Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
11-17-2006, 12:07 PM
#351
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Me again! It occurred to me that sometimes we forget that the most valuable part of these threads are the screw-ups that YOU make and warn ME about so I don't pull the same bonehead stunt! (I think I did pull a bonehead once!!!???) Or the little hints and kinks that can make someone elses life a bit easier. John, I hearby nominate you to document your "repair" project, a few pics of progress, how you did a particular "fix-it", anything to make "my" life easier!! Lee
11-17-2006, 12:18 PM
#352
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Haha Lee, there will be tons of info on how to fix it I suppose... Ill do what I can, its just basically going to be a sand the whole thing back down to wood practically and start the finish process over.. Good thing I paid them a bunch of extra money to do that for me 
I feel warm and fuzzy.. LOL
Right now Im so sick of all the money I got screwed out of on this bird Im just looking at it, or trying not to look at it.. in a couple months maybe Ill have the time to do it, that was the point in paying all the money, was so I didnt have to do this. ya know!
Either way, Ill post it up here.
Hows that tailwheel btw Lee?
Thanks
JV
I feel warm and fuzzy.. LOLRight now Im so sick of all the money I got screwed out of on this bird Im just looking at it, or trying not to look at it.. in a couple months maybe Ill have the time to do it, that was the point in paying all the money, was so I didnt have to do this. ya know!
Either way, Ill post it up here.
Hows that tailwheel btw Lee?
Thanks
JV
11-17-2006, 12:26 PM
#354
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Hi Tom!
I currently fly at www.bellairflyers.com up here N of Bellingham..Check out the images page, pictures I took of the big bird and our warbird event are there for you to look over!
I was down there for your guys scale event, I know Roberto, Richard, Kirk.. etc.... THere are a few of us, we were all going to get these birds done about the same time, but as you can tell, probably not happening now.. A few others bought gas warbirds too soo.....
But feel free to come up for any of our events, and we will come down to yours!
I used to live in Auburn and was a memeber of the RAMS a couple years ago too btw..
I currently fly at www.bellairflyers.com up here N of Bellingham..Check out the images page, pictures I took of the big bird and our warbird event are there for you to look over!
I was down there for your guys scale event, I know Roberto, Richard, Kirk.. etc.... THere are a few of us, we were all going to get these birds done about the same time, but as you can tell, probably not happening now.. A few others bought gas warbirds too soo.....
But feel free to come up for any of our events, and we will come down to yours!
I used to live in Auburn and was a memeber of the RAMS a couple years ago too btw..
11-17-2006, 12:53 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
John, I apologize, but I didn't get to it this week. I am trying to finish up this first group of rotators to get them in the mail by Monday, and then I'll do the tailwheel first thing! Lee
11-17-2006, 05:36 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Me forget?? An old ex-absent-minded professor??? Oh--that's right--I already did!!! I'll take advantage of your good will and sneak in a week or two on this retract backlog. I did dig out the gear and some parts today to check on what I needed to do to upgrade it. Not too difficult, but I have some little upgrades I want to do to make it easier to build and operate. Thanks. Lee
11-18-2006, 01:35 AM
#359
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
ORIGINAL: JohnVH
I was down there for your guys scale event, I know Roberto, Richard, Kirk.. etc.... THere are a few of us, we were all going to get these birds done about the same time, but as you can tell, probably not happening now.. A few others bought gas warbirds too soo.....
I was down there for your guys scale event, I know Roberto, Richard, Kirk.. etc.... THere are a few of us, we were all going to get these birds done about the same time, but as you can tell, probably not happening now.. A few others bought gas warbirds too soo.....
Tom
11-18-2006, 04:15 AM
#360
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix
Wow, all I can say is the photography of the build in this thread is amazing. It all really looks professinally done in the pictures I've seen on here.
