LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I know this type of question can be loaded with drama but if possible just looking for real facts.
I know the eletric side, pre field prep, flight times, weight, charging, all benifits and all negatives but I dont know the gas side. I think the biggest advanatge gas has is the ability to enjoy longer flight times.
If I choose gas, based on the ESM Corsair needing nose weight , I would go with a 35 or larger.
So my question is : For gas
What do I need to know how much pre field and post field work is needed including charging ignition systems etc.
Positives, negatives, how difficult to break them in, timing plugs etc, is this a difficult science in itself ?
Thanks for any and all help

mikes68charger

My Feedback: (34)

I had one with DLE55RA with the sweet Mopower / Troybuilt 20 in 3 blade adjustable prop. With its scale hub and cone it really set it off on the ground and the air. It flew great and had plenty of power and still fit nice

TomCrump

While not as convenient as electrics, gas engines are no big deal.

I use a separate battery pack for ignition. I charge it when I charge the RX pack. Other than a little more clean up, there's nothing extra to do before, or after, a day's flying.

Like I had when I started to fly electrics, you may have a few growing pains. With a little patience, you'll work your way through them. I think that if you decide to go gas, you will like it.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Tom , thanks that is exactly what I was looking for, thank you.
As far as batterys are you useing the more complex Lifi for the ignition with a special regulator for the servos etc ?
I have seen some sets up that show -Engine + Life for ignition + regular battery for flight system.
Also do I have to be super careful with distance of ignition system from receiver ?
Assume regular unleaded /or high test with proper rc motor oil mixture for gas ?

Mike I have seen one video of the ESM 75" Corsair on a DLE 55, I remember telling people in another thread and they said "that is super crazy" because it was not desiged for an engine that size.
So I found the video and posted it in that thread lol . The DLE 55 is very large for the 75" Corsair however it will not require any nose weight with that engine so to me that was a total win all around when you can add functional weight and not have to add lead. My only concern is that the plane would need some structual support because of the added power /torque. Thoughts ?

alanc

Depends on what you want, do you just want the prop going round? Or scale sound? Electric can give you this, with a suitable bendini sound system, and speakers, its totally convincing,
If i was starting over, i would invest in electric, But, i have just too many petrol engines for that! Only disadvantage for petrol engined models is the smell of the stuff, for me anyway

TomCrump

[QUOTE=LDM;12118258]Tom , thanks that is exactly what I was looking for, thank you.
As far as batterys are you useing the more complex Lifi for the ignition with a special regulator for the servos etc ?
I have seen some sets up that show -Engine + Life for ignition + regular battery for flight system.
Also do I have to be super careful with distance of ignition system from receiver ?
Assume regular unleaded /or high test with proper rc motor oil mixture for gas ?
QUOTE]

I'm Old School. I still run nicad and nihm packs. Many of my ignition engines are older. I use nicad 4.8 packs on the ignition.

I still like to keep my ignition syatem a 12" distance from the radio gear. If it's not possible, I don't worry about it, though.

For fuel, I use premium, but I'm not above stealing my weed eater's gas. I mix my oil at 32:1 or 40:1.

patrnflyr

My Feedback: (7)

I have an ESM FW190 that we electrified. Flew really well and the gun cowl made access to batteries easy. With that said, we converted to a DLE35RA within ten flights and it was perfect from then on. Flew much longer and motor seemed to be made for it. I'd go gas and we have a lot of electrics.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks Tom , great info, I prefer to use your methods as well.

Alanc I hear you about eletric sound but the only system in my opinion to capture real engine sound is Bendini as you stated and they are still useing the older speakers that need boxes and exist ports.
IN addition you end with with a super heavy model unless you need nose weight.
I remember Sean build under his tag name "simply scale " featured in many mags with the ESM Corsair. At the end of the day he was pushing somewhere near 20lbs with the sound system !
I love eletric power but I am old school and chargeing two 4, or 5 , 6 cells packs for each flight takes time and you can not leave them alone. Now days I am useing Heavy Duty BRCs , plus a scorpion lipo baterry back up, heavy duty connectors etc , its a science in itself. Make total sence to me in the 6 cell and under planes but for me and larger planes I have to look at the overall time to prepare vs flight time at the field.

