Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

I don't plan on pulling out a tape measure at the event. No matter what size is stated, there will always be something close. If you don't want to attend, that's alright. Our 1st year had 10 pilots, the second year had 22 and I believe we have more than 35 confirmed for this summer. It will be videoed by a professional and we have sponsors. If you change your mind, you are always welcome. It will be a lot of fun!

f16man

Ya it gets to the point of being too light to fly realisticly and wind is a big giveaway on what the model is made of...

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

Well, after considerable reflection, I have changed the minimum wingspan for my event to 60 inches rather than the 65 previously announced. I contacted the AMA Competition department and the change should be updated in their system within a day or two.

This should open it up to the majority of "60-size" ARF warbirds that TopFlite and Hangar 9 retail as well as many of the foam warbirds discussed in this thread.

Best regards.

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

That's a good move!
Im going to consider it for sure, I just don't want to get there an realize I cant fly anything.

Im mostly a jet guy and you need a pretty big jet to get to 60" unless its a sabre or something with long wings. Most jets have short wings.

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

My experience with the jets is limited. Should I be looking at fuse length rather than span?

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

BigTim great post as always !
The Devine kits were great and that is exactly what I am shooting for with my 82" Corsair.
I will build the kit from the inside out with wood and then line the outside with wood and light glass.
I tried really hard to get a J Devine kit as well the other name Northwest Models ( same company ) but there all gone !

f16man

Yes most all modern jets have short wingspans compared to length of fuse...........

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

Any recommendations? What fuse length takes it from the park flyer category and moves it into the next class?

chorner

It's not the fuse length... it's the move from electric ducted fans and foam, to composite and an actual model jet engine

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Lifers concern of course is establishing his event as one of the "premier" events that draw people from a wide area with exceptional models. If people drive for a day and then find that all they are seeing is another electric "foamy" they may not be as apt to return next year. I personally don't mind smaller electric or fuel models participating as long as they can do so without impacting the flying of others.

chorner

I understand, I was just "heckling" but with a point to make... as soon as you start allowing the foam stuff, the entire level of the event goes way down.

You can't call an event a "premier" event that draws people from a wide area, to come and watch electric foam toys.... a premier event is one that's showing the premier pilots, premier builders, and premier equipment that make this more a hobby... and not grown men flying a bunch of toys.

Something to consider... you degrade an event as soon as you let that crap be flown.

Joespeeder

Lifer,

Hang in there !!! Run the event so that it fits your's and your clubs desires. If your working toward building a large GS event then it sounds like your on a great path.

Early communication of your intent gives everyone a heads up. If you put in your ads info that the following years event will be 80 inch or promote some other way to highlight the direction your going it gives people time to prep and join the fun.

I've CD'd our warbitd event for the last bunch of years. We have a great time with 25-40 pilots on a 600ft grass runway.

There are many warbirds events in our area including GS specific events. So we've kept our event wide open so anyone can fly. Our rule is if it's a warbird it flys.

However, we are very fortunate that we have a large warbird group in our club and we all fly together in large packs instead of one at a time.

At the pilots meeting I let everyone know we expect them to be polite to each other. If GS planes are going up keep the foam on the ground. If foam is going up wait 6 minutes and then fly the big balsa stuff.

I've never had a problem. The pilots start to self organize and plan as they go.

You can see a wide mix of styles of warbirds at our events and me in a kilt if you search PMAC Warbird or PMAC Scale on the YouTube....

I had a newbie show up with a sport plane marked with German markings. He was very polite and asked to fly. We went out of our way to be sure he felt welcome. He'll be back with real warbirds as he advances in the hobby.

No matter which direction you go enjoy the ride. Make the event your own and if it serves the needs of your club then full steam ahead....

Have fun and make sure to post your video link here so we can enjoy the event from afar!!

Joe

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

Joe,

Thank you for your advice and input! It's always pleasant to hear from an experienced voice. If you or any members of your group would like to attend, you would be very welcome. It's a long drive, so I understand if it's not possible.

I plan to run the event this year as described, and next year going to IMAA standards. I had a few complainers in the club when I announced the minimum standards, but a little research revealed that none of the complainers had entered in the previous 2 years. I don't have a lot of time or patience for the complainers, only for the do-ers.

It will be a great 3rd year, and year 4 will be even better!

