TomTreese

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I just received my Lanier F-4 Phantom. It's a nostalgia trip, having flown in this plane in the 60's.
I am going to finish it like my squadron colors from then. The "Fighting Diamondbacks". So I will be recovering some areas.

I also considered the Vmar Phantom but I have seen 9 Vmar warbirds flights and the retracts have failed on 7 of those flights, so I decided I would get my nostalgia fix from the smaller bird.

Can anyone give me some building and flying tips????

I plan to fly it with an OS 50SX and I understand from some old threads on this plane it tends to be nose heavy???

I plan to add some wood to the inside of the tail (in side the fake tailhook) to allow weight to be added without screwing it to the fiberglass only.

I ,also, will fill the frontend of two exhaust ports with a plywood disk to provide better adhesion and a place to add weight.

I welcome your advise!!!!

etchase

This plane looks great, but its flight could use a lot of improvement. It has a flat bottom wing, and anything inverted requires a lot of down. The fuel tank is 10" or so infront of the CG, and the plane is dramatically nose heavy on a full tank. I put in a ST .46 with a pitts, and a 1500 mAH battery behind the wing and still put 12 ounces of epoxy and lead shot in the tail cone to get it to balance. Pouring it into the exhaust ports would save some weight. My nose gear snapped off on the drive to the field, but it works fine now that I replaced it with K&S wire. Looks nice though.

georged

I(AF Vet) have been flying my F-4 for 3 years with a OS 40FP. Flys fine performing basic warbird manuevers and would take off from grass field in 50 to 60 feet. I made a battery box and mounted it as far back in the fuselage bottom, reworked the servo try and mounted servos at the back, same for receiver. Did not have to add any other weight came in at 5lbs 5ozs. Reworking for this season; installing B&D air retracts, OS46AX this will add about 8ozs. My brother(Navy vet) was impressed with mine and is now completing one with same mode. We look forward to doing formation flying and manuevers. You should be happy with yous. Good luck.

TomTreese

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Thanks for the suggestions...

It may be prudent to add some lead in that tailhook slot in the fuse before gluing on the horizontal stab??? I am going to rig the exhaust ports to be able to add some weight by putting a wooden disks in the inboard end and some wood inside the fuse where it will attach with screws. I can also add some weight at the end of the tailhook so it looks like the shoe.

Is this plane tough to see in the air??? The bottom is gray, the one's we flew had white bottoms,.
I am putting some red diamonds on the top and sides of the fuse like our planes were decorated. I'm thinking that a couple of red diamonda on the underside of the wings may aide with visability??

I chose this plane over the V-mar ,as I stated before, just for the rush of seeing an old freind fly was worth the $180.00. I already have the OS 50 and the radio gear.

Mustang Fever

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Tom:

Good luck with your Phantom. I worked on C's and D's for 15 years with the 191st FIG out of Selfridge Air Guard Base, Michigan. Like you, I just had to have one.

After five years in RC, I've started building from Pavel Bosak's prop in the nose F-4 plans. I started new year's day. It's like all the pitn F-4s- way nose heavy. I have three full size servos behind the exhaust (for rudder and elevators), the receiver right against the tail cone, a 3400 mAh battery in front of that, and about sixteen 45 and 40 cal bullets epoxied in above the stabs to balance it. I'm using a Cline fuel system so that I can put a 12oz tank right on the CG, and a 2 oz up behind the engine. Robart 510 series spring down retracts and a Tower .75 engine.

You mentioned the visibility issue- I'm hear to tell you it will be a MAJOR concern. For that reason, I'm going with the QF-4N scheme, like the ones the guys built at Cherry Point NAS. The tip panels and the tail are orange. I use Coverite neon red for that, which is about the brightest orange there is.

TomTreese

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Your Phantom looks great. I don't see a prop on the painted one?? Oh! it's just a model!!! I checked out the other thread and you did a great building job.

I don't think the Lanier is quite as nose heavy but I am adding weight berfoe I put the tail feathers on. I'll put any additional weight in side the exhausts and my tailhook shoe.

We flew the F4-H. The early model that was the first in the fleet in 1961.

I'll add some pictures after I finish the skin next weekend.