One last note on sound systems , I wish someone would make the sound card for an RC Radial engine ! Nothing and I mean nothing sounds as good as a Moki going down the runway full speed!
You dont need real plance sound when you have a rc radial, sounds like a 57 Chevy in a drag race, super cool

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

People went from glow to gas because of fuel cost and than they went to electric for convenience. I have an electric sailplane that beats using a winch or hi-start. I'm one of a very few in my locale that still runs big bore 2 strokes just because I prefer the smell of glow fuel over gasoline.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks Pat
That is my main concern flight time vs overall wing loading, preflight charging etc .
I think the ESM Corsairf will need at leaste two 5 cells or two 6 cell packs.
Thats easily an hour of charging for a 5 to 7 min flight max.
I want at leaste three flights per outing and that is why I am leaning towards gas.

rgburrill

Funny that anone who knows the Corsair would think that any engine that will fit is too big. The Dual Wasp was a huge engine in the first place. After all, that is why she had the famous gull wing. And when they switched to the 4-bank Wasp it was really huge.

tevans55

LDM I have a DLE 35ra in mine. I'm using Sierra retracts and 2 3000mAH SR Batteries nicds mounted in the cowl and running into the receiver through a Smartfly bat share. I also have a TechAero Ultra ibec to turn my ignition on and off from the transmitter. With the batteries in the cowl you don't have to add much nose weight. I also have added an Earl Aune retractable tail wheel. I'll post photos and video when I get home from business trip.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks Tevans, great info. I have two options for retracts, Sierra gear supposedly designed for the CMP 71" P40 is the same gear used on the ESM 75" Corsair ?
I also have the original 3.5 esm eletric retracts.
As far the engine your set up sounds sweet but technical. I would need to do some research on the set up so pics would be appreciated.
I wish those Earl Aune tailwheels were still available, they are real master pieces .

enforcer158

My Feedback: (17)

Aloha LDM.

as far as batteries go, for example, I'm running a sig rascul 110 with a revolution 33gx and have been using a life 3200 mah battery. Just one battery running both receiver and the engine. After 3 -10 to 12 minute flights I checked the capacity of the battery to see what it had left. Suprise, suprise, I had more than 80% capacity left. FYI, I have not charged this battery for 2 months now and I checked again today and there was still 80% left. So Model airplane news was right!! I can get over 14 flights before I need to charge this battery, although I'm not going to push it.
I just though I'de share with you a battery worth concidering.
Mahalo, Mike.

drac1

My Feedback: (4)

I've been using LiFe's for a few years now without a regulator. As long as the servos are rated for 6 volts, there is no need to regulate.

I don't use a separate ignition battery either. Just run a Tech Aero IBEC from the Rx. It has a Tx operated kill switch and can regulate ignition voltage if you want as well.

MTK

If you go with gas, you may want to consider the OS GT33 assuming the model weighs less than about 14 lbs. There is nothing that needs to be done in regard to the reed cage, carburetor, spark plug, timing, or anything else. Everything you need to be successful is in the box.

Auto gas smells pretty bad so I run Avgas 100LL in all of mine. Some run Pure-Gas but that isn't available everywhere. Avgas is readily available at any local muni airport. I use and highly recommend BelRay MC1 Motorcycle racing synthetic oil at 50:1 mix. I've broken in all of my gassies on this mix (no dyno oil in any of mine, ever). An 11 oz tank run about 15 minutes

Props: This engine turns the Mezjlik 18x10 3 blader well. Or if two blades are better suited, run the XOAR 19x10 of 20x8 woody. The engine develops more torque than any other 30cc class engine so it hauls a lot of lumber. The muffler has a good throaty sound to it. Perfect for a military prop plane.

I use and highly recommend the TechAero IBEC or battery eliminator. The IBEC provides power to the ignition and is powered by the regular airborne battery pack. There is no second battery/switch requirement. The IBEC is connected to a spare channel such as retracts or other spare switch and is activated remotely at the TX. Once you use this set-up you will understand. It is safe and most convenient. No fumbling to turn another switch on and off. The built in LED (very bright even in full sun) tells you when the system is armed. Check it out at Tech-Aero Designs,com

In my set-ups with the IBEC, a 15 minute flight consumes around 220 milliamps. My airborne battery is a single regulated 2s LiPo of 2000 milliamp capacity. I get 75 minutes of flying per session and stop when the battery reaches 7.5 volts. A single 2s LiFe battery should work as well and require no regulation.

