Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
07-05-2006, 06:13 PM
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Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
I know these kits are discontinued, but there are still some still out there in a box, so here is a warning to all would be builders. Do not use the listed CG in the manual--you WILL end up crashing the model. After two repairs, and some good advice from a fellow RCU'er, I learned that the proper CG--the one at which the model will actually fly well--is 5 inches back from the leading edge at the fuse--which is actually 5 inches back from the front of the fender well. This is almost a full inch in front of the listed CG.
The second time I tried to fly it with the listed CG (after the first snap and re-build), I had a very seasoned pilot try it. This guy could fly anything airworthy. He got it back down, but had to land so hot that we broke the CMJ retracts. After that, i did some research and found out that the best CG is actually forward of what is recommended. Since then, the model has flown exceptionally well.
Just thought I'd pass it on.
The second time I tried to fly it with the listed CG (after the first snap and re-build), I had a very seasoned pilot try it. This guy could fly anything airworthy. He got it back down, but had to land so hot that we broke the CMJ retracts. After that, i did some research and found out that the best CG is actually forward of what is recommended. Since then, the model has flown exceptionally well.
Just thought I'd pass it on.
07-05-2006, 06:58 PM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
is this the at-6 that was crashed on the maiden flight from a stall that was a result of an unexpected lift off?
i remember reading a post about a year ago i think.glad you got it in the air this time and back down to fly again.maybe that cg was the reason for them to be discontinued
i remember reading a post about a year ago i think.glad you got it in the air this time and back down to fly again.maybe that cg was the reason for them to be discontinued
07-05-2006, 10:55 PM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
Yes, about a year ago is when I first snapped it on takeoff. However, I wouldn't classify it as an unexpected takeoff, as the saito 100 had pulled the plane for the better part of 150 or more feet on the ground, and the plane started lifting up on its own--not a steep climb at all, just a nice, gentle climb. Then, with just a TOUCH of elevator, the plane snapped left, and the rest is history. Anyway, move the CG forward if you haven't already. It will save you much heartache.
Don't know about the zero, sorry.
Don't know about the zero, sorry.
07-06-2006, 09:47 AM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
Gordon Banks of RC Report always says "A nose heavy plane may fly poorly but a tail heavy plane will fly only once"
I always start a little forward of the reccomended cg and work my way back but I doubt I would have gone a whole inch, sorry it cost you two planes to find out.
I always start a little forward of the reccomended cg and work my way back but I doubt I would have gone a whole inch, sorry it cost you two planes to find out.
07-06-2006, 10:41 AM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
Yea. What's weird is that I know a lot of people have built this plane, and probably flew it with the recommended CG. I wonder if somewhere along the line the manual got changed, and the recommended CG was printed too far aft?
Anyway, all is good now, and I hope to keep anyone else out there from going through the same heartache as me.
It was RCU member Paladin that helped me, and finally gave me the majic CG. Thanks again!
Anyway, all is good now, and I hope to keep anyone else out there from going through the same heartache as me.
It was RCU member Paladin that helped me, and finally gave me the majic CG. Thanks again!
07-06-2006, 01:59 PM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
Hangar 9's AT-6 Texan suffers from the same problem. The manual gives the CG location and says it's relative to the leading edge of wing. It's not; the distance specified in the manual is actually measured from the front of the wheel wells, which protrude 1.5" in front of the leading edge. If you do what the manual says, you end up with a plane that's very tail-heavy (which I learned the hard way and only got straightened out when I called Horizon tech support).
Also, if you're using Century Jet's AT-6 retracts, beware of a design flaw that means they'll bend or break on just about every landing. See http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_44...tm.htm#4412764 for information on fixing those retracts.
Also, if you're using Century Jet's AT-6 retracts, beware of a design flaw that means they'll bend or break on just about every landing. See http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_44...tm.htm#4412764 for information on fixing those retracts.
07-06-2006, 03:22 PM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
Tailskid--you are right about the elevators. I have very little throw in them right now. I can do a pretty good loop, but if I pull full elevator, it will snap. However, that is much different than it snapping when I pull MAYBE 1/16 inch of elevator. I still need to take some throw out, and will probably introduce a little exponential (although I hate exponential).
