Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Warbirds and Warplanes
Reload this Page >

Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Notices
RC Warbirds and Warplanes Discuss rc warbirds and warplanes in this forum.

Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Old 11-10-2002, 05:21 AM
  #51  
speedaholic
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: fresno, CA
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default blades

sounds resonable and makes good sence, maybe he could make some aluminum prop mount/pullys that could take the stress, probably cost too much. mine flies good with the plastic blades but it is cool right now so i dont know how it will do in the summer but we will see. anyways i started this cause there was some people talking about it but maybe like they say leave well enough alone. good try though.
Old 11-10-2002, 10:51 AM
  #52  
GPaloz
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Edgewater, FL
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

The way that the hub and blades are designed leads me to believe that a thrown prop blade is virtually impossible. I talked to Iron Bay also earlier in the year and was told that the original manufacturer was to continue to produce the blades. Things changed in the fall out of the sale of the Byron equipment and Iron Bay was sort of traped in taking the machine that makes the plastic blades. So I believe with the added expense of this Iron Bay would not be to willing to modify or change there stand on this situation. I believe its the MONEY thing, more than anything else. Regards
Old 11-10-2002, 04:24 PM
  #53  
Jack Devine
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Byron Prop Blades

GPaloz: I totally agree with you that the design is more than capable of handeling a better blade. Look at the Zinger hub and the wooden blades or that really nice Gerard unit that Frank Tiano and others market that has adjustable pitch. How many blades have they thrown? Have you ever seen a big wood prop part with a blade? I have. And it happened because after a very hard landing the modeler didn't do a good check on the prop which was broken inside the spinner. A bit of responsibility has to come into the picture here. If you fly model airplanes you need to preform the necessary inspections of your equipment. That responsibility rests solely on the modeler. How often to real full scale aircraft get inspected????. Good maintenance prevents most of the bad things from happening. I sure hope we Byron reduction owners don't give up this easily.

JackDevine
Old 11-10-2002, 04:51 PM
  #54  
kram51
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Barboursville, VA
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default I Hope You're all right!

Hey, that's what the man said to me -BUT- he never mentioned the whole bit about the blade manufacturer so, if that's also the case, then GPaloz has info that I don't. That certainly isn't the first time that has happened! :stupid:
You guys have much more experience with this system than I do. Jack you've already been a help to me, as well as many others, so if you feel that the design can handle it then so be it. You're absolutely right that it's each individual's responsibility to make sure his/her aircraft is ready for flight.

My bird is coming along nicely and I'm thinking of posting some pics as it goes along. I'll brace for the reply's!!

All the best.
Old 11-10-2002, 11:25 PM
  #55  
SCALECRAFT
My Feedback: (13)
 
SCALECRAFT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: MONTEBELLO, CA
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Gentelmen

I think that Iron Bay is thinking along the lines of liability.

Althought one has resposibility to maintain the aircraft, the lawyers will sue anyone with pockets. For Iron Bay just to answer a summons(?) will cost them a minimum of $2,500 to $3,000.

Still the plastic blades can cause equal damage as a composite one.

I think Iron Bay has thier hands full right now just trying to get rolling. I would look outside of Iron Bay for the composite blades.

I would consider carbon/kevlar constuction. Carbon for stiffness, kevlar for strenth if anyone developes one. Thats what my 109's will be. One day .

Steve
Old 11-11-2002, 12:51 AM
  #56  
Jack Devine
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Carbon Fiber Blades

I sure think the Byron prop mount is stronger than either of the other two I mentioned, and I totally agree that the present unit could throw blade parts all over the place under the right circumstances but then what airplane propeller is any different. It's to bad the legal system has gotten us to where we are today. Ruffle anybody's feathers about anything and the answer is a lawsuit. What a crock of crap!!!

Is there a model RC fuel or gas burning airplane out there that does not have lethal potential? I don't think so and it goes back to what I said earlier. A responsible RC person takes good care of their equipment and most bad incidents get prevented when planes are maintained properly and flown in the fashon they were designed for. Putting anything in the air that is not 100% flight ready is just plain stupid in my book.

With that said I still think a good blade made out of a newer material would bring this system back into the modern technology that most of us enjoy today. I wish I knew how to make the blades. I'd do it myself and just fly my plane and enjoy all that new usable power.

Jack Devine
Old 11-11-2002, 01:37 AM
  #57  
GPaloz
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Edgewater, FL
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Jack, I'm in total agreement.
Old 03-20-2003, 04:28 PM
  #58  
Roberto B.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pescara, ITALY
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

I could easily make sets of P51 blades for 180EUR + shipping.
I need to sell no less than 6 sets to make the thing worth.

