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F2G Corsair Build

Old 04-30-2004, 04:27 PM
  #76  
shupack
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

nebraska, yeah..... plenty of flying spots though. no more military, civilian life for me. we (well, my wife) just had a baby, and we're moving into our first house this weekend, so it'll probably be a while untill I get back to work.
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Old 04-30-2004, 10:04 PM
  #77  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

nebraska, yeah..... plenty of flying spots though. no more military, civilian life for me. we (well, my wife) just had a baby, and we're moving into our first house this weekend, so it'll probably be a while untill I get back to work.
Yea, I can understand that. Babies can keep you very busy! No hills in Nebraska are there? Lots of open spaces if I remember, so you should have a good flying site for sure. No building for you, ok... well you can just sit back and enjoy my build I guess! Now a few little updates:

As I said before I was planning on opening up the air intakes on the wings. I do hate non-functioning stuff on my planes, you know me if it's got a tail hook then it must work! Sliding canopy, must work! I hate fake scoops on cars too[:'(] Doing this will add a lot of realism, and I’m hoping that when I put the little deflectors in there that when air rushes through it will make a whistle! I glued the ply sub leading edge on and the balsa centerpiece. As I said before I used plywood so that I could mount the retracts as far forward as possible and I needed the reinforcement for the functional intakes. For the intakes I just used a balsa block on one end in typical balsa basher style, then just some rolled 1/64 ply on the other.


The ailerons need to be in and working perfectly, as mine are now. The setup shown here is typical Dion style, simple, light, easy to install and no hatches or wires hanging from the bottom of the wing! All that is needed now is to install some extra supports where the flaps will be located, and then I’ll be able to sheet the top of the wing. The only area not sheeted at this time is over the retract bay.

Dion
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Old 05-01-2004, 10:51 PM
  #78  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build

Sheeted the outer panels and some of the inboard section. I had to stop sheeting to plan and prepare for the flaps.

Here you can see the wing bolt block in the center section. Also the small strip added that marks the cut I’ll make for the flaps. This strip will keep the sheeting from warping once it’s cut. Behind that I added a 1/8 support strip. The balsa on the flaps will be cut back to this strip and capped with 3/8 balsa to form the rounded edge shape.

The flap area can then be sheeted. Yes, more bell cranks! The area around the bell cranks will stay open until the flaps are cut capped and hinged. Notice the position of the cranks, this will give each flap the same travel.

Another look at the wing, it’s still glued to the table, not much left to do now and I’ll be popping it off of there. Then I can start on that fuselage…yes! Daddy like!

Dion
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Old 05-02-2004, 11:12 AM
  #79  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

Luke

You are truly an artist!

I'm still waiting on the "Professional Corsair Building" picture CD Should be in stores soon, yes?

Kerry
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Old 05-02-2004, 04:14 PM
  #80  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

ORIGINAL: Maiden Voyage

Luke

You are truly an artist!

I'm still waiting on the "Professional Corsair Building" picture CD Should be in stores soon, yes?

Kerry
Thank you Kerry! Glad ya like it so far and thanks for dropping in! I like the term balsa basher better though! Don't hold your breath for that CD!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I drew a centerline on the table and blocked the fuselage up.

I use small scrap sticks with the centerline drawn on them to make sure the fuselage is straight.

The nose of this thing is a little tricky. I made another piece called F-4B, it's just the top of the original F-4. The top scoop will cover most of this area anyway.

I glued on the stock F-16 sidepieces. Man when you start bending that stuff around the fuselage it starts wanting to go all kinds of ways!
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Old 05-02-2004, 04:23 PM
  #81  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

A couple more pictures. I removed it from the jig and now it's ready to have the tail wheel fitted, so yes another Corsair tail wheel tutorial. This one is minus a tail hook so that will make it a little easier to build.

Next picture, if you squint, stand back about 10 feet and use your imagination you can see the F2G emerging! Yea!

