t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

here here, add me to the list
with proper setup, air up/down work great.

pre-flight, pre-flight, pre-flight

Lancair888

Your right about that, but alot of modelers (and I'm guilty to at times) do not always preflight thoroghly and maintain there equipment in top shape.
The vast majority of modelers have torn up plane bottoms from useing this lousey design.

Do you guys really think your retracts going up scale is more important then the protection of your planes, really?
Yes I know folks use them with no issues, just like there are guys flying for years and years with no crashes, but thats just not the norm.

Next model you build, give it some thought, is it really worth the risk and uncertainty of that perty new plane?

I am sorry I refered to some folks as dumb, but I'm passionet about things sometimes, and it makes me want to cry everytime I see my oldman have to belly land that 150+ size Mustang, she was so beautiful 1 season ago........and my father is a good flyer of over a decade, hes no master, but hes good.

I will never risk any of my planes on air retract failures,
Spring down, air up, for life.
[8D]

Chad Veich

My Feedback: (60)

Um, yes. Not because I don't care but simply because I find it to be an acceptable risk. Properly set up and maintained, standard air retracts are very reliable. Plus, there are many, many aircraft out there for which a suitable Spring Air retract simply is not available. My .02 cents of course.

TXAG96

My Feedback: (1)

Spring air retracts with Shindin or other struts are probably a good, fairly economical, strong and reliable way to go. I have a set of this combo in my Brian Taylor FW190 and they seem to work great. You can slow the up and down some by putting a restrictor in the line from the retract valve to the actuators. Since the valve releases the air pressure at the actuators when you command them down this helps slows the gear down. The down stroke is faster than up but is a lot less violent than when not restricted.

The Shindin struts I have fit directly into the retracts 3/8" hole so there are no set screws holding the strut to a smaller strut wire.

I like the failsafe feature of the spring airs and the simplicity of only one air line to each retract. Less things to go wrong is always nice. Just my opinion.

paladin

My Feedback: (9)

Trumpeteb, If this is your first set of retracts use cold rolled struts. The first time you have to remove them from the plane to bend them back you saved your self $70 and a month with the plane in the shop. If you can go an entire summer, say 60 flights 10hr of air time without having to remove them and bend them back you are ready for oleo’s. RoBo struts and CJ will make something that will fit right in your cold rolled strut hole when you are ready for it.

If you want to talk about pre-flight let us know. I’m sure we have a number of people here with good ideas on how this could be done.

Joe

tevans55

Lancair888-
99.9% reliable and 50/50 with ridiculous maintenance? If you have some thorough research that has been performed on the performance of landing gear systems this would be a great place to share it with the rest of us. If you are making these statements from your experience you need to go to the nearest flying field and chart the actual success and failure of gear systems for a while. Your statements sound alot like the unsupported ramblings of many of our contemporary polititians...and I see you do live in the Washington, DC metro area. Please try to support your arguments with numbers based in reality in the future. I have never had a pnuematic gear failure but have had several mechanical retract failures. I'm not at this point ready to resort to name calling in support of pnuematic gear systems. I believe there may be some validity in your statements on the value of a system that works automatically in the event of some type of failure...it's just not supported well by your argument.

Mustang51

My Feedback: (25)

Modeling for 23 + years. Mostly WWII fighters. Have used Electric(never again), mechanical(never again), and pneumatic(with never a problem) except for the occasional air leak that has always been quickly located...ON THE GROUND.
Lancair888, and others... The only wheels up landings I experienced was due to electric retracts overdriving and failing. You talk of safety and maintainance? The only thing that I have ever seen cause a pneumatic retract to fail was poor installation where the airlines were kinked at the niple(even at the valve) causing them to wear and leak. Over time, those airlines stretch at the nipple. Once a year, usually before flying season starts, I just remover the airline, nip off about an 8th of an inch of airline and replace it. If possible, I'll wire tie(with mechanics wire) it around the nipple as well. Even with that, you sometimes get a leak at the nipple or "T". JUST PAY ATTENTION, every now and then put an ear to the area of the pneumatics and listen.
It's called preventative maintanaince and if your going to fly rc airplanes, you should be doing it and not waiting for something to go wrong.

