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TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Old 12-01-2003, 04:35 PM
  #1  
F2G-1
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Default TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Purchased TF corsair kit 2 weeks ago. Kicked around idea of converting it to F2G (sporting Bob Odegaard #57 paint scheme), and while i was surfing/researching, found RCU forums and all you hose-nose bent-wing brute-whistling death fanatics! What a great site! I must have read every corsair related post from the last 6 months!
Great stuff!

Now to the business end, here's what I have in mind for the basic set-up. For power, thinking about RCV 120, swinging the biggest 3 or 4 blade as possible (I hate it when i see a beautifull scale plane with a beautifull scale cowl swinging an unscale prop that only hangs 1/2" outside the cowl!) My only concern with this powerplant is what the 2:1 ratio and larger dia and pitch prop will do to the flight (especially take off) charachteristics. Knowbody wants a warbird that upon take-off flips itself on its back, even when good throttle managment is employed. I guess its a swap, bigger prop=RCV engine=more torque roll. Maybe I'm thinking about it too much? Standard 120 4 banger better choice? Any input is appreciated.
(Hurry up though, caught the wife looking at RCV website! Santas coming!) Maybe I can talk her into a new 9c Xmitter too!
Retracts?- Yep, and thanks to you guys, I dont have to screw around with the 615's! Sierra here I come.(I gotta call that guy! Hell, I ought to visit him, his shop is only 20 min from me. has anybody got theirs yet?) For controll: standard BB servos on each surface 2-Flaps, 2- Ailerons, 1 rudder, 1 elevator, 1 throttle, 2000 MAH power supply? Sound ok?

Now for the F2G conversion, heres what i've been thinking:
for the fuse behind the canopy, Reshaping (cutting down) formers F-7 & F-8 so that its a straight line thru the front of the windscreen to the base of the vert. stab. (anybody got any scale cross sections?) As far as the canopy, hopefully there is a 1/8 scale p-47 or ?scale p-51 someones making that might fit the bill with some modification, or if all else fails, i'll have to mold my own.
It looks like the front windscreen is the same on both the F4U and F2G's? CorsairJock, you out there?
Some F2G's during the cleveland air race era sported the F4U tail, so depending on which one I model this project after, may/maynot alter shape. (whichever tail I do, you can bet your tailhook it'll have some ply in it ala corsairjock's mods!)

Now this is the tricky part - cowl and forward fuse. Any ideas?
From what I can tell from diagrams and photos from Flight Journal Corsair issue, the forward cowl of both planes are the same diameter, the difference is that the F2G nose is straight through to the intake,and continues from the top of the intake straight to the windscreen, where the F4u nose has a slight angle from the front of the cowl , straight to the windscreen. This makes it appear as if the F2G has a smaller diameter cowl? (jock? help?)

So lets say I enlarge/reshape F4, fashon sub former between F4 & F3 to facilitate scale exhaust cross section, blend the cowl ring flush, fashon some cowl flaps just aft the leading edge? Look long enough? Maybe. Whats nice about the TF kit is how the Top/Bottom of the fuse formers are seperate. (probably shoud cut some blanks of the top ones just in case)

Ive spoken enough, what are your thoughts?
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Old 12-01-2003, 07:53 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Maybe I'm thinking about it too much?
Yes.

Hell, I ought to visit him, his shop is only 20 min from me. has anybody got theirs yet?)
If you can visit his shop then do all these guys waiting for a set a favor, drop by and see if they exist!


For controll: standard BB servos on each surface 2-Flaps, 2- Ailerons, 1 rudder, 1 elevator, 1 throttle, 2000 MAH power supply? Sound ok?

