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Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

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Old 06-11-2010, 04:56 PM
  #526
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Here is a link for video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsL0LYUHpqM
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:12 PM
  #527
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

G-Pete, thanks for answer... All damage on Hellcat are more cosmetic and it is easy to fix.

About engine, DLE or DLA, if I want to put under cowl, they must be almost vertical... Will it work well in that position?

I am more interesting for your opinion about DA 85, Evolution 80 or ZDZ 80 engine.
What do you thing of this three which is the best?
DA is most expensive and as I can read make big vibrations...
For Evolution I read that it running smooth and a price is almost same like DA...
ZDZ is most cheap, and I was not find many text about that motor...

All three swing same propellers and have almost same power...

Any advice...

Can you send me some links for some of that giant scale pylon racers sites...

Thanks in advance...

Mirce
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:08 AM
  #528
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Mirce,
here some links
[link=http://www.pylonworld.com/rc_pylon/giant_scale/giant_scale.htm]http://www.pylonworld.com/rc_pylon/giant_scale/giant_scale.htm[/link]

[link=http://www.usrainfo.org/]http://www.usrainfo.org/[/link]

[link=http://www.luvaraairracing.com/]http://www.luvaraairracing.com/[/link]

[link=http://www.rcpro.org/html/]http://www.rcpro.org/html/[/link]


As for the DA85 and vibration - weel, I own a few of them and none of them vibrates more then all the other gas engines I have. The DA85 on a 3-blade is very nice and absolutely reliable. The first 85's had differet pistons they created a little bit more rough run at idle - but this is history.
As for the EVO, I don't like their needle setup and this engine as a little less power then the DA. I can't say anything about the ZDZ - I never owned on saw one close up and played with.

A boxer mounted vertical? Sure - no problem with that, it is odd but possible just a little different exhaust setup... besides that the bottom one is slightly richer then the top. Nothing to be concerned about.
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Old 06-12-2010, 02:31 PM
  #529
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Thank's G-Pete for answers... I know that you have few DA 85s and your expirience is from the "first hand"...

I will try with some changes on GT 80 and Hellcat first...
You will know results...

Best regards

Mirce
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Old 06-12-2010, 05:31 PM
  #530
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Try Less restrictive exhaust on the GT 80 the exhaust set up looks very restrictive. If the engine is good working order and tuned well it should fly that Plane very well, many are already doing so. Just a thought. Kevin.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:13 PM
  #531
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Thank's Kevin,

I am in progress of making two canister exhaust. It will be open type without any silencer inside...
I hope that with propeller 24x8 (now 24x10) GT will get some more rpm and gone in better area with more engine torque.
New exhaust and propeller I thing 15-20% of power...

We will see...

Mirce
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Old 06-13-2010, 08:33 AM
  #532
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Hi Mirce, i have been telling my wife about your great scale exhaust system and that i wanted to have one for my Hellcat. She even watched your video with me. She has an idea you might want to consider. Keep the scale exhaust intact and just add the canisters between the scale exhaust and the engine. You might call it a "dual exhaust" system. You would get the best of both that way. What do you think of that?
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Old 06-13-2010, 07:24 PM
  #533
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Old Scale Guy, your idea is grate, I think about that, but right now I need all "atom" of power for my Hellcat.

My scale exhaust is made from big tube and 10 little exhausts which are, I think, three or four time more area than on engine exhaust. So, it is no problem with it.
The biggest problem is in first exhaust, it is very restricted because noise.
I find this two diagrams on Toni Clark site:





Exhaust on my Hellcat is that 7472, which give worse performance in torque and power.
Can you see how much performance are better with standard silencers? I want now to made two open type canisters and, hope that perfomance will be some more better...

With my Xoar 24x10 I get 5900 rpm and, on diagram the best power is on 6400 rpm...
So, now, I will try with few diferent propellers (24x8, 23x8, 22x14, 22x10)...
I think that can get 15-20 % of power...

After many engine runs in my yard and two flights, I see another little problem, it is oil (OK not a lot of them) which is going out from scale exhaust system and go between uper side of wing an fuselage. I need to clean that surface after every engine run but part of oil ang gas is going under fuselage, so from time to time I must take center panel down to clean that... It is no big deal but one more thing to do...

