Giant scale P-40 choice
01-24-2003, 12:25 AM
#28
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Giant scale P-40 choice
Originally posted by Banks
We'll be mounting the engines next week. I'll post pics then. Regarding power; I have the option of throttling down. Now, back to glueing. I will try to elaborate later tonight.
We'll be mounting the engines next week. I'll post pics then. Regarding power; I have the option of throttling down. Now, back to glueing. I will try to elaborate later tonight.
Looking forward to seeing them.....I had one hell'uva time getting it to fit in the Ziroli cowl with no holes in the side of the cowl to allow the muffler to fit.
I use the wrap around pitts. The muffler cannister touches the inside of the cowl, and the fit gets tighter and tighter as the cowl narrows towards the prop hub....
Your Yellow is quite a bit smaller than the Ziroli so good luck making it fit reasonably without large cutouts in the cowling. You're much better off looking for an engine that has a rear exaust setup similar to the G38 setup as you're going to have an impossible job fitting the muffler in the cowl with no holes in the side of the cowl when using a ZDZ80, or similar type gasser with side exaust porting. This is just my opinion based on the size of the Ziroli and my experience with fitting the ZDZ in it......
As for "throttling back", this is true when poking holes in the sky but is sometimes not possible when landing. An idling engine with a 24-10 prop on a smallish sized airplane as this, may have too much power, and make the landings a bit too hot to handle in some cases, even with flaps, especially when overpowering an airplane as much as you guys intend to.
Remember, you're talking 100% beyond the recommended power, i.e. a G38 vs. a ZDZ80.
In either case, good luck and keep us informed......
01-24-2003, 12:47 AM
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P-40 Engine
A 3W-75i ( rear carb) is a perfect choice. The G- series engines are dinasours,overweight and under powered. I've seen too many 38's, 50's ect "limp around" the pattern. This will make it fly with authority, run it at 1/2 throttle (less wear, tear, fuel). It will have the power to save your bacon in a bad situation.
You only need to look at the weight of the engine and the CG. I've seen guys put a 50 or 62 in, then add afew pounds of lead weight to the firewall. Makes the motor even less responsive.
90" warbird "recommends" a 50, the 3D 90" recommends a 100.
See what I mean? Also I fly 3 blade and 4 blade setups. Need to go a size or two larger.
Anyway, don't be penny wise & pound foolish.
Just my thoughts, and it works well for me.
You only need to look at the weight of the engine and the CG. I've seen guys put a 50 or 62 in, then add afew pounds of lead weight to the firewall. Makes the motor even less responsive.
90" warbird "recommends" a 50, the 3D 90" recommends a 100.
See what I mean? Also I fly 3 blade and 4 blade setups. Need to go a size or two larger.
Anyway, don't be penny wise & pound foolish.
Just my thoughts, and it works well for me.
01-24-2003, 12:55 AM
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Interesting Information
The Ziroli, if I'm not mistaken is 92" and the Yellow is 86". Thats only a 6" size difference. But anyway, here is an interesting photo of the instructions I recieved with the Yellow P-40.
A little different than what the web site indicates.
A little different than what the web site indicates.
01-24-2003, 12:57 AM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
Don't you hate it when you have pictures emailed to you but MS Outlook decides to remove access to them? I hope to have them available tonight and I'll post them.
In the meantime, let me provide you with an explanation or at least our thoughts. The ZDZ 80 will use a rear exhaust muffler. We are going to modify the exhaust stacks to exit at the bottom cowl exhaust flaps. Branded, all I can say is wait for the pictures regarding "fit." I held onto the ZDZ80 from inside the fuse while a friend took pictures. Pictures are worth a thousand words and I am here to say if the engine area was a little larger (just a little), I could fit two ZDZ80's in there. If you see something that I have obviously overlooked from the pictures that I will be posting, please let me know. I'm not too proud to admit to mistakes
)
I too had the concerns of too-high-of-an-idle with the ZDZ80. Several people told me it will work. So, based on their knowledge and experience, which towers mine in every aspect, I went with the ZDZ80. However, as a backup, ZDZ60's are sitting in the closet).
Firefox144, Congrats! I cant wait to call Yellow tomorrow looking for my wing tips. Did you get the spinner from Yellow?
