*Seagull Westland Lysander*
08-23-2016, 05:17 PM
#52
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi everyone
I flew my Lysander yesterday and I found the CG refered to the manual was not in proper position as well. I bring her back on ground with very heavy nose. So I move the CG backward around 1 inch and flew her again now she performed better performance.
I will move another inch backward and will fly her again next week after I mover all the battery rearward. I think I will build a battery box and hidding somewhere behind the rear seat.
My TP70 Torqpro engine 70cc was performed very aggressive power with 2 blades 24x8 Carbon propeller, 6200rpm static. The engine weight is 2 kg heavy so I am thinking to move the engine more close to the firewall and so I can slide back her cowl make the nose shorter hopefully she will look more realistic.
I flew my Lysander yesterday and I found the CG refered to the manual was not in proper position as well. I bring her back on ground with very heavy nose. So I move the CG backward around 1 inch and flew her again now she performed better performance.
I will move another inch backward and will fly her again next week after I mover all the battery rearward. I think I will build a battery box and hidding somewhere behind the rear seat.
My TP70 Torqpro engine 70cc was performed very aggressive power with 2 blades 24x8 Carbon propeller, 6200rpm static. The engine weight is 2 kg heavy so I am thinking to move the engine more close to the firewall and so I can slide back her cowl make the nose shorter hopefully she will look more realistic.
08-24-2016, 06:00 AM
#53
My Feedback: (125)
08-24-2016, 09:55 AM
#54
My Feedback: (24)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
09-10-2016, 07:05 AM
#56
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After some more flight I found she has a lot of adverse yaw effect so I mixed the rudder control to coordinate during the aileron turn and also decrease the down position both side of the aileron to reduce induce drag during turn, she flow easier.
I move CG 1 inch rearward from Seagull manual and I found she performed better performance during my landing but the elevator still in a bit up position by trim. So I corrected her angle of incident 5mm higher from the original hole which is around 5 degree increase and now I can remove the up position trim to neutral position.
Hope those will help all you guy fly your Lysander well
I move CG 1 inch rearward from Seagull manual and I found she performed better performance during my landing but the elevator still in a bit up position by trim. So I corrected her angle of incident 5mm higher from the original hole which is around 5 degree increase and now I can remove the up position trim to neutral position.
Hope those will help all you guy fly your Lysander well
09-10-2016, 08:49 AM
#57
My Feedback: (18)
After some more flight I found she has a lot of adverse yaw effect so I mixed the rudder control to coordinate during the aileron turn and also decrease the down position both side of the aileron to reduce induce drag during turn, she flow easier.
I move CG 1 inch rearward from Seagull manual and I found she performed better performance during my landing but the elevator still in a bit up position by trim. So I corrected her angle of incident 5mm higher from the original hole which is around 5 degree increase and now I can remove the up position trim to neutral position.
Hope those will help all you guy fly your Lysander well
I move CG 1 inch rearward from Seagull manual and I found she performed better performance during my landing but the elevator still in a bit up position by trim. So I corrected her angle of incident 5mm higher from the original hole which is around 5 degree increase and now I can remove the up position trim to neutral position.
Hope those will help all you guy fly your Lysander well
How did you measure your CG to determine that you moved it aft 1 inch? The Lysander wing shape makes traditional measurement difficult...
To measure mine I used a Xicoy CG machine and found the CG to be 140mm aft of the main gear, which is 33mm aft of the recommended 107mm... The Xicoy uses scales on each wheel and is quite accurate. I can add about 500 grams of lead to the nose to bring my CG forward to near the recommended point, and then there will be 24 ounces of fuel that is also forward of the CG, and fly it there and adjust as needed... BTW -- mine weighs 10.62Kg dry (23.3 lbs)...
09-10-2016, 04:38 PM
#58
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Galen
I don't have that Xicoy machine but I made a stronger copy of both wood plates to hang my Lysander as the manual recommended. I put a fuel tank on the CG and another reservior on the firewall to make sure there is no bubble air. After the first flight as I mentioned before, I found the elevator were trimmed up around 10mm so I move back the CG. After CG was moved I could feel on the landing is easier to flare. Anyway the elevator still a bit trimmed up which I dont like to see my model flight control stay unneutral so I corrected the angle of incident and of course all the flight control are in neutral position now.
