Richard L.

My Feedback: (24)

Sure, if you are using a recommended engine, and your plane loses control and flies into someone because the firewall breaks either on the ground or in mid air, then clearly it is a manufacturer defect. It is as clear as night and day.

dudley43

My Feedback: (1)

This past Spring I had a similar experience with a Hanger 9 Corsair I built over the past winter. On my 6th flight with this plane I was about 8 minutes into the flight and making a low pass over the field when there was a loud "pop" and the Corsair yawed to the left. I was able to maintain control and made a wheels up landing near the far end of the runway coming to rest in a corn field. Minor dents to the leading edge of the wing, etc. The firewall had broken loose on the starboard side. I contacted Hanger 9 and delivered the plane to them for examination (my son lives in Champaign, Ill.). In approximately 2-weeks I received notifiecation that a complete new Corsair ARF was being shipped at no charge. I was unaware of the posts on RC Universe at the time I completed the kit. I had epoxied the firewall but did not fiberglass it. The Hanger 9 customer service rep suggested that I do so when building the replacement kit. I can not say enough about the excellent service and consideration I received by the Hanger 9 staff in resolution of this problem. I will gladly and happily purchase from Hanger 9 in the future.
[quote]ORIGINAL: carstoreguy

wildnloose

That is the point I was trying to make all this time(see post #21), too bad no one would listen...

branded

My Feedback: (9)

I was listening and happen to agree with you. There's a certain experience level that a person/consumer is assumed to have in this hobby, particularly when purchasing an airplane such as this, and if you're not reinforcing your firewall then perhaps you shouldn't be flying that particular airplane....

Ok, I've got my helmet on....Fire away!

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

And I have to agree with Richard, and it is as clear as night and day.
While many, if not most of us, have the common sense to inspect and modify things like the firewall structual integrity, it cannot be assumed that all buyers of ARFs will do so. Many have never built a kit built plane, and even tho they may be accomplished fliers, they know little about building. That's just the way things are.
And even for the experienced builders: If you are using the recommended engine and equipment from the manufacturer, the aircraft should not be prone to catastropic failure (as in, firewall seperation and/ or wing seperation), especially if it is relatively new and has not been abused in any way. Sounds like a very clear case for a very large lawsuit (against manufacturer and distributer), should a human casualty ever occur, and especially if previous incidents have been reported.

BTW, the newer Hanger-9 ARFs DO have some additional re-inforcement where the firewall and fuselage are joined together.
AND, I have one of these later version, been flying it with the Saito .91 and Master Airscrew 3 blade 14 x 7: no problems so far. I do think the Saito 1.00 is much more than is needed for this lightweight ARF, and think Hanger-9 should quit pushing that combo.
I have 2 other Hanger 9 Corsair projects: 1 is getting complete makeover including new firewall, other is being converted to electric power, and will also have a new firewall.

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

You don't need to got through that aggravation. You have a complete Consumer Board right here. Look at the number of memebers and those who visit. We can slam any product, anytime and most who read it will give second thoughts on their plans. Most distributes are lurking around here too and many who work for them.

Take Great Planes, they better take care of that covering problem pretty quick and post that they have or they are going down.



[quote]ORIGINAL: LDM

There is another option that none of us has discussed , the CONSUMER SAFETY BOARD , I think you start with your complaint ,

carstoreguy

As the author of this thread I'd like to make a few things clear.
First I own a hobby store, Should I tell my customers that the H9 planes are cheepo hot glue junk and you need to do work on it prior to it actually being an arf? ( sounds like a great selling point!)
Seccond, This airplane was a gift for a guy who works for me (thank god!) however as I stated we did put epoxy around the firewall all the way around the fuse! Hanger 9 went through the trouble to update the retracts so why didn't they update the firewall? No updates, special notes or even a warning about the firewall were in the instructions.
(We put it together as instructed with the motor suggested by our rep.)

Lastly, We own a boat dealership too (1:1 scale). What do you think would happen if we sold a guy a boat and the transom fell off? (maybe we could tell him he should have read the threads on fishingboatuniverse.com and he would have known that most guys reinforce the boat prior to launching it , so shame on him!)

I'll be on the phone with my rep today and ill let you all know what they say about this.
Maybe I'll tell them that instead of fixing the problem I'll tell them to change it to a ( ALMOST READY TO FLY AFTER YOU SPEND MORE MONEY ON THIS PEICEOF JUNK) THAT SOUND GREAT
"HANGER9 ARTFAYSMMOTPOJ " corsair

carstoreguy

Im the aurthor of this thread so lets try to make this more understandable.
1.) I own a hobby store, however this was a gift to a guy who works for me. (thank god!)
2.) We did put epoxy around the firewall inside the fuse, more than we thaught was needed too!
3.) Hanger9 went to great trouble to improve the retracts, why not the firewall?
4.) Biult within what H9 said for power.
5.) What should I say to my customers who buy it? "This is a light weight hot glue piece of crap and you will need to buy more stuff like fiberglass and resin with it, but.. seeing as your lazy and you want an ARF, just shell out the extra bucks" .........sounds like a sales pitch to me!
6.) I own a boat dealership. If i sold a guy a boat and he put an engine on it that was of the recomended size then on the first ride the transom fell off, should i just tell him he should have read the threads on fishingboatuniverse.com?