Let me know your intentions

Roberto Bracchi
www.modelcompositi.com
[email protected]

ITALY
Old 03-20-2003, 06:14 PM
  #59  
Jack Devine
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Carbon Fiber Prop Blades

Hello Roberto: You have sure caought my interest. I have two of these systems and would love to see a better blade that I know would increase this system's efficiency. Tell us about your knowledge and manufacturing capability of these new blades. I'm sure threr will be many interested people. Have you seen a Byron manufactured blade? The inside of the blade is the critical mount point and it would have to duplicate the ridges that hold the blade to the spinner drive plate. I hope you can share some information as to your experiences with Carbon Fiber Prop production with us. I look forward to hearing from you!

Jack Devine
Old 03-20-2003, 06:28 PM
  #60  
Roberto B.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pescara, ITALY
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

I'm a professional composite materials manufacturer since 10 years.
Previously I worked as designer/technical manager in many factories around the world, including Formula One, Aircraft and general industry.

My actual activities are 90% on carbon fiber processing now.

I can design and produce any kind of product with composites.

Back to the P-51, I already own one original kit, including the propeller. I'm able to work any kind of problems out.

If you need any other info, please ask.

Bye

Roberto Bracchi

www.modelcompositi.com
Old 03-21-2003, 03:11 AM
  #61  
Jack Devine
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Byron Prop blades

Hello Roberto, Thankyou for getting back to me with your reply. It sounds like you have a great deal of experience with composite materials and that is exactly what we need here. You stated you have a Byron Reduction system so you know what the blades look like on the system that was used on the P-51. There could also be a possible market for the Curtis style blades that are used on the Byron Hellcat and Corsair with the three blade system and also the four blade prop that was used on the P-47.
All of these blades were made of the same Nylon/plastic type of material and all of them flatten out pretty bad when you turn them at high speed. With Formula I experience you should have a great background on dealing with stress and it's effects on cpmposite material. In the original forum there were five or six different people that expressed a great deal of interest in obtaining carbon fiber blades and all of them were Mustang owners. The Others have not responded yet but then the title of the forum was not directed at any of the other planes that might benefit from the new improved prop blades. If any of you Byron owners out there are interested then respond and let's see if we can give Roberto the incentive to build us all a new set of prop blades. Thanks Roberto!

Jack Devine
Old 03-21-2003, 12:44 PM
  #62  
BOMBERGUY
Senior Member
My Feedback: (5)
 
BOMBERGUY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lockport, IL
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Jack,

I'll take a set for the P-51. I'm just about finished with my P-51.

John
Old 03-21-2003, 12:48 PM
  #63  
kram51
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Barboursville, VA
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Just let me know when they're ready!

Mark
Old 03-21-2003, 01:25 PM
  #64  
Roberto B.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pescara, ITALY
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

I will begin the work on the blade just when 6 people will request them.
From then it will take a month to have the first blabes ready for shipping.

Bye

Roberto Bracchi
www.modelcompositi.com
Old 03-21-2003, 03:27 PM
  #65  
viper16
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Well this dicussion, talked about composite blades for the Byron/Ironbay 51,which is in the 5th scale range,but what about making a set of carbon fiber blades in 1/4 scale,33.5" . Greg
Old 03-21-2003, 04:51 PM
  #66  
Jack Devine
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Byron Reduction Drive Blades

Hi Roberto, I will take a set for my Mustang and if they work as good as I think they will I'll buy a second set for the other unit I have. I think as more modelers view this you will find there are quite a few people that own the Byron Reduction Drive system and many of them will be interested. I'll keep contacting the guys I talked with before about this and see if they are ready to jump in too. I don't think we will have any trouble finding 15 owners who would be interested in the blades. If we can put together a big order will the price of the blades come down? I hope this will happen because I know there is a lot of potential in these Mustangs that will be unlocked with a more efficient blade.

Jack Devine
Old 03-21-2003, 08:59 PM
  #67  
Hinckley Bill
My Feedback: (569)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Illinos
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default Am very interested

Hi Roberto,

Saw your post regarding the possibility of producing composite 4-Blades for the Byron P-51's..

I have two 'Stangs that could definitely use this type of improvement....let me know how to pay for the first set and if they work as well as they should I'll definitely be interested in a second set in short order..

