Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Warbirds and Warplanes
Reload this Page >

P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Notices
RC Warbirds and Warplanes Discuss rc warbirds and warplanes in this forum.

P-6E Curtis hawk (build thread)

Old 04-12-2014, 10:44 PM
  #1626  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Well, it looks like I most likely found a Keleo exhaust for this, so now I just need to figure out engine and mounting. As I said, I'm leaning toward a DLE-20, and I would think the RA would make for the cleanest installation, but I guess we'll see when the exhaust gets here.

Sure hope Wile E. comes back and answers my drawing questions (still not secure about the PM situation)...

Last edited by RickVB; 04-15-2014 at 11:50 AM.
Old 04-13-2014, 01:58 AM
  #1627  
samparfitt
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (43)
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: West Chester, OH
Posts: 7,161
Likes: 0
Received 30 Likes on 28 Posts
Default

Rick,
no PM's.
Old 04-24-2014, 05:55 PM
  #1628  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

OK, so now I have a set of Keleo exhausts for this plane which I intend to connect to a gas engine. The next question is to powder coat, or go natural aluminum? Grey, or black? What did the prototype do?
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	P6-E Exhaust.jpg
Views:	619
Size:	552.2 KB
ID:	1989699  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:35 PM
  #1629  
radfordc
My Feedback: (14)
 
radfordc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lansing, KS
Posts: 1,598
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

This one at the Air Force museum seems to be natural metal.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	hawk.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	1.51 MB
ID:	1989883  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:59 PM
  #1630  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Yeah, my first thought was to stick with natural metal, but this is aluminum and isn't the real one stainless or maybe even just plain steel?

Also, are any of you who used this exhaust still around, who used it with anything other than an RCV engine? If so, can you describe (or better, post photos) of your setup?
Old 04-28-2014, 10:00 AM
  #1631  
ToolJoint
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upton, WY
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hey Folks,

I'm new here and can't help with the exhaust issues, but I have read the thread in its entirety and have enjoyed the wealth of information located therein. I bought mine in January from a club member. It had about five flights on it with a Saito 150 and three bladed prop. After arrival in my shop, I completely tore it down to inspect and determine airworthy status. The first thing I did was to replace the Futaba S3003 servos with the much more robust HiTec HS5485HB's. Next, I redid the fuel system, and cleaned the tank as the Saito hadn't been started for a couple of years. The previous owner had run the throttle with a cable from the servo area above the wing, and constructed another servo mount for the rudder behind the factory servo mount and cutouts, shortening and re-soldering the rudder pushrod. I didn't like this arrangement, so I mounted a servo in the motor box in front of the firewall with a direct link to the throttle arm. She came equipped with a very nice Dubro vibration dampening engine mount, and as I was re-torquing all engine and mounting bolts, I was pleased to find them all still plenty tight.

On re-assembly, the Saito started easily and ran well in the shop. I was a little concerned about the 3 bladed prop, however as I was only able to attain around 7800 RPM. Plus, it didn't really look all that scale anyway, and I mean I bought it to fly, as well as look at.

So, for my big maiden, I was by myself at our field which is a seldom used full scale airport with a huge shale strip located in a flat area which affords a good runway regardless of wind direction. After a thorough range check and fueling, the Saito started easily. My biplane experience comes from several hours at the sticks of a Hangar 9 Camel with an Enya 120 four stroke for power. The camel, can be cantankerous on landing, and groundhandling, so I was really enjoying the ground handling of the tailwheel equipped Hawk. The wind was variable at maybe 5 knots with occasional gusts to 10 or so.

