the elevator servos on either side of the engine/fuel box, as I've seen others do. However, with the 1/6 scale, reduced from 5.4, the space didn't allow for much choice in servo arm lengths. I checked the max travel I could get with a servo arm that fit the space, and the result was 'just enough,' a result I didn't like. If I needed any more travel, there just wouldn't be any options.
I put the fuel tank in and saw that there was plenty of room to put the elevator servos at the back of the engine/fuel box - and I can use whatever servo arms I need without space restrictions. Made up a servo tray - picture shows test fit. Looks like a good solution. Will finish the installation, next.
I put the fuel tank in and saw that there was plenty of room to put the elevator servos at the back of the engine/fuel box - and I can use whatever servo arms I need without space restrictions. Made up a servo tray - picture shows test fit. Looks like a good solution. Will finish the installation, next.
11-29-2017, 06:42 PM
#174
Thread Starter
Elevator servos installation - complete! Vertical position of the servos is such that the servo arms lie midway between the cockpit floor bottom and top of center wing section. Tray is epoxied and screwed to hardwood rails. The hardwood rails are epoxied and dowel pinned to ply sides of engine/fuel box.
12-23-2017, 07:10 PM
#175
Thread Starter
Status update:
- both elevator halves ready for covering (trim tabs fitted, hinge slots finished, ends sanded/swept to fit stab end sweep)
- rudder almost compete (trim tab fitted, hinges slots finished, horn radius sanded; working, now, on sanding rudder/fin end to shape)
Pictures:
First three show how I'm creating the slots for the hinge points, same as used on elevators.
- make a template using a sandwich 3/32" pieces and a couple 3/16" pieces in the middle, hinge point brass extension between the two 3/16" pieces
- remove the hinge point
- lay sand paper on leading edge; sand half-round shape into sandwich
- insert hinge point through sandwich and through leading edge (hole previously drilled
- mark the edges (1st picture)
- with X-acto knife, cut along markings, removing wedge of material (2nd picture)
- cut wedge shaped 3/32" pieces to fit top and bottom of slot
- glue wedges in place, using another 3/16" piece of balsa between them to hold them in correct position while glue sets
- remove balsa spacer and sand to shape, insert hinge-point (3rd picture)
A lot of work, but I have straight hinge-point slots, with no end grain exposed - a nice, smooth finish.
4th picture: Front view of fin showing fin and rudder clamped together for sanding end shape.in both. Since this is a visually prominent feature, will use a pin gauge to ensure curve shape is the same on both left and right halves of fin/rudder.
So close to be done with tail control surfaces - can't wait to get the Solartex on. Then should be ready to mount the elevator and fin to the fuse.
- both elevator halves ready for covering (trim tabs fitted, hinge slots finished, ends sanded/swept to fit stab end sweep)
- rudder almost compete (trim tab fitted, hinges slots finished, horn radius sanded; working, now, on sanding rudder/fin end to shape)
Pictures:
First three show how I'm creating the slots for the hinge points, same as used on elevators.
- make a template using a sandwich 3/32" pieces and a couple 3/16" pieces in the middle, hinge point brass extension between the two 3/16" pieces
- remove the hinge point
- lay sand paper on leading edge; sand half-round shape into sandwich
- insert hinge point through sandwich and through leading edge (hole previously drilled
- mark the edges (1st picture)
- with X-acto knife, cut along markings, removing wedge of material (2nd picture)
- cut wedge shaped 3/32" pieces to fit top and bottom of slot
- glue wedges in place, using another 3/16" piece of balsa between them to hold them in correct position while glue sets
- remove balsa spacer and sand to shape, insert hinge-point (3rd picture)
A lot of work, but I have straight hinge-point slots, with no end grain exposed - a nice, smooth finish.
4th picture: Front view of fin showing fin and rudder clamped together for sanding end shape.in both. Since this is a visually prominent feature, will use a pin gauge to ensure curve shape is the same on both left and right halves of fin/rudder.
So close to be done with tail control surfaces - can't wait to get the Solartex on. Then should be ready to mount the elevator and fin to the fuse.