Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
11-17-2005, 03:26 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
ORIGINAL: wulf190
Didn't look close enough Todd, it's there. Just found my first mistake. All confident and everything I put down rib 6R (one of the additional retract ribs) on the spot of rib 6 on the plans, forgetting to put the retract plan down on top of the plans for reference on this side which means that 6R is now about 8mm too wide which accounts for the cuts in the spars being off slightly.[:@][:@] No problems, really, I was able to cut it loose and slide it down to it's proper spot and then I just replaced the rear spars that seemed to be out of line. I knew it was going along too smoothly!
Didn't look close enough Todd, it's there. Just found my first mistake. All confident and everything I put down rib 6R (one of the additional retract ribs) on the spot of rib 6 on the plans, forgetting to put the retract plan down on top of the plans for reference on this side which means that 6R is now about 8mm too wide which accounts for the cuts in the spars being off slightly.[:@][:@] No problems, really, I was able to cut it loose and slide it down to it's proper spot and then I just replaced the rear spars that seemed to be out of line. I knew it was going along too smoothly!
just great! I am now revoking your membership at RCSB
11-17-2005, 04:21 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
If you do, I'm going to have to go into therapy Toddster. I spent a little while fixing the problem today and got it back to normal. This side now actually is a bit straighter than the first and they're both the way they should be and I didn't even break anything! But geez Todd, what are you slipping or something......I'll have to get a better camera for you 
. I replaced all the spliced spars and got a nice fit in there the way it should be. It's not the kit....It's just me!!
11-17-2005, 04:25 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Forgot the pics of today's progress so far. I've got a second pair of hands working on the fin and stab surfaces now. It'll get framed up fast.
11-17-2005, 11:02 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Forgot to mention I got to add my first real blood to the project today when putting things in order here, plunging the #11 xacto into the fleshy part of my thumb and setting a Dan Akroyd plays Julia Childs type blood storm going. Good thing the CA was handy!![sm=surprised.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]. Managed to keep it off the airframe though Jim! I'll try to leave that part off for you.
Feeling good again about it after looking it over again tonight. It was tough to read the plans in this area and made for tougher going as there's separate views on each of the plan sheets, each showing only partial display of the area in question. It all went together great though and is nice and straight and strong so far, so I'll keep pressing forward tomorrow. Making good progress so far.
Feeling good again about it after looking it over again tonight. It was tough to read the plans in this area and made for tougher going as there's separate views on each of the plan sheets, each showing only partial display of the area in question. It all went together great though and is nice and straight and strong so far, so I'll keep pressing forward tomorrow. Making good progress so far.
11-17-2005, 11:26 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Ehhh, no biggie. Just consider it part of the blood,sweat and tears.LOL. CA is the best bandage on the market,thats for sure.
11-18-2005, 11:20 AM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Thumb seems like it's going to be able to get through the ordeal without a stitch so feeling saucy today after the band-aid was off. This was my first CA band-aid try too, and it did work great. A little aspirin and good as new.
I got some word on a question about the tailplane incidence on this plane and that if it might need to be adjusted. I had a Stearman that had this issue and I sure wish I would have known about it up front as it made for some hairy trimming on the first flight, something I wouldn't wish on anyone else. So if anyone knows anything about that experience, speak up now while the fuse isn't framed up yet.
The rest of the wing pieces and sheeting being made today....pics at the end of the day's progress.
Cowboy, I'll measure the cowl for you and give you the dimensions. It's big. I don't think you would have a problem.
Mike
I got some word on a question about the tailplane incidence on this plane and that if it might need to be adjusted. I had a Stearman that had this issue and I sure wish I would have known about it up front as it made for some hairy trimming on the first flight, something I wouldn't wish on anyone else. So if anyone knows anything about that experience, speak up now while the fuse isn't framed up yet.
The rest of the wing pieces and sheeting being made today....pics at the end of the day's progress.
Cowboy, I'll measure the cowl for you and give you the dimensions. It's big. I don't think you would have a problem.
Mike
11-18-2005, 12:49 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
ORIGINAL: wulf190
I got some word on a question about the tailplane incidence on this plane and that if it might need to be adjusted. I had a Stearman that had this issue and I sure wish I would have known about it up front as it made for some hairy trimming on the first flight, something I wouldn't wish on anyone else. So if anyone knows anything about that experience, speak up now while the fuse isn't framed up yet.