*anxiously waiting for pictures to be re-emailed*
Banks
In the meantime, let me provide you with an explanation or at least our thoughts. The ZDZ 80 will use a rear exhaust muffler. We are going to modify the exhaust stacks to exit at the bottom cowl exhaust flaps. Branded, all I can say is wait for the pictures regarding "fit." I held onto the ZDZ80 from inside the fuse while a friend took pictures. Pictures are worth a thousand words and I am here to say if the engine area was a little larger (just a little), I could fit two ZDZ80's in there. If you see something that I have obviously overlooked from the pictures that I will be posting, please let me know. I'm not too proud to admit to mistakes
)I too had the concerns of too-high-of-an-idle with the ZDZ80. Several people told me it will work. So, based on their knowledge and experience, which towers mine in every aspect, I went with the ZDZ80. However, as a backup, ZDZ60's are sitting in the closet
). Firefox144, Congrats! I cant wait to call Yellow tomorrow looking for my wing tips. Did you get the spinner from Yellow?
*anxiously waiting for pictures to be re-emailed*
Banks
01-24-2003, 01:07 AM
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Banks
Banks,
I did not order the spinner from Yellow as I am not even close to that point just yet as you can tell, but I probably will unless you or someone has a different opinion. I cant wait to get started. I am thinking of using the 3W-50 in her, but not sure yet. I was very supprized to see air lines, tank and control unit come with the kit. Did it come with yours. I hope you get your wing tips soon.
I did not order the spinner from Yellow as I am not even close to that point just yet as you can tell, but I probably will unless you or someone has a different opinion. I cant wait to get started. I am thinking of using the 3W-50 in her, but not sure yet. I was very supprized to see air lines, tank and control unit come with the kit. Did it come with yours. I hope you get your wing tips soon.
01-24-2003, 01:47 AM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
Ok, well the Ziroli is 10% larger than the Yellow. That's doesn't sound like much but geometrically it's an order of magnitude larger than the Yellow.
If you've found a way to fit a ZDZ80 into the Yellow P40 cowlling I would sure like to see it. I'm looking forward to the photos.
I have ZDZ80 in mine using a Mejlik 24-10 (3-blade) prop and the blades just barely clear the runway when she's "on-step".....
what size prop do you propose to use on your Yellow with a ZDZ80 installed?
Personally, I think you need to go back and make some measurements because that engine just isn't going to fit into that cowl- no way, no how unless you modify the side exaust with a custom made muffler. The width of the ZDZ80, plus the muffler, will just barely make it in the Ziroli.
Common sense says it's just not going to make it.......
I'm not going to contributefurther to this thread as I don't wish to "steal your thunder" but I sure would like to see the complete installation of either a ZDZ80, or even a G62 into a Yellow P40 cowpl with any available "off the shelf muffler", without any holes in the cowl.
If you've found a way to fit a ZDZ80 into the Yellow P40 cowlling I would sure like to see it. I'm looking forward to the photos.
I have ZDZ80 in mine using a Mejlik 24-10 (3-blade) prop and the blades just barely clear the runway when she's "on-step".....
what size prop do you propose to use on your Yellow with a ZDZ80 installed?
Personally, I think you need to go back and make some measurements because that engine just isn't going to fit into that cowl- no way, no how unless you modify the side exaust with a custom made muffler. The width of the ZDZ80, plus the muffler, will just barely make it in the Ziroli.
Common sense says it's just not going to make it.......
I'm not going to contributefurther to this thread as I don't wish to "steal your thunder" but I sure would like to see the complete installation of either a ZDZ80, or even a G62 into a Yellow P40 cowpl with any available "off the shelf muffler", without any holes in the cowl.
01-24-2003, 01:50 AM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
Well, you guys posted the pictures as I was responding so I didn't see them.....
Let's see the ZDZ80 with a muffler on it, and installed into the cowling......
It just isn't going to fit.........
Let's see the ZDZ80 with a muffler on it, and installed into the cowling......
It just isn't going to fit.........
01-24-2003, 02:03 AM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
here's a ZDZ installed in my P40....Note the interference of the muffler inside the cowling....
The Yellow cowling has to be even smaller (10%)......
The Yellow cowling has to be even smaller (10%)......
01-24-2003, 02:04 AM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
Thanks f308gtsi ,
Branded: As you can see from the picture where I'm holding the ZDZ inside the fuse, there is plenty of room for a ZDZ80 including the modified exhaust. Yes, we have to modify the exhaust, as I stated in my lengthy post above. Perhaps I can post a picture tomorrow with the exhaust attached.