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

Flak

My Feedback: (1)

My condolances to all of you who have ARF airplanes that have failed. I had one, but I will never buy another one, (it was not a H9 product). For the money spent, the COMMERCIAL ARF airplane should have flawless workmanship and fly like the dream you have right before you awake, (where Tinkerbell lives, or is she really Julia Roberts?). Seriously, I would never allow one of my airplanes into the air if I had the slightest doubt of the workmanship, performance or safety concerning the aircraft.

Maybe someone should start a new post in protest of the H9 Corsair and all of its shortcomings, let the 1st hand purchasers sign to the post, then send the petition of protest to the CEO of Hangar 9. This is just an idea. Good luck in the future.

"Keep 'Em Flying!"
Flak

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Jusy an FYI - I wrote the publisher of FLY RC and stated how disappointed I was over the H9 review . I told him respectfully that there were many mods needed to the plane and can not believe that they did not menthion one . I also explaned that I understood ad revenue and the pressure to maintain ad sales but felt that subscriptions would go up for any mag that simply took a more contructive review .Example" we like the plane but out resident RC expert said you should do the following " . This way there not putting a nail in there own coffin but they are adding good credible advice on how to keep this plane in the air .

I received a responce from the editor that said , "we think your comments about the H9 would have been helpful to the review and we will pass them on to the author of the artical for feedback ". We also know that we have differant readers that have differant expectations ect ect ect . " Ok so tell me or show me an RCer who dose not want positive commenst about how to make a plane safe , better and less aggravating during the set up and flying stage ????? I think that the VQ P40 review in RCM got VQ to redesign the P40 because the original wing was built with the wrong washout . IN-tern VQ sold many more P40 the sesond time around !!!!

prop wash

Gentlemen,why should we the consumer have to modify a plane that is supposed to be almost ready to fly??Top Flight,Dave patrick,Carl Goldberg,World Models,I have had all these and I did not have to modify any one of them.If my Jeep's engine fell off would Jeep tell me I should have reinforced the engine mounts my self therefore they are not responsible.What a joke!! My friend had a H9 corsair and the tail fell off.He sent it back and they did replace it but blamed him for not gluing it properly.I know him well and he knows how to build well.If I have to modify a new plane because the manufacturer is incompetent then I will never by one of their products.Their retracts junk also.Just my opinion

marwen1

My Feedback: (6)

As I read this thread I read all kinds of data saying to "glass" the firewall as well as to epoxy it. My question has to be answered otherwise I might as well start the majority of my scratch builts all over again. I guess the overall question is - "is it necessary to 'glass' ALL firewalls or just the H9 ARF's?"

Richard L.

My Feedback: (24)

Just the H9 ARF's because H9 can't seem to get it right. It is not necessary to glass the firewalls of ARF's from Kyosho, CM Pro, VQ, World Models, etc... although it's just extra insurance should you decide to do so.

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

H9 problems with firewalls goes back several years. The hobby shop owner here had a PT19 firewall come off in flight serveral years back. I've seen more than a few pictures of corsairs with busted off firewalls and one T-6 with a busted firewall. They obviously have a problem. It may be only a small percentage, but its enough for me. When my students ask about next planes, I try to stear them away from H9. Even their electronics has gone south. Had a power panel that blew glow plugs like fuses on the lowest setting. Went back to hobbico and tower stuff, I know exactly what to expect from them and have had pretty good luck.
Edwin

wildnloose

After personally seeing a few other manufacturers firewall come loose (with the recommended engine I might add), I don't trust any firewall that has been hot glued...

scottrc

I begining not to trust any firewall I didn't put in myself. I liked the ARF idea, but after having the same problems and now stripping all the covering off and doing a complete annual on a new plane because I dont trust how it was built, I now went back to kits.

Viva La Kits!

Scott

branded

My Feedback: (9)

Guys..guys...a little common sense here. If you buy one of these ARF's, and you're at the point where you can actually install the radio system, pushrods, control surfaces, whatever, you should be experienced enough to know that YOU NEED TO AT LEAST INSPECT THE FIRWEWALL and perhaps the landing gear mounts, etc....

ARF's are a great resource for those of you that don't want to invest in the time to learn how to build but you absolutely need to understand what you're buying.

You're getting a model that 95% complete.

If you don't have the experience level to operate, install the engine, servos, radio, linkages, control surfaces, etceteras...as well as the intuitive knowledge to know, intuitively what needs to be done to the airframe to make it safe then you shouldn't be flying these airplanes!

