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Ziroli P-47 92"

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Old 01-15-2018, 09:28 PM
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tgking44
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Default Ziroli P-47 92"

Getting ready to build a Ziroli P-47 92" and while acquiring all the parts & accessories, I'm trying to do the research necessary for the right items (engine, retracts, etc). I've been wanting to build this airplane for a long time, so I hope I made the right choice with the Ziroli (over the Vally or Meister). I guess time will tell.

I have to admit I'm a little disappointed about the lack of build threads on this plane. For as long as it's been around and its large popularity, I really throught there would be more threads. I've looked through all the sites (rcscalebuilder, RC Groups, etc) and still very little. Sooo... I'm hoping I can get some responses to this new thread. There has to be many of you that have built this bird, but just didn't create a thread about it...

Here's where I am now:
In addition to the plans, I've ordered most of the accessories Ziroli offers on their site (cowl, dummy engine, canopy, etc). I have those parts now. I've also ordered and am still waiting on Robart's electric gear and the wood kit from Precision Kit Cutter. I hope to have that stuff within the next few weeks.

Here's what I don't have and would REALLY like to get some input from you on:
The best engine for this bird. Designed around the G-62 in 1995, I'd really like to use one of the more modern lightweight and powerful engines available. I've been looking at the DA-100 inline twin, the Zenoah GT80 twin and the Saito FG-90R3 (90cc radial). For the DA, I have to create a really good baffling system to cool the rear cylinder and I'm not sure if the Zenoah or Saito will fit inside the cowl. Loving the sound of the Saito radial, I'd prefer to go with it, but I just don't know if it will fit inside the cowl. Yes, I have the cowl and can compare its measurements to what Zenoah and Saito have in their specifications, but I'd like to hear from any fellow modelers that have tried and had a successful install (with baffling fabrication) with either of these engines.

Servos, I've been using Hitec for over 20 years, but am considering switching to Savox due to their lower cost and good performance reputation. Has anyone else used Savox in this warbird?

Again, any input on these topics would be greatly appreciated - especially feedback on mounting the Saito 90cc radial in the cowl. Muffler options would be appreciated too.

Once I acquire all the parts to this plane, I plan to document its build on here all the way through to its maiden flight. I know things happen to all of us that require builds to stall or even halt, but I get frustrated when I see so many great build threads started but never finished. I'll get half way through reading them and then they just stop in mid-build without any updates. What's up with that?? I "plan" to not let that happen to this one!

Please respond with any comments, suggestions or technical info...

Thanks,
Glenn

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Old 01-16-2018, 09:38 AM
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Actually there are several threads.

Ziroli 92" p-47 build thread
Ziroli 92" P47 budget build
ZIROLI P-47 Warhorse almost ready for more Sorties
Ziroli P-47 Fiberglass Fuse build up
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Old 01-16-2018, 11:07 AM
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AnthonyW,

Thanks for providing the threads. With the exception of one, I've read all of them, so thanks again for the listing.

I'm actually following the first one (samparfitt) very closely. He's done a great job documenting the build and looks like he's on track to document and post it all the way to finish. I'll definitely use it for reference. For the others, I commend them for posting, but they're either incomplete or the "build" is about taking an existing airplane and repairing or upgrading it. I don't mean to knock on anyone that doesn't complete a build and/or post a detailed thread about it. Things happen in life that require us to halt or postpone our projects. That may indeed happen to me and this build, but I hope not. My only point is I wish there were more posts... and selfishly I wish there were ones that used the same components as what I'd like to use (i.e., engine).

Glenn
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:08 PM
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Hello Glenn, for scale surface on yout P 47 you can use some on "Mirce models" products:

- Mirce Finish set
- Detail set for P 47
- Extra rivets set (35000 rivets)
- Paint masc for stars and bars

Detail & Finish set - NS Modelers

Best regards

Mirce
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:45 PM
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I have run a GT80 in mine for years. Not the fastest bird, reliable as all get out. Engine level, spark plugs stick out. I was told rotated 30-40 degrees it will fit.. don't know if they used cm6 adapters or not. With the mag setup no extra weight was required for me. Good luck with the PKC iron. Yuck. My 2 cent opinion.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:48 PM
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couple of pics in my Gallery
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Old 01-22-2018, 07:17 PM
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Thanks SIMCO. Nice bird. Got any closer pics of the GT80 in the cowl? I was considering rotating it too. What prop are you using with it?

