TF GS P47 Build - yeah another bloody one!!
10-25-2015, 04:59 PM
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Thanks Pete
And I do under stand, having been a radar teck back when I was young, So I think you mist my He He and the smiley face.
That said if I was looking for a new radio system I would do a lot of reading, and in particular the " Graupner " my flying buddy for the last 25 + years got one at the Toledo show this last spring, and I can not believe how easy the programing is.
We both have been hard core Futaba users That does not in clude the heath kit and diga-quad I built back in the early 60's
and I did not mean to start a "Geek a thron "
Cheers Bob T
P/s Our season is about over weather wise
And I do under stand, having been a radar teck back when I was young, So I think you mist my He He and the smiley face.
That said if I was looking for a new radio system I would do a lot of reading, and in particular the " Graupner " my flying buddy for the last 25 + years got one at the Toledo show this last spring, and I can not believe how easy the programing is.
We both have been hard core Futaba users That does not in clude the heath kit and diga-quad I built back in the early 60's
and I did not mean to start a "Geek a thron "
Cheers Bob T
P/s Our season is about over weather wise
10-25-2015, 05:46 PM
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well one geek to another mate. Radar is very cool, Rf that uses "water pipe" as a conducter with dimensions based on 1/4 wave rule. Klystrons, maggies and the TWT! Or twat as we called them.
I worked on the Hughes TPS-43 3D air defence system for a few years, mainly with the displays and communication part of the system including crypto links. Good fun.
that was one very neat radar when it was working, you could use it in a backscatter mode using sidelobes and watch the Indos buzzing around their fleapit land. Poor mans OTHBS radar. All dependant on time of year and atmosphericas of course.
the old heathkits. Apart from the RC one we used a Hethkit programming trainer at RADSCHOOL to learn micro code programming, all done in hexidecimal (base16). we would write out the code in hex on paper with explantion of each line then manually enter it in using a keypad, not a keyboard. If you had several pages it took ages and if it had a bug would takes ages to find what you did wrong.
Back then I could do all the conversions and sums in my head, not now. Too many years ago.
Often if there was a power spike it woukld dump what you had just spent 2 hours entering and you had to start again. No save function!! all good fun.
I worked on the Hughes TPS-43 3D air defence system for a few years, mainly with the displays and communication part of the system including crypto links. Good fun.
that was one very neat radar when it was working, you could use it in a backscatter mode using sidelobes and watch the Indos buzzing around their fleapit land. Poor mans OTHBS radar. All dependant on time of year and atmosphericas of course.
the old heathkits. Apart from the RC one we used a Hethkit programming trainer at RADSCHOOL to learn micro code programming, all done in hexidecimal (base16). we would write out the code in hex on paper with explantion of each line then manually enter it in using a keypad, not a keyboard. If you had several pages it took ages and if it had a bug would takes ages to find what you did wrong.
Back then I could do all the conversions and sums in my head, not now. Too many years ago.
Often if there was a power spike it woukld dump what you had just spent 2 hours entering and you had to start again. No save function!! all good fun.
10-25-2015, 06:34 PM
Peter_OZ,
Don't bunch JR with Spektrum. They are not the same at all anymore. DMSS is vastly superior to DSMX and even better than Futaba's "FAST(est)". If you know a bit about the RF chips and hardware components, you'll know the JR is using beefier and higher quality equipment. Much better at withstanding areas saturated with WiFi as well - as the chi[set JR is using, is meant for use in congested and 'tough' areas in terms of obtaining a good signal. It's actually based around a broadband WiFi platform, and their implementation is using 3Mhz of bandwidth versus a paltry 1mhz, on cheap chinese no-name components used in the Spectrum systems.
JR and Spectrum no longer share any technology on newer radios, and the new flagship 28x is miles away from anything Spectrum has to offer. Don't confused the two at all
DMSS is also a hybrid between the best ideas of DSMX and FHSS combined into one protocol. Also, because of the higher bandwidth (this also translates into much less chance of interference) used by JR's DMSS system, it allows JR to send all channel data simultaneously, versus Spectrum which sends it as channel "1..2..3..4" etc. etc.
