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Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Old 11-11-2007, 07:41 AM
  #251  
Detlef Schmidt
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Hi Mike,

the fuselage looks amazing ! [sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

A masterpiece !!!

I´m on edge to see more.

Cheers, Detlef
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:20 PM
  #252  
wulf190
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Thank you Detlef. We've found the scheme to be a lot of effort that seemed to reward in the end.
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:23 PM
  #253  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

few more...
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:33 PM
  #254  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

man, you have out done yourself. That is just what the hellcat needed, something truelly outside the norm. So how long a build has it been so far? and what is next on the building board
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Old 11-11-2007, 02:37 PM
  #255  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

pics can be deceiving, especially from wulf190, that I can prove, as can others. crook! Do not pay him to botch up your aircraft.
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Old 11-11-2007, 04:05 PM
  #256  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Thank you Tony. I think you'll like it when you see it up close. I see you noticed that the process got a stretch eh?. On the table currently are several unfinished kits I've had around for a while now..Platt 109, Holman 190A, finishing the IMP 190D....enough stuff to fiddle with for the forseeable future at any rate. Lynn's a great guy to have worked for on this project...I've enjoyed each time we've talked about all the little things that have gone into the journey to get to the finish line. Couple more markings and small things to go, but about an afternoon's work of these things is all.
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Old 11-18-2007, 05:41 PM
  #257  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

No intent to hijack your thread here. I have a Z-cat all bought up and ready to go, including Sierra retracts. Just have to light a fire under me and/or Chris. My dream is to put a 5-cyl 150 radial in it. 1/2" to spare in the cowl! Obviously, I don't have that bought yet. A lot depends on how the 215 runs in my Air World Fw-190.

Speaking of which (here comes the hijacking part), I had wulf190 (Mike) and Chuck paint the 190 for me last spring. First, I tested them on a 60-size Corsair and that turned out GREAT. Then I sent them the Fw. I wanted to pick it up on my way back from Toledo, and it looked like it might not be ready by then, but I got these pictures back early April. Holy Cow! Awesome, right?

Well, let me tell you, it was nothing like the knock-yer-sox-off beauty of this bird in person! Really a first rate paint job. Added a lot of pizzaz to the Air World air frame, which is kinda mundane and not quite scale. Reasonably priced, too, although they're not cheap, 'cause they use high end materials and I insisted on paying them what their labor is worth. But "cheap" wasn't my goal here. Really nice job.

If your Hellcat is anywhere close to that gorgeous, you're gonna like it so much you'll be afraid to fly it.

Not for that reason, but because I've been a slacker about fitting the cockpit and final engine set-up, I haven't flown the Fw yet. My friends have started to mutter "hangar-queen" behind my back and clear their throats in strange, choking ways, but I anticipate that it will be a stellar flyer. Dino gave me some invaluable tips at Top Gun. His flies with incredible authority and beauty.


mt

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Old 11-18-2007, 07:56 PM
  #258  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Hmm, amazing, or rare, your lucky!
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:47 PM
  #259  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Kram, what is the Inner Dameter of the Cowl? The reason I ask is that I started a thread in the Giant Scales section looking for planes that will fit the OS , Saito and MAgnum ASP 400 radial engines.
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:06 AM
  #260  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Well, there you go MT. Leading me on about radials and such......

I've already imagineered an RCS 150 radial into the Hellcat and it should fit. Add a nice near scale sized Solo 28" three-blade, Hellcat pattern prop and whew. Now all I have to do is find out whether the 'Cat will take a 9.5 pound motor. Others on the thread have mentioned adding nose weight to get the model to balance but 9.5 pounds is gonna almost double the weight I was anticipating with a Brison 6.4 up front.