I pointed her into the current wind and rolled in full power. The tail came up immediately and a touch of right rudder was necessary to maintain heading. After a good roll, a touch of up elevator broke the wheels and a moderate climb was established. With control throws set per the manual at low rates, I was please to see she wasn't real twitchy and responded well to elevator. I banked left and noticed, like the Camel, authoritative rudder is required to make a nice coordinated turn. with only a little right aileron trim, and one "click" of up elevator trim she was flying hands off. I found her to be a slightly waspy in the roll axis, so I think I may take a little throw out, and maybe add just a touch more expo. I made several laps, a loop, and a roll. Which were uneventful and pretty scale like, though that would be hard to judge since I have never seen a full scale P6E in flight and chances are pretty good that is not going to happen. When I took her up to about 3 mistake altitude for slow flight tests, I noticed that if you weren't quick with the rudder she wanted to break either way at the deep stall, though the stall was predictable and required maintaining a high AoA to initiate at slow speeds. I must say I was not overwhelmed by an excess of power. She seemed to lose steam pretty quickly in the climb, and I she was plenty ready to fall over at the top of the loop. I am going to attribute this to the three blade prop, as I'm thinking the big Saito should do better with a two blade...we'll see.

So I set her up for a few low, slow landing approaches and fly bys in preparation to land. On the third pass I committed to the landing using about 1/3 throttle. The wind was a little gusty yet, so a little rudder dance was necessary. I was planning on a wheel landing with power to prevent a nose-over on landing, as this is the only way to land the camel without putting her face in the dirt. I was a little nervous, though not really shaking and was very fixated on the approach and maintaining airspeed so as not to induce a pre-stall roll as I had observed at altitude. Someone had placed a piece of conduit in the flying area with orange tape affixed to it to act as a wind sock. Yes, in my fixation on the approach I hit the conduit (the only vertical object for miles around) with the both right wings. The conduit bent and gave way, as the top wing barely got it, but it spun the plane hard right and dug the left lower wing tip in hard on impact. Somehow, it maintained some semblance of direction, rolled out on her wheels, and came to a stop in about 10 feet, engine idling sweetly as though nothing happened. Something did happen though, both leading edges on the right side were hammered just outside of the interplane struts, the cabanes were knocked loose and one mount was broken at the fuselage intersection. The lower wing alignment piece was broken off where it plugs into the saddle, one nylon wing mount bolt sheared, the left lower wing tip broke off, the shop built rudder servo mount broke free, and the right horizontal stab cracked in a crummy factory glue joint.

All structural repairs have been completed and awaiting recovering, and they weren't too difficult, but I have a good deal of experience with kit building. Needless to say I was pretty sick over the incident, but I am confident in my repairs and happy to say she will be back soon. Great Planes has a great design with this one. Too bad it is out of production.

I look forward to many more flights with many less "dumb thumb" incidents.
Old 04-28-2014, 10:47 AM
  #1632  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hey TJ, thanks for the rundown on your (painful) first flight; sorry to hear about that. Just my opinion, but if I were you, from now on if I were the only one at your field, I would stand about 2 feet from that wind sock pole when flying.

Can you post some photos of your repairs, just so we can see what the uncovered framing looks like? By the way, what size is that three-blade prop? I flew an H9 Taylorcraft on a Saito 150 and a two-blade prop for a while; it was plenty aerobatic with great vertical capability, but on the other hand it was probably 2 or 3 pounds lighter.
Old 04-28-2014, 02:10 PM
  #1633  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Wow I sure wish Bryan Austin (CurtissHawkP6E) was still around to answer prototype questions (he started posting here on page 21). His website and forum are also gone. Does anyone know what happened to him?
Old 05-01-2014, 02:08 PM
  #1634  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

So I ordered a DLE-20RA for this build, from Troy Built Models, and I was just checking the UPS Tracking Details. Sarasota to Tampa to Jacksonville to Unadilla to Chattanooga to Knoxville to Maumee, and it's not even here yet. How did they ship it, Pony Express??
Old 05-01-2014, 06:44 PM
  #1635  
kochj
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Victoria, MN
Posts: 3,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ToolJoint
Hey Folks,

the left lower wing tip broke off, the shop built rudder servo mount broke free, and the right horizontal stab cracked in a crummy factory glue joint.

All structural repairs have been completed and awaiting recovering, and they weren't too difficult, but I have a good deal of experience with kit building. Needless to say I was pretty sick over the incident, but I am confident in my repairs and happy to say she will be back soon. Great Planes has a great design with this one. Too bad it is out of production.