Don't bunch JR with Spektrum. They are not the same at all anymore. DMSS is vastly superior to DSMX and even better than Futaba's "FAST(est)". If you know a bit about the RF chips and hardware components, you'll know the JR is using beefier and higher quality equipment. Much better at withstanding areas saturated with WiFi as well - as the chi[set JR is using, is meant for use in congested and 'tough' areas in terms of obtaining a good signal. It's actually based around a broadband WiFi platform, and their implementation is using 3Mhz of bandwidth versus a paltry 1mhz, on cheap chinese no-name components used in the Spectrum systems.
JR and Spectrum no longer share any technology on newer radios, and the new flagship 28x is miles away from anything Spectrum has to offer. Don't confused the two at all
DMSS is also a hybrid between the best ideas of DSMX and FHSS combined into one protocol. Also, because of the higher bandwidth (this also translates into much less chance of interference) used by JR's DMSS system, it allows JR to send all channel data simultaneously, versus Spectrum which sends it as channel "1..2..3..4" etc. etc.
Last edited by chorner; 10-25-2015 at 06:37 PM.
10-25-2015, 07:25 PM
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mate my background is radio / electronic engineering. I do know a bit about such systems. We used spred spectrum back in early 90s for secure comms. so yes I understand the technology very well.
As for futaba being better then spektrum being better than JR it is mostly marketing BS.
JR DSMX Tx is perfectly compatible with Spectrum DSMX Rx.
Is FASST better than DSMX? Both achioeve same result with slight different techique in relation to bandwith usage, encoding and frequency hopping. JR DSMX actualy spreads accross the channel frequency asina broad band as opposed to narrow band techniques.
Lastest futaba system is VERY good, no doubt, so is latest JR and the DSMX as well.
Standard Spektrum DSM TX and RX combo is "dubious" Teh equivalent JR systems in DSM2 are more robust, i'd suggest due to the algorim preventing lock on of 2 adjacement channels. Spektrum DSM will lock to 2 adjacent channels and when there is high noise in that area of the band they lose lock and gointo seek mode, require to resume the link. Takes several seconds.
JR DSMX is measured in miliseconds as is the lastest Futaba systems. Unless you go in and measure packet loss, signal loss etc you would never know with either DSMX or Futaba FASST.
As for futaba being better then spektrum being better than JR it is mostly marketing BS.
JR DSMX Tx is perfectly compatible with Spectrum DSMX Rx.
Is FASST better than DSMX? Both achioeve same result with slight different techique in relation to bandwith usage, encoding and frequency hopping. JR DSMX actualy spreads accross the channel frequency asina broad band as opposed to narrow band techniques.
Lastest futaba system is VERY good, no doubt, so is latest JR and the DSMX as well.
Standard Spektrum DSM TX and RX combo is "dubious" Teh equivalent JR systems in DSM2 are more robust, i'd suggest due to the algorim preventing lock on of 2 adjacement channels. Spektrum DSM will lock to 2 adjacent channels and when there is high noise in that area of the band they lose lock and gointo seek mode, require to resume the link. Takes several seconds.
JR DSMX is measured in miliseconds as is the lastest Futaba systems. Unless you go in and measure packet loss, signal loss etc you would never know with either DSMX or Futaba FASST.
10-26-2015, 05:18 AM
mate my background is radio / electronic engineering. I do know a bit about such systems. We used spred spectrum back in early 90s for secure comms. so yes I understand the technology very well.
As for futaba being better then spektrum being better than JR it is mostly marketing BS.
JR DSMX Tx is perfectly compatible with Spectrum DSMX Rx.
Is FASST better than DSMX? Both achioeve same result with slight different techique in relation to bandwith usage, encoding and frequency hopping. JR DSMX actualy spreads accross the channel frequency asina broad band as opposed to narrow band techniques.
Lastest futaba system is VERY good, no doubt, so is latest JR and the DSMX as well.