Mustang Fever

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Thanks, Tom

It's pretty easy to do the "Oz-inch" of torque calcuation. Weigh each major item going into the plane, and multiply it's weight in oz by it's distance from the CG. If the total oz-in of torque for items ahead of and behind the CG is roughly equal, you'll be in the ball park, and moving the battery about should get you the final balance. I'll bet you can put lead in the upper part of the tail, above the stabs. Lanier's pics show some room up there. The heavy tail hook is a great idea, one that I intend to use if I need it.

Check the main gear mounting before you fly, even if it means pulling up some of the covering. I had a Shrike ARF, and it looked like the blocks were put in with hot glue.

I only wish we had got E models before they switched us over to 16s. I was a gun plumber, and all we had to work with on the D's was the old SUU 23A pod. What a nightmare.
I lost track of how many came back and when you opened the door, pieces fell out on the ramp. We had one run away and shoot the flash suppressor off, and the crew could hear the barrels bouncing off the bottom of the A/C until it went through all the ammo. Sure enough, lots of scratches and dents in the skin afterwards. The gun system on the 16 was a sweetheart, but you didn't dare pull it for maintenance unless the forward fuel tank was full, or the bird would go back on it's butt.

TomTreese

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The wood blocks for the gear look stronger then the Shrike 40 , which I also have replace both after they split on landings.

Our Phantom's didn't have any guns???? That's when the idiots in DC figured that with all the new guided missal tech. There wouldn't be any dog-fights any more????

A bad day flying today>>> I totaled my PT-17 Stearman. I was on the down wind leg about to turn left 90* for my approach when all of a sudden she turned hard right and went inverted????[:@] Tried to pull her out and roll over but didn't have enough speed for the big bird and she went in. 102nd flight..[&o]

Well if you are afraid to crash them don't fly!!![>:]

Mustang Fever

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Yeah, that whole business of "we don't need guns, we have missiles" is pretty well documented. Then we got to Nam, and guess what, rules of engagement required a visual ID. Then all of a sudden we needed guns. Sheesh. It wasn't until the E model that the Air Force had a nose gun.

Sorry to hear about your Stearman. Do you think it was an airspeed problem or something to do with the radio? I've had a number of approach crashes caused by a "downwind" leg that was really a bit of a crosswind, and when I turned base, I was actually turning more downwind and didn't have sufficient ground speed to make up for it. Our field is famous for that- the wind usually blows out of the south west or north west, and the runway is N-S.

TomTreese

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I think it was radio glitch. The wind wasn't strong enough or from the right direstion to make the p;ane turn the way it did. It happened in an area of our field we call "The Bermuda Traingle" There have been a lot of similar accidents in that area. There is a cement contractor beside our field and we think sometimes one of the truck's has a radio that bleeds over to the 72mhz???? It never happen on the weekend???[:@]

Mustang Fever

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Yeah, those guys tend to use a lot of high band 100w radios. Too close to the antenna when they key up, and down you go.

JoeMamma

Hi Tom,

Here's my Lanier F4. Put it together about 5 years ago. Powered by a Dubb Jett .50.

The hardest part of the construction was adding the Robart retracts. Because of the narrow nose and the added nose retract, I had to use a very small fuel tank (6 ounce if I remember). This limits my flights to about 5 minutes.

For being extremly overweight, it's still a breeze to fly/land. Also very fast with the Jett.

Search RCU for the Lanier Phantom. There was a lot of activity about it 4-5 years ago.

JoeMamma

TomTreese

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Bob
I lost another plane today???[:@] My Dave Patrick Ultimate.40. Same Transmitter in the same area of the field?? I was doing some extreme snap rolls like I have done for the 146 flights on the A/C. When all of a sudden I had no control???[]
I then flew another plane on my other Tx on the same channel with no problem??? That took some guts. I didn't want to lose 3 in 3 flights. I really think it's the tx. So it's history. Even if I sent it back to be checked I would never trust another plane to it. It has cost me $1400.00 worth of plane in two days.[]

I ordered a Dave Patrick 120 Ultimate today. Need to replenish the fleet.

I installed the OS 50 on my Phantom today. It is going to be real nose heavy. I think a couple oz. of lead in the tail before I put the tail on may help??

Tom

JoeMamma

Tom,

Try using a heavier 5-cell 6-volt battery and bury it in the tail. This helped me, but from what I remember, it still took a lot of extra lead in the tail. Adding all of that reinforcement for the nose retract made mine even more nose heavy.

JoeMamma

TomTreese

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Do you remember how much weight you had to add???