We're going to mock up the 'Cat with all equipment installed and see what it will take to CG the model. Keep your fingers crossed. Now, all I have to do is to come up with $3K for the motor. (Lordy, and I thought flying jets was expensive......)

langerl
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Old 11-19-2007, 12:34 AM
  #261  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Lynn, its only expensive when we crash, until then its an investment
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:40 PM
  #262  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Ram-bro:

The internal diameter if the Hellcat cowl AT THE POINT WHERE THE ENGINE'S WIDEST DIAMETER WILL BE is about 11-1/4" The engine at that point is 10" diameter, so there should be plenty of room. Chris and I bought the components (minus the 150) for the Hellcat at Toledo this year, so we actually took the cowl and the firewall over to the RCS booth and tried it on the 150 for size. A LOT more room than the 215 in my Airworld (about 3/16" all around).

langerl: It should be pretty easy to test for the effect of the 150 on CG. Put most of your gear in it and add the right amount of lead up front. My AW-190 came out a tiny bit nose-heavy with the 215, but it worked out fine by moving the servos back a little, which is not a bad idea for other (RFI) reasons.

My only concern about these big radials is about how truly user-friendly they're gonna be. A lot of guys on the internet have reported problems with them in closed-cowl applications. Most recently, the giant Skyraider on rcscalebuilder. Several experts have assured me that these can be worked out, but quite frankly I want to spend my time flying, not constantly tweaking the engine. Right out of the box, my 215 is AWESOME on the bench....great sound, great power, very little vibration, but like I said, I haven't put it in the air, in the cowl yet.

Overall, given what the Hellcat meant to our country in our time of direst need, how brave the young men that flew it were, how much better a memorial to all that it would be with a radial, you HAVE to try it!!! Heh, heh, heh!


mt
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:57 PM
  #263  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

All,
Interestingly enough Model Airplane News (go figure....) has an in depth (for them) article on the RCS 150 in the December issue. Author seemed to think with regular maintenance (read after each visit to the flying field) you can have a "reliable" and powerful scale radial for only $2995 (plus incidentals like tools). According to other RCS radial flyers, maintenance entails oiling all valve train parts (rockers, pushrods, guides) and doing valve adjustments after a days flying. I recall one well known RCS radial flyer indicating it was about 3 hours maintence for a (day's / weekend's) flying with the RCS radial. (That sorta sounds like quite a bit of overhead to me.) AND a few other serious modelers I've discussed RCS radials with said, "If you want to experience flying a radial, get a recording of the radial motor running. Install a DA-100 in your model. Fly the model while listening to the radial recording, then kill the DA100 in flight and turn off the recording for the simulated radial effect......" No foolin', this is what "they" said. That kinda' pulled the carpet out from under my ambitions.... for a while. Now the urge is back and the Hellcat seems to be just the model to try out the motor. I sure wish I knew the "truth" about flying these radials.

MT, why don't you let us all know how it works out. Promise, I won't make up any stories about you......

langerl
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Old 11-20-2007, 02:39 PM
  #264  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Yeah, sounds like your review of the subject pretty much resembles mine. I do have the added benefit of talking with Dino, the guys at Balsa USA and the neurosurgeon who flies the Sea Fury with the 215, so maybe I can skip some of their initial frustrations.

My 215 ran great on the bench and I'm pretty much 100% committed to installing it in the AW-190, so I'll keep you informed.

You don't look that far away. Let me know before the maiden on the Hellcat, regardless of which engine you go with. That would be worth a half-day drive! I'll return the favor for the Fw.

mt
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:31 PM
  #265  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

MT,
Next time Rick and I come to the Ames Twinfly, perhaps we can bring the 'Cat. Love to compare notes and models.

regards,
langerl
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Old 11-20-2007, 07:15 PM
  #266  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Yeah, we'd be more than willing to make a single engine exception for a Hellcat like that! Maybe we could extend Twin-Fly eligibility to "more than one cylinder."

OK, I'm sorry, enough thread hijacking!

Hellcat, Hellcat, Hellcat!

More pictures, please!


mt
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:12 AM
  #267  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Wulf 190

What wheels did you use for your 'cat? At 1/5 scale, is the correct dia. 6 inches?