I don't have that Xicoy machine but I made a stronger copy of both wood plates to hang my Lysander as the manual recommended. I put a fuel tank on the CG and another reservior on the firewall to make sure there is no bubble air. After the first flight as I mentioned before, I found the elevator were trimmed up around 10mm so I move back the CG. After CG was moved I could feel on the landing is easier to flare. Anyway the elevator still a bit trimmed up which I dont like to see my model flight control stay unneutral so I corrected the angle of incident and of course all the flight control are in neutral position now.
09-17-2016, 09:59 PM
#59
Zippi,
I tried to fly her, but when I did the flight controls check the left elevator started quivering so that put a stop to flying. Since then I have replaced the medium servos in the horizontal stabs with full size servos mounted in the forward fuselage. I went from the smaller 225s to the 645MG. Hope to fly her this coming week.
I tried to fly her, but when I did the flight controls check the left elevator started quivering so that put a stop to flying. Since then I have replaced the medium servos in the horizontal stabs with full size servos mounted in the forward fuselage. I went from the smaller 225s to the 645MG. Hope to fly her this coming week.
09-18-2016, 03:32 AM
#60
Zippi,
I tried to fly her, but when I did the flight controls check the left elevator started quivering so that put a stop to flying. Since then I have replaced the medium servos in the horizontal stabs with full size servos mounted in the forward fuselage. I went from the smaller 225s to the 645MG. Hope to fly her this coming week.
I tried to fly her, but when I did the flight controls check the left elevator started quivering so that put a stop to flying. Since then I have replaced the medium servos in the horizontal stabs with full size servos mounted in the forward fuselage. I went from the smaller 225s to the 645MG. Hope to fly her this coming week.
Do you have any pics of where you mounted your elevator servos up front and where the linkage exited the fuse in the rear?
09-18-2016, 11:09 AM
#61
Zippi,
I used golden rods for my linkage. Before I removed the stabilizers I drew a pencil line along the bottom of the wing. Before I cut the hole in the fuselage I epoxy and glassed the balsa where he penetration would go. Notice I used masking tape on the tube since epoxy will not bond to the nylon tube. I also made four mounting plates for each tube to attach to the internal members to keep the flexing to a minimum. The left servo moves the right elevator. The cross over angle is so shallow it lines up perfectly with the control horn on the elevator and has no binding. It was easier for me to install the mounting plated since I have the gunners cockpit opened up and the aft fuselage bulkhead removed. All I have left to do is cover the holes in the bottom of the stabs and a little painting. Hope this helps.
I used golden rods for my linkage. Before I removed the stabilizers I drew a pencil line along the bottom of the wing. Before I cut the hole in the fuselage I epoxy and glassed the balsa where he penetration would go. Notice I used masking tape on the tube since epoxy will not bond to the nylon tube. I also made four mounting plates for each tube to attach to the internal members to keep the flexing to a minimum. The left servo moves the right elevator. The cross over angle is so shallow it lines up perfectly with the control horn on the elevator and has no binding. It was easier for me to install the mounting plated since I have the gunners cockpit opened up and the aft fuselage bulkhead removed. All I have left to do is cover the holes in the bottom of the stabs and a little painting. Hope this helps.
09-21-2016, 03:17 PM
#62
Today I flew her four flights. Flight one I was nose heavy, very heavy. Since I had installed 9.5 ounces of extra lead in the nose that was expected. I used all of my up trim to compensate. On flight two I removed the weight that helped still took about two thirds up trim. Upon landing she bounced a little and nosed over on her back and broke the canopy. I have a spare and will have some heavier and more scale ones pulled. I was using air filled du-bro tires at 10psi I think this added to the bouncing problem and the landing gear is far to flexible for a 26 pound plane. In' going to see if TNG will make a stiffer carbon fiber gear. My right gear strut cover was too tight and when the gear flexed it penetrated the fuselage.
The third flight I increased the up elevator to about 30 degrees up to ensure I could hold the tail down once I landed that worked fine, but not nearly that much is needed during flight. I was still a bit nose heavy so I taped 1.5 ounces of lead to the tail wheel strut. This improved things, but still nose heavy. Since I didn't have any more lead to add to the tail I will remove the little down thrust behind my motor mount. Flight four except for the amount of up trim was fine. She is quite light on the ailerons, needs a little rudder for turning and has quite pleasing flight characteristics. Several takeoffs were made with quartering cross winds with no problem the rudder us huge and very effective. Landings are slow and predictable. With full flaps you need to carry the power all the way to the ground she slows down real nice. Wheel landings or three point are easy. I didn't do any stalls or aerobatics till I get the CG issues worked out. I will publish the control throws I used here the next time I post something.
Bottom line here is this plane is a winner.