Any one with comon sense should do a gear check every once in a while, especially before a maiden. That means retract the gear for time equal to your flight time to see that the system holds. Your dad (lancair888) probably didn't do it.
The "vast majority of modelers have torn up plane bottoms because of this lousy design" as you put it? Maybe you and the dumb modelers you know, not me or anyone I've ever known. I go to a lot of war bird meets as well as other gatherings. It's rare, but it does happen(given the vast number of pneumatic retracts out there) that there is a problem with pneumatic gear causing a torn up belly. I see more guys chew up their airplanes because their wheels fall off...Another building\maintaniance issue. And since your the obvious authority here on retracts. Maybe you can tell us all where to get mechanical retracts for giant scale airplanes that will lift a HEAVY wheel at the end of a 9-10" strut.

"Yes I know folks use them with no issues, just like there are guys flying for years and years with no crashes, but thats just not the norm."
You're WRONG. It IS the norm. MOST COMPITENT rc modelers do routine AND preventative maintanaince.


Bottom line... Learn to build and maintain properly. You keep everyone, and every thing safe.

-m51

Lancair888

In response to the last few posts, the people who fly pneumatics with never an issue are far and few between.
I have 30years in RC , I grew up with A father whose best friend created and runs the largest hobbyshop for 100miles in any driection I've been to numerous flying fields aswell.
Being a RC groupie so to speak and LHS rat, I've seen first hand contradicting evidence to your claims, you all are not the norm, your the exception, like the guy that flies for 20years and never has a crash.

I don't have raw data nor does any such thing exist, if you never had a problem congrats your a very lucky person, most peoples pneumatics fail, and fairly often based on my 30years deep into all aspects of RC in the metro washington area.

Good luck on your next flight, I won't ever need luck because my wheels can't fail.

If you want your model to stay nice, and not have to repair the bottom often, use air up, spring down, or mechanical, pneumatic is unreliable.

tevans55

Without data your ramblings on what works best is just an opinion. Saying your wheels can't Fail because you use air up mechanical down puts you in a realm most of us are not equipped to deal with. Sorry.

Lancair888

lol I never said they would not "Fall off"
I have never seen anyone have a wheel "fall off" and I'd say thats pretty bad to have happen and silly to allow to happen do to any number of reasons from bad design yo bad maintenance.

There is no such data in existence, and I dam sure am not going to waste my flying time chasing people down for stories, skip flying ect.
Data is not needed, not based on what I have seen over 30 years in RC, the OP wanted to know about value, thats what I was driving at, the "best value in retracts" are ones that can not fail because they are designed correctly, and do not rely on a tiny delicate little air hose system that is frankly laughable, no real plane would even consider it why are modelers using it?

Heck I'd rather have a tiny hydraulic system over this little air hose junk, but I don't know of any yet. Trusting your model to "air" is "airheaded"

I am very glad KMP use's spring air retracts, as long as they are built well and correct and with quality in mind they should outperform all pneumatics and never leave you belly up, so to speak.
I got carried away in the begining and I am, and have said I am sorry, several times. I'm a passionet individual who is not rich and does not take chances on his models, especialy big beautiful expensive ones like these warbirds.

To the OP in terms of reliablity it goes as follows.

1st Mechanical *Not scale operation*
On servo failure, you could lose the plane without a bec installed to prevent overload of the servo system. Drastic mechanical failure always possible.

2nd Spring air (air up, spring down) *Semi scale opperation*
Minus drastic mechanical failure, this design will always give you wheels to land on.

3rd Pneumatic (air up, air down) *Totally scale opperation*
Any failure of this system leaves you in some form or another wheeless, unless they fail to retract on takeoff, meaning you have wheels stuck down.

All require quality parts, and preventative maintenance.