I can see why modelers would put two servos on the flaps, it's easy and it won't hurt flight characteristics to much. Why two servos for aileron control? All these "modifications" being made to smaller models by adding a servo in the wing tip for each aileron is the wrong thing to do, especially in the Corsair. It's very important to keep the wing tips as light a possible.



for the fuse behind the canopy, Reshaping (cutting down) formers F-7 & F-8 so that its a straight line thru the front of the windscreen to the base of the vert. stab. (anybody got any scale cross sections?)
The TF kit is way off scale anyway, so you really couldn't use a scale cross section. Just cut them down, round them off and you'll be as close as you can get with that kit.


hopefully there is a 1/8 scale p-47 or ?scale p-51 someones making that might fit the bill with some modification, or if all else fails, i'll have to mold my own.
Again since we are talking stand way off scale (throw in a squint) the TF P-47D canopy would be fine. You just might want to trim the bottom a bit.

the forward cowl of both planes are the same diameter

The front cowl ring is basically the same as the early Corsairs, everything from there back is different.



So lets say I enlarge/reshape F4, fashon sub former between F4 & F3 to facilitate scale exhaust cross section, blend the cowl ring flush, fashon some cowl flaps just aft the leading edge? Look long enough?
I'm not familiar with the TF kit, but I would say cut the front off at where the front of the cowl flaps will be on the F2G. Then build a plywood square box to extend the engine and hold the fuel tank.

Just my thoughts

Luke
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Old 12-01-2003, 09:57 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Here's a little motivation: http://warbirdaeropress.com/Photo%20...ages/F2G-1.htm
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Old 12-01-2003, 10:08 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Thanks for your input Luke. It is appreciated.
I will give sierra a visit, might even sneak some picts if they let me.
I'm in the process of modifying the plans right now, to see what it might look like.




Ted
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Old 12-01-2003, 10:17 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Nice!!



Thanks for the link.


Ted
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Old 12-01-2003, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

If you want to swing that scale prop you might consider the RCV 1.20. It's capable of turnig a large four blade prop. 15.5x12 Easily !!! You can check them out at www.rcvengines.com With the extra long cowl that you'll be building it should fit easliy. [&:]
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Old 12-01-2003, 10:56 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Ted,
I'm putting an RCV90 in my TF Corsair and could not be more pleased with this engine so far. Just finished breaking it in with a Zinger 18x12 prop turning 4500 rpm's and it's not leaned out yet will try for a couple hundred more rpm's. Starts on the first or second flip. The finished plane will have an MAS 20x12 prop cut down to 19x12. The engine was sent to Otto Kudrna for refinements that make it run smoother, cooler and quieter. Otto has been great to work with. Clarence Lee reviewed both the 120 and 90. The 120 only turned the 20x10 prop 300 rpm's faster so for this and the increased risk torque rolling on takeoff I'd use the 90.

I'd pay real money if you could light a fire under Darrell to get those gear out. Luke's comments are on target as usual.

I went the other way using a single hi-torque servo for flaps with dual Hitec 85's for the ailerons.

Sounds like your going to have a nice project please post photos and give updates. Pete
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Old 12-02-2003, 03:03 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Pete,

Tell more about the engine mods. Was it very expensive? I would definitely be interested in Ottos services. You are right, 300 rpm might not be worth the extra torque and weight. Would be curios to see how both these engines performed with 3 or 4 blade props. Have a link to Clarence Lees Review?

Spoke with Darell today, and as expected, he is SWAMPED with orders for pre-existing designs that have to be shipped before Xmas. His intentions are to get some of the new units put together and shipped by the end of the month, but he still needs to make more parts for the rest. I really didnt feel it was my place to put any extra pressure on him, being so new to this particular situation. I did however stress upon him how some pictures might relieve some anxious pilots.

Thanks,
Ted
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Old 12-02-2003, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Ted,

If you have searched these threads then you know I am partial to the Royal 1/8 scale Corsair. I am currently working on an enlargement of these plans with a complete parts sheet. It will be 1/6 scale with a wing of 82". I am also drawing the plans for the F2G conversion of the Royal plan. I want to be able to build a 1/8 scale version as well as a larger one. I am working with another modeler who is going to be doing all of the scanning and printing of the plans so that part is not a problem. Here is a low res version of the F4U-1A (in RED) and the F2G (in BLACK) for comparison.