Jeff. You are also right about the CMJ's. My retracts snapped where the main wire enters the strut. I just replaced them with the fixed gear included with the kit because I was getting disheartened by the whole deal and didn't want to sink anymore $$ into it. Now that it's flying good (finaly), I may indeed go back with some spring air, or other better retracts (definitely not CMJ's anymore!)
Jeff. You are also right about the CMJ's. My retracts snapped where the main wire enters the strut. I just replaced them with the fixed gear included with the kit because I was getting disheartened by the whole deal and didn't want to sink anymore $$ into it. Now that it's flying good (finaly), I may indeed go back with some spring air, or other better retracts (definitely not CMJ's anymore!)
07-06-2006, 04:36 PM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
Couple of questions,
TO Jeffpro, so where do you measure for CG, from the front of the wells or from the leading edge if you were to draw a line to the cord along the leading edge?
Why does some of these planes snap at full up elevator and others don't and I'm speaking of warbirds? I have a CMP Corsair 50 and if I let it roll out before applying very little up elevator, it will take off very nice. If I apply up elevator before ground speed is fast enough, it will snap. Now I know I'll get all kinds of answers about thrust and so forth, but what I'm talking about is after I'm in the air, if I use to much up elevator, it will snap and that's at full throttle. If I apply less up elevator, then it will do a nice loop. It's just if I use to much up elevator that the plane will roll over instead of doing a loop.
Larry
TO Jeffpro, so where do you measure for CG, from the front of the wells or from the leading edge if you were to draw a line to the cord along the leading edge?
Why does some of these planes snap at full up elevator and others don't and I'm speaking of warbirds? I have a CMP Corsair 50 and if I let it roll out before applying very little up elevator, it will take off very nice. If I apply up elevator before ground speed is fast enough, it will snap. Now I know I'll get all kinds of answers about thrust and so forth, but what I'm talking about is after I'm in the air, if I use to much up elevator, it will snap and that's at full throttle. If I apply less up elevator, then it will do a nice loop. It's just if I use to much up elevator that the plane will roll over instead of doing a loop.
Larry
07-06-2006, 09:11 PM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
Hello All,
After reading this thread I went and found my instruction book for my Top Flite AT-6 so I could make a note for the future when I ever get around to building it. In the manual it states that the CG is to be measured from a position on the leading edge directly in front of Rib #4 and the CG is located 4 1/4" back from that point. The plans show the beginning of the CG range on the aft side of the wing spar. That puts the CG measurement from the front of the Wheel housings at just over 5 3/4", and that is just the front of the range!
Thanks for posting this, you probably saved an airplane for me.
Regards,
James
After reading this thread I went and found my instruction book for my Top Flite AT-6 so I could make a note for the future when I ever get around to building it. In the manual it states that the CG is to be measured from a position on the leading edge directly in front of Rib #4 and the CG is located 4 1/4" back from that point. The plans show the beginning of the CG range on the aft side of the wing spar. That puts the CG measurement from the front of the Wheel housings at just over 5 3/4", and that is just the front of the range!
Thanks for posting this, you probably saved an airplane for me.
Regards,
James
07-07-2006, 08:10 AM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
On the H9 AT-6, you measure from the front of the wheel wells, which is about 1.5" forward of the leading edge. The manual says measure from the leading edge. The manual is incorrect. Horizon verified that for me (although they argued that the front of the wheel wells IS the leading edge), and the plane's performance in flight lends additional verification.
If you measure from the leading edge, your CG is 1.5" too far back, making the plane difficult to handle in the air. The plane flies like a dream when you measure the CG from the front of the wheel wells.
If you measure from the leading edge, your CG is 1.5" too far back, making the plane difficult to handle in the air. The plane flies like a dream when you measure the CG from the front of the wheel wells.
07-07-2006, 09:50 AM
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RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
Wizzard
You're certainly welcome. That is the whole purpose of this post. And yes, although I said earlier that it was an inch forward, it was probably somewhere between 3/4 and 1 inch. Believe me, on a plane as short coupled as the Texan, 3/4 to 1 inch is HUGE. Good luck with yours. It is a joy to build!
You're certainly welcome. That is the whole purpose of this post. And yes, although I said earlier that it was an inch forward, it was probably somewhere between 3/4 and 1 inch. Believe me, on a plane as short coupled as the Texan, 3/4 to 1 inch is HUGE. Good luck with yours. It is a joy to build!