Jeff
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:20 AM
  #268  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

I flew my Z hellcat Monday
Flew great no trim changes needed
33pounds
B &D 5.1 twin 26x10 carbon Fiber
Robart Retracts

NOW TO THE PAINT SHOP
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:57 AM
  #269  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Guys, I ran across this thread and decided to add my two bits. I fly in Dallas, Tx. with the DRCC club. I've built and flown several Ziroli plans (P51, Bearcat, P47 and Hellcat). My Hellcat is 9 years old now with about 40 flights on it. I called Nick Ziroli Sr. when I started the project. Chuck Gills Sr. (a wonderful fellow no longer with us)cut the fuse for me. After completing the building stage I wasn't happy with the overall weight and decided to purchase a fiberglass fuse from Madden. Satisfied at about 36 pounds Nick suggested a Quadra 75 up front. I followed his advise and have never regreted it. The Quadra 75 flies it beautifully with plenty of extra power. I usually cruise around on 2/3 power, but at full throttle she really moves.
This is a great flying plane, but you need plenty of runway to land, especially if you're landing on a paved runway. They will just keep rolling forever! Grass is great! It helps bleed out that roll-out speed.
Guys, the best information you can get is from Nick Ziroli Sr., he's a wonderful builder, great flyer of gaint warbirds, and a terrific guy to talk to. The next time you have questions about one of his designs give him a call. I know he will love it and you will have a well of information on the other end of the phone.
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:43 PM
  #270  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Jmik, the wheels are Robarts, though purchased thru Ziroli w/ the kit parts like cowl, canopy, etc....yes, 6" is the size, and they're pretty much poured into the wells.

Hcat: Congrats on the successful maiden. I like the idea of flying it bare before the paint goes on maybe to take away some--but only some-- of the jitters.

Ditto for Outflying's comments re. Ziroli customer care for me....Nick was extremely helpful for us in the build and with info on the up front side. He provided the hint about the tail reinforcement which I thought was good. This kit also came from Mace Gill---Chuck's son--and Mace is definitely the chip off the ole block--an absolutely super fellow. I've gone back to him for more stuff since and will keep going back in the future....a class act fer sher.

All of the nomenclature stencils are here now, and I'll likely be putting those on this weekend, or over school's winter break here quickly...finally getting the tape off the canopy to get a real look at 'er then. Pics to follow after all the little bits of 'no steps' and octane markings, etc. all get painted on.....source for those is my buddy Kyle at www.tanks-hangar.com Top quality stuff looks awesome on the finished plane....used all of his stuff on my Corsair and FW's with excellent effect.
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Old 01-01-2008, 07:06 PM
  #271  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary


Hi Wolf 190.

I have been reading your thread with great interest. I just started scratch building a Ziroli Hellcat. I blew up the plans a bit to squeeze in the big 5 cylinder radial.

I need to ask you a question. I'm wondering if I should change the horizontal stabilizer incidence? On my 1/5 scale Ziroli Bearcat I built it as per the plans and I needed to put lots of down elevator trim in. The Bearcat has 1 degree negative incidence causing it to climb with a neutral elevator. Most builders recommend changing the Bearcat stab to be zero incidence in relation to the main wing.

I measure 3/4 degree negative incidence on the hellcat plans. Should I keep it that way?

Great job on the build by the way, and thanks for posting all those photos.

Lou Cetrangelo
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Old 01-01-2008, 07:17 PM
  #272  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Lou, why not ask Nick zirolli himself. I hear that he is very helpful about his product. What size or which 5 cylinder radial are you putting in?
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Old 01-01-2008, 07:46 PM
  #273  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

I am going to be using the 250 cc radial. It is the same size as the 215 and a bit lighter but lots more power. I have the 215 in a Stearman and it is sweet. The Ziroli hellcat is 18.75% scale, his Bearcat is 20% and mine will be 21%. I could have gone bigger but I wanted to stay under 55 lbs.

Lou
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Old 01-01-2008, 09:09 PM
  #274  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Hello Wulf beautiful Hellcat, can someone who has never built a kit be sucessful at a first buid with the Macegills kit you used? I have repaired some aircraft in my 6 years of flying. I have been flying giant scale for 3 years now and my heart lones to have a Hellcat in my hanger with my other birds. I have 28 flights on this Ziroli Bearcat, it weights 38lbs has Robart retracts a G62 for power and is about 15 years old.
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:41 AM
  #275  
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Warbird flyer and Outfyer
I live and fly in Hurst texas--big scale nut here
Our club has several warbird fly-in and contest each year
We would love to have something of your caliber at our field
come play with us
Where do you fly from
The runway looks great?
lawrence
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