Dion
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Old 05-02-2004, 04:27 PM
  #82  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

Man Luke, I can really see the MAJOR discrepancies in the TF corsair Fuse When I compare up the Aft formers to the formers you are using. seems the TF designers weren't too worried about it But hey with some minor Mods the TF is pretty decent looking BUT your work is AMAZING!!!!!!! very nice sir. It is good to see someone with an eye to scale accuracy. Too many scale airplaneshave wierd deviations from scale outlines. yours looks just about perfect.
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Old 05-03-2004, 05:36 PM
  #83  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

ORIGINAL: US185Damiani

Man Luke, I can really see the MAJOR discrepancies in the TF corsair Fuse When I compare up the Aft formers to the formers you are using. seems the TF designers weren't too worried about it But hey with some minor Mods the TF is pretty decent looking BUT your work is AMAZING!!!!!!! very nice sir. It is good to see someone with an eye to scale accuracy. Too many scale airplaneshave wierd deviations from scale outlines. yours looks just about perfect.
Thanks amiani Yes the TF Corsair uses flat sided formers, just rounding them would not help either because they are the wrong shape on top. Most Corsairs that I have seen look like they were just drawn free hand. But they have a purpose, give the masses a plane that looks like a Corsair. This works for the majority of people, cover a Sig Kadet in yellow Monokote and you will have people say "nice Cub"! Learn to tread lightly around here when you talk about scale outline, even if it was the original intent of the designer to make a semi scale plane, it's weird but it's considered a slam to bring that point up. Just about perfect, ok!

I’ve been working on the scale tail wheel retract. It is mostly made out of Printed Circuit Board and some brass. When I made my last one I didn’t take very good notes so the drawings I have from that are not very helpful. I’m updating them now to make it much easier for others that may want to attempt building one. Remember this is an F2G land based tail wheel so it has no tail hook or associated levers, but I will show those on the plan.

I printed the patterns on card stock and traced them on the PC board, but all your holes first on the drill press.

Next picture shows most of the parts needed all ready for assembly. Some brass pieces are not shown.

The parts for the shock will take the most time depending on the equipment you have in your shop of course. The shock piston is machined from ¼” aluminum rod. (this can be done on a drill press) A small brass ring to the right is slipped over the bottom of the shock piston, this slides in the brass shock base just at my finger tips.
Partially assembled, the spring will be held in with a small brass pin that goes through the shock base. The top shock support is shown at the top right.

More tomorrow when I put it all together.

Dion
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Old 05-03-2004, 08:04 PM
  #84  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

Luke,
I can see the SMOKE from your garage up here in Georgia Boy you build fast. Looking super as usual. What are you planning for engine? A four stroke would be sweet.

Pete
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:44 PM
  #85  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

ORIGINAL: Rocketman612

Luke,
I can see the SMOKE from your garage up here in Georgia Boy you build fast. Looking super as usual. What are you planning for engine? A four stroke would be sweet.

Pete
Thanks Pete, yea I’ve been going pretty fast on the easy stuff but it’s fixing to slow down here pretty soon! The harder parts are the flaps cowl and canopy. Four strokes are nice, but I want to keep it all in the cowl. It will be an upright engine installation too so I don't want the valve covers sticking out! This is my last small Corsair for a while, so I just want to get it done using parts and engines that I already have.

Speaking of flaps, if anyone can show me a good picture of the inner most flap hinge next to the fuselage I would really appreciate it. Juice, you took some excellent pictures of the F4U-1D, but unfortunately none show this area.

I can’t show every step on the tail wheel construction, to many pictures! I have taken some and will share them, I don’t think many will attempt the tail wheel project anyway. Those that do will have the mechanical ability, so these pictures will assist those folks.

The first picture shows the major portion assembled.

Next is a picture of my fancy jig for the wheel forks!

Here you can see how I hold the parts together for soldering, notice the brass brackets on the corners. Drill a hole in the center for the brass control rod and then remove it and solder the backside of the corners.

Here you can see the control rod soldered into the top of the wheel forks.
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:47 PM
  #86  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Tail Wheel

Soldering the shaft on top of the forks may seem tough, but it can be easily centered by placing small hex nuts over the control rod, then sliding the tube over that. After you solder it on the hex nuts can be taken out.

This shows a small PC board piece that holds the wheel from bouncing up and down.

When the wheel is pushed up into the main assembly a small piece of brass tube is cut to go over the control rod. Then the control horn is soldered on top of that. I will have drawings that show these parts. Everything is coming together great on this one, it's pretty straight.

Dion
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Old 05-06-2004, 04:21 AM
  #87  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Tail Wheel

Luke
Are u doing anything else than building Corsairs throughout the day? [8D]

For the innermost Flap hinge: It's inside the fuse, that's why u don't see any pics of it...

Flo
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Old 05-06-2004, 04:56 AM
  #88  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!



Hehe... Did you honestly think, even for a fraction of a second, that i wasnt watching!!!???

Yeah, right!

I cant resist this stuff Luke!