Standard Spektrum DSM TX and RX combo is "dubious" Teh equivalent JR systems in DSM2 are more robust, i'd suggest due to the algorim preventing lock on of 2 adjacement channels. Spektrum DSM will lock to 2 adjacent channels and when there is high noise in that area of the band they lose lock and gointo seek mode, require to resume the link. Takes several seconds.
JR DSMX is measured in miliseconds as is the lastest Futaba systems. Unless you go in and measure packet loss, signal loss etc you would never know with either DSMX or Futaba FASST.
As for futaba being better then spektrum being better than JR it is mostly marketing BS.
JR DSMX Tx is perfectly compatible with Spectrum DSMX Rx.
Is FASST better than DSMX? Both achioeve same result with slight different techique in relation to bandwith usage, encoding and frequency hopping. JR DSMX actualy spreads accross the channel frequency asina broad band as opposed to narrow band techniques.
Lastest futaba system is VERY good, no doubt, so is latest JR and the DSMX as well.
Standard Spektrum DSM TX and RX combo is "dubious" Teh equivalent JR systems in DSM2 are more robust, i'd suggest due to the algorim preventing lock on of 2 adjacement channels. Spektrum DSM will lock to 2 adjacent channels and when there is high noise in that area of the band they lose lock and gointo seek mode, require to resume the link. Takes several seconds.
JR DSMX is measured in miliseconds as is the lastest Futaba systems. Unless you go in and measure packet loss, signal loss etc you would never know with either DSMX or Futaba FASST.
I repeat... JR DSMX is no longer... it's not the same protocol, they use DMSS. You're not listening... JR "DSMX" is old technology. DMSS not DSMX is a completely different protocol mate. Pay attention before replying in such depth
JR = DMSS, Spectrum = DSMXI have personally seen and heard of a number of failures with DSMX based systems. Myself included in that group. One fellow flyer I know, switched from DSM2 as he'd been having increasing numbers of complete signal failures (again presumably due to the rise in 2.4Ghz usage), and swapped all of his gear for the latest Gen 2 DX18 and all DSMX gear. A week later he went out to the field, and his plane took a nose dive. The only difference is, DSMX had just enough speed in signal recovery to allow him to pull out of it at the very bottom of the dive.
FYI, I'd love to have a chat with you then about radios and what you know about these radios. I'm a computer engineer myself - PM me if you'd like. I think you're speaking a bit out of ignorance. The technology is based on the same concept and idea, but each implementation is without a doubt different. The quality of the ICs of each brand is also vastly different. Futaba and JR being miles ahead of Spectrum.
I am actually quite surprised an "electronic engineer" would be so adamant on using Spectrum equipment honestly.
Last edited by chorner; 10-26-2015 at 05:27 AM.
10-28-2015, 04:33 AM
http://www.jramericas.com/?cat=2
Please do let me know where you find any DSMX based transmitters. Just to reiterate, I was comparing the latest (now over 4 years old) JR protocol to DSMX. You know, that acronym I keep using "DMSS". Quite obviously there is 0 difference between DSMX itself on two different radios - you'd have to be an idiot to even discuss otherwise. Just a thought.
Please do let me know where you find any DSMX based transmitters. Just to reiterate, I was comparing the latest (now over 4 years old) JR protocol to DSMX. You know, that acronym I keep using "DMSS". Quite obviously there is 0 difference between DSMX itself on two different radios - you'd have to be an idiot to even discuss otherwise. Just a thought.
Last edited by chorner; 10-28-2015 at 04:39 AM.
10-30-2015, 03:30 AM
Ok boys, settle down. I cleaned out nearly a page worth of posts. Please make your points w/o calling someone's IQ, mental state, or personal preference for breakfast into question 
Oh, and if I see it again someone or ones may end up on Moderated Status where your posts won't appear until someone gets around to approving them.
Oh, and if I see it again someone or ones may end up on Moderated Status where your posts won't appear until someone gets around to approving them.
11-22-2015, 09:40 AM
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So I leave you alone for a little while and you get into a radio debate. Maybe its a good thing I couldn't remember my password. Which is the reason I was gone for so long.
Our outdoor season is over. Now I can get back to the building season. I made a vow that my Scale planes will be the first in the air next spring... I'll be doing some maintenance on the 47 as well. Didn't have it in the air all season.