I look forward to many more flights with many less "dumb thumb" incidents.


FYI
TOWERHobbies Has the FUSE and the BOTTOM wing on CLOSEOUT.....
Get BOTH for 84$.....so about 40 $ for each part.... I already ordered the last set of ver/hor. stabs, bottom wing, and Fuse..... I may order a fuse and bottom wing anyway.....

Also... the reason for CRUMMY factory glue joints is: LASER cutting seals the wood! leaves funny curfs on plywood, and needs prep to be able to be CA'd..... but of course China doesn't because it is too time consuming....

I read you have built before....but I didn't realize that Laser cutting had so many Neg's to it....:" thought it was the cats ass".... but realize that CNC'd routing is TRUELY the way to go....


GP is now coming out with a small electric version of this plane....... HMM.....
I would really like to see a 30-50cc size version of this....THat would be cool... Or some other old BIPE in the 50cc size....
NO ONE HAS ANY..... It is a UN taped market.... in a very competitive field....you need to think outside the box...if you are going to survive...
Old 05-01-2014, 07:03 PM
  #1636  
Ram-bro
My Feedback: (101)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bennington, NE
Posts: 5,816
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

if anyone wants a Royal P6e Hawk, framed . covered but not finished I have forsale in the Market place
Old 05-01-2014, 09:29 PM
  #1637  
johnboy151a
My Feedback: (68)
 
johnboy151a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Killeen, TX
Posts: 237
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Ram-bro, do you have any pics of the Royal kit/plane?

John
Old 05-02-2014, 02:22 AM
  #1638  
Ram-bro
My Feedback: (101)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bennington, NE
Posts: 5,816
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

here http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemID=977334
Old 05-02-2014, 01:51 PM
  #1639  
turbofixer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: ontario, CA
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I have a NIB Hawk for sale over on the rc groups for sale section
Old 05-02-2014, 11:37 PM
  #1640  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The DLE-20RA showed up today, so I finally unpacked the Hawk fuse and cowl to see how it would fit.

As you can see, in the cowl this almost looks like a joke. You'd think from this picture that this was a .60 glow engine, if it weren't for the plug. The picture doesn't even do it justice - there's gobs of room for an engine of this size in the upright position. There's at least 3/4" above the plug, and all kinds of space in front of the head. There's enough space above that I am thinking of opening the upper intake and turning it into a cool air duct for the carb, if I can figure a way to route it around the exhaust.

I set up the fuse and test fit the engine with the Hangar 9 Ultra Motor Mount set I intend to use rather than the stock one (to allow more clear space around the carb), and I will need 1/4" standoffs to get it to reach the front of the cowl. In other words, it fits perfectly. For the heck of it, I pulled out an Enya 1.20 4-stroke I have, and fit it on the same mount, and it appears with some creative exhaust routing it too would fit in the upright position. Clearly many engines would fit in this position. And I won't have to cut any part of the cowl, other than the slots to install the Keleo exhaust (and to open the upper duct intake).

Early in this thread a few guys asked about upright motor mounting, and were immediately told it wouldn't fit without cutting the cowl to bits, and that cooling would be impossible. Well, the first is demonstrably false, and the second I intend to disprove over the next few weeks.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	DLE-20RA-P-6ECowl.jpg
Views:	585
Size:	91.5 KB
ID:	1992063  
Old 05-03-2014, 09:28 AM
  #1641  
ToolJoint
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upton, WY
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RickVB
Hey TJ, thanks for the rundown on your (painful) first flight; sorry to hear about that. Just my opinion, but if I were you, from now on if I were the only one at your field, I would stand about 2 feet from that wind sock pole when flying.