How are ya bud?? I have been quiet and stupidly busy, but watching from the shadows so
i do apologise for not having said anything for so long...

RCU is my only RC indulgence left, as i have sold everything in preperation for becoming a Canadian, only
to be stalled by red tape... this time tomorrow i will be deep over the pacific, winging my way back
to her for support in a time of need.
Before you guys hassle me about being whipped, this is the woman that offered, yes offered to buy me
an Iron Bay corsair for no reason other than to make me happy, but... i do have to buy the engine! *laff*

Your F2G was always going to be another awesome project mate, they just keep getting bigger and better.

Im still dying to see your Royal fly (pix or video will suffice), i have a slightly modified Kyosho F4U leaning
against my bedroom wall, taunting me daily...

I will pipe up more often and remind you your being watched young man, please continue to thrill
and captivate us 'heavy metal' freaks...

Great to see you back bud...

Take it easy..

Goose
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Old 05-16-2004, 11:05 PM
  #89  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

*bump*
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Old 05-20-2004, 09:34 AM
  #90  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

Dion,
Do you have the Perigrine Photo Essay for the F2G-1? I have one for the P-47 and noticed on the back that they have one for the F2G. Contact info:
Perigrine Publishing
PO Box 343
Glen Head NY 11545
(516)759-1089

Keep up the good work!

Jeff Stultz
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Old 05-21-2004, 07:57 AM
  #91  
dionysusbacchus
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

Sorry about the delay folks, I was not getting any e-mails that people were responding and I had some other things to tend to, so I set it on the back burner.

Are u doing anything else than building Corsairs throughout the day?

For the innermost Flap hinge: It's inside the fuse, that's why u don't see any pics of it...

Flo
Haha, I only work on one project at a time, helps me to finish them! Yea I figured that is where the hinge was, I'm not going to go fancy with that inner hinge then, it would add to much complexity for what I am doing with this model.

Goose, nice to see you and thank you for the compliments on my balsa stick assembly technique! That woman of yours sounds great, hold her to the Iron Bay Corsair, I hear it's a great performing bird. I really want to fly my other planes including the Royal Corsair, but the runway here is terrible, that is why I'm kind of looking forward to moving after this summer, not going to say where I'm going yet!

Thanks Jeff and thank you for that info, I'll check that out.

Ok I have been doing some work on the plane, I added some resin and Micro Balloons to the wheel fork. It still needs some sanding and then a final coat of resin. Just a few more little details to add before primer. I just bent a small aluminum tube for the tie down loop.

Next I bolt it to the extra former and test fit.

Flo, I went with the original retract arm set up, it just has enough room. Most of the wheel sticks out when it is fully retracted, notice how close the retract arm is to the top stringer!
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Old 05-21-2004, 08:05 AM
  #92  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

For the top scoop on the fuselage I used original Royal building techniques! A plywood pattern for the front and some balsa blocks!

Just used the plan and marked the area for the scoop, also added some 1/8 balsa to the underside so that I could sand the correct profile.

Shows the ply cut to the shape of the opening.

A slot is cut and the piece is glued in, notice that I sanded the top of the fuselage at an angle down to the opening, check the profile on the plan.

Here it is with the balsa blocks added and roughed into shape. Notice the very long motor mounts! The fuel tank will sit on a ply piece that will be glued to the mounts, no more fuel tank in the fuselage. Now I can mount my servo's very close the the firewall.
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Old 05-27-2004, 07:35 PM
  #93  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build

Update time, not much in the way of building but I am getting the fuselage ready to close. All my radio gear pushrods and tail retract will be installed and working before I finish sheeting. I wanted my sub rudder to function as the full scale, so it must move to the right 12.5 degrees when the gear are down. I thought this would be cool because it may lower the amount of right rudder needed for takeoff.

1.In the first picture you can see my completed fin and rudders.

2. Here you can see the main rudder move while the sub rudder stays in the flight position. You can also see the 2 control levers at the bottom.

3. Rudder cranked to the left.

4. This shows the sub rudder in the gear down position, not sure if it’s at the correct throw I was just testing it.
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Old 05-27-2004, 07:36 PM
  #94  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build

Here is how the rudders work, very simple. I was more concerned with simplicity and scale looks than how the full scale is attached, actuated and hinged.

1.Rudder removed.

2.Sub rudder removed showing the control and hinge setup.

3.Here are the control wires. It’s clear now how it works. The sub rudder only has to move to the right so the hinges can be mounted off center slightly with no noticeable difference in movement to the main rudder.