All in all, many things which I made on Hellcat in everyday use I see like a little problems with it...
My opinion is: if you want model for scale competition OK, many details and no a lot of flying. But if you want model for flying, details are nice, but always some problems with it and extra work...

Regards

Mirce
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Old 06-13-2010, 09:15 PM
  #534
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Mirce, have you tuned the Engine for performance? I would think you should be getting a very small amount of oil residue, not alot of it. Is the Engine new? Are the needles on the box settings ? All Engines will lose performance if they can not breathe. As I said if the Engine is in good working order and set up properly it should fly that Plane with ease. Kevin.
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:55 PM
  #535
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

The gt-80 "WILL" wake up after it is broken in. My Meister p-47 with a gt-80 and a scale exhaust (24-10 prop) was so disappointing in the beginning that I was about to sell it. After talking to several gt-80 owners they told me to stick with it and it will come alive. And it did in a BIG way, around five gallons you will see the difference. Godd luck, Jeff Naul
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Old 06-14-2010, 06:43 AM
  #536
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Thank's guys, for informations...

This engine was be on Detlefs Hellcat and, after he put Moki on his plane (lucky man) I buy it from him. He told me that GT 80 have 4 - 4,5 working hours. I add maybe one more hour with testing and those two flights.

One more thing about I thinking, is higher temperature under cowl. With two exhausts, one big original, and second my scale, maybe there was very hot. GT 80 was very hot when Hellcat landing. Two little canister and bigger holes on cowl (same holes in which is pipes of my scale exhaust, but now without pipes) will help for better cooling.

So, I will try with settings which I wright early here... My hope is that it will be better. How much? We will see results...

Regards...

Mirce

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Old 06-14-2010, 12:57 PM
  #537
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Quote:
The gt-80 "WILL" wake up after it is broken in. My Meister p-47 with a gt-80 and a scale exhaust (24-10 prop) was so disappointing in the beginning that I was about to sell it. After talking to several gt-80 owners they told me to stick with it and it will come alive. And it did in a BIG way, around five gallons you will see the difference. Godd luck, Jeff Naul
+1 -YES.

I was in the same perdicament with my Dauntless (45lbs.) and its GT-80.
MIRCE, you must achieve 7000+ RPM's or the engine will never satisfy your requirements. I went through six different props, finding a Bolly 24" x 8" (wood, 2-blade) the best. The APC props will also get the engine at or above 7000 RPM's. APC manufactures a 24" x 8" F1-GT prop, which was loaned to me. This prop produced 8200 RPM's!
Also, my GT80 (w/ Slimline muffler cannisters) took 5+ gallons of the break-in 2-cycle mix (Lawnboy 'Ashless' oil @ 32:1) before it started to come alive. I now run it with 70:1 sythenic. Very, very happy with the motor now.

Oh, how's the idle characteristics? If erractic, you may want to try the Walbro SDC-80 carb.

NICK
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:40 PM
  #538
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Mirce, make sure that you have the dummy radial blocked off between the cylinders and only open in the area of the GT-80 cylinders. You want all the air coming in to only go over the GT-80 cylinders not filling up the cowl. My GT-80 ran hot also till I did this to my Z Hellcat. I don't remember how your setup was but here is just a reminder. i also cut a 3" circle on the bottom of the cowl for more exit air. You can make a round panel to put back in when static for looks but remove it during flight this also helped a bunch.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:41 PM
  #539
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

I made mix with 4% of Still motor oil. Can so many oil decrease power?

Randy, I have FTE dummy radials with open space between cilinders. Air is coming in a cowl trough that space... Bottom of cowl is open but it is under GT 80... What do you think to cut two dummy cilinders which are in front of GT 80? Will that help, but it will be ugly [&o]...
Does somebody make some extra big hole on the bottom side of a cowl?

Mirce
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:14 PM
  #540
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Ok have same dummy radial. What I did was make a baffle to block off the open cylinders that were not in front of the GT-80 cylinders. That way all the air coming into the cowl is passing through the GT-80 cylinders. I too did not want to cut off the dummy cylinders that block the air slightly and I have NOT either. I just left it open on either side of the dummy cylinder that is in front the the GT cylinders. So far it has only been about 90 degrees F but has not been a problem. If you look at the bottom of my cowl you can see a black round hole this is my extra exit hole below the engine. I too have functional scale exhaust that blocks the side of the cowl so I did this. Like I said you can always make a cover that goes on with magnuts for static display for this hole. Hope this helps. By the way I just painted the ply baffle black hides in well. By the way below the dummy radial is blocked of also.
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:35 PM
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Randy, thank's for tips... Your Hellcat is soooooo nice... I like that colors...