The third flight I increased the up elevator to about 30 degrees up to ensure I could hold the tail down once I landed that worked fine, but not nearly that much is needed during flight. I was still a bit nose heavy so I taped 1.5 ounces of lead to the tail wheel strut. This improved things, but still nose heavy. Since I didn't have any more lead to add to the tail I will remove the little down thrust behind my motor mount. Flight four except for the amount of up trim was fine. She is quite light on the ailerons, needs a little rudder for turning and has quite pleasing flight characteristics. Several takeoffs were made with quartering cross winds with no problem the rudder us huge and very effective. Landings are slow and predictable. With full flaps you need to carry the power all the way to the ground she slows down real nice. Wheel landings or three point are easy. I didn't do any stalls or aerobatics till I get the CG issues worked out. I will publish the control throws I used here the next time I post something.
Bottom line here is this plane is a winner.
09-23-2016, 03:37 PM
#63
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can you please tell us where you have got the 107mm from, the manual is stating 27mm foward of the leading edge at the wing root?If so is the best C of G position too start with? The motor i am useing is the H/K 55cc 200amp esc 12c 5000.
09-23-2016, 04:21 PM
#64
My Feedback: (18)
The Xicoy CG machine uses scales under each wheel, as is done for full scale airplanes, to accurately calculate the CG. The critical measurements are, the distance between the main wheels and the nose or tailwheel, and the distance ahead (tricycle) or behind (tailwheel) the main wheels where the CG should be. From my Lysander I calculated that the tailwheel is 1170mm behind the main gear, and the CG is 107mm aft of the main gear. As mine sits right now the CG is 140mm aft of the main wheels or 33mm aft of the recommended CG... Of course the 24 fl oz. fuel tank is empty...
I will take my CG machine over to Paul's this weekend and measure where his CG is currently located now that his has flown. It appears that the recommended CG is too far forward, and I think the supplied jig is too imprecise to determine anything...
09-23-2016, 06:32 PM
#65
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for that , look foward to your finding the cg on Pauls plane I will make another ply wing root jig to allow me to suspend the plane aft of the existing .Very pleased i did not box ahead as per the instructions , this the first time I have used a forum . thanks again
Rmalcolm
Rmalcolm
10-04-2016, 08:47 AM
#67
Guys,
Do to unforeseen circumstances that I won't go into I am going to have to sell my Westland Lysander. It is due in at SIG this week. I have contacted Becky at SIG and told her to put a hold on shipping my plane out. I have already paid the shipping so if anyone is interested in buying it I could have the mailing address changed to yours. If you are interested get in touch with me ASAP. Thanks guys.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/ite...itemID=1086082
*** Update ***
SIG Manufacturing just contacted me and they did not hold the plane as they said they would. It was shipped today. This will now be for sale for local pickup only unless someone wants to pay the shipping. I will not pay shipping twice on this plane.
Do to unforeseen circumstances that I won't go into I am going to have to sell my Westland Lysander. It is due in at SIG this week. I have contacted Becky at SIG and told her to put a hold on shipping my plane out. I have already paid the shipping so if anyone is interested in buying it I could have the mailing address changed to yours. If you are interested get in touch with me ASAP. Thanks guys.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/ite...itemID=1086082
*** Update ***
SIG Manufacturing just contacted me and they did not hold the plane as they said they would. It was shipped today. This will now be for sale for local pickup only unless someone wants to pay the shipping. I will not pay shipping twice on this plane.
Last edited by Zippi; 10-04-2016 at 01:31 PM.
10-12-2016, 05:11 PM
#68
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone said the Lysander was a trainer. It was anything BUT a trainer. This aircraft had a fully movable horizontal stab. That is how it was trimmed. If you accidentally left the trim forward there was not enough elevator to save you.
The aircraft had more horsepower than a sea hurricane. And was designed as a spy, clandestine mission and spotter aircraft.
Its out board slats opperated automatically and independently of each other. The inboard slats worked with the flaps.
The aircraft had more horsepower than a sea hurricane. And was designed as a spy, clandestine mission and spotter aircraft.
Its out board slats opperated automatically and independently of each other. The inboard slats worked with the flaps.
11-03-2016, 10:54 AM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Bardufoss, NORWAY
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder if this will fit in my car. The fuselage length is fine, as are the wings, but I wonder if it might be too tall. How tall is the plane when it's sitting on the ground without wings attached?
11-03-2016, 12:01 PM
#72
Recently I have installed a Lake Microsystems Airspeed indicator in the left wheel pant of my Lysander. The system reports true airspeed. Here are a few shots of the installation. As soon as we get some good flying weather I will start the stall testing. It is pretty comforting to know your airspeed when the plane is too far away to judge the rate of closure.