4. Nice shot of the sub rudder in the gear down position.
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Old 06-04-2004, 02:58 PM
  #95  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Scale Aileron hinging

Having to catch up on my reading allowed me to stumble onto this great thread and my admiration for Luke is considerable. My question to Luke regarding scale hinging on the Corsair (as I agree that whenever possible, control linkages must be hidden) would be a concern that flutter may enter the picture. Scale speeds of a 1/6th size bird will undoubtable exceed what the full size bird flew at which could cause a flutter problem given the very small moment/arm of the horn buried in the leading edge of the aileron. This, unfortunately, could only be teated in a wind tunnel...otherwise, you'll be forced to risk the model to see if it exists or not....that's why I am always concerned about scale hinging.
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Old 06-04-2004, 07:20 PM
  #96  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Scale Aileron hinging

Wow, I almost gave up on this thread, got to boring. So Scott you revived it! For a moment anyway...

Having to catch up on my reading allowed me to stumble onto this great thread and my admiration for Luke is considerable.
Thank you, but please no admiration, I’m just a crazy barnstormer, one of the guys just like you!

My question to Luke regarding scale hinging on the Corsair (as I agree that whenever possible, control linkages must be hidden)
We think alike!

would be a concern that flutter may enter the picture. Scale speeds of a 1/6th size bird will undoubtable exceed what the full size bird flew at which could cause a flutter problem given the very small moment/arm of the horn buried in the leading edge of the aileron.
This is one of the better definitions I could find:
Flutter is a violent vibration caused by the interaction of structural flexibility, mass and aerodynamic forces. The two main causes of control surface flutter are loose and sloppy linkages and unbalanced surfaces.

I don’t know about a 1/6th model flying in full-scale air, or if that is really relevant. My ailerons are extremely light; this keeps the mass behind the hinge to a minimum as apposed to heavier solid balsa ailerons.

This, unfortunately, could only be teated in a wind tunnel...otherwise, you'll be forced to risk the model to see if it exists or not....that's why I am always concerned about scale hinging.
I understand your concerns, but my ailerons have already been tested! Yep, my 8 year old TF P-51 with solid balsa ailerons and literally hundreds of flights (I stopped counting at 250 flights 4 years ago!). I hinged it with Robart Hinge Points right down the middle (center line of the aileron), and then I cut off the control horn and hooked up the clevis at the second hole. It has one servo controlling the ailerons with 2 bell cranks. It has a very small moment/arm as you say. From hinge point to clevis center it is ½”. After 8 years the controls do have play in them too, if I pull on the aileron I can move it ¼”! With loose play of about 1/8” (slop in the linkage). The servo on the outside with a huge control horn was started by the 3D guys so they could get massive control surface deflection. Unfortunately this type of control set up has become standard for all types of models. I think some started doing it because it was easy, then gradually it was the way it had to be done because someone said so I guess! Thanks for the post Scott, this is the kind of stuff that makes it interesting!


First is a picture of the top of the aileron on my TF 1/8 scale P-51 showing the hinge location.

The next picture shows the short control horn and the 1/2" distance to the hinge centerline.

The 3rd picture shows the 9/16" space on the very thin wing of a 80" A6M2, the control rod exits the top of the wing.

The last picture shows a Chip Hyde Ultimate 3D aileron set up on a warbird.
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Old 06-05-2004, 03:31 AM
  #97  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Scale Aileron hinging

Dion

I've been too busy to do anything on my TF Corsair for a while, but I've been following your threads consistently, I've learnt so much from them and I must thank you for that.
The scale aileron hinge system - the upward moving aileron has its 'nose' go down into the airstream under the wing. Does this scoop air up through the slot between the wing and the aileron and up over the aileron, or is that gap minimized to prevent that?
It seems contrary to everything I've seen, you know 'always seal the hinge lines to stop air leakage, the controls will be much more positive, especially at slow speed'. I'm sure Chance knew what he was doing when he designed the system, but he's got me beat.
On the same vein, I believe the flaps have a bit of a slot when they are down, correct?