Unfortunately, that's about where it ends. I just happened upon the pictures of John's bearcat that are posted in his online gallery. All I can say is that in the end John is a better man than I would be. I would have been demanding not only my build money back but all the dollars I'd invested in the kit, build etc. I'm sure it's salvagable, and John is a very good builder so I'm sure he will be able to make a diamond out of this lump of coal, but it's going to take hours to do so. I can't believe that a professional builder (and yes, if you are taking money in order to build something for somebody on contract I think that SHOULD qualify you as a professional builder) would send a model out that looks like this! Here are a couple of the pictures that just blew me away!
Fantastic cowl to fuse fit here, nice even gaps, love the extra filler and pinholes in there
Great fiberglass seams, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, just like the edge there
I don't even know what to say here.............
very realistic battle damage here, looks like it already missed the carrier hook and had to hit the net
smooth as a baby's bottom, maybe with diaper rash....
umm........... I'm speechless..........
this is rough even for drywall taping!
Ok, I'll stop there......... There are tons more pictures that I could pick apart, but what's the point. Sure I'm being a dick about this, but come on, this is amatuer work at BEST. It's not like you built this thing for free. This in my view is unacceptable, of course it's between you and John but the right thing to do would be to step up and admit that this build was maybe not within your current build capabilities, either that or you just didn't care about it enough to take the time to do it correctly. John might be to nice to post on here and say this thing looks awful, but I'm not. It's junk man, the pictures in the build thread really don't do this justice, amazing how the right camera angle and lighting can hide all but the absolute worst flaws.
Nicely done, I can see there is a future in modelling for you
As I say, I hope John can make something nice out of this, but as it used to say in your signature line "you can't polish a turd" I'm starting to understand why you asked for the thread to be locked in post 329 now
Wow, all I can say is the photography of the build in this thread is amazing. It all really looks professinally done in the pictures I've seen on here.
Unfortunately, that's about where it ends. I just happened upon the pictures of John's bearcat that are posted in his online gallery. All I can say is that in the end John is a better man than I would be. I would have been demanding not only my build money back but all the dollars I'd invested in the kit, build etc. I'm sure it's salvagable, and John is a very good builder so I'm sure he will be able to make a diamond out of this lump of coal, but it's going to take hours to do so. I can't believe that a professional builder (and yes, if you are taking money in order to build something for somebody on contract I think that SHOULD qualify you as a professional builder) would send a model out that looks like this! Here are a couple of the pictures that just blew me away!
Fantastic cowl to fuse fit here, nice even gaps, love the extra filler and pinholes in there
Great fiberglass seams, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, just like the edge there
I don't even know what to say here.............
very realistic battle damage here, looks like it already missed the carrier hook and had to hit the net
smooth as a baby's bottom, maybe with diaper rash....
umm........... I'm speechless..........
this is rough even for drywall taping!
Ok, I'll stop there......... There are tons more pictures that I could pick apart, but what's the point. Sure I'm being a dick about this, but come on, this is amatuer work at BEST. It's not like you built this thing for free. This in my view is unacceptable, of course it's between you and John but the right thing to do would be to step up and admit that this build was maybe not within your current build capabilities, either that or you just didn't care about it enough to take the time to do it correctly. John might be to nice to post on here and say this thing looks awful, but I'm not. It's junk man, the pictures in the build thread really don't do this justice, amazing how the right camera angle and lighting can hide all but the absolute worst flaws.
Nicely done, I can see there is a future in modelling for you
As I say, I hope John can make something nice out of this, but as it used to say in your signature line "you can't polish a turd" I'm starting to understand why you asked for the thread to be locked in post 329 now
JohnVH, I hate that this has happened to you. I know very much how bad you have been wanting a Bearcat. I can only imagine the heart sinking feeling you must have had when you opened the crate on this one....especially after spending over 2 Grand on an aircraft that is suppose to be ready for paint.
If a man is trying to gain an reputation as a builder, why on Earth would he produce garbage like this???
11-21-2006, 07:44 PM
#361
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
I feel bad for JohnVH. It's criminal for someone to take money for such a horrible building and finishing job. The aileron fit is most disturbing as it will obviously impact the flight performance. That's the telling photo that wulf190 has no understanding of model building or basic aerodynamics.