Mike
I got some word on a question about the tailplane incidence on this plane and that if it might need to be adjusted. I had a Stearman that had this issue and I sure wish I would have known about it up front as it made for some hairy trimming on the first flight, something I wouldn't wish on anyone else. So if anyone knows anything about that experience, speak up now while the fuse isn't framed up yet.
Mike
I noticed on the plans for the ZERO, there was no incedences called out. I emailed Ziroli, and got answer with the incedence info within a couple of hours. Now I have real numbers to check it out and set to.
11-18-2005, 03:15 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
ORIGINAL: wulf190
Thumb seems like it's going to be able to get through the ordeal without a stitch so feeling saucy today after the band-aid was off. This was my first CA band-aid try too, and it did work great. A little aspirin and good as new.
I got some word on a question about the tailplane incidence on this plane and that if it might need to be adjusted. I had a Stearman that had this issue and I sure wish I would have known about it up front as it made for some hairy trimming on the first flight, something I wouldn't wish on anyone else. So if anyone knows anything about that experience, speak up now while the fuse isn't framed up yet.
The rest of the wing pieces and sheeting being made today....pics at the end of the day's progress.
Cowboy, I'll measure the cowl for you and give you the dimensions. It's big. I don't think you would have a problem.
Mike
Thumb seems like it's going to be able to get through the ordeal without a stitch so feeling saucy today after the band-aid was off. This was my first CA band-aid try too, and it did work great. A little aspirin and good as new.
I got some word on a question about the tailplane incidence on this plane and that if it might need to be adjusted. I had a Stearman that had this issue and I sure wish I would have known about it up front as it made for some hairy trimming on the first flight, something I wouldn't wish on anyone else. So if anyone knows anything about that experience, speak up now while the fuse isn't framed up yet.
The rest of the wing pieces and sheeting being made today....pics at the end of the day's progress.
Cowboy, I'll measure the cowl for you and give you the dimensions. It's big. I don't think you would have a problem.
Mike
I too remember reading somewhere about the incidence needing to be adjusted on the airplane. I think it has too much Negative cause I'm pretty sure guys were having trouble with it wanting to jump off the ground and try to keep climbing.
11-18-2005, 03:22 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Jim,
I just read through the posts and found that a pretty common recommendation. I emailed Nick about it too, but as I have an incidence meter here, I'm inclined to build it with 1 degree of opposite incidence in it to counteract that. It was REALLY hairy on the first flight with my Stearman and even with all the down trim added, I still had to hold it down a bit, not fun. So I'll plan on that for the set up and we can zero out the elevator on the ground first.
EXCELLENT thing a good build thread is for here. Thanks for the heads up all.
I just read through the posts and found that a pretty common recommendation. I emailed Nick about it too, but as I have an incidence meter here, I'm inclined to build it with 1 degree of opposite incidence in it to counteract that. It was REALLY hairy on the first flight with my Stearman and even with all the down trim added, I still had to hold it down a bit, not fun. So I'll plan on that for the set up and we can zero out the elevator on the ground first.
EXCELLENT thing a good build thread is for here. Thanks for the heads up all.
11-18-2005, 09:48 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Waiting for the epoxy to dry now, as I need the clamps for other stuff, so here's a couple of pics of the laminations at the retract mount and installation of some of the carbon fiber strips to reinforce. Have more of this on the way to laminate all the ribs around the mounts with. Also got confirmation from Nick about the incidence issue. We're right with the thinking on the setup. Great to know.
11-19-2005, 01:45 AM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Cut, fit and mounted the retract rails tonight and installed the hardwood hatch rails for the aileron servo hatches. Still to do the flap hatch rails and then it appears that the plans tell me to sheet the lower outboard portion of the wings. That'll be fun. I figure I'm going to just line the whole retract box inside and out with carbon fiber sheets. That ought to strengthen things up nicely there.
11-19-2005, 08:34 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Thought you guys might want to see my enlarged Ziroli Bear Cat 100 inch w/s weight 40 pounds retracts by Sierri flies good
11-19-2005, 08:42 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Forgot to mention the fuse is two piece slip jointed epoxy glass with a wing saddle.
Spent six months building plugs and molds was glad to see it in the air this fall .
Spent six months building plugs and molds was glad to see it in the air this fall .