Keep it coming
Brian.
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Old 06-05-2004, 06:02 AM
  #98  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Scale Aileron hinging

Sport Aviation 7/79

Static Balance

Static balance - A condition that exists when an object (wheel, propeller, control surface, anything) remains stationary while supported on, or suspended from its own center of gravity. Relating this more specifically to our subject, it also means balancing a control surface while it is at rest (not in flight).
The conventional flap type (aileron, elevator, rudder) control surface, as constructed, is typically tail-heavy. That is to say, most of its structure is distributed behind the hinge axis. It is this sort of tail-heavy out-of-balance condition that is generally considered to be the major cause of control surface flutter and buffeting incidents. True, speed through the air is also a factor and there is no doubt that flutter is a more frequent occurrence in high performance aircraft than it is with the slower varieties.

When a control surface is properly mass balanced in its static condition, it should also be in dynamic balance. If, in principle, the main objective of dynamic balance is to prevent or minimize torsional stress in flight, we can accomplish this adequately by evenly distributing the mass balance weight along the span of the control surface.

A newly constructed aileron or elevator that is excessively heavy (due to the use of heavier substitute materials or uncalled for reinforcements) can be flutter-prone. Flutter is most difficult to suppress in very large or heavy control surfaces and the balance weight requirement becomes excessive.
Avoid free play or slack in the control cables. Stiffness in the control system does have a useful damping effect on the control surfaces further inhibiting flutter tendencies. However, this should not be completely relied upon as later, in service, the wear and occasional lubrication could free the system of much of its original friction and result in an increased risk of flutter.





I've been too busy to do anything on my TF Corsair for a while, but I've been following your threads consistently, I've learnt so much from them and I must thank you for that.
Thanks Brian, glad you find my ramblings and balsa bashing educational and entertaining!

The scale aileron hinge system - the upward moving aileron has its 'nose' go down into the airstream under the wing. Does this scoop air up through the slot between the wing and the aileron and up over the aileron, or is that gap minimized to prevent that?
It seems contrary to everything I've seen, you know 'always seal the hinge lines to stop air leakage, the controls will be much more positive, especially at slow speed'. I'm sure Chance knew what he was doing when he designed the system, but he's got me beat.
Look I'm no expert by any means, I just like to copy others like Vought and Grumman! I know what you have been taught and it is probably true, but every aileron or control surface is different. I think what you are referring to though is ineffective or diminished sensitivity to control inputs due to turbulence at the hinge gap that continues over the control surface. So using one type of aileron set up to judge all others would not be correct. I have attached some pictures to show the gap difference in the standard sloppy set up and the scale set up. Notice that on the scale aileron the airflow over the top of the wing is very smooth, but I don't think it scoops up air on the bottom.

In the article posted above or in any article nowhere does control surface gap come up when dealing with flutter. Notice on full-scale aircraft as in my hinging method here, the hinge pivot point is moved back on the aileron. This is done to statically and dynamically balance the control surface, and it also minimizes torsional stress in flight, see quote below. (although with models this is not generally a problem)

If, in principle, the main objective of dynamic balance is to prevent or minimize torsional stress in flight, we can accomplish this adequately by evenly distributing the mass balance weight along the span of the control surface.
Having the pivot point at the front of the control surface and using counterbalance weights is not as desirable as moving the pivot point more to the center of gravity on the control surface. This way you keep the balance weight evenly distributed along the span of the surface by using the weight of the control surface itself.


Very interesting subject, please does anyone else have anything to add? We are all just learning, the more input the better!

Dion
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Old 06-05-2004, 07:06 PM
  #99  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Scale Aileron hinging

I'll venture a semi-educated guess on that aileron function.
I had an ultralight called a Lazair that had frise ailerons like the Corsair.
The following is my take on the question, I'm open to comments from folks in the know_____
The small protruding leading edge of the upward moving aileron helps create a drag force on that side of the wing that assists the yaw affect on that side of the wing, making for a more efficient turn. The downward moving aileron on the opposite wing has the effect of increasing lift on that side, but it also increases drag--that drag increase can result in something called "adverse yaw", which is a force that would normally cause a plane to yaw AWAY from the intended direction of turn. The frise aileron affect counters this force, improving the handling of the plane.
Basically, you want to increase drag on the inside wing in the turn: the frise aileron is a good way to do that. In that type of aileron, you DON'T want any gap (or at least minimal gap) between the wing and aileron.
I realized the Corsair used frise ailerons just AFTER I finished my #86 Iron Bay kit[>:]
Would have liked to incorporate that feature.
BTW--I'll definetely echo the appreciation of DION---awesome work, dude!!!
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Old 06-05-2004, 07:39 PM
  #100  
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Default RE: F2G Corsair Build Sneak Peak!!!

I love you, Lukeh! *mwah*
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