Our outdoor season is over. Now I can get back to the building season. I made a vow that my Scale planes will be the first in the air next spring... I'll be doing some maintenance on the 47 as well. Didn't have it in the air all season.
11-22-2015, 12:58 PM
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Old Tom
Nice to hear from you, I am still working part time and my days off did not match up with flying days so my 47 has sat all summer to. Still trying to get my corsair back together/finished glass and paint.
Haven't heard a word fro Pete sense his last post, and the E-mail I have for him is no longer working, so we may have come to the end of the trail.
Cheers Bob T
Nice to hear from you, I am still working part time and my days off did not match up with flying days so my 47 has sat all summer to. Still trying to get my corsair back together/finished glass and paint.
Haven't heard a word fro Pete sense his last post, and the E-mail I have for him is no longer working, so we may have come to the end of the trail.
Cheers Bob T
11-22-2015, 03:09 PM
The person repeatedly personal attacking got moderated and only when asked several times to settle down. I read the thread and took the action I did based on what I read, not who wrote it.
Pete is welcome back with open arms if he so chooses, but everyone, new members and long time members are expected to abide by the rules they agree to when creating an account.
Pete is welcome back with open arms if he so chooses, but everyone, new members and long time members are expected to abide by the rules they agree to when creating an account.
11-22-2015, 03:43 PM
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Warbird Pilots 1/6 ~ 1/5 Scale WWII USAAF Pilot, Top Flite Giant P-47
Hello, My name is Adam Martin of Warbird Pilots. www.warbirdpilots.com I have been getting a lot of questions lately as to which pilot fits the Top Flite Giant P-47. So I wanted to take a second to show you the pilot I offer for this aircraft and how it fits.
The pilot is the 12" Tall, 1/6 ~ 1/5 Scale WWII USAAF Pilot and the WWII USAAF Tuskegee Pilot
http://www.warbirdpilots.com/product...lot-figure.htm
http://www.warbirdpilots.com/product...lot-figure.htm
As you can see the pilot comes with all that is shown. Pilots come completely dressed and ready to install. The figure comes with a beautifully painted head and highly detailed clothing and equipment specific to the USAAF. I also made all the clothing, accessories, and equipment fully removable to allow you to change the pilot and give it your own personal look. Finally, I designed it with a wire frame, cotton body that is incredibly light (5 ounces) and allows it to be manipulated and bent in any position.
As you can see from the pictures below, the entire figure does actually fit in the cockpit of the P-47 and the figure is the correct scale for this aircraft. But a couple of things must be done to get it to fit correctly.
- The first thing I recommend is to unhook the buckle from the parachute pack that the pilot sits on. Once you remove the buckle you will be able to remove a cloth bag of cotton. This will allow the parachute pack to flatten and the pilot to sit lower.
- The next thing to do is bend the body. The advantage with the wire frame cotton body is that the figures seated height can be adjusted just by bending the figure further up or down its waist. That will allow the figure to sit higher or lower in the seat and get his eyes to look right down the gun sight. In the case of the P-47, bend the figure higher up its waist. This will lower the figures head to the correct height and you will never know you bent it higher up its waist because the mae west and parachute straps cover it up.
Don't forget to look at the servo operated moving head option. I install a Hitec HS-55 servo in the figures chest allowing the head to be moved left and right. If you add this option, the figure will come complete with a wire coming out his pants, ready to plug and play.
http://www.warbirdpilots.com/product_p/servo-head.htm
I hope this helps you decide the correct size pilot to fit into your Top Flite Giant P-47. Feel free to call or email me with any questions or if you just want to talk shop. I have been flying for 25 years and love warbirds.