Can you post some photos of your repairs, just so we can see what the uncovered framing looks like? By the way, what size is that three-blade prop? I flew an H9 Taylorcraft on a Saito 150 and a two-blade prop for a while; it was plenty aerobatic with great vertical capability, but on the other hand it was probably 2 or 3 pounds lighter.
Yes, yes indeed I should have "posted up" next to the stupid windsock...believe it or not, you are not the first to suggest this

Here are some pictures of the inside structures. I was pretty impressed with the quality of this thing. As you can see there are sheeted leading edges, a beautiful box spar, capped ribs, and webbed re-enforcements. Ram Bro is correct, the glue failure in the stab is the result of a weird kerf and improper glue penetration, though I saw no indication of laser cutting. More later, but I have to get to the field today to enjoy some awesome flying weather, instead of flying this computer. Best Regards Hawk pilots!
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	TIPII.jpg
Views:	681
Size:	2.30 MB
ID:	1992142   Click image for larger version

Name:	Horizontal Stab.jpg
Views:	659
Size:	2.17 MB
ID:	1992143   Click image for larger version

Name:	Lower Leading Edge.jpg
Views:	609
Size:	1.81 MB
ID:	1992144   Click image for larger version

Name:	Wingtip.jpg
Views:	630
Size:	2.15 MB
ID:	1992145  
Old 05-06-2014, 09:01 AM
  #1642  
ToolJoint
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upton, WY
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Rick,

That engine looks like it has puhlenty of elbow room in there. The three bladed prop on mine is a Master Airscrew 1570; I assume that means it is a 15x7? Whatever, he will not be attending the next flight with me as I stand out next the windsock...ha. I am installing an APC 16x8 two blade as per Saito and see how she likes that. Also, I am running Cool Power blend with 15% Nitro and 18% oil. Finished all the covering last night, and got started on the rudder servo mount re-do. I am using Sullivan blue and yellow rods for this, threading the blue jacket through the fuselage was not all that fun really. Almost there.......
Old 05-08-2014, 07:55 AM
  #1643  
kochj
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Victoria, MN
Posts: 3,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ToolJoint
Yes, yes indeed I should have "posted up" next to the stupid windsock...believe it or not, you are not the first to suggest this

Here are some pictures of the inside structures. I was pretty impressed with the quality of this thing. As you can see there are sheeted leading edges, a beautiful box spar, capped ribs, and webbed re-enforcements. Ram Bro is correct, the glue failure in the stab is the result of a weird kerf and improper glue penetration, though I saw no indication of laser cutting. More later, but I have to get to the field today to enjoy some awesome flying weather, instead of flying this computer. Best Regards Hawk pilots!
Wow....
Not sure if due to the struts, but it appears that hardwood or plywood was used in the spars???////

Looks really nice inside there....It really does...
Old 05-12-2014, 07:13 AM
  #1644  
ToolJoint
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upton, WY
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Well, She's back and ready for action, if the sun would only come out, and the wind would decrease to less than about 40 knots. I took the time to install cockpit combing made from 1/4' rubber fuel hose. I know, I couldn't find any pictures of a real Hawk with the combing, but I thought it added a nice touch to the cockpit area.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	cpcombing.jpg
Views:	761
Size:	2.20 MB
ID:	1994721   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hawkrepaired.jpg
Views:	776
Size:	2.49 MB
ID:	1994723  
Old 05-12-2014, 07:34 AM
  #1645  
Lancaster 52
My Feedback: (72)
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Reinholds, PA
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default



Nice rebuild, watch out for those poles on the field,
I see your an oddball like me and fly Airtronics!
Great radio system and so easy to set up, never a glitch either.
My Hawk has a Zenoah G-26 with electronic ignition has ample power with a little extra in case you need it.
It flies and lands great, on my first flight the engine quit on me when I went knife edge and the P-6E just floated around like a high wing trainer!
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2538.JPG
Views:	681
Size:	3.89 MB
ID:	1994727  
Old 05-12-2014, 02:18 PM
  #1646  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