11-19-2005, 10:25 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Great work on that fuse [sm=thumbup.gif]. Excellent glass. Didn't get a whole lot done today as my wife was around the whole day and we took in the new Harry Potter movie. Got the flap hatch rails installed and a wing sheet made was all. Nothing to post pics of though.
11-20-2005, 10:04 AM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Wulf 190 be sure and sheet the bottom of wing first then place back on rib shims to retain wash out in tips .If you sheet top first you will most likely wind up with a twisted wing . Also check wing ribs with stright edge to check for high and low ribs.
Most of the time nicks wing ribs need some block sanding to get a uniform height .
Good luck with build .
Most of the time nicks wing ribs need some block sanding to get a uniform height .
Good luck with build .
11-20-2005, 10:30 AM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Thanks Mold. I was looking over things last night to see if things look good for sheeting. The fit is great and there's very few spots that need attending to. The plans show pretty clearly the methodology for sheeting. Just, as you say, put the wing back on the plan with the shim, and sheet the top after the bottom. I agreed with your assessment when I looked things over, seeing that putting it back in position on the shim would help to sheet in the necessary washout. The washout is definitely noticeable when examining the wing panels already and that's comforting. It seems like it should be great when it's sheeted. Evan's website pictures are very good for this process. I should have the bottom of the wings sheeted later today and be getting ready to get the top sheeted after putting in the wing mount blocks and pieces for the control surfaces and horns. Still looking good to have the wing completely framed up by the end of the week. I couldn't believe how strong the framed up ribs and spars are. It's very rigid compared to most wings at this stage, and that's also comforting. Should be sawhorse strong when it's sheeted.
If we can do the fuse at a similar pace, it should be completely framed by Christmas and ready to start doing a bunch of surface and detail work....just about right for timing I think. It's going a lot faster than I thought it would through this stage. A couple more full building days will knock out the wing.
If we can do the fuse at a similar pace, it should be completely framed by Christmas and ready to start doing a bunch of surface and detail work....just about right for timing I think. It's going a lot faster than I thought it would through this stage. A couple more full building days will knock out the wing.
11-20-2005, 01:07 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Glad to see some other big cats flying. Here is a picture of my Boecamp Bearcat. 108" 55# all composite and powered with a DA-150.
ORIGINAL: moldmaker
Thought you guys might want to see my enlarged Ziroli Bear Cat 100 inch w/s weight 40 pounds retracts by Sierri flies good
Thought you guys might want to see my enlarged Ziroli Bear Cat 100 inch w/s weight 40 pounds retracts by Sierri flies good
11-20-2005, 04:07 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
John, You know where I'm at if you don't need it started for a spell . But this has got to get the spirit going...pics of the sheeted bottoms tonight.
. But this has got to get the spirit going...pics of the sheeted bottoms tonight.
11-20-2005, 11:09 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Got one of the bottom halves almost completed sheeting now. Still some trimming and sanding so all's not quite square on the sheeting yet, but had to get at least one pic up. Starting to take shape now with the sheeting on though.
11-21-2005, 02:21 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Wulf,
In another thread, I think, I saw mention of the Ziroli incidences as 0 deg wing, -1 deg stab. Are these the numbers recommended by Ziroli? Please tell us what Nick really recomends.
Thanks
In another thread, I think, I saw mention of the Ziroli incidences as 0 deg wing, -1 deg stab. Are these the numbers recommended by Ziroli? Please tell us what Nick really recomends.
Thanks
11-21-2005, 07:40 PM
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RE: Ziroli Bearcat Build--Start to Finish
Robert, Yes, I suppose that would be helpful.
Here's the cut and paste from my email:
"My early plans had a larger incidence angle between wing and stab and may
require down elevator trim. I would reset the stabilizer to 0 degrees
rather than the negative it shows on the plan. It's probably shows about
-2 degrees. The built in wing washout and 0 stab will make it an almost
0-0 setup. Should work good."
Sorry I didn't mention this sooner for everyone else.
Here's the cut and paste from my email:
"My early plans had a larger incidence angle between wing and stab and may
require down elevator trim. I would reset the stabilizer to 0 degrees
rather than the negative it shows on the plan. It's probably shows about
-2 degrees. The built in wing washout and 0 stab will make it an almost
0-0 setup. Should work good."
Sorry I didn't mention this sooner for everyone else.