I personally observe, every new season, a troubling trend. I see guys showing up at the field with airplanes, particularly GIANT ARF's, whereby the owner doesn't have a clue as to the necessary skills/experience to operate the aircraft he owns/operates.

There's more to this hobby than just flipping the prop and flying.....Ignorance is dangerous, and that's what this thread is all about!

What’s next? I didn't know I had to check my tire pressure lest my vehicle go out of control and roll over? Jeesh!!!!

It's clear to me that these models are being marketed to people that don't have the experience level to operate them safely.

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

It may seem clear to you who these models are being marketed for, but I can assure you many of these models are being operated by very experienced flyers, such as myself. I've been flying for over 20 years. Flying ARFs isn't something I do because I don't have the skills to build, rather it is something I do because I don't have the time to build. About 4 years ago, I took on a new job, which occupies way too many hours of my life. I am doing the time now, so that I can retire (and begin building from kits again) in about 4 years. In the mean time, ARFs are what the size of my aircraft fleet up.
I'm not the only expereinced flyer who flies ARFs, I see a great many of them at club sites and events these day. Not all of us have the time to build an aircraft from a kit these day, but I hope to be one that is able to in a few years.
Yes, there are some in-experienced flyers as well who purchase ARFs, but many are experieced flyers who have their own reasons for flying them.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I agree with Cor Jock , and so many others wo have stated that we are experineced but I do know that the demographics on the purchase do vary .Its still dose not matter , those of you who have posted , you should , could have and must do are missing the point . Like I said before when I visited my LHS in Lancaster I watch Tom the owner build his H9 corsiar . His dad who also works at the shop is a retired electrical enginer and experienced flyer . Both of them missed the fact that the bulkhead needed desperate reinforcement . Both missed the misallined engine mounting holes , the only thing they did on there own was bend the tail wheel before they put it into the wing . Both have built WW2 kits , scratch built and have experienced in every aspect in the RC world . I remember when I received my kit thinking how light it was , how it look so well crafted ect ect ect . YOu have to remember you get a plane , your excited , you want to think everthing is ok , and your looking at the fun stuff first . I dont know that I would have caught the bulkhead if I did not read the post . I know I woudl have certainly not inspected the wing area that has also caused failure . Like so many other have said how much are you supposed to do to ARF to make it safe !!!! Remember i stilll love the plane but I did make about 10 to 11 adjustments based on what I read in the post including the CG being off as stated in the plans .

voyager_663rd

Maybe the solution is to buy ARC not ARF. I hate covering (up to this point anyways in my building career) so that's why I got (another make of) arf. With an ARC, I think it would be easier to see as well as access those areas deemed in need of additional "help".

I think though that arc's are not as readily available as arf's are. Anyone?

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Great point I also wish there were more ARC

branded

My Feedback: (9)

I'm not arguing the point that these models are flown by more experienced modellers, but rather that those "experienced modellers" aren't the one's that are experiencing firewall seperation.
More than likely an "experienced modeller" will have the wherewithal and "experience" to intuitively beef up an otherwise ill fitted firewall, or do such as a matter of fact whether it needs it or not.

Like I said, if you need to rely on the chinese to do it for you then perhaps you should rethink your desire to fly certain kinds of model airplanes.....

JMO.....

Old Dutch

My Feedback: (34)

It was my intention to go to my LHS tonight and buy a H-9 Corsair. So.....I decided to check out the latest posts on it. I have read many in the past. Thinking that by now H-9 got their act together, I thought that I would buy. I already have built their T-6 and having been forewarned about the Firewall, I glassed & epoxied it. This T-6 was augered in due to radio interference. The largest, strongest part of the wreckage was the front end. The reinforced FW was totally intact and this made rebuilding the model possible. But.....now I hear of wing failure on the Corsair! What's with this kit.........My decision was not to buy the H-9 product! Enough already!! There are other distributors that are trying harder and deserve our business........cheers!

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Dutch , before you walk away , look at the kit , its not a bad fix, very nice size , good cowl , covering and overall a great flying plane .The adjustments will take you all of about an hour and you wil have a great corsair .

Tsutomu Mabuchi

My Feedback: (1)

I partially agree with you. The manufacturer has responsibility to their
products basically, but when it is bought and used by someone, an user
is then also responsible to the safety of that merchandise.
He has to check if the airplane is safe enough to fly. If he find a defect,
he has to fix it or claim the manufacturer to replace it with safe one
BEFORE FLIGHT.
As long as the manufacturer does not give the warranty, unlike full scale
airplane, we have to check the airplane before we fly it.
What I want to say is that both a manufacturere and a user are responsible,
although the manufacturer is more.
That's why we have to buy good quality ARF and fix it if required.
That is my thought.

Tsutomu Mabuchi