That's one heckova scarf on that guy...
Old 05-12-2014, 08:46 PM
  #1647  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Lancaster 52
I see your an oddball like me and fly Airtronics!
Did someone say Airtronics?
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Airtronics CS7.jpg
Views:	550
Size:	108.0 KB
ID:	1994866  
Old 05-13-2014, 07:12 AM
  #1648  
ToolJoint
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upton, WY
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Rick, that guy sporting the genuine silk scarf may need to blow his nose several times per sortie, plus he needs to "look cool for the babes (or Barb's)" on the low fly-bys. Yes, I fly the RDS 8000 which has proven to be rock solid, and as Lancaster stated, super easy to set up and never so much as a hick-up. I do however, wish there was expo on the rudder. It doesn't seem to be a factor on The Hawk, and definitely not on the Camel which requires swift and judicious use of rudder. I also fly a 50CC Revolver though, and the rudder on that thing is super touchy, so some of my takeoffs and passes look a little "troutish" if you get what I'm saying. My flying buddies say that is a lack of skill, and after smacking the pole with the Hawk, I would be hard pressed to refute that, for a while anyway.
Rick, that's quite a radio there...We fly with an older gent here who uses nothing but old Kraft radio sets that look pretty similar to that. He even has a 2.4 conversion in one. So, he has a single stick for elevator and aileron with a knob on top as in the example shown, for rudder. Then, he holds it like a baby in his left arm and controls the throttle with what looks like a slider switch on the right side of the transmitter with the fingers of his left hand. Here's the thing...he is a brilliant man, very successful, and that success is evident by the vast array of huge and beautiful aircraft he has brought to the field and fly-ins. Beautiful radial engines, gas and glow....awe inspiring warbirds and civilian kit-builts and ARFs. The first time I saw him fly, I helped him assemble a monstrous scratch built Ford Trimotor with 3 Saito 91 three cylinder radials. He told me had a machine shop in his work shop and designed a tool to fab the thin, corrugated aluminum skin in which it was covered. Truly a masterpiece of art and engineering. After we spent about 30 minutes coaxing all of the Saito's into running on his home-brew fuel ("Why that's pure idiocy to pay for that fuel, when it's so easy to make your own" ...another story and likely contribution to constant flame outs, seized engines and forced landings) he took her to the sky, and promptly returned it to earth in its new form of fuel soaked matchsticks, torn aluminum, shards, and wiring. After seeing the same thing happen to a Giant TopFlite Corsair, P-47, AeorWorks C-195, Stinson SR-9, B-25 - twin G20's on that jewel, a giant T-6 (see video), and a few other aborted takeoffs, crowd scattering erratic swerving, and various crashes, I asked about his radio systems. I foolishly pointed out that there have been some wonderful advancements in radio technology in the last few year and that there is some really good stuff being put out by Spectrum, Futaba, HiTec, and Airtronics that works really well. He became quite cross with me and told me nothing flies like a Kraft, and I should just mind my own beeswax when it comes to radios. Indeed, I have seen that nothing flies like a Kraft. It is pretty fun minding my own business actually. Different strokes, I guess.

Happy Flying
http://youtu.be/0usZHoINm0c

Last edited by ToolJoint; 05-13-2014 at 07:17 AM. Reason: Added video
Old 05-13-2014, 12:44 PM
  #1649  
RickVB
My Feedback: (24)
 
RickVB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Tool, is that you or your friend with the Kraft?

The Airtronics CS7SS that is pictured above is my first radio, purchased new when I started flying R/C in 1984. I have not flown with it in many years (probably 20 now), however Pete Waters went over it a few years back and narrow-banded it, so it's probably still good to go. The functionality is exactly like you described for your friend's Kraft. I felt then (still do now) that the main three on one hand and everything else on the other is more natural to use, and thus easier. However, the majority of you guys feel differently, and the single-stick design all but disappeared, so I've been Mode 2 like most everyone else since about 1990.

I think I'll drag out my old trainer soon, put a new battery in the single-stick, and see how it goes.
Old 05-13-2014, 04:01 PM
  #1650  
SunShyne
My Feedback: (68)
 
SunShyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Centreville, VA
Posts: 4,207
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Friends

If anyone has any leads on a NIB Cowl I would appreciate the info. Mine is going to get cleaned up a bit and I am going gas and want a fresh cowl. Hard to find, I know..

Thanks

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.