Luke
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Old 12-02-2003, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Ted,
Otto reshapes the combustion chamber and reworks the gears for a better mesh. Here is the link to his website that tell all of the mods and their cost. hometown.aol.com/condorusmc1/webpage_rcv.html

Clarence Lee did the RCV90 review in Sept,02 and the 120 in Sept,01 both in RCM. If your a subscriber you can login and get them on the web.



Luke,
Would love to have a set of complete plans of your 82in Corsair. That's about as big as I can go for the foreseeable future. Let me know when they may be available.

Pete
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Old 12-02-2003, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Yeeahaw, I can't wait for the mods for an F2G in 1/8th scale.. if anyone can do it, Luke can!!!

Make the mods for the OLD SKOOL #57 though, with the huge air scoop!
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Old 12-03-2003, 02:05 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Would love to have a set of complete plans of your 82in Corsair. That's about as big as I can go for the foreseeable future. Let me know when they may be available.
You got it Pete, I'll let everyone know when I get them done.

Wil, You want to build a race Corsair?! I am just going to make the stock F2G for now, if you want the huge scoop get a large chunk of balsa and start carving!


Luke
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Old 12-03-2003, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

ORIGINAL: dionysusbacchus

Wil, You want to build a race Corsair?! I am just going to make the stock F2G for now, if you want the huge scoop get a large chunk of balsa and start carving!


Luke

Eventually, I would like to, YES!

I've got a Royal kit and a Marutaka one.. so I'll use the first for the VF-17 F4U-1A and the other for the air racer #57 I've finally got enough research material on both.. just awaiting some decent 3-views of the racer that someone here promised me
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Old 12-03-2003, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Luke,

Where did you find the F2G scale drawings?
Reason I'm asking is I'd like to find them, adjust scale as needed, and lay them over the TF plan and figure out what area/areas need the most attention and what modifications would be the most practical. Do you have these in a format compatible with AUTOCAD LT ? My Goal is to not have to squint too much![&:]

One of the TF kits scale inaccuracies is its obviously longer than scale nose, which should be advantageous in a F2G application as the F2G nose is aprox. 1' longer.

I visited you web site today, and let me just say "W[:-]W"! Excellent craftmanship and ingenuity !

Thanks

Ted
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Old 12-03-2003, 06:23 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Ted,

Those are just some drawings I got from a book, they are very accurate, or close enough for me anyway. They match the Royal plan perfectly. I'll send you a copy. Florian Kuehni here on RCU is working on the cad drawings on his project, I have them but I said I would not hand them out. Send him a PM and see what he says.

Thank you, glad you liked my web site, it was fun making it and it's great so many enjoyed it.

Luke
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Old 12-03-2003, 09:09 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

whee
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Old 12-03-2003, 09:22 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Whoa Mama!!!!!!!!! Ask and ye shall receiver!!!!!!!

Where'd you find those? (save me the hunt)

Thanks,

Ted
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Old 12-03-2003, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Doh! I never bookmarked the sites when I found them.. just clicked and saved
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Old 12-03-2003, 10:31 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

The head on view is wrong in the first picture Wil, it shows the wrong wing intakes. Other than that, nice little collection!

Here are a few of the canopy, it does look like a p-47D canopy sort of.
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Old 12-04-2003, 03:41 AM
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Florian Kuehni
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Guys
Back on the Forum again (been busy lately).
To bring light into some of the rumors around...
... I AM working on CAD drawings of an F2G-1-racer. The problem is that I had to start from (bad) 3-views of a stock F2G (D&S-book) where some areas are completely wrong (dionysos already pointed the intakes out). Now for the racers. If you look at all the modifications you have to decide for one particular model BEFORE you even draw the first line. Everyone of them looks a bit different. I decided to go on with Race#57 in it's actual configuration. I have some revised CAD 3-views in AutoCAD format BUT without cross-sections. Here comes stage two of my "biggest-scale-project-ever". Dionysus knows the whole story about it, I originally wanted to modify the Z-plans to suit my needs, after some time I realized that I have to draw a completely new plan. Pretty advanced on that one, the fuse and most of the formers (Cross-sections!!!) are drawn.
I don't say that they are 100% scale, it's the best I could do from photos and with regards to make the whole thing "buildable" at all.