Bill
Old 03-21-2003, 09:35 PM
  #68  
smchale
My Feedback: (67)
 
smchale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Philadelphia PA
Posts: 2,809
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

This sounds very interesting! I think you may even find that Iron Bay may sell more P-51's as a result of a solution to this prop issue. I know I have loved the look of the Byron P-51 with that big prop but have been hesitant to travel down this path due to the prop and it's inefficiency. I'll watch these developments with great interest!!
Old 03-21-2003, 11:37 PM
  #69  
Roberto B.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pescara, ITALY
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Well, you people have conviced me.
Next week I will begin the work on the Byron blades.
Meantime, it could be useful for everybody to find someone of you that could act as "importer" so to keep the shipping cost to a minimum.
I don't think that the price could be lowered at all, since the mold is very little and not so expensive, and the working time on a blade set remains unchanged no matter how many blades I have to produce.

About a quarter scale P51 prop: 33.5" is quite an impressive value.
I suppose that:
1)A well engineered reduction unit has to be designed and manufactured.
2)The power needed to move such a propeller is much more than the one that usually a scale fun is used to and have at hand at the moment.
3)The overall cost of such a project (including the propeller) is supposed to have an HUGE increase compared to the 1/5 scale system (also because the all engineering and testing costs could be divided on a littler market).
4)I don't know actually any kit this size available on the market.

Anyway, I would really love to have a quarter scale Mustang (what could be his wing span?).

But all the work needed to let this model possible is out of my will, now.
The only thing I could do is to cooperate with someone else in the designing/production of the parts.
It would be nice if some of you could have a solid project I could be interested in. (I'm now thinking that such a model could be worth to be made all in composite, just like the -now out of production- P51 Fiberclassics, but that's another story...)

It's 0.35 a.m. now here. It's time to sleep.

Let me know your toughts.

Roberto Bracchi
www.modelcompositi.com
Old 03-22-2003, 03:50 AM
  #70  
trdpro
Junior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Reno, NV,
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Roberto, I'll take a set too. Keep in touch as to how to get them when their ready. Here I was thinking I had an obsolete system . Guess it pays to ask questions. Also people, I have a new spare set of Byron blades if anyone needs a set.
Old 03-22-2003, 03:52 AM
  #71  
trdpro
Junior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Reno, NV,
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

By the way, Tiano doesn't sell adj. pitch props anymore. Have to call manufacturer, Carl, 250-549-4234.
Old 03-22-2003, 05:36 AM
  #72  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Jack and all, I wish I would have found this thread months ago, as I could have dispelled some bad information that was given then.

Mustang51 was incorrect. You can't "copywrite" a manufactured item, only patent it's design. And as was pointed out, patents have a lifespan (generally 17 years). I'm fairly certain all the Byron prop patents have expired.

As to Bolly's response, I think that's a matter of opinion, although I admire them for their high morals. Once patents expire, there is no prohibition on copying at all. Interestingly, an somewhat analagous situation existed in the model railroading world until just a few years ago. A company called Kadee came up with a magnetically operated knuckle coupler design in the late 60's. By prominently displaying "patents pending" on the front of their packaging (which turned out to be only patents on the packaging[!]), they actually managed to maintain their monopoly (not to mention their high price) on the design until about 1995. Now, there are about a dozen manufacturers of knockoffs and evolutions of their design, and the price of this type of coupler has come down substantially, purely because someone finally decided to check into the validity of their patents.

In the Byron case, I've never seen any patent claims (except on this web site ;-))on anything, and as I said before given the prior art existing for multi-blade systems, plastic props, and adjustable blades, I doubt any of it would be patentable.

As to my particular situation, not being a Byron Mustang drive owner, I didn't realize before that there are two designs of Byron multiblade props. I unfortunately own the Corsair style of screw-in blade, so Roberto's copies wouldn't be any use to me right now. However, I *am* in the market for one of the Mustang drives, so the minute I get ahold of one I'll be right back here... and if Roberto deside's to make copies of the Corsair-type blade to, I'll be at the top of the list for a couple sets.
Old 03-22-2003, 09:52 AM
  #73  
GPaloz
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Edgewater, FL
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Just post as to when how and where and I'll take a set. Regards G.
Old 05-02-2003, 10:53 PM
  #74  
rcob
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Phoenix,AZ
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Carbonfiber byron mustang blades

Put my name on the list of buying these blades if they are made. Rob [email protected]
Old 05-13-2003, 02:28 PM
  #75  
BigProp
Member
My Feedback: (32)
 
BigProp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Roberto....

Count me in! I need a set too.

-BigProp

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.