I've got close to 200 hours of operation overall over the past 4 years (2 engines) using the OS GT33. That's around 1000 flights.

A terrific and powerful little mill. Hand starting is a challenge early in the learning curve, so A starter is recommended. It has rather high compression but a Dynatron has the guts to turn it over. I use a 4 cell Lipo to power the starter. After awhile, the starter won't really be needed but it helps in those first inexperienced two dozen runs.

Hope this helps you. If you need more details, contact me directly at my email. Also, I have a whole thread sticky in the Pattern Forum on this engine's trials, tribulations and successes.

oliveDrab

I have an ESM Bearcat (71" span) that I installed an EFlite Power 160 electric motor in. I hung the 10S Lipo's on the firewall to get it to balance on the CG - came out perfect. Had 5 flights on it, plenty of power, nice flying plane. But then I decided to convert it to gas. I suppose I didn't like removing the prop/cowl to get at the Lipos. So I installed a Zenoah G38. Have started the motor and taxi'ed the plane but haven't flown it yet because I had to pull the engine off to replace the spring starter and also had problems with the flaps which were plugged into a y-connector. Removed the y-connector and gave each flap servo it's own channel. Hope to have it flying before winter arrives.

I don't really see anything wrong with large electric planes except for:
1. shorter flight times - 7 minutes
2. access to Lipo's

Hope to install a Rimfire 50 or 60 w/12S Lipo's into a large plane, maybe an ESM FW-190 Dora 9. Or a F7F Tigercat with twin electric motors.

Rocketman612

My Feedback: (85)

gas

oliveDrab

electric

raptureboy

Tom hit it right on the nail,both have their learning curves and advantages and disadvantages, but for large scale aircraft gas just makes more sense to me. Even in 60 size planes, a 20cc gas engine mounts just like a glow engine. My PT 17 biplane takes about 10 min to set up and with the DLE 20 I can go 15 min on 12 oz of gas. When you look at the cost of large lipos and the time involved in charging and the short flight times you get gas is more economical. I use LiFe batteries also and they are much easier to use than lipos or Nicad or NmH. Chances are your using a lipo charger that also will charge life batteries. Check out hangtimes for more info on batteries and slick setups for charging and using LiFe batteries. www.hangtimes.com

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Guys all great info, this is not a battle of eletric vs gas , for me the 110 and smaller planes in eletric are awesome and plug and play is just to easy and too reliable.
But as stated I think economy of scale plays into account as you go larger . I see the ESM corsair based on mutiple build threads no scale to high scale mods in the area of 16 to 20 lbs .
It can be light at 16 and a hog at 20lbs .
I cant see this plane on eletric i know its been flown and flown well but as stated its at leaste two 5 cell or two 6 cell packs.

Matt great post but I think this plane will be too heavy for your suggested set up, I dont see it comeing in under 14 lbs .
Would love to know more about your set up but think it may be too small

jmiles1941

gas always , while you fly for 15 min and charge for 30 min I will still be flying , I can get 7 full 15 min flights out of my ignition battery and rx battery . so while you are charging or changing batteries I simply fuel up and fly , that is a big plus

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Well leaning towards a 35 RA or 55, all based on weight. I will take the plane to the Hobby Shop for size consideration but its comes down to how much needs to be added for CG.
These ESM planes were not designed with the best rc engineering in mind.

tevans55

https://youtu.be/NRcuTz0PqBo?list=LLJ3L4b2dcXJW2Bh1vsFEn6A Here is a video albeit not great quality but you can get an idea of the speed/performance of the DLE 35ra. It is plenty of engine for this plane.

Here are a few shots of the plane as promised. Also Earl is still making these tail wheels. [email protected] is his email. He will make this tailwheel for you if not in stock.

MTK

If the GT33 won't work in this set-up then the 35RA will be worse. I have both engines and the 33 is stronger than the 35 by quite a bit. If the model weighs in at 20 lbs, then the 55 (I have 2 of these also) is the better choice. But I'm curious; the model has a 75" span. What's the area? It sounds to me that wing loading will be high

Let me clarify LDM.... the 14 lb limit is there if you want serious performance our of the model. If you just want to fly around, any of these engines has enough power