It just goes to show you, if you have someone build a plane for you, pick someone driving distance away to monitor their progress. And if you come across someone that goes by wulf190, tell him he's incompetent. I'm not going to speculate weather he's a crook or not.
It just goes to show you, if you have someone build a plane for you, pick someone driving distance away to monitor their progress. And if you come across someone that goes by wulf190, tell him he's incompetent. I'm not going to speculate weather he's a crook or not.
11-25-2006, 09:05 AM
#362
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Wow... sorry to see that John, you got burned. Next time your looking to have a warbird built, I have a guy in Ohio that does amazing work. I would be more than happy to pass his information on to you.
11-25-2006, 06:15 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
So....what happened to the other Bearcat this guy was building (I can't remember who it was for)? Anyone know?
Chris
Chris
11-25-2006, 07:17 PM
#365
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
GEE---I thought ARF was what a dog says!!! I've been a builder for about 70 years, and it's hard to change spots after that long. But
I have watch myself there, as Spad Man, Mark Leffler, is going to frame up my TF Corsair, as I have not time to build! All the gear
customers are keeping me out of mischief!!~ By the way, John, any gear installation questions, or any adjustments needed, give me a shout. I am trying to squeeze in that tailwheel. I may have some pics later in the week. Lee
I have watch myself there, as Spad Man, Mark Leffler, is going to frame up my TF Corsair, as I have not time to build! All the gear
customers are keeping me out of mischief!!~ By the way, John, any gear installation questions, or any adjustments needed, give me a shout. I am trying to squeeze in that tailwheel. I may have some pics later in the week. Lee
11-26-2006, 10:37 PM
#367
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Well, it appears that the builders last post really was the one in this thread. Absolutely sad that you can't own up to any of this. In the end the very least you could have done was make a statement like....
"yes John, I screwed up, you didn't get what you should have, but I don't have the money to give you anything back, I'm sorry"
I bet John and 90% of the people here would have figured ok, lesson learned, but at least he was upfront in the end and appologized for the poor work.
Instead you make a statement that makes it look like you are trying to turn it around and put the blame on John somehow, I have no clue how you could even begin to fabricate how a crappy build is ANYONE else's fault. At this point I really do hope John takes whatever action he can to get reimbursed for his losses.
"yes John, I screwed up, you didn't get what you should have, but I don't have the money to give you anything back, I'm sorry"
I bet John and 90% of the people here would have figured ok, lesson learned, but at least he was upfront in the end and appologized for the poor work.
Instead you make a statement that makes it look like you are trying to turn it around and put the blame on John somehow, I have no clue how you could even begin to fabricate how a crappy build is ANYONE else's fault. At this point I really do hope John takes whatever action he can to get reimbursed for his losses.
12-15-2006, 12:01 AM
#370
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
JohnVH,
Dude I read this whole thing just to be let down. What happened really sucks. I feel for you. I have had a similar expeience with a "Builder". All I can say is that the two planes I paid to have built are still not done.They are back in my posession and I am slowly re-doing them. So I learend my lesson.Sorry to see it happen to some one else. I hope you get it fixed. The "Bear" is a *****en airplane.
Regards,
Flakbait
Dude I read this whole thing just to be let down. What happened really sucks. I feel for you. I have had a similar expeience with a "Builder". All I can say is that the two planes I paid to have built are still not done.They are back in my posession and I am slowly re-doing them. So I learend my lesson.Sorry to see it happen to some one else. I hope you get it fixed. The "Bear" is a *****en airplane.
Regards,
Flakbait
12-15-2006, 08:13 AM
#371
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
John,
Man I would have never sent a plane out saying it was finished like this.I hope you can get what is owed to you from this guy and get your bearcat fixed or another one done like you wanted it.I have had so much fun flying mine that me and my wife built in 1986. (she traced the parts on to the wood and I cut them out)I have now retired it due to have just wore it out to the point the hinges were starting to break off. I now have a new one about ready to coverand can't hardly wait.