Adam Martin
www.warbirdpilots.com
Business: 203-528-4352
[email protected]
The pilot is the 12" Tall, 1/6 ~ 1/5 Scale WWII USAAF Pilot and the WWII USAAF Tuskegee Pilot
http://www.warbirdpilots.com/product...lot-figure.htm
http://www.warbirdpilots.com/product...lot-figure.htm
As you can see the pilot comes with all that is shown. Pilots come completely dressed and ready to install. The figure comes with a beautifully painted head and highly detailed clothing and equipment specific to the USAAF. I also made all the clothing, accessories, and equipment fully removable to allow you to change the pilot and give it your own personal look. Finally, I designed it with a wire frame, cotton body that is incredibly light (5 ounces) and allows it to be manipulated and bent in any position.
As you can see from the pictures below, the entire figure does actually fit in the cockpit of the P-47 and the figure is the correct scale for this aircraft. But a couple of things must be done to get it to fit correctly.
- The first thing I recommend is to unhook the buckle from the parachute pack that the pilot sits on. Once you remove the buckle you will be able to remove a cloth bag of cotton. This will allow the parachute pack to flatten and the pilot to sit lower.
- The next thing to do is bend the body. The advantage with the wire frame cotton body is that the figures seated height can be adjusted just by bending the figure further up or down its waist. That will allow the figure to sit higher or lower in the seat and get his eyes to look right down the gun sight. In the case of the P-47, bend the figure higher up its waist. This will lower the figures head to the correct height and you will never know you bent it higher up its waist because the mae west and parachute straps cover it up.
Don't forget to look at the servo operated moving head option. I install a Hitec HS-55 servo in the figures chest allowing the head to be moved left and right. If you add this option, the figure will come complete with a wire coming out his pants, ready to plug and play.
http://www.warbirdpilots.com/product_p/servo-head.htm
I hope this helps you decide the correct size pilot to fit into your Top Flite Giant P-47. Feel free to call or email me with any questions or if you just want to talk shop. I have been flying for 25 years and love warbirds.
Adam Martin
www.warbirdpilots.com
Business: 203-528-4352
[email protected]
11-25-2015, 08:51 AM
Back to P47's... I just re-built one of my two 7-77's, and installed a 24oz Rotoflow tank into my P47. Haven't decided whether I will let the rocker covers protrude slightly (very close fit!) or make the effort to copy the Top Flite cowl with a mold, and enlarge it slightly to accommodate the engine.
Will be a great combination! I'm going to test a 4 blade prop of 20" diameter and 10-12 pitch, as the engine on CDI will push a 24x10 Mejzlik at over 6,300rpm.
Will be a great combination! I'm going to test a 4 blade prop of 20" diameter and 10-12 pitch, as the engine on CDI will push a 24x10 Mejzlik at over 6,300rpm.
11-25-2015, 09:07 AM
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Have you used the Rotoflow fuel tanks before? If so how long? The reason I'm asking is #1 I'm getting just about 1-year's service with my Tygon clunk lines before they turn into tree branches.
I am concerned about the Rotoflow tank's clunk assembly getting gummed-up over time and not staying with the fuel in the tank.
I am concerned about the Rotoflow tank's clunk assembly getting gummed-up over time and not staying with the fuel in the tank.
11-25-2015, 10:00 AM
Never used one before to be quite honest. I switched to the RotoFlow tanks specifically for that reason... I was tired of my lines stiffening up, and having to "rebuild" tanks after every season. Hopefully the RotoFlow lives up to the hype of being a hassle-free tank setup. I'd be ok even if I got 2 or 3 season out of it with no fiddling, never mind the stated 20+ year o-ring life.
As far as the clunk being gummed up, I don't think that should be much of an issue judging by the design if you're just careful to ensure good filtration of the fuel going into the tank, and using high quality fuel. The only reason I say that, is that the only areas of contact between the rotating clunk assembly and the main fuel pickup barb are 4 o-rings, with a pretty small surface area of contact. I would have to imagine that filling the tank up again with fresh fuel and knocking the plane around in any capacity would loosen any bit of potential gumming... ?
That's my hope anyhow
As far as the clunk being gummed up, I don't think that should be much of an issue judging by the design if you're just careful to ensure good filtration of the fuel going into the tank, and using high quality fuel. The only reason I say that, is that the only areas of contact between the rotating clunk assembly and the main fuel pickup barb are 4 o-rings, with a pretty small surface area of contact. I would have to imagine that filling the tank up again with fresh fuel and knocking the plane around in any capacity would loosen any bit of potential gumming... ?