Again, to me, the protection of my investment is more important then anything else, followed by my wants, scale, speed ect.
People don't agree thats fine good luck to you, my advice is sound, as are my descriptions of said designs

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

I've used Rhom air, Robarts, Yellow and other Pneumatics. I really haven't had issues with any of them. But I'm new to this sport.. started around 1968.

Mustang51

My Feedback: (25)

Newbies!...

Hey Bob, hows it going? Ya hittn WOD this year?

-Dave

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

freekin Newbie (good one dave)

yea, I think Bob still has his first wheel he chiseld out of granite[8D]
who love's ya Bob!

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

Laffing !!! You guys!
Dave ya I'll be at WOD bro.. wouldn't miss it for the world!

Toddy.. You know how cheap I am.. and it wasn't Granite it was Slate! LOL

trumpteb

Again, thanks to all that are on this thread...my reply to any and all will be much delayed...family issues but please continue...the accumulation of information is awsome.
trumbpet

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

Call me stupid too....[&o].....only 22 years (1985). Give me nothing but pneumatic! And Dave (Mustang51) hit it right on the head.
Jeff

fliir

Lancair:

Great Start into RCU. Five days since registration and already all air retract suppliers (and by extension, all air retract users) are idiots.

Lancair888

Basicaly.
Using a clearly flawed system makes you flawed, and/or foolish.
The OP wanted to know about value, I gave him the truth instead of blowing smoke like others, pneumatics suck and are not for the mass's.
Thanks for contributing nothing, move along.

Mustang51

My Feedback: (25)

Guys... I think this guy(lancair888) is one of those people that goes from internet site to internet site making posts just to cause trouble and get reaction from people that have a genuine interest\concern about the topic that they are engaged in. There is an "internet term" for these loosers, it just escapes me right now. I say, just ignor this pariah and maybe he'll slither on.

-M51

Lancair888

I was posting to help the OP.
It has nothing to do with "stirring up trouble".
I believe these products (pneumatic retracts) are garbage based on 1st hand 30yrs experience in all aspects of RC.
I have a vested interest in this topic as I want more Spring Air retracts available for all models, so pneumatics die, and go to hell where they belong.
The only "loosers" here are those foolish enough to trust there expensive, beloved models to a garbage, failed, insecure design.
"Pariah" lmao, well you used up your $3 word for this week already.
Ignoreing facts only highlights your ignorance.

Only cowards and snakes "slither".
I defend my stance, and it has yet to be proven incorrect. I did not "run away".
Snakes are beloved members of the reptile community, they do not like to be insulted.

Now unless you can prove that pneumatics don't fail, and will always bring your wheels down when you need them, kindly stfu and move along sir.

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

I think someone needs to learn Internet manners and ediquite here

I also think you may have some sort of vested interest in SA as well.
could be wrong

Evil_Merlin

My Feedback: (13)

I've been using pneumatic retracts for almost 20 years now, out of just shy of 30 years in the hobby. Never had an issue, because I know how to pre-flight and check my planes before taking off. I have had over 20 aircraft over those years, up to 1/4 scale stuff, and again, no issues.

SpringAir's are fine, I have them in a lot of my smaller planes, but see, some of us strive for accuracy when it comes to scale, and thats something SA can't do.

stuk_at_work

My Feedback: (111)

Everyone. Please respond, not react. If your point has been made, there is no reason to repeat it, it doesn't make it any more right (or wrong)!

Consider this a warning to all.

Lancair888

This is not a childs forum, nor are any of us children, do not touch my posts again.

You removal of my post is a violation.
My post did not violate any of your rules, maybe you should edit some of these oldmen in here that said simular stuff to me, singling out a new person is discrimination, want your site IP suspended?
Nobody was cussing, and untill people started using personal attacks, it was all general speaking.

Tread carefully little moderator.

Evil_Merlin

My Feedback: (13)

Well its nice to know Lancair will no longer be around.

I'd love to see you try to get the "site IP suspended" as well. You don't know much about retracts or the way the internet works do ya?