11-21-2016, 05:22 AM
#73
My Feedback: (48)
Not such a good report on our Maiden this weekend. We used a CG that was 1 inch behind the root leading edge where wing joins the fuselage. Specified CG is way off. Plane was still extremely nose heavy. Not able to flare on landing resulting in a very hard nose first landing. Damage to landing gear mount, wheel pants, prop and separation of former joint where fuselage meets stringers. All is repairable and will fly again. Lot of wing twist which we thought was corrected but still required a lot of right aileron - All we had, so will have to investigate more. Will have ready for flying next season and test her again.
Friend sent video if I can figure out how to load it. Here are youtube link a friend just sent.
The plane was very unstable (Roll) until flaps were used. Flaps stabilized her roll, but just could not get her to lift the nose on apprach.
Takeoff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh52...ature=youtu.be
Landing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAC7rOQw0wE
Friend sent video if I can figure out how to load it. Here are youtube link a friend just sent.
The plane was very unstable (Roll) until flaps were used. Flaps stabilized her roll, but just could not get her to lift the nose on apprach.
Takeoff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh52...ature=youtu.be
Landing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAC7rOQw0wE
Last edited by dmyers0403; 11-21-2016 at 08:11 AM.
11-21-2016, 08:27 PM
#74
dmyers, Sorry to hear your maiden didn't go too well. I agree the cg as published is too far forward. I still haven't got it worked completely out yet. To get mine under control full up trim was required. I'm very glad I didn't use the specified control throws. Normally on first flights I set my controls to the maximum throws because you never know what you are going to run into. With a super nose heavy plane you might need a huge amount of up elevator. Notice the amount of up elevator and I'm not even flairing. I'm about to make a wheels landing. The black blob on the tail wheel strut is a two ounce hunk of lead. Also my nose is shorter than yours. I cut 2 1/4 inches out of the cowling to put it back in scale.
One thing I can warn you about is the power on stall. Simply flying level reducing power waiting for a power on stall was eye opening. It has a very fast left wing drop and is nose down in about three seconds. Recovery is quick and smooth but it sure is a heart stopper the first time she drops that wing. Make sure you have plenty of altitude before you try. Next time I get to fly I'll do the power on stalls with half and full flaps. Possibly the abrupt stall is related to the cg being too far aft.
Here is my second or third flight.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2E...sqWltiQSRaC3iw On my first landing I ended up on my back.
One thing I can warn you about is the power on stall. Simply flying level reducing power waiting for a power on stall was eye opening. It has a very fast left wing drop and is nose down in about three seconds. Recovery is quick and smooth but it sure is a heart stopper the first time she drops that wing. Make sure you have plenty of altitude before you try. Next time I get to fly I'll do the power on stalls with half and full flaps. Possibly the abrupt stall is related to the cg being too far aft.
Here is my second or third flight.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2E...sqWltiQSRaC3iw On my first landing I ended up on my back.
12-20-2016, 05:25 AM
#75
I called SIG in June 2016 and they had just sold the last of their inventory so I put one on order.
It arrived in early October and I'm just getting to assemble it.
I have a Saito FG60-R3 ready to mount on it but I'm looking for tips concerning thrust lines and CG.
I've ordered a BEST PILOTS "Sailor Malan" 1/5th scale figure from Lyle Vasser to replace the ridiculous pilot supplied with the kit.
I'm building a scale instrument panel and a scale rear gunner station to dress it up. I'd prefer to have the cockpit OPEN as is looks so much better!
Here's some images of the Fuse with a 1/5th scale Best Pilot's Pappy in the front seat. The Saito FG60-R3 is ready to mount. The ARF comes with a ridiculous 'glass cockpit' instrument panel. Clearly no research done there!
It arrived in early October and I'm just getting to assemble it.
I have a Saito FG60-R3 ready to mount on it but I'm looking for tips concerning thrust lines and CG.
I've ordered a BEST PILOTS "Sailor Malan" 1/5th scale figure from Lyle Vasser to replace the ridiculous pilot supplied with the kit.
I'm building a scale instrument panel and a scale rear gunner station to dress it up. I'd prefer to have the cockpit OPEN as is looks so much better!
Here's some images of the Fuse with a 1/5th scale Best Pilot's Pappy in the front seat. The Saito FG60-R3 is ready to mount. The ARF comes with a ridiculous 'glass cockpit' instrument panel. Clearly no research done there!
