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CARF P-51 & gyros for tail draggers

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Old 11-26-2016, 06:57 AM
  #1
luckymacy
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Default CARF P-51 & gyros for tail draggers

Happy Thanksgiving,
It just occurred to me to take advantage of the sales this weekend and order a gyro. I have no direct experience using one. If I want the most effective gyro assist on takeoffs and landing roll outs, it seems too me that I need not just the simpler Cortex gyro but the Cortex Pro with the extra channels to also connect the tail wheel servo to the gryo and not just rely on the rudder for ground control. On the other hand, it doesn't take too much speed to get the tail off the ground to render the tail wheel mute, but I'm just guessing since I haven't flown the mustang yet and therefore looking for advise from anyone with experience controlling a 45 to 50 pound tail dragger warbird using a gryo. I have talked to a couple of pilots who fly the mustang a lot in the past and each has told me they were the worst to control warbird in a crosswind they owned. Just not enough rudder authority if you build per plans.

I'm using two futaba R7008SB servos but not using SBus.


Chief's got the original gyro on sale for $210 plus another 15 to 20 percent off. I see the higher end one comes with a USB port but I haven't seen anything that takes advantage of it so far in my 'research'. Besides just future software updates, it doesn't seem needed at all to set up and run.

http://www.chiefaircraft.com/catalog...&q=3-axis+gyro


thx,
lucky

Last edited by luckymacy; 11-26-2016 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 11-26-2016, 05:18 PM
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Have you ever tried mixing rudder (rudder beimg the slave to the aileron) with aileron for takeoff and landings? Its a lot cheaper than $200.00 and a common feature on most modern radios.
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:16 PM
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Wondering why you would couple aileron with rudder for take offs and landings when the ailerons stall first..?
Ailerons are for roll and rudder is for yaw.. two different functions.
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Old 11-26-2016, 09:13 PM
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I have just started using on of these futaba units; http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGCDV&P=7 very easy to set up if you use futaba
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Old 11-27-2016, 05:06 AM
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I agree with you BobH. My thought is to help those who use the left stick mainly for throttle and forget to use rudder for what ever reason. many don't get well trained in the use of rudder and habbits are hard to break.
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Old 11-27-2016, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luft-Gangster View Post
I agree with you BobH. My thought is to help those who use the left stick mainly for throttle and forget to use rudder for what ever reason. many don't get well trained in the use of rudder and habbits are hard to break.
Habits might be hard to break but by doing a mix like this the airplane will be easier to break. What this mix will induce more is a snap on takeoff or a tip stall either-or it won't be pretty!!


For the OP a Gyro won't cure all of the issues that you are hoping it will. It will just make them more manageable. You still need to use that left stick to keep the plane going straight.

Last edited by Greg Wright; 11-28-2016 at 04:13 AM.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Wright View Post
Habits might be hard to break but by doing a mix like this the airplane will be easier to break. What this mix will induce more is a snap on takeoff or a tip stall either-or it won't be pretty!!


For the OP a Gyro won't cure all of the issues that you are hoping it will. It will just make them a bit more manageable. You still need to use that left stick to keep the plane going strai



100% spot on. Only way to really get a plane to take off straight is to learn rudder. I tried putting a 3 axis n my T-Clips and only made it worse. I finally figured out that I needed to reduce the rudder throw down to a very small movement and add in lots of expo to cure its wandering ways. I couldn't tell you how many times I ground looped it on take off. By adding the gyro it made it difficult to keep it lined up as it would fight my inputs, and I basically removed it after one flight.

On my 60 sized P-51 I have never had a rudder issue on take off, it flies nice and straight down the runway with very little rudder input. I usually hold a touch of left on the stick until the tail comes up and then relax as it picks up speed. I did find out early on that the rudder is ineffective in a strong cross wind the hard way, and found that dropping the windward wing helps. Warbirds sure dont fly like a trainer(Except my P-47), and you have to think through everything before you do it. When I first flew my P-51 it had a nasty habit of snap rolling, which led to a perfect loop into the ground on a windy day, where I discovered its lack of rudder. I went to go around and to miss a tree it was heading for, it had been pushed behind the flight line from the wind, instead of banking away, I pulled up, and the combination of full throttle and full up caused it to snap over. I have since resolved that after repairing it by reducing the elevator throw. It doesn't need much at all. Now it flies beautifully.

What I would suggest, and not being a smart@$$, get something like an LT-40 and practice flying rudder only. Disconnect the ailerons, and lock them, and fly it 3 channel. You will be surprised how quickly you can pick up rudder control that way. You can easily take off and land and fly the pattern with just rudder and elevator. Once you do that, then you will find after dialing in some expo, that the P-51 rudder is a piece of cake to use. Afterwards, you might find that LT-40 to be a fun plane for putting about the sky. I love my LT-40 and have to get the wing repaired, I wore out the ailerons, literally, the shafts from the servo are sloppy inside of them from all the hard flying I did.
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Old 11-27-2016, 07:05 PM
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Gyros are for helicopters and people who can't fly. Don't mix rudder and aileron, just learn how to use the rudder separately.
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Old 11-28-2016, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airzona View Post
Gyros are for helicopters and people who can't fly.
You sir are totally wrong about the use of Gyro's.

When they are properly set-up in a plane they are just making the planes more enjoyable to fly.

A Gyro " Doesn't fly the plane for you in anyway" ...

Even the best RC pilots in the world use them..
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airzona View Post
Gyros are for helicopters and people who can't fly. Don't mix rudder and aileron, just learn how to use the rudder separately.
Thats both inaccurate and unhelpful. If you dont wish to use gyros then don't but they have their place.
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:20 AM
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Not sure why you feel you need the pro, the original will do what you're asking.

Just plug the rudder and tail wheel in and go through the learning sequence.
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Old 11-29-2016, 09:38 AM
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If I can fly a CARF Gee Bee with a Moki 250 without a gyro then you can fly a big P-51 without a gyro.
Fly something smaller that's a tail dragger and force yourself to practice. I fly a whole tank worth of touch and goes sometimes just to practice. Fly in tough conditions not just fair weather too.
You must learn to be ahead of the plane not just reacting to it. If a pilot is kind of there and then kind of ahead of it and then behind it that's just a recipe for disaster sooner rather than later.

Fewer gadgets, better skills!
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Old 11-29-2016, 09:54 AM
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Just to add a little insight to my gyro use. I have it in a Top Flite Spitfire. The narrow gear make it a little more of a challenge when it comes to takeoff and landing. The gyro does not eliminate all of the issues, it dampens some of the squirlieness of the model. You still have to use rudder, and setting it up so that it works the way you want it too will take some time, but it does tame it a little and for those that desire its ok to get a little help.
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:27 AM
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It's a hobby, if you want to use it to increase your enjoyment then feel free to do so.

If someone else doesn't like it they don't have to fly your plane or drop condescending comments
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:00 PM
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How much gyro gain are you guys using on the CARF P-51 rudder?

Jan
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