If any of you want these drawings (though unfinished)-->PM me and we can arrange something. But as I said, I don't take any responsibilities for accuracy although I think these drawings are closer to scale than what is generally available.

Flo
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Old 12-04-2003, 05:37 AM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

ORIGINAL: dionysusbacchus

The head on view is wrong in the first picture Wil, it shows the wrong wing intakes. Other than that, nice little collection!

Here are a few of the canopy, it does look like a p-47D canopy sort of.
Luke, yeah I noticed that there were some minor discrepencies throughout the 3-views I've accumulated.. didn't notice it on that pic though so thanks for pointing it out!

Nice canopy pics to add to my collection!

And now for my prized #57 image.. the one that actually made me fall in love with it! TAA-DAA!
(I'd give my left NUT to have Luke custom build this baby for me )

In case people didn't notice, three blades of the 4-bladed prop were black and the fourth was painted white apparently to "make" it look like it was spinning slower? Other than that, I love this little drawing.. can't really place it, but the tail gear area looks a bit wrong I think.. there's something about the gear doors that is left out or something? Help me out, Luke!

3nJ0y.

P.S. - Florian.. when you're finished with the drawings, I'd like a copy too!
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Old 12-04-2003, 08:02 AM
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Florian Kuehni
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Stompah
Yep, your No1 on my list...[8D]

Just a few comments about your #57 pic and the missing items.
I have a pic of the early 57 attached which shows the most obvious differences. These are:
[ul][*] The missing thing on the tail gear is most likely the fairing behind it. [*] The big scoop and the cowling should form a straight line along the cowl. I also don't like the overall shape of the scoop[*] The bottom of the cowl should not be not exactly straight, it is slightly curved[*] The location of the cowl flaps relative to the leading edge of the wing is wrong[*] I think the artist just modified a pic of a "normal" Corsair, because it shows the wrong radiator intakes (bit of a nuance this one)
[/ul]

Didn't check the overall shape, I guess Luke's eye is the better choice for this topic...
Back to the drawing board now...

hmm.. promised you a pic...
Flo
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Old 12-04-2003, 03:32 PM
  #23  
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

In case people didn't notice, three blades of the 4-bladed prop were black and the fourth was painted white apparently to "make" it look like it was spinning slower?

Hi

I have an on-line game I play and one of the people that I play against was a Mechanic on that bird. He sent me a pic of it and I had mention the white blade on it.

What he told me. It was for safety reasons. It was so that you could tell that the prop was spinning.
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Old 12-04-2003, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

ORIGINAL: F4U Killer

In case people didn't notice, three blades of the 4-bladed prop were black and the fourth was painted white apparently to "make" it look like it was spinning slower?

Hi

I have an on-line game I play and one of the people that I play against was a Mechanic on that bird. He sent me a pic of it and I had mention the white blade on it.

What he told me. It was for safety reasons. It was so that you could tell that the prop was spinning.

DUUUUUDE!!! You play with the mechanic who worked on it?!?! You *MUST* score us some pictures!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, if he does in fact have any that aren't already on the 'Net hehe.. and as to the white blade being used for safety reasons, I guess he's the expert!

Cheers,

Wil

P.S. - Thanks for that analysis, Flo! You and Luke have both got the 'eye'.. I'm envious! But I'm studyin' hard!
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Old 12-07-2003, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: TF F4U to F2G Conversion

Nice Picture, and Flo is right on. But another big flaw is the line at the top of the fuselage:
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