Good Luck Todd
Man I would have never sent a plane out saying it was finished like this.I hope you can get what is owed to you from this guy and get your bearcat fixed or another one done like you wanted it.I have had so much fun flying mine that me and my wife built in 1986. (she traced the parts on to the wood and I cut them out)I have now retired it due to have just wore it out to the point the hinges were starting to break off. I now have a new one about ready to coverand can't hardly wait.
Good Luck Todd
12-15-2006, 11:01 AM
#372
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Yeah, thanks guys.... its hard you know, hobby money doesnt grow on tree's, and then someone like this takes advantage of you on top of it... not alot of fun. He wont make things right, and I feel sorry for anyone else that has them build anything for them..
Merry Christmas to all the upstanding modellers out there!
Merry Christmas to all the upstanding modellers out there!
12-20-2006, 11:54 PM
#374
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
WOW!
I hadn't visited this thread in a few months. It really got nasty in a hurry!
At the risk of being labeled a "SHILL," isn't there some way you guys could work things out without repeated "curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass?"
Since resigning myself to the fact I don't have enough time to build all the planes I want, I have bought several warbirds, some from the biggest names in the RC business. Let me tell you something: THEY ALL HAVE FLAWS! Since I like near-perfect condition before daring to fly, I have spent many hours fixing everything from hinges to servos to motor mounts to finish to linkages.
I wound up with great planes, and I guess I just considered the imperfections to be the price of not building them myself.
I have found a broad spectrum in quality in RC builders/flyers, but very few bad guys, so I don't understand why y'all got so vicious because of what looks like minor stuff. I get a sense in the middle pages of the thread that there was a squabble over ??money, time, gear?? Is that where the bad blood started?
Regardless, I think good construction threads that degenerate into "curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass" are demeaning to RC and RCU.
Average Joe's like me would much rather see the thread continue as an educational vector for how to fix imperfections, or do things differently, NOT a repeated exchange of the same insults. That kind of stuff just makes me want to find another internet site.
Sincerely,
mt
I hadn't visited this thread in a few months. It really got nasty in a hurry!
At the risk of being labeled a "SHILL," isn't there some way you guys could work things out without repeated "curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass?"
Since resigning myself to the fact I don't have enough time to build all the planes I want, I have bought several warbirds, some from the biggest names in the RC business. Let me tell you something: THEY ALL HAVE FLAWS! Since I like near-perfect condition before daring to fly, I have spent many hours fixing everything from hinges to servos to motor mounts to finish to linkages.
I wound up with great planes, and I guess I just considered the imperfections to be the price of not building them myself.
I have found a broad spectrum in quality in RC builders/flyers, but very few bad guys, so I don't understand why y'all got so vicious because of what looks like minor stuff. I get a sense in the middle pages of the thread that there was a squabble over ??money, time, gear?? Is that where the bad blood started?
Regardless, I think good construction threads that degenerate into "curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass" are demeaning to RC and RCU.
Average Joe's like me would much rather see the thread continue as an educational vector for how to fix imperfections, or do things differently, NOT a repeated exchange of the same insults. That kind of stuff just makes me want to find another internet site.
Sincerely,
mt
12-21-2006, 12:26 AM
#375
RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
There was no degenerating of this thread into curse, flame etc etc. Did you look at the pictures of what John received? That is hardly "flawed", it is absolute junk. He paid more to have this aircraft built than any warbird ARF I've seen, he should have received a "professional build".
Further to that, regarding your comment of:
John has made many attempts to contact the builder with no response. There hasn't been anything said here that hasn't been backed up with proof, pictures etc. I don't consider anything in the pictures posted to be "minor stuff". It's all pretty major, and if I had paid a so called professional builder to complete an aircraft to me to the "ready for paint" stage, I would absolutely expect it to be ready for paint, at least the parts should fit together!
Further to that, regarding your comment of:
isn't there some way you guys could work things out without repeated "curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass?"