Regarding your comment about PKC and iron... I assume you mean the wood being heavy? Have you had a bad experience with them??

Thanks,
Glenn
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:14 PM
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Computer crapped out. Will post in a couple of days!
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Old 01-26-2018, 06:55 PM
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front view and spark plug ear. PKC kits are a little heavier. Over the years not missing a single piece. However I could have roofed my house with some of the skins sent.
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Old 01-29-2018, 05:37 AM
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SIMCO,

Thanks for the photos. I like the baffling construction. Very clean and simple. As for the spark plugs sticking out of the cowl, nice solution with the "doors". What is her total weight?

After a lot of indecision, I'm going to go with the DA-85. I really want to keep everything within the cowl and the 85 offers that. I'll just have to beef up the engine box to withstand the vibration... no big deal due to the extra weight needed in the nose. I also ordered a custom muffler from JTEC.

Thanks,
Glenn

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Old 01-29-2018, 08:22 AM
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Most of the Zirolis I have built are 27 to 32 lbs. I don't add any extras that I can't see flying, 50 feet and 50 MPH and every detail is lost. DA should yank it around the sky just fine, the GT80 is mostly ballast.
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:20 AM
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Okay, after waiting on the wood from the cutter for nearly 3 months (ridiculous, right!), I finally got it in. Between the hassle of waiting on the wood, work schedule and a week wasted trying to attend the Joe Nall (what a catastrophe) I finally got started on this project. The fuse crutch is built and the formers are dry fit in place.


Crutch photo #1


Crutch photo #2


Dry fitting formers #1


Dry fitting formers #2
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:50 PM
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The G-62 might be old, but you will not find a more reliable engine anywhere-period. It's plenty of power for the plane, and you need the weight anyway. If you use a DA or similiar, you will need to add considerable nose weight. The G62 uses a magneto, so no extra battery or ignition to worry about. Sometimes newer is not always better-just my opinion. Good luck on your project.
Mike O.
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:48 PM
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Mike, I appreciate your input and agree with you about the G-62. Plenty of performance for this plane, unparalleled reliability and its weight helps. You know it's the right engine when it's part of the original design. I've had a couple of Zenoahs over the years, so it's not that I don't like the G-62 or ruled it out just because it's an old design.

All that being said, I've also had several DA's and like them just as much as I do Zenoah... for different reasons. 1) I already have the DA-85 and I sold my last Zenoah many years ago, so that's done, 2)Although I like to fly scale, I also like a little (ok... maybe a lot) of speed and reserve power when I want a speed rush and 3)I may tinker with a removable firewall AND/OR active cowl flaps. That's going to add some weight to the nose. 4) All of the DAs I've had were just as reliable as the Zenoahs I've had, so I have to give both engine brands 5 stars there.

I'm also using contest grade balsa (lightweight) for the empennage, selectively weighing all wood as I go along. When she's all done, if I have to add nose weight, I'm sure I'll regret not choosing the Zenoah, but we'll see.

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Old 05-26-2018, 05:12 AM
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I have the Robart p-51 which is very similar and my friend has a Ziroli with fiberglass fuse. We both use the old 5.8 Brison which fits and flies quite well. He built one with a DA 85 which quite literally shook the plane to death. Built another and put a BME 100 in at a slant with the shaft slightly offset (you have to be told to notice). That one flies fantastic. Given the choice I would not suggest the DA 85. Plenty of power but vibrates like a paint shaker.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tgking44 View Post
Mike, I appreciate your input and agree with you about the G-62. Plenty of performance for this plane, unparalleled reliability and its weight helps. You know it's the right engine when it's part of the original design. I've had a couple of Zenoahs over the years, so it's not that I don't like the G-62 or ruled it out just because it's an old design.