Firefox144: Yes, we bought the Yellow spinner. Nice work too. The only thing I am concerned about is cutting the notches for the prop. Tru-turn would not do them do to liability issues so, I'll have to make templates and cut them out with a Dremel. I'll then finish them to size with a file. *shrug* It's the only way I can think of without CNC Laser cutting them. And yes, we got the airlines, can, etc. with the retracts. However, we will be using the Robart air control.
Regards,
Banks
Branded: As you can see from the picture where I'm holding the ZDZ inside the fuse, there is plenty of room for a ZDZ80 including the modified exhaust. Yes, we have to modify the exhaust, as I stated in my lengthy post above. Perhaps I can post a picture tomorrow with the exhaust attached.
Firefox144: Yes, we bought the Yellow spinner. Nice work too. The only thing I am concerned about is cutting the notches for the prop. Tru-turn would not do them do to liability issues so, I'll have to make templates and cut them out with a Dremel. I'll then finish them to size with a file. *shrug* It's the only way I can think of without CNC Laser cutting them. And yes, we got the airlines, can, etc. with the retracts. However, we will be using the Robart air control.
Regards,
Banks
01-24-2003, 02:06 AM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
Note the orientation of the ZDZ in the larger Ziroli. The hub is very near the nose of the cowling making the clearances even tighter since the cowling narrows at this point.......
01-24-2003, 02:10 AM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
And lastly, a side shot....If you have any hopes of fitting this into an airplane that's 10% smaller than the Ziroli, then you'll have to move the engine nearer the firewall to make use of the wider cowling area. This will necessitate an extention hub, and probably a custom muffler......
This of course discounts the ground clearance problems you may encounter, unless you prop down in diameter....
Good luck.....
This of course discounts the ground clearance problems you may encounter, unless you prop down in diameter....
Good luck.....
01-24-2003, 02:22 AM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
Branded,
Yes, we may have to size down on the prop diameter. I am not positive a 24" prop will make it, but it's what we're hoping to use.
Your exhaust scenario is what we researched before buying the ZDZ80's. Yes, we are going to modify them. I will most likely mill the interference area and re-weld a new aluminum cap in that area.
Regarding your spinner, how many screws did you use to mount it to the hub? Just curious because I have heard several different answers.
Regards,
Banks
Yes, we may have to size down on the prop diameter. I am not positive a 24" prop will make it, but it's what we're hoping to use.
Your exhaust scenario is what we researched before buying the ZDZ80's. Yes, we are going to modify them. I will most likely mill the interference area and re-weld a new aluminum cap in that area.
Regarding your spinner, how many screws did you use to mount it to the hub? Just curious because I have heard several different answers.
Regards,
Banks
01-24-2003, 02:33 PM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
Branded:
Do you have the same drive shaft length on your ZDZ 80 as we do ? You can see ours in the side photo in my first post above. We have that aluminum prop mount which adds length to our drive shaft.
In addition, it appears as if the Ziroli Fuselage has more tapering fuselage in front of the three radiator openings than the yellow does. This acounts for your engine sitting much further forward in the Ziroli P-40 than it will in the Yellow. Our cyclinder head is well back of the radiator openings where the fuselage is wider.
Smoke off...
MCS
Do you have the same drive shaft length on your ZDZ 80 as we do ? You can see ours in the side photo in my first post above. We have that aluminum prop mount which adds length to our drive shaft.
In addition, it appears as if the Ziroli Fuselage has more tapering fuselage in front of the three radiator openings than the yellow does. This acounts for your engine sitting much further forward in the Ziroli P-40 than it will in the Yellow. Our cyclinder head is well back of the radiator openings where the fuselage is wider.
Smoke off...
MCS
01-24-2003, 02:45 PM
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Giant scale P-40 choice
Branded:
Which muffler did you use ? Is it the side mount or inverted pitts that RC Showcase sells ? It looks like we will be going with the side mount muffler.
Can you post a picture or two of your engine installation with your cowl removed ?
Also, is that a cotter pin on the outside edge of your muffler ? Coulnd't you have any of the muffler mounting face milled off in order to bring the outside wall inside the cowl ?
Which muffler did you use ? Is it the side mount or inverted pitts that RC Showcase sells ? It looks like we will be going with the side mount muffler.
Can you post a picture or two of your engine installation with your cowl removed ?
Also, is that a cotter pin on the outside edge of your muffler ? Coulnd't you have any of the muffler mounting face milled off in order to bring the outside wall inside the cowl ?