When your GT 80 work, does gas go out from the carburator? My firewall is rather wet from gas which is suck out from engine. Do you have that problem?
How your scale exhaust look like, do you have some photos?

Which propeller you use and how much rpm have your GT 80?

Mirce
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:29 PM
  #542
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

I can get some photos this weekend of the exhaust setup. I am using a Xoar 24-10 and getting 6400 on the ground but it is unloading in the air a bunch. I have more than enough power but it really feels the weight on vertical. Takeoffs are very scale nice and gentle if I yanked it off the ground it would stall I am sure. But low flybys are very fast, I went to a large meet a couple of weeks back and was asked several times what I was using for power since nothing is sticking out and they were all surprized when I told them a GT-80 just because of the speed it was doing. It was also quite windy up to 20mph winds when I was flying it but it seemed to just cut through the air for as bulky as the Hellcat is it didn't seem to mind but I am also at 51lbs. Just a note I am going to try another scale just to make sure on weight it shouldn't be that much.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:49 PM
  #543
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Quote:
ORIGINAL: mirce

I made mix with 4% of Still motor oil. Can so many oil decrease power?

Randy, I have FTE dummy radials with open space between cilinders. Air is coming in a cowl trough that space... Bottom of cowl is open but it is under GT 80... What do you think to cut two dummy cilinders which are in front of GT 80? Will that help, but it will be ugly [&o]...
Does somebody make some extra big hole on the bottom side of a cowl?

Mirce
Hi Mirce, I´m working with 2% motul 800 in my DA-50. I think you are using a very high mix. You can try with a good sinthetic oil and 2 or 2,5% mix.
Everyone are using 4% mix?
Mirce, Im going to make a hole bottom and Im going to put a computer ventilator or a tubine engine to cold the engine in mine.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:54 PM
  #544
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

I am using 40-1 full synthetic
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Old 06-14-2010, 06:34 PM
  #545
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Randy, your Hellcat is not light also...

Mirce
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:11 PM
  #546
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Mirce,

Stick with the GT 80 my friend. I have a Ziroli Dauntless fitted with this motor and it is just coming good after 30 flights. Im running a carbon 24 x 10 prop and standard silencers and its producing 6800 rpm, but is increasing after each session. Stick with it, there great after the intial bed-in period.

Regards,

Frank

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Old 06-15-2010, 02:26 PM
  #547
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Thanks Frank for advice... Your Dauntless is very nice, how much is heavy?

Regards

Mirce
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Old 06-15-2010, 02:49 PM
  #548
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Mirce,

It weights just under 40lbs. I have recently added a few more bits, bombs, guns ect and I think it will now weight approx 42lbs.

I too intend using a 24 x 8 to improve performance, i will keep you posted.

Frank
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:25 AM
  #549
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

Hi Mirce,

yes the fellows are telling right - kepp the GT-80.

I was using Belray synthetic oil 1:50

Some guys told me you could speed up "brake-in" process by using CASTROL A747 oil 1:50 and after 10 - 15 flights changing to a synthetic oil 1:50

With my MOKi I had temperature-problmes as well and I solved it with 3 cow-flaps at the bottom of the cowl.

I will look for pictures to post.


best regards

Detleg
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:30 AM
  #550
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Default RE: Ziroli F6F Hellcat Builder's Diary

I took a few pictures of my Ziroli Hellcat last night just minutes before its' maiden flight. I ask a few questions on this thread last year when I was considering building a Z-Cat...I have followed along on this thread steadily ever since...lots of good info! As for the flight, it went great. No problems. Lands like a big "*****cat". The second flight I retracted the gear and it did not come all the way down so I had to do a couple of loops with the plane flying very slowly at the top. I guess the wind resistance on the gear covers holds them from going all the way down. I'm using a ZDZ80, Xoar 24-10 prop, and Sierra main gear. Its' covered with dress lining and polycrylic. The paint is exterior Benjamin Moore. Final weight is 33 pounds with NO lead added for balance.

ps...hey wulf190...I was cheering for the Hawks in the final...congrats!
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