All that being said, I've also had several DA's and like them just as much as I do Zenoah... for different reasons. 1) I already have the DA-85 and I sold my last Zenoah many years ago, so that's done, 2)Although I like to fly scale, I also like a little (ok... maybe a lot) of speed and reserve power when I want a speed rush and 3)I may tinker with a removable firewall AND/OR active cowl flaps. That's going to add some weight to the nose. 4) All of the DAs I've had were just as reliable as the Zenoahs I've had, so I have to give both engine brands 5 stars there.

I'm also using contest grade balsa (lightweight) for the empennage, selectively weighing all wood as I go along. When she's all done, if I have to add nose weight, I'm sure I'll regret not choosing the Zenoah, but we'll see.
Have to agree with you about DA-I have had several DA-100's, and they all ran flawlessly as well. Now the DA clones, (DLE, etc), in my experience are hit or miss. Some run good-some are crap.
That's why I always went with the US made DA's, even though they cost a bit more.
-Mike
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:44 AM
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Larry

When did your friend acquire the DA-85 he used in his 47? When DA released the original 85, it was a paint shaker. They offered upgrades to its design for a couple of years until the new version was released (not sure when that was) - all to address the vibration issues. I just purchased the one I have, so hopefully it wont rattle as bad as the original. If it does though, and other guys are still having vibration issues with it - especially on a warbird - I'd like to hear about it and will absolutely consider another engine.

Also, as I stated a while ago, I'd much prefer a twin, but I couldn't find any gas twins that would fit without adding bubble blisters to the cowl or modifying its look in any way.

Glenn
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:49 PM
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Mike, we're in complete agreement.
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:00 AM
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Had a few hours over the weekend, so added more wood to the fuse's frame. Tailwheel brackets and wing saddle are installed.

Slowly coming along...


I think I could have added one more clamp.


Maybe not...
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Old 05-30-2018, 06:30 AM
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My friends DA 85 was purchased two years ago. He has a Ziroli he built over 10 years ago with a Brison 5.8 in it. No problems and great performance. I have a Robart with a Brison 5.8, no problems. I think that DA tried to pare the weight down in the 85 since it is a pretty light engine for it's size. Back in the olden days Webra and Hirtenberger did the same thing with their pattern 60s. I still have a Webra Speed 60 that runs like stink and you have to check all the bolts after each flight because of vibration! My friend sold his DA 85 after it shook apart a Robart 47 and caused it to crash. He built another one and installed a BME 106? at an angle after seeing the same thing done by Evan Quiros at War Birds Over the Rockies. The engine center line is slightly lower in the cowl but if you install the fake motor correctly it is hardly noticeable. The performance and sound is awesome!
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:06 AM
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Thanks for the info, Larry. You've now got me concerned. I've had several DA's, but never the 85... and this would be my first time using a DA on a warbird. I'm not familiar with the Brison 5.8 either, but have always heard good things about them. All this vibration stuff is exactly why I wanted a twin! I have some time before I start working on the engine box, so I'll have to ponder this one for a while! Thanks again.

Glenn
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:22 PM
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Added a few stringers to the bottom. Also chose to alternate the front-end stringers with strips of plywood vs balsa. I like the idea of a little more strength to the front (between F1 and F2).



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Old 06-16-2018, 08:41 PM
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Chipping away (literally) at her.

I think I'll start working on the tail feathers before doing anything else to the fuse. I plan to hide the linkages, so I need the feathers built.

You realize how big she is when you start planking.


I need the tail feathers before doing anything else to the fuse.
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:31 PM
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Hey guys, planning the construction of the elevator and ziroli calls for 1/4" music wire to join the elevators. That seems really thick (and therefore heavy) to me. I've seen where others have used 5/16", primarily because 1/4" is so hard to bend. What are your thoughts on this? Should 5/16" be sufficiently stiff? And, if I do decide to go with 1/4", what's the easiest way to bend it? I don't have a wire bender, so I'm thinking about purchasing one to have on hand. I know i could put it in a vise and use some elbow grease to bend it, but having a wire bender would be handy...
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:03 PM
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dual servos-one for each half. cheap insurance
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