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

John, is my 1/3 scale Fokker DR-1 "foamy" welcome.

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

Charlie,

You get a free pass with whatever you bring.

Joespeeder

Thanks Lifer,

That's a very kind offer and I'd love to come down if it ever worked out.

Yup, complainers = Bad...... Do-ers = Good !!!!

I really enjoy doing weird but fun stuff at our events. People roll their eyes and laugh but that is always the bit they talk about over the winter when they mention our events. Bag Pipes, the a fore mentioned kilt, last year was free ribeye for the pilots and cans of Spam (both on the grill and as CD's choice give a ways). This year we will be featuring the Pacific Theater so Dash Board Hula Girl Bobble "hips" are some of our prizes and each pilot will receive a Greg Brady Good Luck Tiki necklace !!!!! Weird but fun and they'll remember our event.

We also have a tradition of having a very cheep 1/6 scale junk RC tank available for target practice for anyone that wants to try hitting it with dummy bombs. 1st one to hit it gets a prize.... This year we will have a Japanese Carrier instead.... Any pilot can ask the target to be placed on the field for their target attempt and as soon as they fly by we clear it from the field.

The trick is none of these special things takes any time away from flying. They bring fun and weirdness but clean airspace is what we offer....

I have many other little tricks feel free to PM me so I'm not giving up all my special sauce on the open forum.

Joe

fly24-7

Be careful. I've been to numerous warbird and classic events and have seen individual building skills that were impressive and piloting skills that were questionable. Just because someone can build an awesome model doesn't mean they're great at piloting it.

As someone who's been part of organizing and running an annual warbird & classics event, we've found the best way to manage safe flying and creating happy pilots is good flight line management.

- Ensure that "like" aircraft are flying together.
- Keep everyone flying the pattern.
- Do special flights or sessions for those who want to fly special "non-pattern" routines.
- Have rules for low passes.
- Over-stress the importance of spotters doing their jobs properly.
- Ensure clear communication for take-offs and landings.
- Stagger flying so you don't have several planes low on fuel and needing to land at the same time.
- Set clear and comprehensive flight rules and take action on pilots who are not following them.
- Don't be afraid to tell a pilot that they are no longer permitted to fly because they are not adhering to the rules. One p!ssed-off guy is a small price to pay for all the other pilots appreciation because you took action.

Our event took this "Zero Tolerance" approach and participation grew because of it. Word got around that we ran a tight ship and flying was lower stress than other events. Pilots appreciate this and it is a decision maker in attending an event. These things are far more important than the size of the planes.

fly24-7

Couldn't agree more. There seems to be a stigma out there that anything less than IMAA legal (80" WS monoplane or 1/4 scale) doesn't make for an interesting show. Furthering the problem is that there are too may pilots who feel that smaller models = inexperienced pilots. Simply not the case. I personally have a couple of 1/4 scale models that I fly at these events that are at or below 80" WS. Larger models are impractical for me and I prefer to fly 60 sized models as they're more convenient on a number of levels. I've also seen very impressive warbirds, from a craftsmanship standpoint, that are less than 80" and they fly impressively as well.

I would discourage any event organizer from using IMAA standards as a size minimum, you're excluding a number of great modelers and the public doesn't get the perspective that you don't need to spend thousands of dollars to have a great looking and great flying scale model.

TomCrump

Around here, Giant Scale is the norm for events, even if they are designated as such.

chorner

I've probably been seen to make replies that aren't quite as constructive so far but I'd like to also add I agree that size doesn't always equate to "interesting" or "great".

I've seen some extremely impressive sub 70" models that were scratch and kit built at the last warbird fly-in I attended last year. Some of the most intricate work was done on a ~65" P47, P38 and another old WWI plane and they were great to look at as well as watch fly. The smaller planes didn't fly as far out, so it wasn't too noticeably worse in terms of in-air presentation than the 80" plus sized models.

A "fond" memory of one time myself and others have had a bit of a chuckle was when one gentleman -who was too old to be dressed as such, but still under the age of 30 I hope- showed up wearing a pilots suit, then continued on to pull out a 40" wingspan foam Corsair model. I don't agree with discouraging people from wanting to be a part of an event, but everyone benefits from some clear rules and guidlines and attracts more people the next year. The guys foam Corsair sure would've looked hilarious beside my ~86" Corsair with a 7 cylinder radial... I can't imagine what that would do to attendance to see a lawn full of foam planes kicking around. You certainly don't get into 20 minute conversations with 10 people standing around a foam plane asking about the engine, and work that went into the plane. I'd consider my ARF Hangar 9 60CC Corsair as being pale in comparison to the work some of the guys put into their planes even... nevermind foam.