JoeMamma

Tom,

Your taxing my 60 year old memory ! It was a lot..........maybe a pound. Again, this was due to the retract installation. It's still a great flyer ! You will love it !

TomTreese

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So, evenwithout the retracts 3 or 4 ounces probably wouldn't hurt. I think what I'm going to do is epoxy a block of hard wood in the tail section that's the inside of the tailhook, I'll add some lead there and then I can access that area and screw more on later.
THanks for the help!!

JoeMamma

Tom,

On another note, did you happen to catch the F4 "Dogfights" episode on the History Channel ? Excellent pilot/crew interviews and footage !

"Dogfights" has turned out to be my favorite TV show.

TomTreese

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Yes I have seen it a couple of times and I think I taped it one time>> I hope I didn't overwrite it??
Every Friday night at 9 the have had a dogfight or vintage fighter special on the History channel

Mustang Fever

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Tom:

Why is it bad luck always comes in streaks?

Joe:

Have you thought about getting a Cline regulator so you could put a larger tank right on the CG in your Phantom? I bought my first Cline recently. Haven't flown it yet, but I'll let you guys know how it works out. I decided to put it in my Ugly Stick for a test. If it works like they say, I'll buy another one for my F-4.

Kmot

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Does anyone know, of anyone who has had a Lanier F4, and has trimmed the elevators down in size a bit? I was wondering if it would make it unflyable if the elevators were a little closer to scale looking size.

TomTreese

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If you want scale! As I remember, the entire horizontal stabelizers were the elevators. But that was 45 years ago???[>:]

Wasn't that the case Bob????

I still can't get an approximate amount of lead to add to the tail before I close it up. Would 4 oz be too much??? I've built in about 1 1/2 oz in a wood block in the hollow tail hook area and ran some wood 1/2'" wide up the spine and can screw up to 3 oz's on that???
I'm trying to call Lanier but it's been busy for a hour?

TomTreese

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I finally got through to Lanier and they said that what they have heard is about 6 oz. depending what you do with the servos and battery. So I'm going to put about 4 oz. back there and I can add any needed weight in the exhaust ports.

The skin color is like gray Ultracote???

Mustang Fever

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Yeah, every fighter jet (that I know of, anyway) since the F-84 (starting with the 86) has had a "flying" stab- the whole thing pivots. This so that elevator effectiveness can be maintained when the shock wave begins to move aft as airspeed approaches Mach 1.

It's not something you want to do on a model unless you have a really strong servo with a LOT of travel. Ordinary elevators work well because they alter the camber of the whole surface, thus don't have to move very far. A flying stab has a constant camber, and so must move great distances to achieve the same effect. (I remember this from my Cherokee 140 days. It had a flying stab, and boy, at touchdown you had to have the wheel in your guts to get it to flare.) If you ever watch an F-16 land, they are super nose high at touchdown, but that flying stab is beyond parallel to the ground- the leading edge is lower than the trailing edge. Just the perfect angle to slice the unwary deer in half, chest to butt. We found two halves out on the runway one day- the top with the head and tail, and the bottom with all four legs. Little wrinkle on the LE and blood everywhere. Bloody four legged rats.

Tom: Try the oz inch of torque calculations. Measure from the CG to the center of each mass, and weigh each mass. Multipy the weights times the distances from the CG and you'll have oz-inch of torque. Do one column for stuff in front of, and one for stuff behind the CG. The difference you get between the front stuff and the back stuff is the approx. amount of lead you'll need. Don't forget to include the battery in your calculations. And- if you can avoid it, don't put weight in the exhaust. It's too far forward. You want weight as far back in the tail as you can get it for maximum effect.

TomTreese

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I put 4 oz in the tail. Boy that nose wheel strut looks awful weak??? 3.5 mm while the maine struts are 4 mm+. It is also too long by at least 2". No matter I'll replace it with a 4mm gear.

When I installed it and sat the plane on the table it had a great carrier landing angle of attack aspect. The nose was at least 1 1/2" too high. One landing would take that off. It should be shortened but it's too weak.

It was also short 3 collars plus some screws so far. Not a very good ARF. And the directions were a poor photocopy with pictures too dark to see. Fortuniately you can download a set from their website. If this was your first ARF you would be in big dodo.

Iv'e hade to modify almost every step. I hope it flys???