That's my hope anyhow
11-26-2015, 07:24 AM
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Sonny
2 of my flying buddies have been using the Rotoflow ever sense they were first displayed at the Toledo show as I remember about 3 years back with no problems, one fellow leaves a bit of fuel in the tank, but he uses ave. gas 100, and the other fellow always runs his dry and is using hot rod gas not sure what the octane ratting might be and they have never had any problems, but they are like me they change all of there tubing about every 3 seasons I can't say none of out club does not use regular pump gas, but most of the ones I fly with do not. if it were not such a PITA I would most likely change out all of my birds
2 of my flying buddies have been using the Rotoflow ever sense they were first displayed at the Toledo show as I remember about 3 years back with no problems, one fellow leaves a bit of fuel in the tank, but he uses ave. gas 100, and the other fellow always runs his dry and is using hot rod gas not sure what the octane ratting might be and they have never had any problems, but they are like me they change all of there tubing about every 3 seasons I can't say none of out club does not use regular pump gas, but most of the ones I fly with do not. if it were not such a PITA I would most likely change out all of my birds
11-26-2015, 05:30 PM
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Thanks for the info Bob!
I think the concept of the Rotoflow tanks is great, but until someone, who has experience using the Roto tank over at least a three year period, tells me they are as good as they sound, I'll keep with the Tygon clunk line.
I use relatively cheap 87 octane fuel that probably has an abundance of ethanol that is causing premature hardening of the fuel lines.
Sonny
I think the concept of the Rotoflow tanks is great, but until someone, who has experience using the Roto tank over at least a three year period, tells me they are as good as they sound, I'll keep with the Tygon clunk line.
I use relatively cheap 87 octane fuel that probably has an abundance of ethanol that is causing premature hardening of the fuel lines.
Sonny
Last edited by Sonny.C; 11-26-2015 at 05:32 PM.
11-27-2015, 04:53 AM
If you switch to Viton it will hold up a lot better as a clunk line and remain flexible pretty much forever.
That and a ceramic clunk from Poulan and you have a pretty much bullet proof tank setup.
That and a ceramic clunk from Poulan and you have a pretty much bullet proof tank setup.
11-27-2015, 05:48 AM
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about pump gas I have had it mixed for my yard Items and left it in them over the winter and ended up having to clean/rebuild each one at some point in the spring, So for me to go to the local airport and get 10 gallons ave/100 and it is well worth the 4.75 to 5.25 coast not to have to worry about gumming etc and rebuilding carbs and when you by tygon by the roll it about 1/3 the coast at the LHS. Vitron is in my opinion is my second choice, but have not used it in about 10 years.
That is just me
Cheers Bob T
That is just me
Cheers Bob T
11-27-2015, 04:04 PM
My pleasure
Viton and one of these is a pretty bullet proof fuel setup, I use it on everything from my glider tug to 3D stuff and my H-9 60cc Mustang
http://www.wrongwayrc.com/index.php?...product_id=213
Viton and one of these is a pretty bullet proof fuel setup, I use it on everything from my glider tug to 3D stuff and my H-9 60cc Mustang
http://www.wrongwayrc.com/index.php?...product_id=213
11-28-2015, 06:20 AM
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For the best prices go to Mcmaster car they are a mail order hdw co that has just about everything, but as I remember you have to buy a 50' roll so price per ft is less than a quarter from the LHS's at least in my area.
Cheers Bob T
Cheers Bob T
11-29-2015, 06:00 PM
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Thanks Bob
In contact with Pete today and he sent me some of the latest pics.
The weathering job he has is nothing short of amazing, he's almost finished.
Not saying this will work but I will try to copy a couple of his latest pics in for you and the original P-47 blokes!
Kindest Regards
In contact with Pete today and he sent me some of the latest pics.
The weathering job he has is nothing short of amazing, he's almost finished.
Not saying this will work but I will try to copy a couple of his latest pics in for you and the original P-47 blokes!
Kindest Regards