I think what becomes popular is in part due to what is MADE popular. If everyone becomes convinced foam is the "wave of the future" and the market is saturated with them, what will you expect the younger generation to grow up flying? On the flip side, if you focus on balsa and composite, and leave foam to just beginner "park flyer" type models, they will be thought of as just that. A beginning step, towards something much better and more fulfilling. If you can enter an event with an electric powered foam warbird... you're just lowering the standard.

My 2cents again...

fly24-7

As a former Chicagoan, I can attest that you're correct. All of the big mid-western events utilize IMAA rules. Really, most all "big" events follow this practice. Not sure that it does justice to the spectrum of great models out there. At the same time, I get the fact that very few want to watch a bunch of unoriginal out-of-box foamies fly either. My view is that if you're going to set standards for an event, you'd be better served with quality standards over requiring giant-scale size standards. I also know that my viewpoint is in the minority...

dubd

Where is the evidence that "everything is going to foam?" There have been a number of new Chinese airplane manufacturers selling RTF warbirds and jets, but that doesn't mean Hangar 9, Top Flite, and the traditional manufacturers have discontinued their wood warbirds for foam.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

a couple of things to note especially H-9 planes they sneak some foam in there to back up the balsa sheeting My H-9 P-40 has the entire turtle deck formed in foam I have seen other planes as well from China that use foam, I realize this is about strictly foam planes and I get it, but there are some seriously bigger planes out there 1700mm wingspan (67") planes that have every scale feature you could want, of course there lighter and 99% electric powered but there are also wood built up electrics also its just a power system.

I am not a event participant kind of guy even though I have brought a few planes to display at events that I have built, I am mostly a fuel user gas/glow, I just received my second foam electric model today, the first being a parkzone FW which was cute and resembled a FW190.

this plane on the other hand is impressive a FMS FW190 55" wingspan its a nice looking model for a arf, it needs some painting touch ups in a couple of areas not to fix any damage but to add some scale accuracy to it but otherwise its pretty cool looking I am looking forward to showing it off to my club and getting it flying its gotten me pumped to get back into RC again after dealing with the last couple of years worth of a family health crisis I have some free time to build and fly.


the whole its a Toy Vs. a Real RC plane argument is slowly becoming a mute point, when it comes to foam Vs.built up the gulf is really closing in the ARF world sizes are getting larger and the details are getting more accurate.

no one has to allow foam planes into a contest its there contest they can do as they please, but the fact remains foam planes are here to stay they have been around for quite some time and are getting better when there powered by electric power, as for fuel I don't see them dominating as much unless the foam is sheeted and the engine compartments are sealed off from the heat and fuel residue unless there is a development in the type of foam to make it stronger.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I am amazed at the comment that "foam downgrades and event " lol .
I have seen some ARF wood planes warbirds that leave a lot to be desired as well as home built kits.
The problem with the hobby in some areas is that some love to devide.
If you have been on RCU as long as I have you will see the following history and it's a shame but I can tell you it's not on other rc forums.
1) Scratch building is better then kit building
2) Kit building is better then ARF
3) ARFs in wood /glass are better then foam ARFs or Foam scratch build ( just see 1/4 Sparky P40 Foam for proof of the drama on this great model but it's foam lol )
So history repeats itself once again.
The reason why we have a new crop of rc kits is that there flying foamy ARFs and the reason why we have many old timers coming back is that there flying ARF warbird foamy ELETRIC planes.
So let's be open minded and appreciate actual work on the model vs just what it's made of .

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Do you also feel that other types of "limited participation" events divide us? Such as the Southeast Electric Flyin (SELF), Jet only meets, Huckfests, etc.

I think it's reasonable to sponsor an event for a specific type of model and thereby attract people to your meet who are fans of that type. I love electric scale planes...I've got far too many of them now. But, I wouldn't drive 300 miles to a "warbird" flyin if I thought all that I would see is electric foam models.