07-07-2006, 03:38 PM
#15
RE: Top Flite Gold Texan--Warning
ORIGINAL: Larry S
Couple of questions,
TO Jeffpro, so where do you measure for CG, from the front of the wells or from the leading edge if you were to draw a line to the cord along the leading edge?
Why does some of these planes snap at full up elevator and others don't and I'm speaking of warbirds? I have a CMP Corsair 50 and if I let it roll out before applying very little up elevator, it will take off very nice. If I apply up elevator before ground speed is fast enough, it will snap. Now I know I'll get all kinds of answers about thrust and so forth, but what I'm talking about is after I'm in the air, if I use to much up elevator, it will snap and that's at full throttle. If I apply less up elevator, then it will do a nice loop. It's just if I use to much up elevator that the plane will roll over instead of doing a loop.
Larry
Couple of questions,
TO Jeffpro, so where do you measure for CG, from the front of the wells or from the leading edge if you were to draw a line to the cord along the leading edge?
Why does some of these planes snap at full up elevator and others don't and I'm speaking of warbirds? I have a CMP Corsair 50 and if I let it roll out before applying very little up elevator, it will take off very nice. If I apply up elevator before ground speed is fast enough, it will snap. Now I know I'll get all kinds of answers about thrust and so forth, but what I'm talking about is after I'm in the air, if I use to much up elevator, it will snap and that's at full throttle. If I apply less up elevator, then it will do a nice loop. It's just if I use to much up elevator that the plane will roll over instead of doing a loop.
Larry
11-09-2008, 05:44 PM
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RE: Top Flite Gold TexanWarning
First time post here and I know this post it old, but I am in the finishing stages of the Top Flite ARF Texan. The manual that comes with the ARF kit says that the CG is 4 1/4 from wing. So I am assuming that this is the same manual from the earlier kit which will be tail heavy. Anyone build the ARF kit yet and had any issue with the CG they listed.
11-09-2008, 07:10 PM
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RE: Top Flite Gold TexanWarning
Big10, I believe the ARF is the kit, but I do not have the ARF just compared the stats( they are the same). If in dought move the cg to the furthest forward point it will allow you to remove it alittle at a time until it flys like you want it. Then measure that and report back here.
2slow, I don’t remember which retracts you have but you should be able to pull the oleo’s and bend up some cold rolled steel/spring steel struts and fly with retracts. Find a fellow modeler who ban bend lg.
Elevator is very affective, my son and I flew mock combat for years me in the Hollywood zero and Jason in a p-40 at first then a p-51D. the HW zero could turn in half the dia., but that was very hard on the wing center section and forced a rebuild. I use 30% Expo to smooth out the G’s the E can put on the wing.
Joe
2slow, I don’t remember which retracts you have but you should be able to pull the oleo’s and bend up some cold rolled steel/spring steel struts and fly with retracts. Find a fellow modeler who ban bend lg.
Elevator is very affective, my son and I flew mock combat for years me in the Hollywood zero and Jason in a p-40 at first then a p-51D. the HW zero could turn in half the dia., but that was very hard on the wing center section and forced a rebuild. I use 30% Expo to smooth out the G’s the E can put on the wing.
Joe
11-10-2008, 10:09 PM
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RE: Top Flite Gold TexanWarning
Hey Guys
I just picked up a Hanger 9 AT-6 Texan over this past weekend from our clubs annual swap meet. It's needing and engine and a AR7000 receiver to get her in the air. I can't wait to fly her, she is clean with only 10 flight from the origonal owner.
Thanks for posting the correction on the C.G placement. I sure would not want to crack her up on the first flight. I find that so many models have this same issue with the correct C.G placement in the instruction manual. What's up with that?
Anyway here is a photo of my NEW bird.
Jim
I just picked up a Hanger 9 AT-6 Texan over this past weekend from our clubs annual swap meet. It's needing and engine and a AR7000 receiver to get her in the air. I can't wait to fly her, she is clean with only 10 flight from the origonal owner.
Thanks for posting the correction on the C.G placement. I sure would not want to crack her up on the first flight. I find that so many models have this same issue with the correct C.G placement in the instruction manual. What's up with that?
Anyway here is a photo of my NEW bird.
Jim
